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Dear Zenimax: We don't all want to quest, we want to Play as We Want.
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Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭I understand what you want . You want players to play your way .
Then you really don't understand.
I want a game where questing, grinding, dungeoneering or PvPing gives everybody a somewhat equal (or close) pace of progression. Do you really think I want to force people to quest despite not liking it ?![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Like you said, it's all about being inclusive. I just don't think that grinding having a 2x or even 5x higher XP return than questing or PvP is inclusive in the slightest.
This is what forces PvPers to go grind to be able to actually do PvP and compete in Cyrodiil and what forces questers to go grind to be able to actually do anything else.
I think the skill point argument isn't that good, because Cyrodiil has plenty of skyshards and PvP progression awards skill points too. Now, maybe Cyrodiil has less total skill points, and I would totally support making that more even. PvP needs a lot of love, actually.
Then you would have to give grinders a few extra skill points while grinding to make up for the missing quest skill points in order to be equal .
But that can't be done because the person grinding could go back and get those skill points in quests after . I think you're looking at the speed of grinding to level through a microscope instead of seeing the bigger picture .
Grinders are sacrificing level for skill points and reward gear already .
What a lie, you people actually believe what you're saying?
Exploration:
Skyshards - 107 Skillpoints
PvP:
Alliance War Ranks - 49 Skillpoints
Questing:
Zone Quest Lines - 48 Skillpoints
Main Story Quests - 10 Skillpoints
Dungeons:
Group Dungeon Quests - 16 Skillpoints
Public Dungeons - 16 Skillpoints
Everyone:
Levels - 49 Skillpoints
So you guys wanted facts right? Here you go:
- Grinding is (still) 5x faster than Questing
- Reaching VR14 (at least) 5x faster gives you many benefits:- Exploration - it doesn't really matter, as it takes the same amount of time between everyone
- Questing - You are VR14, guess what you are breezing through the quests without effort
- Dungeons - Guess what as a VR14, you are able to compete for the endgame immediately (soloing Public Dungeons is as well much much faster)
- PvP - Being VR14, gd luck to all VR1s that spent 10x more time than you did, because they won't stand a chance
Before someone comes here and says, but those have more skillpoints therefore VR1 could be stronger than VR14. Is that really so? There is a big difference between VR1 and VR14 -> Weapon and Armor.
The VR14 ability to hunt for all the skillpoints at a much faster rate totally destroys any argument here.
Yes Veteran Ranks are going away in about 2 months, maybe more, but we are talking about now. Also when they do go away, there won't be a point to grind for points anyway, unless you are totally out of your mind.Edited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 4:37PM4 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grinding Is 5X faster then questing eh ? lol
That number sounds made up ... Is that a real number ? Did you make that up ?1 -
Emencie✭✭✭✭All this 1 hour questing, should equal 1 hour grinding, should equal 1 hour PVPing is actually ridiculous.
Simply because the effort is not the same!
In one hour of PvP a player may assault 3 locations, only take one and spend the rest of the time planning with their faction which tactic to do next. Or perhaps the player stealthed into enemy territory with a gank squad. Taking 30+ minutes to get there but once they arrive they put down siege hit the wall enough to bring the enemies back to defend.
In Questing, one hour may be dominated by doing a single quest that requires collecting clickable items, watching a cut scene, then talking to 3 people who are in far locations on the map. Taking the player into a town where they sell, craft and buy items. Perhaps when it's all said and done the player has to kill 10 enemies of some sort and gets a single boss fight.
The point is. in PvP and questing in this game half our time (sometimes more) is spent just walking around or watching things or in some cases waiting. While the grinder is maximizing their time spent killing, and minimizing looting and of course town visits.
It makes no sense to try to justify 1 hour of questing to have the same amount of experience as 1 hour of grinding simply because it doesn't take the same amount of effort to do. And honestly they never can get it to that point unless they make it so killing enemies yields so little XP that stopping to kill one is a waste of time.
But they will never ever get rid of grinding, simply because "Grinding" is not about killing mobs over and over again, sometimes its about a quest turn in that you repeat, or a skill you use over and over standing in place. It's about maximizing your time and energy to attain a goal.
The current ESO grinders are the same people in previous TES games, that went into a shop and stealth walked for hours to get ranks. or found a low ceiling to spam the jump button to level out acrobatics. We spend hours maximizing and learning the fastest way to get to our goal and we do it.1 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭
Yes it's easy to dismiss facts, when they aren't in your favor right?
Everyone that is still supporting, how grinding should be more rewarding than other aspects of the game, needs to look at themself in the mirror, how are you not ashamed.
You provide facts that you are getting less skillpoints, what does it even matter? If you are not crafting on that character, you don't even need half the skillpoints.
I'm pretty sure even with just half the skillpoints (Levels + exploration) -> you are already pretty much ready to do every endgame content in ESO.Edited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 4:47PM4 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Oh boo-f*-hoo, ZOZ is ironing out the grindspots.
If you don't want to quest, you can, i don't know, stay in the forest, killing boars :-) You will then be mightier than the mightiest player who is stronger than the admins themselves. You know, a couple of million boars (or mudcrabs to put it into ESO context).
I'm not saying there aren't other ways to gain XP, just that grinding isn't the answer. There shouldn't be a "way of play" that grants XP 10x, hell even 100x faster than regular gameplay.
And every game i know and play combats grinding.
Off the top of my head:
GTA V Online - the first month (X360 release) - people were replaying one single job (not the one you could glitch by sticky bombs and win it in 30 secons or less) over and over again. Next update Rockstar released combated that. They lowered rewards for repeated completions of a job. Significantly. Then they removed the replay job button if you completed it succesfully.
And they were banning people that previously abused this (i think mostly the sticky bomb guys tho).
You "enjoyed" your grinding time, now hop on for some regular content
People grinding and questing aren't playing the same game and if people are serious about hardcore competition in and still want to take their time to quest it's their choice but not a choice that should be imposed on the rest of the players who don't want questing. Moreover this has nothing to do with rewards since the loot tables of the grinding spots that gave good loot where nerfed (with reason) a very long time ago and GTA isn't an MMORPG so if that's your reference: LOL.
Your post is a perfect representation of the egoistical "play as I want" attitude described by others in previous posts.
You tell them that.....after making a thread dictitating what others "want" and speaking for people who never elected you as their voice...uh-huh...House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Oh boo-f*-hoo, ZOZ is ironing out the grindspots.
If you don't want to quest, you can, i don't know, stay in the forest, killing boars :-) You will then be mightier than the mightiest player who is stronger than the admins themselves. You know, a couple of million boars (or mudcrabs to put it into ESO context).
I'm not saying there aren't other ways to gain XP, just that grinding isn't the answer. There shouldn't be a "way of play" that grants XP 10x, hell even 100x faster than regular gameplay.
And every game i know and play combats grinding.
Off the top of my head:
GTA V Online - the first month (X360 release) - people were replaying one single job (not the one you could glitch by sticky bombs and win it in 30 secons or less) over and over again. Next update Rockstar released combated that. They lowered rewards for repeated completions of a job. Significantly. Then they removed the replay job button if you completed it succesfully.
And they were banning people that previously abused this (i think mostly the sticky bomb guys tho).
You "enjoyed" your grinding time, now hop on for some regular content
People grinding and questing aren't playing the same game and if people are serious about hardcore competition in and still want to take their time to quest it's their choice but not a choice that should be imposed on the rest of the players who don't want questing. Moreover this has nothing to do with rewards since the loot tables of the grinding spots that gave good loot where nerfed (with reason) a very long time ago and GTA isn't an MMORPG so if that's your reference: LOL.
Your post is a perfect representation of the egoistical "play as I want" attitude described by others in previous posts.
You tell them that.....after making a thread dictitating what others "want" and speaking for people who never elected you as their voice...uh-huh...
Except I'm not trying to force nothing onto nobody and from the replies I was actually speaking for people who agree with me.
Next?
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trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭After this week's patch, all Craglorn grinding was nerfed. Bosses in dungeons and in the world don't even give 1K XP anymore, Spellscar was nerfed, everything was nerfed.
Here are some facts:
- For many people, questing is boring and useless, you must admit that in any case questing is nothing more than: Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over. Which gets old very very fast.
- Many people are not in here for the quests, some want to PVP, some want to do end game content, you're forcing those people to waste time questing to VR14 till 1.7 is released and everybody is at level 50.
- Many people have already done all those quests on more than 1 character and even though they want a new VR14 character, they don't want to spend weeks doing the same quests they already did 4 times to get to VR14 on their 4 previous chars.
Last be not least important:
- You're forcing people to quest from VR1 to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in, thus forcing players to go through the content you're basically removing because it's very unpopular.
I understand that the aim is to avoid CP farming when 1.6 kicks in, but the problem is that while people wait for 1.7 which could take 3 to 4 months to come, you're forcing people to experience the content you are removing because of it's unpopularity, moreover, you stealth nerfed it before the CP system was implemented. Players who only have 1 char that isn't VR14 yet will be forced to quest to get to VR14 when the rest of the players have been grinding those levels since Craglorn's launch, thus making it extremely unfair for your newer players or people who planed to level quickly to VR14 in order to get 70CP.
You won't be able to nerf everything without breaking the game and good players will always find a way to grind CP faster than normal players by optimizing anything that gives a the most of XP for the less time, moreover they won't talk about the new spots since you've clearly started the war against grind and thus only a selected few will be advancing faster than the rest of the players.
At least with grinding spots everybody has a fair chance.
While I understand what you are saying, I can also understand the risks that ZOS foresees when the update 6 is released. The risks are:
- People grind their CP at well known places in Craglorn (Hircine, ...)
- Only a few people play the game as it is intended to be played, i.e. normally as if there were nothing to grind (PvP, PvE dungeons, etc...)
- The population in Cyrodiil is very low and we can hardly find some one to group for the PvE dungeons, because most people are grinding their CP.
The game is dead until people finish grinding their CP.
This is exactly what happened when the new VR14 was released. If ZOS does the same mistake again, people we feel like the new Champion System is like a new VR, much longer to achieve. The impacts would be terrible for the game.
So I agree with you that people should be able to grind their VR from VR1 to VR14. But in my opinion, it should not be possible to grind the CP. Or face the consequences
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I love questing; leveling has seemed to have gotten easier the past few months in my opinion.
I have no idea where the OP is coming from with their "facts," because it certainly doesn't relate at all to the game I've been playing. If one is bored with the current quests, maybe then it is the player, not the game?
But in relation to the "facts" the OP posted,
- I find most quests interesting, there are good amounts of stories and lore in most. I actually find it amazing that they could transform the "Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over" that EVERY GAME HAS and actually make it enjoyable and give a REASON for why I perform the task(s) in question.
- "Many people" came here for Elder Scrolls and its rich lore. X amount is PvP, Y amount is PvE, Z amount is for anything and everything. Speaking for the community under such false conditions doesn't help you; please, don't speak for other people OP, the "many" you speak of could also most likely translate to people who've been complaining from the start, yet still play the game for some reason and wish to change it for their own personal reasons.
- That is the choice of the player if they wish to roll multiple characters on the same faction. If anything, it should be much easier to perform after having a better idea on what to do, etc.
- What would you have us do from VR1-VR14? I know I've been having fun question, harvesting mats, taking loads of screenshots, enjoying the environments, doing world bosses, dolmens, etc. Recently, I was only VR 6 on my main (had been busy since release and only had X amount of free time [Thanks to my university giving such time consuming assignments haha), but I hit around 25% into VR 11 yesterday. It's a cakewalk without trying unless a player skips most things.
All and all I have to disagree with most of this thread, but respect the OP's opinion on how they see the game.
Thats nice and all. Did you read my posts? What do you want a player that has already quested through every zone to do?
I have seen almost all of the quest content the game in its current state has to offer (I did enjoy it for one playthrough). I do NOT enjoy repeating the same quests on a different character. How am i supposed to level a twink? I have done the content of EVERY faction with the veteran zones (with the one vet 14 i have). There is nothing new to explore.
Your post is completely biased around you not having completed the content on your main yet and you dismiss the opinion of the op because you have not reached the point where it would bother you.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »After this week's patch, all Craglorn grinding was nerfed. Bosses in dungeons and in the world don't even give 1K XP anymore, Spellscar was nerfed, everything was nerfed.
Here are some facts:
- For many people, questing is boring and useless, you must admit that in any case questing is nothing more than: Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over. Which gets old very very fast.
- Many people are not in here for the quests, some want to PVP, some want to do end game content, you're forcing those people to waste time questing to VR14 till 1.7 is released and everybody is at level 50.
- Many people have already done all those quests on more than 1 character and even though they want a new VR14 character, they don't want to spend weeks doing the same quests they already did 4 times to get to VR14 on their 4 previous chars.
Last be not least important:
- You're forcing people to quest from VR1 to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in, thus forcing players to go through the content you're basically removing because it's very unpopular.
I understand that the aim is to avoid CP farming when 1.6 kicks in, but the problem is that while people wait for 1.7 which could take 3 to 4 months to come, you're forcing people to experience the content you are removing because of it's unpopularity, moreover, you stealth nerfed it before the CP system was implemented. Players who only have 1 char that isn't VR14 yet will be forced to quest to get to VR14 when the rest of the players have been grinding those levels since Craglorn's launch, thus making it extremely unfair for your newer players or people who planed to level quickly to VR14 in order to get 70CP.
You won't be able to nerf everything without breaking the game and good players will always find a way to grind CP faster than normal players by optimizing anything that gives a the most of XP for the less time, moreover they won't talk about the new spots since you've clearly started the war against grind and thus only a selected few will be advancing faster than the rest of the players.
At least with grinding spots everybody has a fair chance.
While I understand what you are saying, I can also understand the risks that ZOS foresees when the update 6 is released. The risks are:
- People grind their CP at well known places in Craglorn (Hircine, ...)
- Only a few people play the game as it is intended to be played, i.e. normally as if there were nothing to grind (PvP, PvE dungeons, etc...)
- The population in Cyrodiil is very low and we can hardly find some one to group for the PvE dungeons, because most people are grinding their CP.
The game is dead until people finish grinding their CP.
This is exactly what happened when the new VR14 was released. If ZOS does the same mistake again, people we feel like the new Champion System is like a new VR, much longer to achieve. The impacts would be terrible for the game.
So I agree with you that people should be able to grind their VR from VR1 to VR14. But in my opinion, it should not be possible to grind the CP. Or face the consequences
Except people will still find ways to grind the CP. Something repeatable is bound to return the maximum amount of CP for the minimum amount of time. Once it is found, people will just do it over and over again
Edit: What I'm sayin' is that there is no avoiding the grind no matter what they do. Might as well implement what sum1 said (if you earn too many CP in a small amount of time, you get diminishing CP returns, kinda like reverse enlightenment)Edited by TehMagnus on January 14, 2015 4:56PM0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
1 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »After this week's patch, all Craglorn grinding was nerfed. Bosses in dungeons and in the world don't even give 1K XP anymore, Spellscar was nerfed, everything was nerfed.
Here are some facts:
- For many people, questing is boring and useless, you must admit that in any case questing is nothing more than: Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over. Which gets old very very fast.
- Many people are not in here for the quests, some want to PVP, some want to do end game content, you're forcing those people to waste time questing to VR14 till 1.7 is released and everybody is at level 50.
- Many people have already done all those quests on more than 1 character and even though they want a new VR14 character, they don't want to spend weeks doing the same quests they already did 4 times to get to VR14 on their 4 previous chars.
Last be not least important:
- You're forcing people to quest from VR1 to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in, thus forcing players to go through the content you're basically removing because it's very unpopular.
I understand that the aim is to avoid CP farming when 1.6 kicks in, but the problem is that while people wait for 1.7 which could take 3 to 4 months to come, you're forcing people to experience the content you are removing because of it's unpopularity, moreover, you stealth nerfed it before the CP system was implemented. Players who only have 1 char that isn't VR14 yet will be forced to quest to get to VR14 when the rest of the players have been grinding those levels since Craglorn's launch, thus making it extremely unfair for your newer players or people who planed to level quickly to VR14 in order to get 70CP.
You won't be able to nerf everything without breaking the game and good players will always find a way to grind CP faster than normal players by optimizing anything that gives a the most of XP for the less time, moreover they won't talk about the new spots since you've clearly started the war against grind and thus only a selected few will be advancing faster than the rest of the players.
At least with grinding spots everybody has a fair chance.
While I understand what you are saying, I can also understand the risks that ZOS foresees when the update 6 is released. The risks are:
- People grind their CP at well known places in Craglorn (Hircine, ...)
- Only a few people play the game as it is intended to be played, i.e. normally as if there were nothing to grind (PvP, PvE dungeons, etc...)
- The population in Cyrodiil is very low and we can hardly find some one to group for the PvE dungeons, because most people are grinding their CP.
The game is dead until people finish grinding their CP.
This is exactly what happened when the new VR14 was released. If ZOS does the same mistake again, people we feel like the new Champion System is like a new VR, much longer to achieve. The impacts would be terrible for the game.
So I agree with you that people should be able to grind their VR from VR1 to VR14. But in my opinion, it should not be possible to grind the CP. Or face the consequences
Except people will still find ways to grind the CP. Something repeatable is bound to return the maximum amount of CP for the minimum amount of time. Once it is found, people will just do it over and over again
Edit: What I'm sayin' is that there is no avoiding the grind no matter what they do. Might as well implement what sum1 said (if you earn too many CP in a small amount of time, you get diminishing CP returns, kinda like reverse enlightenment)
I can see at least one solution to make sure people will not grind their CP:
- Killing a mob or a veteran mob does not grant any CP at all
- Killing a boss in a dungeon grants some CP
- Completing a dungeon grants CP
- Killing people in Cyrodiil grants some CP
- Completing a quest grants CP (daily or not, PvP or PvE)
This system would be fair for both the people who are still not VR14 and those who are already VR14. It would be fair for both the people who PvP and those who are PvE. And this system would make sure people won't grind anything. Just play the game as it is intended to be played, and you will earn CP progressively and smoothly.
Edit:
What we need to understand is that the Champion System is vital to the future of the game for a very simple reason: people won't renew their subscription if, months after months, their character does not progress at all and / or if there is no new objectives in the game. People need objectives. People need a game where, once they log out, their character is a bit stronger (or different) than what it was when they logged in. We all know that any new contents is exhausted in much less time than needed to develop it. So any strategy based on adding only new contents without any progression system is just a bad strategy.
This is the reason why, we should not be allowed to grind our CP. Because otherwise, the game is dead.
Edited by trimsic_ESO on January 14, 2015 5:23PM0 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?Edited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 5:17PM0 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭The story in this game is not exactly Mass Effect or anything...
It holds no replayvalue or alternate outcomes, cadwells silber and gold are lazy excuses and as far as im told you barely get enough XP from quests to reach v12 at most.
So excuse me if i rather skip that BS on my third char4 -
Antiquity✭✭This is nearly as bad as one of those cp threads before before they appeased the angry vet gods with a sacrifice of champ points.
Why would you ever buy a game to leave out part of the content? I mean I understand having a favorite part, but that doesn't mean you just get to ignore the other parts without consequence. This is no different than that thread a while back where someone wanted the PvP dyes without having to do PvP.
Something will always be most efficient. I don't care whether its grinding, questing or PvP. Or using the dance emote, or riding your horse, IDC. I'll do what I have to do to get what I want out of the game.
"Everything faster and nothing that isn't my favorite!" Is half of what I see on this forum. It makes me sad.1 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
One of my friend has leveled up an alt in about a week during the Christmas holidays (i.e. from level 1 to VR14). He only completed the main quests up to level 50, then farmed the VR at well known grinding spots in Craglorn. He was doing about 2 to 3 VR per day.
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Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fastEdited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 5:46PM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »I can see at least one solution to make sure people will not grind their CP:
- Killing a mob or a veteran mob does not grant any CP at all
- Killing a boss in a dungeon grants some CP
- Completing a dungeon grants CP
- Killing people in Cyrodiil grants some CP
- Completing a quest grants CP (daily or not, PvP or PvE)
This system would be fair for both the people who are still not VR14 and those who are already VR14. It would be fair for both the people who PvP and those who are PvE. And this system would make sure people won't grind anything. Just play the game as it is intended to be played, and you will earn CP progressively and smoothly.
I can see this royally screwing people who have completed all quests as they´d be limited to the amount of daily quests the game would provides them with given they want to progress solo.
Not a good idea imho.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .2 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .
My point was that 64 hours was a mix of everything.
- If I'd spend time just questing it would take more of my time
- If I'd spend time just grinding it would take me less time (There are many good grinding spots even in 1-50)
- If I'd spend more gold for a horse, it would take me less time yes
- If I'd spend mailing everything instead of vendoring, it would take a bit less too
(These 2 things have nothing to do with a direct comparison to grinding / questing progression)
- Crafted set gear though, that is only increasing playtime on my main, not on my AltEdited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 5:55PM1 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Fair enough, that makes sense. How about:heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »
I semi disagree with that. If you grind, typically something against repetitive mobs that's relatively easy, there should be adequate reward for doing it. But it doesn't seem that doing the most simple things should net the best rewards or "be on par" with someone that challenges themselves with more risky ventures.There's nothing wrong with grinding, it just needs to provide comparable XP for time invested.
This of course doesn't mean someone that ONLY quests should get the better experience points either, just to reward folks branching out and doing the hard challenges.
There's nothing wrong with grinding, it just needs to provide comparable XP for time and effort invested.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .
My point was that 64 hours was a mix of everything.
- If I'd spend time just questing it would take more of my time
- If I'd spend time just grinding it would take me less time (There are many good grinding spots even in 1-50)
- If I'd spend more gold for a horse, it would take me less time yes
- If I'd spend mailing everything instead of vendoring, it would take a bit less too
(These 2 things have nothing to do with a direct comparison to grinding / questing progression)
- Crafted set gear though, that is only increasing playtime on my main, not on my Alt
So you're sticking with grinding being 500% faster then questing ? Ok lol0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .
My point was that 64 hours was a mix of everything.
- If I'd spend time just questing it would take more of my time
- If I'd spend time just grinding it would take me less time (There are many good grinding spots even in 1-50)
- If I'd spend more gold for a horse, it would take me less time yes
- If I'd spend mailing everything instead of vendoring, it would take a bit less too
(These 2 things have nothing to do with a direct comparison to grinding / questing progression)
- Crafted set gear though, that is only increasing playtime on my main, not on my Alt
So you're sticking with grinding being 500% faster then questing ? Ok lol
1-49? No.
VR1-VR14? Yes.Edited by Bloodfang on January 14, 2015 5:59PM2 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .
My point was that 64 hours was a mix of everything.
- If I'd spend time just questing it would take more of my time
- If I'd spend time just grinding it would take me less time (There are many good grinding spots even in 1-50)
- If I'd spend more gold for a horse, it would take me less time yes
- If I'd spend mailing everything instead of vendoring, it would take a bit less too
(These 2 things have nothing to do with a direct comparison to grinding / questing progression)
- Crafted set gear though, that is only increasing playtime on my main, not on my Alt
So you're sticking with grinding being 500% faster then questing ? Ok lol
1-49? No.
VR1-VR14? Yes.
0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Can't win a argument / makes up rediculous statistics / presents them as facts
@Despair9 Dude I'm done .
Might as well get a forum name dropping achievement
Just tell me something.
+ Every grinder admits leveling that way is way faster
- But they cry about getting less skillpoints than if they were questing
How many skillpoints do you need for endgame PvE? More than 50?
How is Leveling faster not giving you a big advantage on older content?
You got so many facts, yet dismissed them as they don't favor you. Surely you can't be that blind.
Since you want a explanation , I'll give you this .
Maybe you only use 50 skill points on your template . Mines a lot higher .
Grinding doesn't grant good gear or Quest skill points .
You claim grinding is "5X" faster then Questing XP AND that number is "generous" .
On that claim alone if it took five days to get a VR level questing a grinder would have gotten 5 levels . I've done both and no that's not even accurate .
You're just way off on the impact grinding has .
Yes but people usually grind their alts, and not on their main.
Point is that you don't need every skillpoint there is to compete in the endgame.
Who is that crazy to go collect all ~300 skillpoints for their ALT, just so he can do 1% better in PvE?
The fastest I was ever able to get from 1-50 just by questing was around 64 hours, so lets say, I might be able to quest all the way to VR10 in like 200-250 hours.
Are you saying you need 200-250 hours grinding to get to VR10?
You couldn't possibly throw more variables into this equation . Did you skip dialog in quests ? Did you have a fast horse ? Did you stop to explore while questing ? Did you mail junk or go to a vendor ?
My quest play style maybe faster then yours . I have found grinding to be about 30% faster for myself leveling . Not 5X faster as you stated . I also don't see a impact on other players either .
- Yes I skipped every dialog.
- Fastest horse on alt? Horse yes, but for sure not the fastest one (Imperial horse)
- I did stop for dolmens and delves (Also at times spent some time grinding in them, found it to be much faster than questing).
- I went to a vendor everytime I was full -> Ebonheart (takes 10sec to sell everything, merchant is right at the wayshrine)
- I had crafted set gear for every 10 levels, so I was killing my enemies really fast
Maybe this is why you think grinding is 5X faster then questing .
My point was that 64 hours was a mix of everything.
- If I'd spend time just questing it would take more of my time
- If I'd spend time just grinding it would take me less time (There are many good grinding spots even in 1-50)
- If I'd spend more gold for a horse, it would take me less time yes
- If I'd spend mailing everything instead of vendoring, it would take a bit less too
(These 2 things have nothing to do with a direct comparison to grinding / questing progression)
- Crafted set gear though, that is only increasing playtime on my main, not on my Alt
So you're sticking with grinding being 500% faster then questing ? Ok lol
1-49? No.
VR1-VR14? Yes.
If I'd have time I'd test it just for you
Sadly I don't, so anyone ready to take up to this challenge?3