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Feedback on 1.6: problem with new Ultimate generation (@ZOS)
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Spangla✭✭✭✭This cannot happen - I dont care what you tree huggin hat wearers think - this change sucks!:)4 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »...
Flaw:
1. PvP: Sieging in PvP will no longer occur. Why? Because using Siege is not a light or heavy attack, and therefore will not generate any Ultimate. Players will "let the other guys siege, I will stand near the wall and fire off light/heavy attacks to build Ultimate so that when the wall falls, I can rush in (or defend the breach) with my Ultimate ready."
2. PvE: Tanks or other agro-generating players can no longer effectively serve in their role if they have to weave in attacks that involve dropping Block. It will lead to more wipes and high-end content becoming harder for all but the really elite players to complete.
....
Both your flaws are in themselves flawed:
1. You assume wrongly people only siege in PvP to generate ultimate.
2. You assume wrongly that at tank must be blocking nearly 100% of the time to be effective.
You may only siege for ultimate generation, and you may have to keep block up 100% of the time to be an effective tank, but that doesn't make it true for the player base as a whole.
The ultimate changes coming are all about balance, only selfish people do not, or are not willing to, understand this.
Edited by Rev Rielle on January 17, 2015 10:30AMIf you can be anything, be kind.0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No matter how many times you drop VoB on The Mage in AA it doesn't reduce damage taken by players any more and only barely increases DPS. No matter how many SoM you drop, it doesn't drastically increase the DPS in that last ~15 seconds or so to make so much of a difference that you couldn't kill her without overlapping either.1 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭
Are you trying to tell me that Nova and VoB doesn't make a difference on the Mage..cause I'll disagree with that totally.
No matter how many times you drop VoB on The Mage in AA it doesn't reduce damage taken by players any more and only barely increases DPS. No matter how many SoM you drop, it doesn't drastically increase the DPS in that last ~15 seconds or so to make so much of a difference that you couldn't kill her without overlapping either.0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Although....if your trying to play semantics.....you can run a12 dk run....but you need Corrosive....which is basically a Nova in DK form.0
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope I'm saying that NOT being able to overlap SoM/VoB won't mean that players can no longer complete Trials. It is possible however that with 1.6 we will see speed clears of AA/HR taking an extra NB/Sorc or 2 to make sure they have VoB/Negate when needed.
Are you trying to tell me that Nova and VoB doesn't make a difference on the Mage..cause I'll disagree with that totally.
No matter how many times you drop VoB on The Mage in AA it doesn't reduce damage taken by players any more and only barely increases DPS. No matter how many SoM you drop, it doesn't drastically increase the DPS in that last ~15 seconds or so to make so much of a difference that you couldn't kill her without overlapping either.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So the fights will be re-tuned to reflect the changes in Ultimate gain.
Literally a non-issue.5 -
Fi'yra✭✭✭Ultimates are already spammed in PvP, they ruin the game pretty much in my opinion.
Once ultimates are down, I think personally that trains are going to be useless.
They won't have barrier to keep themselves alive, no more negate/banners to reduce incoming damage.
It'll be harder for the people that lag Cyrodil, and I think that'll be a great fix around the issue.
I PvP and PvE a lot, and I don't see this being an issue at all, they're not going to change it just because how you like to play, please.
We all pay subs too, and the majority have said it's not an issue, lets at least test it out first, and if no one agrees, they'll be forced to switch back regardless how they feel.
Zenimax are taking a big risk implementing this, so why don't we just support the people who are risking something to make the game we pay for to be better?
Instead of complaining, just play the game and have fun, stop worrying about such things please.4 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Ultimates are already spammed in PvP, they ruin the game pretty much in my opinion.
Once ultimates are down, I think personally that trains are going to be useless.
They won't have barrier to keep themselves alive, no more negate/banners to reduce incoming damage.
It'll be harder for the people that lag Cyrodil, and I think that'll be a great fix around the issue.
I PvP and PvE a lot, and I don't see this being an issue at all, they're not going to change it just because how you like to play, please.
We all pay subs too, and the majority have said it's not an issue, lets at least test it out first, and if no one agrees, they'll be forced to switch back regardless how they feel.
Zenimax are taking a big risk implementing this, so why don't we just support the people who are risking something to make the game we pay for to be better?
Instead of complaining, just play the game and have fun, stop worrying about such things please.
so im not the only one who thinks casual pvp whining is going to ruin things on the pve side....so its not just me who thinks its stupid.0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Ultimates are already spammed in PvP, they ruin the game pretty much in my opinion.
Once ultimates are down, I think personally that trains are going to be useless.
They won't have barrier to keep themselves alive, no more negate/banners to reduce incoming damage.
It'll be harder for the people that lag Cyrodil, and I think that'll be a great fix around the issue.
I PvP and PvE a lot, and I don't see this being an issue at all, they're not going to change it just because how you like to play, please.
We all pay subs too, and the majority have said it's not an issue, lets at least test it out first, and if no one agrees, they'll be forced to switch back regardless how they feel.
Zenimax are taking a big risk implementing this, so why don't we just support the people who are risking something to make the game we pay for to be better?
Instead of complaining, just play the game and have fun, stop worrying about such things please.
also i read this " PVP PROBLEM PVP PROBLEM PVP PROBLEM"2 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ultimates are already spammed in PvP, they ruin the game pretty much in my opinion.
Once ultimates are down, I think personally that trains are going to be useless.
They won't have barrier to keep themselves alive, no more negate/banners to reduce incoming damage.
It'll be harder for the people that lag Cyrodil, and I think that'll be a great fix around the issue.
I PvP and PvE a lot, and I don't see this being an issue at all, they're not going to change it just because how you like to play, please.
We all pay subs too, and the majority have said it's not an issue, lets at least test it out first, and if no one agrees, they'll be forced to switch back regardless how they feel.
Zenimax are taking a big risk implementing this, so why don't we just support the people who are risking something to make the game we pay for to be better?
Instead of complaining, just play the game and have fun, stop worrying about such things please.
Sir, your voice of reason is not allowed on this topic. Please move on to the next topic and let the nut jobs continue spamming this thread.
Thank You.2 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am still disappointed that so many people are making posts opposing something that isn't even presented in this thread.
But I do appreciate the bumps.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"I want to continue block-casting and not be bothered w/ having to cancel a light attack once every 8 seconds."
At least try to be a bit more subtle in your agenda next time.
The ultimate change will not change a f***ing thing about block casting. It literally takes 0.05 seconds do drop block animationcancel a light attack and block again.
Dream on that this will have ANY effect on people block casting like mad. You´re going to have a bad time once 1.6 hits live.
Edit:
I agree with the part on siege weapons the op mentions. They should also give the ultimate generation buff when hitting enemy players.
Edit2:
I´m not pro block casting and actually looking forward to changes in the blocking mechanic. I think that will have to go along with dmg alterations aswell - else cyrodiil will become an instagib fest.Edited by Derra on January 17, 2015 5:08PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭"I want to continue block-casting and not be bothered w/ having to cancel a light attack once every 8 seconds."
At least try to be a bit more subtle in your agenda next time.
The ultimate change will not change a f***ing thing about block casting. It literally takes 0.05 seconds do drop block animationcancel a light attack and block again.
Dream on that this will have ANY effect on people block casting like mad. You´re going to have a bad time once 1.6 hits live.
Edit:
I agree with the part on siege weapons the op mentions. They should also give the ultimate generation buff when hitting enemy players.
Edit2:
I´m not pro block casting and actually looking forward to changes in the blocking mechanic. I think that will have to go along with dmg alterations aswell - else cyrodiil will become an instagib fest.
If you continue to read the thread, you'll realize that I don't think it will have any real effect on block casting at all, but the OP and person I was replying to does.
He was stating repeatedly that tanks would no longer be able to do their job due to having to drop their block for a split second once every 8 seconds, that is if they are simply holding block and spamming attacks right now on live.
I appreciate your passion on the topic, but it seems to be a bit misdirected. : P0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edit2:
I´m not pro block casting and actually looking forward to changes in the blocking mechanic. I think that will have to go along with dmg alterations aswell - else cyrodiil will become an instagib fest.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Blocking is getting changed in update 6 but not for the better. In 6 you be able to block magical AoEs and most skills now. (Still can't block fear) So basicly most to all skills do half damage now and you'll still be able to block cast cause ZoS still doesn't see any problems with it.0 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK, I have been pretty nice so far as the thread has gone off course to being about "block casting" and how "bads" aren't good at it so want to punish everyone who can do it.
But that's not what the thread is about. If you want to talk about that, make your own thread.
This thread is about the flaw in the design of the new Ultimate Gain system in 1.6. So, let me spell it out for you one more time.
PvE
- Anyone who CAN animation-cancel will be able to keep the Ultimate Buff on consistently, and get the most Ultimate Gain from the buff being restricted to only Light/Heavy attacks. Anyone who CANNOT or WILL NOT animation-cancel will gain ultimate more slowly.
- Even being able to animation-cancel is hard for some players. Its basically a form of elitism which only exists because of ZoS' implementation of this new buff mechanic (light/heavy attacks only).
- Conversely, if ZoS corrects this flaw and uses my suggestion, then everyone will be able to gain the Ultimate Buff more consistently, both players who DO and who DON'T animation-cancel.
PvP
- Sieging is supposed to be PART of PvP (AvA to be more precise). Sieging puts you into combat. Ultimate Gain is supposed to be part of Combat. Its a way for you to gain access to a (shockingly) "ultimate" power you can use every so often. What possible reason can there be for sieging in PvP to NOT contribute to that gain?
Ultimate gain is supposed to happen naturally as a part of combat. ZoS does not want you to gain ultimate out of combat anymore (Healing Springs spam), nor do they want abilities and combos which can make it build ultra-fast. The idea of this "buff" achieves that goal, generally. The only difference between ZoS implementation (Light/Heavy only) and mine (any damaging attack) is that my idea is BETTER - it makes the game less "elite" and doesn't hamstring normal PvP activity (sieging). That is literally the only difference.Edited by onlinegamer1 on January 18, 2015 4:44PM2 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭feedback on 1.6? its live on pts for testing?
Edited by Naivefanboi on January 18, 2015 4:49PM2 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »OK, I have been pretty nice so far as the thread has gone off course to being about "block casting" and how "bads" aren't good at it so want to punish everyone who can do it.
But that's not what the thread is about. If you want to talk about that, make your own thread.
This thread is about the flaw in the design of the new Ultimate Gain system in 1.6. So, let me spell it out for you one more time.
PvE
- Anyone who CAN animation-cancel will be able to keep the Ultimate Buff on consistently, and get the most Ultimate Gain from the buff being restricted to only Light/Heavy attacks. Anyone who CANNOT or WILL NOT animation-cancel will gain ultimate more slowly.
- Even being able to animation-cancel is hard for some players. Its basically a form of elitism which only exists because of ZoS' implementation of this new buff mechanic (light/heavy attacks only).
- Conversely, if ZoS corrects this flaw and uses my suggestion, then everyone will be able to gain the Ultimate Buff more consistently, both players who DO and who DON'T animation-cancel.
PvP
- Sieging is supposed to be PART of PvP (AvA to be more precise). Sieging puts you into combat. Ultimate Gain is supposed to be part of Combat. Its a way for you to gain access to a (shockingly) "ultimate" power you can use every so often. What possible reason can there be for sieging in PvP to NOT contribute to that gain?
Ultimate gain is supposed to happen naturally as a part of combat. ZoS does not want you to gain ultimate out of combat anymore (Healing Springs spam), nor do they want abilities and combos which can make it build ultra-fast. The idea of this "buff" achieves that goal, generally. The only difference between ZoS implementation (Light/Heavy only) and mine (any damaging attack) is that my idea is BETTER - it makes the game less "elite" and doesn't hamstring normal PvP activity (sieging). That is literally the only difference.
It is not restricted to light/heavy attacks skills morphs will still produce ultimate. They are simply trying to make it less confusing for everyone as to what non skill action produces ultimates.
So you are saying this update is creating block-casting? Have you been playing the game or at least been paying attention to the forums? Block-casting is a common occurrence particularly noticeable in AvA. Not everyone can do it as well as others so what doesn't mean to remove something because a percentage finds it difficult.
I am still curious what software you have developed? I would prefer a game design but any software will do. It just amazes me that there is a group of experienced people from around the industry but you are just so much smarter then everyone that they must follow what you suggest.
PvP
I have never been placed into combat by using a siege weapon. It is a part of AvA but it is designed as a method to slow or break a siege or to damage a keep enough to allow you to enter it. Ultimate is designed to be produced during direct combat not a relatively safe high damage AE method.
I disagree that your idea is better.
No unfortunately it is not he is just speaking of what has been released which is microscopic to what it is coming.jjf42001_ESO wrote: »feedback on 1.6? its live on pts for testing?
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Spangla✭✭✭✭*Light attack, lean back in chair, yawn, look around - Earn same ultimate as someone in the thick of a fight......
This is the kind of logic that makes people run into bat swarms and complain about it on forums and get a perfectly good system changed for a worse one.
How does any of that make people want to run into batswarms.....
It's quite a simple really
The first point highlights a lack of logic in the system, the second also has no logic..... um? Not sure what else to say really.....
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »I just want to reiterate my appreciation for the thread bumps you guys are posting.
It's cool, ZOS will just see pages of this thread and only 1 person (you) having this opinion, while everybody else disagrees. : P
Actually no one has disagreed so far.
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VileIntent✭✭✭✭Seems to me this helps fight the block casting issue.
I seriously have to agree I like the new change!
If a tank in pve cannot get 1 attack off in 8 seconds, maybe he shouldn't tank.
Try thinking outside the box. If you heal someone with the buff you get the buff. Maybe the tank can use an aoe heal or rapid regen to get his buff.
Seriously wait till we get to play with it before QQing.Edited by VileIntent on January 19, 2015 9:14AM1 -
ReverendSoul ShrivenAnd now that we have had a chance to read the 1.6 patch notes and play on the test server what do you think of ultimate generation of a tank in SO?
IMO if this does not change, play a dps templar!0 -
Nixes✭✭✭I don't see why they cant make blocking heavy attacks and interrupting spells generate Ultimate. It would avoid it being a passive all the time thing, apply to all classes (not just tanks), and would really help tanking out with their ultimate generation. It also promotes everyone playing and engaging in the fights instead of "murder, death, kill, rage because we wiped."
Maybe make a passive for one hand and shield that makes it generate extra ultimate since tanks would still generate less ultimate than non tanks without their light attacks.
I think it's a pretty solid idea at least..1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭And now that we have had a chance to read the 1.6 patch notes and play on the test server what do you think of ultimate generation of a tank in SO?
IMO if this does not change, play a dps templar!
Strangely enough, Ult generation seems to be the one topic that nobody is complaining about in PTS forum so far.
Haven't tested it myself though, not enough room for PTS on my comp. : /0
