The Grind - Why Not Take the Creative Approach?

Humanistic · January 2015

Since day 1, I've been watching the grinding spots get nerfed. The only reason that I can possibly understand for that is because you don't want players leveling so quickly, because if they do - then they are more likely to quit sooner than later. Which means less money.

Now I believe some of these spots were a little crazy, people farming - instead of nerfing it, why not do the same thing, in a more controlled environment? People like loot, and they like gold, and they like finding good grind spots in the game that help them advance their level faster. If you're going to nerf a grind spot, then create a new one. This will make people happy, and allow them to continue leveling and enjoying themselves. Because honestly, grind spots are fun - and they also promote group play.

Besides that, if you take this approach, that would only mean more end game content would have to be created, which is what people want any way. Create new grind spots, and simply add more end-game stuff. People like leveling quickly, it's fun.

Developers should always be mindful about the fun factor - if players are having fun, let them - because quite honestly, when you take that away from them, it completely deters them from doing what they logged in to do to begin with: have fun playing a game.

I'd really love to hear what other players think about this, because I hate grinding levels, but I love "grind spots" because they are just fun.

Ahdora · January 2015

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

Humanistic · January 2015

Because most of them are unintended, and it can be difficult for some to participate. If they simply nerf them, and create new ones, then they have a more controlled environment that they can tweak for players to enjoy themselves more!

Ahdora · January 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

Nestor · January 2015

If people want to grind levels, let them.

Although I do see a situation where the CP System might reward a player who just grinds mobs up to L50, then goes back and does the content for their zones.

However, so what, if that is what someone wants to let them. It would be no different than someone who does the content, then grinds mobs for CPs/Exp.

Because someone is going to grind somewhere at some point for some reason.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

Nestor wrote: »

If people want to grind levels, let them.

Although I do see a situation where the CP System might reward a player who just grinds mobs up to L50, then goes back and does the content for their zones.

However, so what, if that is what someone wants to let them. It would be no different than someone who does the content, then grinds mobs for CPs/Exp.

Because someone is going to grind somewhere at some point for some reason.

Exactly, it should be no different. The problem has been that players have found ways to make grinding a much faster alternative to playing other content. That's all that's being fixed.

Nestor · January 2015

Adjusting Spawn Rates can go a long way to balancing this without messing about with Exp per mob. I know some areas have a much faster spawn rate than others (Vile Lab for instance) so it is possible to do this anywhere.

Ahdora · January 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

I'm not talking about the exploits, though. I'm talking about legitimate grinding.

My issue here is this: Quests in general require a fair bit of dialogue and running around doing things that do not net you XP. The XP reward at the end of a string of quests ends up being lower than what you would have gained had you spent the same amount of time grinding mobs.

In order to bring everything to the same level, you're penalizing the people who are putting in that solid time just killing things. If anything, if it's balance they want to achieve between the two leveling styles, then buff quest XP. But I think it's silly to try to strike that balance anyway. I have zero issue with people leveling faster than me/getting CP faster than me. I don't need everyone brought down to a certain level.

Besides that, everyone has access to grinding. If you wanted to level faster, you could go do it, too.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

I'm not talking about the exploits, though. I'm talking about legitimate grinding.

My issue here is this: Quests in general require a fair bit of dialogue and running around doing things that do not net you XP. The XP reward at the end of a string of quests ends up being lower than what you would have gained had you spent the same amount of time grinding mobs.

In order to bring everything to the same level, you're penalizing the people who are putting in that solid time just killing things. If anything, if it's balance they want to achieve between the two leveling styles, then buff quest XP. But I think it's silly to try to strike that balance anyway. I have zero issue with people leveling faster than me/getting CP faster than me. I don't need everyone brought down to a certain level.

Besides that, everyone has access to grinding. If you wanted to level faster, you could go do it, too.

What, exactly, is your problem with leveling at the same rate as someone who wants to play a different way? Isn't this exactly what people who claim to love grinding are harping on about every time they protest a change?

This is an attempt to truly equalize all playstyles. Where's the harm in that?

Ahdora · January 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

I'm not talking about the exploits, though. I'm talking about legitimate grinding.

My issue here is this: Quests in general require a fair bit of dialogue and running around doing things that do not net you XP. The XP reward at the end of a string of quests ends up being lower than what you would have gained had you spent the same amount of time grinding mobs.

In order to bring everything to the same level, you're penalizing the people who are putting in that solid time just killing things. If anything, if it's balance they want to achieve between the two leveling styles, then buff quest XP. But I think it's silly to try to strike that balance anyway. I have zero issue with people leveling faster than me/getting CP faster than me. I don't need everyone brought down to a certain level.

Besides that, everyone has access to grinding. If you wanted to level faster, you could go do it, too.

What, exactly, is your problem with leveling at the same rate as someone who wants to play a different way? Isn't this exactly what people who claim to love grinding are harping on about every time they protest a change?

This is an attempt to truly equalize all playstyles. Where's the harm in that?

Did you read my post? I said if they truly wanted to achieve the balance, buffing quest XP would be better than reducing mob XP.

By the way, I almost exclusively quest to level. Very limited grinding. I just don't feel everyone should be forced to play at my pace, which is what reducing mob XP is effectively forcing.

Playstyles don't need to be equal. People who are grinding are killing MORE MOBS than I am. It makes sense that they should get MORE XP.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

I'm not talking about the exploits, though. I'm talking about legitimate grinding.

My issue here is this: Quests in general require a fair bit of dialogue and running around doing things that do not net you XP. The XP reward at the end of a string of quests ends up being lower than what you would have gained had you spent the same amount of time grinding mobs.

In order to bring everything to the same level, you're penalizing the people who are putting in that solid time just killing things. If anything, if it's balance they want to achieve between the two leveling styles, then buff quest XP. But I think it's silly to try to strike that balance anyway. I have zero issue with people leveling faster than me/getting CP faster than me. I don't need everyone brought down to a certain level.

Besides that, everyone has access to grinding. If you wanted to level faster, you could go do it, too.

What, exactly, is your problem with leveling at the same rate as someone who wants to play a different way? Isn't this exactly what people who claim to love grinding are harping on about every time they protest a change?

This is an attempt to truly equalize all playstyles. Where's the harm in that?

Did you read my post? I said if they truly wanted to achieve the balance, buffing quest XP would be better than reducing mob XP.

By the way, I almost exclusively quest to level. Very limited grinding. I just don't feel everyone should be forced to play at my pace, which is what reducing mob XP is effectively forcing.

Except it all amounts to the same thing: people will be able to level at the same rate, regardless of their playstyle. The only possible reason someone would object to that is if they wanted to be able to level faster than others using their preferred method of play.

Ahdora · January 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

The OP is the one who used the term nerf.

Besides, grinding is not an exploit. It's finding the mobs that give the highest amount of XP in a zone and have a nice concentration of mobs, and killing them repeatedly.

If they find an actual exploit, then it should be fixed. Reducing the amount of XP mobs give because players are killing them, through normal gameplay, on normal respawn timers, is silly.

Except most of the grind changes that have been protested were exploits (Bittermaw, etc.).

In terms of other adjustments, they are simply making sure that there is no one way to level faster than everyone else. That's so that the Champion System won't result in everyone grinding all the time to try and keep up. It's called balance, and it's a good thing.

If you're truly one of the players who enjoys grinding, then you should have no problem with it being brought in to line with other methods of gaining XP.

I'm not talking about the exploits, though. I'm talking about legitimate grinding.

My issue here is this: Quests in general require a fair bit of dialogue and running around doing things that do not net you XP. The XP reward at the end of a string of quests ends up being lower than what you would have gained had you spent the same amount of time grinding mobs.

In order to bring everything to the same level, you're penalizing the people who are putting in that solid time just killing things. If anything, if it's balance they want to achieve between the two leveling styles, then buff quest XP. But I think it's silly to try to strike that balance anyway. I have zero issue with people leveling faster than me/getting CP faster than me. I don't need everyone brought down to a certain level.

Besides that, everyone has access to grinding. If you wanted to level faster, you could go do it, too.

What, exactly, is your problem with leveling at the same rate as someone who wants to play a different way? Isn't this exactly what people who claim to love grinding are harping on about every time they protest a change?

This is an attempt to truly equalize all playstyles. Where's the harm in that?

Did you read my post? I said if they truly wanted to achieve the balance, buffing quest XP would be better than reducing mob XP.

By the way, I almost exclusively quest to level. Very limited grinding. I just don't feel everyone should be forced to play at my pace, which is what reducing mob XP is effectively forcing.

Except it all amounts to the same thing: people will be able to level at the same rate, regardless of their playstyle. The only possible reason someone would object to that is if they wanted to be able to level faster than others using their preferred method of play.

Wrong. I gave you my objection, and it has nothing to do with that.

Which should be evidenced, given the fact that my main is only V11 and I have zero vet level alts.

I don't want to penalize other players for playing a different way. They are killing exponentially more mobs while they grind than I am while questing, why should they get the same amount of XP that I do?

Kraven · January 2015

Why does everyone think "It has to be equal!!! How dare you level faster than me?" That's kind of selfish isn't it? Doesn't matter if you want to quest to level why should that affect someone else's XP gain? Or vice versa. You are either grinding quests or grinding mobs and since I've done the quests...all of the exact same quests twice. I don't want to do them again. Force me to do them again and I'm bored out of my damn mind and why would I ever play a boring game?

So billy bob leveled faster than you? So what? So some people prefer to grind rather than quest, so what? So some people level only in PvP, so what? So you are not equal if you play for 5 hours per week versus someone who plays for 20+, so what? Get over it. You shouldn't be equal, there HAS to be variety because not everyone enjoys the exact same thing you do. How dare someone grind!? I say how dare you assert your play style on someone else? If they want to grind let them and quit nerfing the crap.

Best part is instanced zones are being nerfed pushing those that do prefer to grind into open world locations...Why? By grinding in instanced locations these players aren't hurting any one at all. They're actually out of the way of people trying to quest in open world location. What exactly is the harm? Why are you personally so bothered by the fact that some people prefer to grind?

If I pull in 8-12 targets and burn them down in 8-15 seconds...let's take 10 targets at 15s per pull which I've done, I'm killing 40 targets per minute. If that quest takes you 20 minutes, I've killed 800 targets. You're upset that in the course of me killing 800 enemies versus the 20 or so you had to kill for the quest + quest reward that I might get a higher xp per minute ratio? Come on.

Dedhed · January 2015

Personally, the grind spots are fine for me. Then again, one of the things I really enjoy about this game is that the leveling takes some time. I don't like leveling quickly, because it just speeds through to endgame. Endgame is cool and all, but I like taking my time in the rest of the game too.

pronkg · January 2015

They probably nerfed it in preparation of champion system. We don't want people having 1000 cp within a week now do we.

pronkg · January 2015

Let them balance it, be patient

Kraven · January 2015

pronkg wrote: »

They probably nerfed it in preparation of champion system. We don't want people having 1000 cp within a week now do we.

No. Champion System is still a while away from live servers, quite a while at the going rate. Also all the xp is being adjusted in 1.6 itself so no reason at all to make this small change this long before 1.6. The change was made because people were grinding new vet characters, because people saw no need in wasting content they could use when 1.6 goes live.

Now the majority of people who were grinding already have vet characters, or they prefer PvP over PvE. Trying to slap them on the wrist and say "How dare you grind! You must enjoy our quests again, and again, and again...ad nauseam."

xMovingTarget · January 2015

It suxx. I mean the nerf. I actually leveling a replica of my Main Character in another alliance.
Right when i was hitting VR1 everything got nerfed. And now i need to do the quests i already did 3 times. I am fed up. Its far away from being fun.
I am completely demotivated. Not gonna lie..

UrQuan · January 2015

Kraven wrote: »

Why does everyone think "It has to be equal!!! How dare you level faster than me?" That's kind of selfish isn't it? Doesn't matter if you want to quest to level why should that affect someone else's XP gain? Or vice versa.

It doesn't have to be exactly equal, but in an ideal world it should be comparable. If a player spends 10 hours questing, his XP gain should be similar to his XP gain if he spends 10 hours grinding, or if he spends 10 hours PvPing. There are far too many variables to ever make it exactly equal, but the XP gains should be in the same ballpark (as long as the activity you're doing is one that grants XP, anyway - you shouldn't progress at a similar pace if you're farming mats for sale, for example). Why should they be similar? Because:

Kraven wrote: »

You are either grinding quests or grinding mobs and since I've done the quests...all of the exact same quests twice. I don't want to do them again. Force me to do them again and I'm bored out of my damn mind and why would I ever play a boring game?

So why shouldn't 1 form of XP-earning play grant you significantly more XP than others given the same amount of time? Because people can get bored of one form of play, just like you did! If all 3 earn similar amounts of XP over the same amount of actual play time, then you can freely switch between them without feeling like you're screwing yourself over. This increases the longevity of the game, because you can spend a lot more time playing it before you get too bored.

So it doesn't have to be equal, but it should be in the same ballpark. If one is significantly better than the others when it comes to XP, then there'd better be other non-XP rewards to playing the other ways in order to help balance that out.

Small differences between them, on the other hand, are just fine. When it comes to grinding, for example, there's no reason why each zone can't have 1 or 2 grind spots where you can earn more XP in an hour than you would by questing, as long as the difference isn't too much. What you don't want is a situation where grinding for 10 hours brings you from level 1-50, while questing for 10 hours brings you from level 1-25.

Humanistic · January 2015

Good point @UrQuan, they just have a tendency to "fix" things that don't need fixing, or shouldn't have been messed with to begin with. Like when they nerfed the cast time for Biting Jabs for Templar that one time. Seemed completely unnecessary - come to find out later they just needed to tweak the damage, not the cast time.

Balance is good, but the thing people need to remember is there will be gamers that level faster or slower any way you look at it. They simply spend more or less actual time in the game than other people do, and no developer can account for that.

Lynnessa · January 2015

Maybe it's because grinding xp doesn't give an equal opportunity to all players.

Say you were gonna grind some xp. You go to your favorite grind spot and what do you find but another grind group (or two or three or however many) already killing all the things. Now you can't grind because someone else is using it.

Is that fair, when that can't happen with other ways to get xp?

Humanistic · January 2015

They could make it fair by creating grind spots for players, specifically for that - instead of just crunching the numbers and putting X amount of mobs here and there; or however they figure out how to put so many mobs where.

Lynnessa · January 2015

Humanistic wrote: »

They could make it fair by creating grind spots for players, specifically for that - instead of just crunching the numbers and putting X amount of mobs here and there; or however they figure out how to put so many mobs where.

Hm, perhaps but... I do think it's probably better if they spent their time on things other than making sure there are enough grind spots for everyone.

Magdalina · January 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

Maybe it's because grinding xp doesn't give an equal opportunity to all players.

Say you were gonna grind some xp. You go to your favorite grind spot and what do you find but another grind group (or two or three or however many) already killing all the things. Now you can't grind because someone else is using it.

Is that fair, when that can't happen with other ways to get xp?

It was perfectly fair in Rkundzelft, which is an instanced dungeon where you'll never see another player unless you're groupped with them.

I used to be strictly against grinding, and I love that questing, but that's exactly why I refuse to do it again. I have done like every single quest there is, to the point where I was outleveling content in non vet zones by like 7+ levels just by doing ALL the quests. I actually still remember most of them. I'm not overly satisfied with my main's class, plus I'm bored, we haven't had any new content for a while so I'm leveling alts of other classes/alliances. I don't want to quest on them, I want to get them to endgame and actually do stuff with them. I HATE grinding, I'm not actually sure I'd be able to do it for extended periods of time but at least it's an option. Why on Earth remove options? If people have a choice between quickly leveling an alt and having fun with it or getting bored out of their mind and possibly leaving the game, who in their right mind would push for option #2?

If they want people to experience story that much, they should like at least leave the grinding option for people with alts or something. I dunno, done 1k+ quests on a char->mobs in Rkundzelft drop more experience or something like that.

Syntse · January 2015

The grind spots that people seem to refer usually being the true grind spots have been places where you can take advantage of game mechanics not working correctly.

Hircine - reseting fight to kill all the adds boss throws over and over again
Scorpion - reseting the boss over and over by not killing the adds
Rkunzelft - instant reset of instance by getting out and regrouping
etc...

There are still many spots that has faster monster respawn rate that can be used as grind spots without abuse. So if Zen fixes something that is not working as supposed they should create another one for abuse? If something is too good to be true then it most likely is.

TehMagnus · January 2015

People who are only in MMOGs for the questing actually end up leaving sooner than people who grind to max because they run out of content. When people grind to max level it's because end game and competition is what matters to them.

As long as the competition is interesting and as long as they can level up new characters fast to compete, then they will keep playing (and end up being among the most loyal customers). The players who "will just reach cap without questing & leave" in any case do not like questing and will just leave sooner if they can't grind to max level, in no way will they say: "MMhhm I wanted to get to end game and finish this game asap, but now I can't, I guess I'll just have to quest", but more like "Wut? I gotta do generic MMO quests to advance to max level? *** that, I'm unsubbing".

There is no matter of "fairness" between grinders and questers nor a matter of "equality" because they just aren't playing for the same reasons nor even playing the same game.

I don't think ZOS is against grinding all together either, else they would have nerfed grinding spots from level1-50, they clearly nerfed Craglorn grind to avoid people farming CP (which they could have done when 1.6 is installed instead of 2 months before since that's 2 months where a lot of people are just going to unsub

).

Maybe when we find an other way to grind CPs like kills exchange in Cyrodill or rushing through instances to finish them extremely quickly (for the selected few who can), they will reconsider and allow anyone who wants it, to grind.

I_killed_Vivec · January 2015

I'm still missing something...

"Wut? I gotta do generic MMO quests to advance to max level? *** that, I'm unsubbing"

Because you'd rather do "generic MMO grinding"?

Is grinding any less fulfilling than "generic MMO quests"?

Or is it simply because grinding is "supposed to be" a more efficient way of gaining XP, so one can get to max level faster?

I suspect, but I might be wrong, that people who want to grind rather than quest to get XP do so because of the relative speed of levelling up. However, no matter how much ZOS might nerf XP gained from grinding, if that really is anyone's preference then they will still be able to do it - the only difference is that it might take a bit longer.

You can still play it your way

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

Creative use of the words exploit and balance, i see you're still on the ball when it comes to finding ways to support ZOS at every turn.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

Creative use of the words exploit and balance, i see you're still on the ball when it comes to finding ways to support ZOS at every turn.

Most of the very popular grinds in the past few months (scorpion, Bittermaw, etc.) have been exploits of bugs in the game system. Didn't take all that much creativity to call them what they were.