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Dear Zenimax: We don't all want to quest, we want to Play as We Want.
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pronkg✭✭✭✭Well abusing flaws in game design is An exploit to me as well. Running through crag lorn endlessly killing the bosses outside. They fixed that by lowering the xp gained on bosses and upping the xp gained on mobs. Only thing they should do is provide better rewards on killing bosses like good item drops etc. since there is no other point killing them except initial achievements6 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Facts. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.Here are some facts:
For some. Many others like it. I suppose once you done them with one character, and experienced all the stories, the questing does get a bit old, but... enter the champion system where every alt gets what one character earns. In the end though, the "many" people who really don't care about questing and fast click through all the conversations without caring for the story behind them are most likely playing a different kind of game anyhow...- For many people, questing is boring and useless, you must admit that in any case questing is nothing more than: Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over. Which gets old very very fast.
It's a fact that many people don't care about questing in MMORPGs, especially once they've allready done all the quest. As for playing a different kind of game, we're, once again, playing an MMORPG, where leveling to max is just a way to learn the mechanics and L2P your char before getting to the content that matters. It's people who play the MMOs just for the questing who are playing a different kind of game since once they finish the quests, they got nothing left to do till more quests are added which takes long long long months.TheShadowScout wrote: »
I still hear "gimme the same stuff others play weeks to earn for cheap".- Many people are not in here for the quests, some want to PVP, some want to do end game content, you're forcing those people to waste time questing to VR14 till 1.7 is released and everybody is at level 50.
If you just want PvP, you can have PvP at level 10+. You'll just respawn a lot until you are up to the level of players who spent the time to get to their V14 the hard way. And miss out on all those neat skyshards, but if you manage your skills carefully, you can still be good. And you'll likely take a bit more time getting your levels. But you can have only PvP, and you'll likely amass so many AP you can buy a lot of nifty gear once your level gets there. Impress them all with your big PvPness!
Endgame content is not something you should be skipping the game for. That's kinda like skipping most of a book and going to the last ten pages right away...
And yes, the time until 1.7 is a bit iffy, as playing a vet character now is a bit "oh, look at all the ChP I could have earned" annoyance. Which is why I play my alts to level 49 instead, eagerly waiting for the update that leats me earn extra ChP. And anyone without one V14 will still be compensated for everything they get until then. I fail to see any problem.
Once again, still a fact that many people don't care about questing and I suppose you should go see an ENT specialist if you're hearing we want the same stuff others play weeks to earn for cheap, grinding is tedious, it's repetitive, it's boring, but if you gots to be bored, might as well spend less time at it as possible, which is why people rather grind than quest. Moreover, nobody is forcing you to grind so if you rather quest than grind to "get the same stuff", then that's your problem buddy. Regarding pvp that's utter bull, before getting to max level you're just food for the people at max level, they'll just destroy you on sight, and leveling in PVP is 10x longer than questing or grinding. Moreover, most of the people that only PVP and are at max level grinded like crazy to get there, so now you're saying that new people will have to spend 280h leveling up to catch up to people who grinded the levels in 24h?
End game content is not something I should skip the game for? I'm sorry for having played dozens of generic MMOs like this one and I don't find it interesting to waste time on useless repetitive quests with no flavor and most of all no lasting impact on the world which makes them all feel useless. In any case, it's not for you nor anyone to tell me how I should play a game, especially when it was advertised as a "Play as you want" game.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Funny thing, the champion system helps exactly those people from all I hear... want more? Then spend the darn time to earn it. Yes, that may mean doing all the quests over again to grab all those skillpoints for your new alt, visiting all the places over again for the shyshards. Or just restrict your playing to a main or two, and leave the other alts at lower power levels... you make your choices, you pay your dues...- Many people have already done all those quests on more than 1 character and even though they want a new VR14 character, they don't want to spend weeks doing the same quests they already did 4 times to get to VR14 on their 4 previous chars.
The only thing you do get right is that a lot of people who did spend the time go get several alts to V14 will miss out a bit in the ChP scale. Still better to have them pber-powerful through getting all those possible ChP for each V14. Although, they could have made a scale of dinimishing rewards (First V14 gets 70, second adds 30, third +15, fourth and further each +5, )
It will help them in 4-5 months when 1.7 patch hits. Till then, people at early VR levels will have a wall of time in front of them impeding them to get to VR14 thus discriminating those newer or less dedicated players. Who cares about skyshards books hunting, that's beyond the point since it only takes a day to get them all and you don't need main story skillpoints to build a competitive alt.
It's also good that you bring back to the table the fact that some people already completed the quests, are at VR14 and will have a harder time getting CP than people who haven't done main quest, thus advantaging people who skipped the quests (which plays to my advantage since I've done 0 main quests on my alts but is still pretty damn unfair to some players). Oh and once again, it is a fact that people who have many alts at VR14 don't want to do the boring quests again.TheShadowScout wrote: »
The way -I- hear it, they are not removing and -content- just the veteran ranks. The content is still there, waiting for you if you choose to do it to get all the rewards (soon obsolete levels/Champion Points and skill points mostly, the drops are meh, I give you that... wouldn't it be nice if all the green drops were blue in silver and purple in gold?)Last be not least important:
- You're forcing people to quest from VR1 to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in, thus forcing players to go through the content you're basically removing because it's very unpopular.
And noone is forcing anyone to do anything, they are rewarding those who do it for time spent in the game. There are always people who want shortcuts. Who want stuff but not spend the time to earn it. Who are looking for some way to exploit the rules to get that. I must admit, I have little sympathy for that kind...
People dislike VR ranks because they have to level them, because it's long, because they kept increasing and asking people to grind more or quest more when all they wanted to do was enjoy end game without wasting even more time leveling. Forcing them to quest to get to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in defeats the purpose of removing the VR which was to not force people to waste time grinding or leveling through them. If they want to PVP and be competitive, if they want to clear dungeons like COH or COA or even partake in trials or DSA, they will, in fact be forced to quest to get to max level. It's not about sympathy, it's about fairness, it's about telling people that it's too bad they weren't quick enough or dedicated enough to enjoy the benefits of grinding (which have been going on for months before ZOS changed their mind) and that now they are forced to go the long way to get the same stuff people got quickly.TheShadowScout wrote: »
Sure. Why not remove all quests and just have a game that lets people grind until max level, then PvP? Maaaaaybe because then most of 'em would play some other game if they had to spend hours doing boring repetition to earn their stuff? I know I would...At least with grinding spots everybody has a fair chance.
So you've ran out of arguments and you decide to criticize imaginary propositions that only you are making? Let questers quest, they'll leave the game and unsub until more quests are released anyways and if they want to quest then PVP or quest then do end game content, then at least it's their choice, they won't be forced into it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact here you go btw, I've used the word many, not most, not all, so it is a fact that many people feel as I've described. Just because you happen not be one of them, doesn't mean it's not true.Edited by TehMagnus on January 14, 2015 3:19PM5 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »But, but... I just love to quest!
How can you say I don't want to?
I tried to say "many people" everywhere to leave room for people who like to quest
The problem is the inclusive nature of "WE" in your title, if you had said "I and my Friends" it would have been less controversial. But saying "We" don't want to quest, automatically draws us all in.
But I did get you were trying not to do that.
Edit~It would mess up the length of your title though, and make it awkward to read/say. Oh well, what we need is someone to come up with a word that means us but not everyone.Edited by AlexDougherty on January 14, 2015 12:55PMPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »KhajitFurTrader wrote: »But, but... I just love to quest!
How can you say I don't want to?
I tried to say "many people" everywhere to leave room for people who like to quest
The problem is the inclusive nature of "WE" in your title, if you had said "I and my Friends" it would have been less controversial. But saying "We" don't want to quest, automatically draws us all in.
But I did get you were trying not to do that.
Edit~It would mess up the length of your title though, and make it awkward to read/say. Oh well, what we need is someone to come up with a word that means us but not everyone.
Changed title to "We don't all want to quest" ^^
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Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personally, I quest to level up. I've tried grinding and it bored me to tears in about 30 minutes... BUT, I think it should still be a viable way of leveling up. Now though, it apparently takes an absurd amount of time to level that way.Edited by Lord_Draevan on January 14, 2015 12:57PMI'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »KhajitFurTrader wrote: »But, but... I just love to quest!
How can you say I don't want to?
I tried to say "many people" everywhere to leave room for people who like to quest
The problem is the inclusive nature of "WE" in your title, if you had said "I and my Friends" it would have been less controversial. But saying "We" don't want to quest, automatically draws us all in.
But I did get you were trying not to do that.
Edit~It would mess up the length of your title though, and make it awkward to read/say. Oh well, what we need is someone to come up with a word that means us but not everyone.
Changed title to "We don't all want to quest" ^^
Excellent, that clears up any controversy, and reinforces the bit in your OP where you say many people.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭iam sorry to say ur wrong most people do enjoy questing, plus do you understand that is a big part of an elder scrolls gameMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike5
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xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grinding group mobs in public dungeons will get you 1 vet rank in about 5/10 hours (Maybe less) these days. The 2 hours grinding was an exploit. Grinding 1 to 50 would take somewhere between 30 and 50 hours i guess
I did it in 22h Started on char last saturday and reached VR1 yesterday with /played of 22h yea. Could have been faster. Did all the Main Story quests to 25 in between. Because my grindpartners havnt been online. That took like 2h off effective leveling. 0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »iam sorry to say ur wrong most people do enjoy questing, plus do you understand that is a big part of an elder scrolls game
OP has said many don't want to Quest, not most, there is a difference, a large portion of any MMO are PVPers.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule3 -
kongkim✭✭✭✭✭Prople like you just wish to start at max level and don't play the ret og the game.
Maybe its just the wrong game then.8 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Suggestion: cap the amount of XP working towards champion points at X / hour.
3 different states for a player:
- enlightened: champion points are gained faster for the same amount of XP
- normal
- overcharged: champion points are gained slower for the same amount of XP
This way you're still free to grind to level up skills and abilities, but the amount of XP received from it won't unbalance the Champion System.
Wololo.4 -
pronkg✭✭✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Grinding group mobs in public dungeons will get you 1 vet rank in about 5/10 hours (Maybe less) these days. The 2 hours grinding was an exploit. Grinding 1 to 50 would take somewhere between 30 and 50 hours i guess
I did it in 22h Started on char last saturday and reached VR1 yesterday with /played of 22h yea. Could have been faster. Did all the Main Story quests to 25 in between. Because my grindpartners havnt been online. That took like 2h off effective leveling.
So even much less then i thought. Now i don't understand all The fuss when it's actually possible to be max lvl in about 60 hours. That's really fast if you ask me.
So 60 hours when you grind as hell. 300 hours if you like questing and storyline.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Prople like you just wish to start at max level and don't play the ret og the game.
Maybe its just the wrong game then.
I did play the rest of the game, once, with my main: it was boring.
Moreover, people have been grinding to max level in MMORPGs since the genre was invented, heck, most Korean MMORPGs won't let you reach max level without grinding (which sucks).
For me ESO was perfect on that side. If you liked questing, you had enough quests to allow you to reach level cap, if you didn't like it, you could also grind to cap. Now it's quest or nothing, which come to think of it, is even worse than grind or nothing.Edited by TehMagnus on January 14, 2015 1:23PM4 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They should of never nerfed xp in pvp . That's a area that doesn't effect questers and isn't bypassing intended play .3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Grinding group mobs in public dungeons will get you 1 vet rank in about 5/10 hours (Maybe less) these days. The 2 hours grinding was an exploit. Grinding 1 to 50 would take somewhere between 30 and 50 hours i guess
I did it in 22h Started on char last saturday and reached VR1 yesterday with /played of 22h yea. Could have been faster. Did all the Main Story quests to 25 in between. Because my grindpartners havnt been online. That took like 2h off effective leveling.
So even much less then i thought. Now i don't understand all The fuss when it's actually possible to be max lvl in about 60 hours. That's really fast if you ask me.
So 60 hours when you grind as hell. 300 hours if you like questing and storyline.
You can grind effectively to VR1. After that you gotta do all the quests in all the areas of the two other alliances which takes much more than 60h.5 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've never understood why people whine about being able to level faster then others as long as it doesn't effect their play or flood a zone and bug a quest . It's just the same bad players that want to force their play style on others that get jealous someone's ahead of them again . Even though the same options are there for them too . Big Internet babies that will write a small novel over why everyone should do things their way . Grow up and expand your mind .7 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
The way -I- hear it, they are not removing and -content- just the veteran ranks. The content is still there, waiting for you if you choose to do it to get all the rewards (soon obsolete levels/Champion Points and skill points mostly, the drops are meh, I give you that... wouldn't it be nice if all the green drops were blue in silver and purple in gold?)Last be not least important:
- You're forcing people to quest from VR1 to VR14 until 1.7 kicks in, thus forcing players to go through the content you're basically removing because it's very unpopular.
And noone is forcing anyone to do anything, they are rewarding those who do it for time spent in the game. There are always people who want shortcuts. Who want stuff but not spend the time to earn it. Who are looking for some way to exploit the rules to get that. I must admit, I have little sympathy for that kind...
Yeah, they're not removing their own game's content. The only thing that's going are the veteran ranks at some point. Besides, there will still be a way to judge the 'level' of a character as I've heard they're going to go along the 'WoW-route' with gearscore and all that, and there will be seasonal gear tiers.2 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've never understood why people whine about being able to level faster then others as long as it doesn't effect their play or flood a zone and bug a quest . It's just the same bad players that want to force their play style on others that get jealous someone's ahead of them again . Even though the same options are there for them too . Big Internet babies that will write a small novel over why everyone should do things their way . Grow up and expand your mind .
That's pretty damn narrow-minded. If 2 players spend an equal amount of time playing the game, and player #1's preferred playstyle (read: PvP, questing, grinding or dungeons) gives him a huge XP advantage over the other one, that's going to have a negative impact on the game as a whole.
MMOs tend to have some competition going on in them, so player #2 might feel forced to go do the same thing as player #1 to be able to keep up, despite not enjoying the kind of things player #1 does.
You can see this on a large scale in Cyrodiil, where the current metagame is dominated by VR14s and a lot of people who prefer PvP grind new characters to VR14 so they feel they can actually compete, despite not enjoying grinding in the slightest.
Edited by Valencer on January 14, 2015 2:06PM1 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've never understood why people whine about being able to level faster then others as long as it doesn't effect their play or flood a zone and bug a quest . It's just the same bad players that want to force their play style on others that get jealous someone's ahead of them again . Even though the same options are there for them too . Big Internet babies that will write a small novel over why everyone should do things their way . Grow up and expand your mind .
That's pretty damn narrow-minded. If 2 players spend an equal amount of time playing the game, and player #1's preferred playstyle (read: PvP, questing, grinding or dungeons) gives him a huge XP advantage over the other one, that's going to have a negative impact on the game as a whole.
MMOs tend to have some competition going on in them, so player #2 might feel forced to go do the same thing as player #1 to be able to keep up, despite not enjoying the kind of things player #1 does.
You can see this on a large scale in Cyrodiil, where the current metagame is dominated by VR14s and a lot of people who prefer PvP grind new characters to VR14 so they feel they can actually compete, despite not enjoying grinding in the slightest.
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firstdecan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I never understood this hate against grinding, it just makes no sense.
As was stated, many players either do not enjoy the storylines, or have enjoyed them once and do not want to repeat the experience. Many of these players are in the game for the competitive aspects of it, they want the PvP and end game raiding. Why force them to play the parts of the game they don't enjoy? It simply discourages people from playing.
If you enjoy your questing, no one wants to take that away from you. Questing is a single player experience though, so someone grinding up to max level for PvP and raiding has no effect on the game you're playing. None whatsoever. All the demands to "stop the grinds" are just petty people being petty, it's like being upset that you neighbor has a 50" TV when all you have is a 46" TV.
If you're a "quester" or an "explorer," you're primarily playing a non-competitive game. These aspects of the game are fun, I've personally enjoyed them, but they are non-competitive. what someone else has or has not earned has no bearing on your game . The people interested in end game content, PvPers and Raiders, are more interested in the competitive content. They are playing against other people, or against a performance benchmark (timed trials), and shouldn't be forced to play the non-competitive content they are not enjoying.
I've also seen a number of responses claiming that "if you don't enjoy the questing \ long levelling times in the game, maybe this isn't the game for you." That's a horrible attitude to take, and one that can cost funding for this game. If you enjoy this game and want to see improvements to it (as I do), you want people playing this game and paying their subs. Telling people who aren't enjoying the play experience to go somewhere else will have them do just that, they will take their money and go somewhere else. To keep these people playing and paying, they need the option to do something they enjoy. Taking that away from them for no good reason is absurd, and just petty.10 -
Cyhawk✭✭✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »But, but... I just love to quest!
How can you say I don't want to?
Then go ahead and quest no one is stopping you.
The two methods are not exclusionary, both can exist.
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eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I did play the rest of the game, once, with my main: it was boring.
And other players have done it 2-5 times already. The idea of being forced to do it again, may or may not give them a chronic depression.
But there's more reasons why VR 11+ grind spots are important. You need them to level skill lines. Clearing almost every region in the game will not automatically grant you maxed out skills and threes. It's not enough basic quests to max out all armor types, weapons, guilds, world, class, war and so on.
Another reason is lack of solo content and repeatable quest for VR10+ characters.
I have a VR12 sorcerer for example, was my first char in ESO. That's also why I cleared every quests, dungeon, dolmen in the game on it for achievements in the past. Only a few black spots in upper Crag left.
So how is that character going to reach VR14 w/o a decent grind spot? I only have a few repeatable daily quests available for exp and all of them (besides PvP) needs an organized group. I cant go exp in VR zones, because they're white and completely cleared. So grinding isn't necessarily about skipping content, some characters have next to no content left.3 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭firstdecan wrote: »I never understood this hate against grinding, it just makes no sense.
As was stated, many players either do not enjoy the storylines, or have enjoyed them once and do not want to repeat the experience. Many of these players are in the game for the competitive aspects of it, they want the PvP and end game raiding. Why force them to play the parts of the game they don't enjoy? It simply discourages people from playing.
If you enjoy your questing, no one wants to take that away from you. Questing is a single player experience though, so someone grinding up to max level for PvP and raiding has no effect on the game you're playing. None whatsoever. All the demands to "stop the grinds" are just petty people being petty, it's like being upset that you neighbor has a 50" TV when all you have is a 46" TV.
If you're a "quester" or an "explorer," you're primarily playing a non-competitive game. These aspects of the game are fun, I've personally enjoyed them, but they are non-competitive. what someone else has or has not earned has no bearing on your game . The people interested in end game content, PvPers and Raiders, are more interested in the competitive content. They are playing against other people, or against a performance benchmark (timed trials), and shouldn't be forced to play the non-competitive content they are not enjoying.
I've also seen a number of responses claiming that "if you don't enjoy the questing \ long levelling times in the game, maybe this isn't the game for you." That's a horrible attitude to take, and one that can cost funding for this game. If you enjoy this game and want to see improvements to it (as I do), you want people playing this game and paying their subs. Telling people who aren't enjoying the play experience to go somewhere else will have them do just that, they will take their money and go somewhere else. To keep these people playing and paying, they need the option to do something they enjoy. Taking that away from them for no good reason is absurd, and just petty.
Agree whole heartedly .2 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭I love questing; leveling has seemed to have gotten easier the past few months in my opinion.
I have no idea where the OP is coming from with their "facts," because it certainly doesn't relate at all to the game I've been playing. If one is bored with the current quests, maybe then it is the player, not the game?
But in relation to the "facts" the OP posted,
- I find most quests interesting, there are good amounts of stories and lore in most. I actually find it amazing that they could transform the "Go to A and talk to X then to B, then kill x mobs, deliver quest, get useless item, start over" that EVERY GAME HAS and actually make it enjoyable and give a REASON for why I perform the task(s) in question.
- "Many people" came here for Elder Scrolls and its rich lore. X amount is PvP, Y amount is PvE, Z amount is for anything and everything. Speaking for the community under such false conditions doesn't help you; please, don't speak for other people OP, the "many" you speak of could also most likely translate to people who've been complaining from the start, yet still play the game for some reason and wish to change it for their own personal reasons.
- That is the choice of the player if they wish to roll multiple characters on the same faction. If anything, it should be much easier to perform after having a better idea on what to do, etc.
- What would you have us do from VR1-VR14? I know I've been having fun question, harvesting mats, taking loads of screenshots, enjoying the environments, doing world bosses, dolmens, etc. Recently, I was only VR 6 on my main (had been busy since release and only had X amount of free time [Thanks to my university giving such time consuming assignments haha), but I hit around 25% into VR 11 yesterday. It's a cakewalk without trying unless a player skips most things.
All and all I have to disagree with most of this thread, but respect the OP's opinion on how they see the game.
Edited by Zershar_Vemod on January 14, 2015 2:41PMHouse Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire7 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I don't think the current system is fine anymore . I agree with OP . They need to stop nerfing XP for different play styles .2 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer questing to grinding, but that's probably because I haven't done the same quests half a dozen times yet.
It sounds like they removed an exploit that probably needed to go anyway but the timing was absolutely terrible. As long as we have 14 VR levels of course a significant number of people are going to grind them! We don't know when VR is going away so for the foreseeable future, competitive players need to be at max level.
And then to add insult to injury they change course and tell people who aren't already there they have to have the equivalent of 15 VR levels to get max conversion CP with 1.6 - as opposed to having any vet level character - and almost immediately take away the fastest way to level. I'm sure a lot of people are unhappy over that one.
And don't get me started on how they stealth nerf stuff all the time and don't put it in the patch notes.
I'm a casual not very competitive player but even I am puzzled by recent events. It really seems like ZOS is trying to *** off the entire player base lately.
Hoping when we finally get to see 1.6, there's more good than bad for everyone no matter what your play style is. Good luck everyone.Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think our approaches differ here.I don't think the current system is fine anymore . I agree with OP . They need to stop nerfing XP for different play styles .
You want there to be ways in-game for people to bypass the long time needed to level veteran ranks. I want people to not need to bypass anything in the first place.
Not directed at you specifically:
I don't really agree with the thought that grinding for maximum XP gain is a competitive thing and if you don't want to participate in it you should not hope to compete in PvP or trials. I would hope that is not the underlying design philosophy of the developers. Certainly not the design philosophy of an Elder Scrolls gameEdited by Valencer on January 14, 2015 3:05PM0
