Taxation though Donation! (Collecting Taxes for Guild Stores)

Terminus · January 2015

So the purpose of this discussion is to talk about a problem that a lot of guilds are facing regarding paying for their guild stores, as well as some simple solutions to fix it.

Problem: The majority of all guild stores must resort to raffles and other external means to collect the money needed to pay for their guild stores.

What can be done to more easily automate this system?

Solution 1:Customizable Guild Tax
People have been asking for this for a long time. Guild should be able to customize their tax rates up to what they feel is best for their guild. Set limits on the tax; maybe have a minimum of 7%, and a maximum of 25%?

Solution 2: Automated Raffles
Create a system that allows players to opt in to an automated raffle. This will minimize the effort required from guild leaders to keep track of individuals who enter and win contests. This will be extremely helpful to guilds with more than 200 players, who need to track hundreds of donations every week.

Solution 3: Auto Donate Profits
Create a system that allows players to check a box when they place an item on sale within the guild store that deposits all of the profit from a sale directly into the guild bank, rather than through the mail to a player. This would allow players to put equipment on sale from the guild banks on behalf of their guild.

EDIT: Minor syntax and phrasing

Kalman · January 2015

Here is a dancing monkey:

CMz · January 2015

Thank you for raising this - i would strongly favor #1

Observant · January 2015

A customizable guild tax would work wonders, and I'm amazed that no one has made a guild raffle add-on (maybe I missed it?)

It would also make it more competitive for guild stores in the current market.

+1 OP

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

Observant · January 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

With lower taxes, guilds would need to promote more sales.
More sales = more competition = lower prices

And yes, kiosks should only be bought with guild store profit.
I'm not giving my money to a trading guild, I'm trying to make it.

ashlee17 · January 2015

Hey there,
Thanks for posting about this topic.

Personally i would love to see the end of the current guild trader bidding system but if we have to have it, some of the options you have presented could certainly help out. Too much time is spent by guild leaders trying to keep guilds afloat. Running raffles, bidding on traders etc.. A streamlined system like the one you have suggested could help with this burden for some.

All i know is something must be done...

With this in mind I ask you to please lend your support to campaigning with me for better guild management tools.

You can check out the thread below.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145742/help-we-need-more-guild-management-tools#latest

Can Zos please let us know if our struggles are known to developers or if any solutions are in the pipeline? Are any of the proposed solutions viable?

Terminus - Please add the contents of your post to the thread

together we can call for the tools we need to build stronger guilds and communities!

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your support!

timidobserver · January 2015

I could live with 2 or 3 because they are optional. 1 would be entirely intolerable.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

ROFL who uses the stores? if i have anything WORTH selling i sell it in zone chat in 5-10 mins max.....zos should just give up on silly concept and remove it completely.
only thing i like about it is seeing guild kiosks here and there, usually click one thinking its a regular merchant for repairs then i see its a guild store and leave before even looking lol

i think i might have sold 5 things total in guild stores. even 500 player trading guilds. one of the best jokes in game atm imo.

Sallington · January 2015

I feel like the ability to join 5 guilds, and the fact that they're account bound, ruins this.

I don't need 3-4 trade guilds all charging me a tax.

timidobserver · January 2015

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

ROFL who uses the stores? if i have anything WORTH selling i sell it in zone chat in 5-10 mins max.....zos should just give up on silly concept and remove it completely.
only thing i like about it is seeing guild kiosks here and there, usually click one thinking its a regular merchant for repairs then i see its a guild store and leave before even looking lol

i think i might have sold 5 things total in guild stores. even 500 player trading guilds. one of the best jokes in game atm imo.

Your one of those people that assume all experiences are the same as your experience right? You fail at making gold on traders, so surely everyone else must fail at it as well.

Fissh · January 2015

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

ROFL who uses the stores? if i have anything WORTH selling i sell it in zone chat in 5-10 mins max.....zos should just give up on silly concept and remove it completely.
only thing i like about it is seeing guild kiosks here and there, usually click one thinking its a regular merchant for repairs then i see its a guild store and leave before even looking lol

i think i might have sold 5 things total in guild stores. even 500 player trading guilds. one of the best jokes in game atm imo.

.....
so have everyone spam in zone? Really?
Some form of stores is a must. And 5 items? Ugh, sry. I sell 10-15 items every other day. And 500? You do know a 500 guild kiosk is public? Meaning it sells to much more than 500....

OrangeTheCat · January 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

Agreed. It's like subsides, tax write offs, easier credit, etc for housing, education etc in the real world ... Only makes prices go higher and higher.

Nestor · January 2015

Sorry, but feeding more money into the system will only result in guild stores rental fees going up, requiring higher bids so that those who do not have Guild Stores will never get a fair chance to bid on anything.

You will end up with the same situation you are in now, only all the prices will be higher. This only makes the system more exclusionary.

You want to be able to afford to have a Guild Kiosk, then lets get ZOS to have more Kiosks. Make Trader Centers that people actually want to go to and they can shop 10 or 20 kiosks. Let us have a default search based on the last search we did at a kiosk. I would imagine that most of us hit the Kiosks looking for specific items most of the time, so this will make each kiosk search for those items go faster.

AlnilamE · January 2015

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

ROFL who uses the stores? if i have anything WORTH selling i sell it in zone chat in 5-10 mins max.....zos should just give up on silly concept and remove it completely.
only thing i like about it is seeing guild kiosks here and there, usually click one thinking its a regular merchant for repairs then i see its a guild store and leave before even looking lol

i think i might have sold 5 things total in guild stores. even 500 player trading guilds. one of the best jokes in game atm imo.

That is your experience.

Meanwhile, I can't remember the last time I bought something in Zone Chat. I'm sure I've done it at least once, though...

I love checking out the guild traders I find while questing, though if I'm looking for something, I tend to start in my own guilds, as they do have a good selection.

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

While that sounds like a good idea on paper, it would entrench the guilds that already have a kiosk and not give other guilds who don't have a vendor a chance at outbidding them.

Bouvin · January 2015

Observant wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

With lower taxes, guilds would need to promote more sales.
More sales = more competition = lower prices

And yes, kiosks should only be bought with guild store profit.
I'm not giving my money to a trading guild, I'm trying to make it.

The problem with this is:

If you start out with a crappy Kiosk in BFE you won't make much sales.

If you already have the kiosk in Rawl'Ka you're going to have good sales and be able to maintain it.

All this would do is create a barrier for entry to new guilds.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

While that sounds like a good idea on paper, it would entrench the guilds that already have a kiosk and not give other guilds who don't have a vendor a chance at outbidding them.

You assume there's no other change than the one suggested by the OP. There are many things they could do to fix what's there that won't raise the costs to bid. I've suggested a few and been screamed out of a few threads. The current Kiosk Winners want to keep their stranglehold on the economy and want us to pay for it. That's what the OP is asking for and I'll leave before I submit to a system like the ones suggested.

OrangeTheCat · January 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Yes, let's make it even easier for guilds to inflate the costs of the kiosks even higher than they are now! Seesh! Some of us think Kiosk bids should be limited to the income only made from sales from the stores. Prices will be kept in check by the market better, kiosks won't be ludicrously expensive and more guilds will have a fair chance of out bidding their competitors.

While that sounds like a good idea on paper, it would entrench the guilds that already have a kiosk and not give other guilds who don't have a vendor a chance at outbidding them.

You assume there's no other change than the one suggested by the OP. There are many things they could do to fix what's there that won't raise the costs to bid. I've suggested a few and been screamed out of a few threads. The current Kiosk Winners want to keep their stranglehold on the economy and want us to pay for it. That's what the OP is asking for and I'll leave before I submit to a system like the ones suggested.

Real life (vested interests against needed change [realtors, brokers, etc] ) asserts itself into game life.

timidobserver · January 2015

Nestor wrote: »

Sorry, but feeding more money into the system will only result in guild stores rental fees going up, requiring higher bids so that those who do not have Guild Stores will never get a fair chance to bid on anything.

You will end up with the same situation you are in now, only all the prices will be higher. This only makes the system more exclusionary.

You want to be able to afford to have a Guild Kiosk, then lets get ZOS to have more Kiosks. Make Trader Centers that people actually want to go to and they can shop 10 or 20 kiosks. Let us have a default search based on the last search we did at a kiosk. I would imagine that most of us hit the Kiosks looking for specific items most of the time, so this will make each kiosk search for those items go faster.

Awesome guild store does that default search thing.