What if block casting were removed? (changes needed to make it okay in PVE)

eseguin · January 2015

Personally i believe if they were no block casting than there would need to be some innate taunt involved in blocking with s&b. We could make a morph of pierce armor that causes all creatures around you to be taunted when you block or even a passive.

Another option is if you block for 5 seconds it taunts, which would make it possible yet more tactical for a dps that has taken agro to block without taunting.

A final option would be to replace the taunt mechanics with one that causes mobs to target the person with the most "threat" and the act of blocking actively build threat over time. I like this the least because it would make it best for tanks to take on bosses with mostly dots to do damage and build threat while you block 24/7.

So, in this what if scenario. What other changes would be neccesary? in pve or pvp?

Aett_Thorn · January 2015

I am personally fine with block-casting. However, it needs to come with a drawback. Right now, there is just no reason not to use it in PvP and PvE content.

How would I balance it? Have it so that while you are blocking, your spell and weapon damage are cut by 50%. Secondary effects of powers stay the same, so that Tanks in PvE can still hold aggro, but it would mean that they do less damage, heals would be reduced, and it would be harder to kill people in PvP if you just hold down block.

Vizier · January 2015

Agreed with @Aett_Thorn‌ but I'd offer a skill passive that would reduce the amount the damage was cut with spent skill points after which the reduction would be about 20%.

It would also only be available while a shield was equipped so the same ability could not be used with 2H, DW or Staff.

Beerbill · January 2015

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

I am personally fine with block-casting. However, it needs to come with a drawback. Right now, there is just no reason not to use it in PvP and PvE content.

How would I balance it? Have it so that while you are blocking, your spell and weapon damage are cut by 50%. Secondary effects of powers stay the same, so that Tanks in PvE can still hold aggro, but it would mean that they do less damage, heals would be reduced, and it would be harder to kill people in PvP if you just hold down block.

Best solution to this problem since there are people who like it, make them choose between defense or offensive power.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2015

eseguin wrote: »

Personally i believe if they were no block casting than there would need to be some innate taunt involved in blocking with s&b. We could make a morph of pierce armor that causes all creatures around you to be taunted when you block or even a passive.

Another option is if you block for 5 seconds it taunts, which would make it possible yet more tactical for a dps that has taken agro to block without taunting.

A final option would be to replace the taunt mechanics with one that causes mobs to target the person with the most "threat" and the act of blocking actively build threat over time. I like this the least because it would make it best for tanks to take on bosses with mostly dots to do damage and build threat while you block 24/7.

So, in this what if scenario. What other changes would be neccesary? in pve or pvp?

That's actually a really interesting work around. Taunting in this game is horrible and this might actually make it less worthless. Block casting is currently one of the things I hate most about this game. The closer this game gets to being like the single player TES games the better.

Chrlynsch · January 2015

Remove block casting for "everyone"... add a S&B passive that adds a taunt to the bash interupt.

Remove 5 piece cost reduction for heavy armor and replace with the ability to block cast.

Keeps block casting as an option for the "tanks" makes heavy armor more viable option for pvp and pve.

Kraven · January 2015

I really like the reduction in power while blocking. TBH tanks don't do much dps to begin with letting block generate threat is also a pretty good idea IMO. With passives that could increase the amount of threat it generates and set bonuses that instead of proc'ing damage proc a taunt...

This doesn't remove block casting for those that depend on it but I think it is a great solution for those that ONLY run in and block cast. A fair trade off.

JLB · January 2015

Ok, really, wait a second there.
You guys really think a tank doesn't do anything else in a fight other than taunting and blocking? Seriously?
Your knowledge about what a tank figure does is pretty amazing.

While you can't spam skills as a tank the way a healer or a DPS can, you actually DO use skills other than taunt all over a fight nonetheless. A lot, actually.
Heals, shields, mitigation buffs, debuffs, support.
Hmmm forgot those? Put down the shield and cast them? Don't make me laugh.
While not all fights require you to constantly block, most of the fights that actually need a tank to do (specially endgame, but also found in many silly veteran dungeons) DO need to keep block up at all times. Those skills you somehow forget are specially needed when there are high spikes of damage, precisely when you CAN'T put your shield down.

The mechanic can't be removed without changing all PvE fights and its mechanics.
What you are asking for, would turn tanks into stupid dummies only able to press the right mouse button 90% of the time.
How nice, way to improve an already limited tanking gameplay.

Let me tell you how I'd "fix" block casting for you:
Ranged PvP debuff skill/set bonus/passive (you name it) available for all classes that makes your damage bypass 50% Block mitigation & makes Block cost 50% more stamina by for X seconds.

You are welcome.

Shunravi · January 2015

JLB wrote: »

Ok, really, wait a second there.
You guys really think a tank doesn't do anything else in a fight other than taunting and blocking? Seriously?
Your knowledge about what a tank figure does is pretty amazing.

While you can't spam skills as a tank the way a healer or a DPS can, you actually DO use skills other than taunt all over a fight nonetheless. A lot, actually.
Heals, shields, mitigation buffs, debuffs, support.
Hmmm forgot those? Put down the shield and cast them? Don't make me laugh.
While not all fights require you to constantly block, most of the fights that actually need a tank to do (specially endgame, but also found in many silly veteran dungeons) DO need to keep block up at all times. Those skills you somehow forget are specially needed when there are high spikes of damage, precisely when you CAN'T put your shield down.

The mechanic can't be removed without changing all PvE fights and its mechanics.
What you are asking for, would turn tanks into stupid dummies only able to press the right mouse button 90% of the time.
How nice, way to improve an already limited tanking gameplay.

Let me tell you how I'd "fix" block casting for you:
Ranged PvP debuff skill/set bonus/passive (you name it) available for all classes that makes your damage bypass 50% Block mitigation & makes Block cost 50% more stamina by for X seconds.

You are welcome.

^ this.

Tarkit · January 2015

I would hate this, it'd make the job of a tank ridiculously easy and you'd have to dodge-roll to cast a skill. I think it brings a genuine challenge to the role of the tank that there's no AoE taunt and i like that

Digiman · January 2015

I usually find it tactless but necessary. Honestly why would ESO waste money on animations if no one will bother trying to see it?

Gorthax · January 2015

LOL at the tears! If block casting WASNT in the game at launch everyone would be ok with how the game was. Since it WAS in the game at launch, everyone got pampered with it and too used to it.

Block casting can go away any day and I will be happy. Speaking from a pvp side of things, it would mean all the garbage permablock caster batswarm/SoM spammers would need to learn to play actually instead of relying on perfect defense with perfect offense and no penalty to either all while holding right click.

I say bring on the changes. ZoS stated they are actively working on a fix for block casting because even they dont agree with it. Even though, 8-9 months and you have no fix? Not even a simple "While blocking all your skills are disabled" you know like EVERY OTHER game. OR! When you activate a skill while blocking, stay with me this is a confusing concept, you DONT get the affect of blocking! *mind has been blown*

f047ys3v3n · January 2015

Only taunts can be cast while blocking. See, problem fixed. Ill be a bit sad regarding the mobs in SO but you could just rebalanced them when you make the changes so we don't all just fall over.

booksmcread · January 2015

With the changes in ultimate generation coming with 1.6, block-casting will become slightly less effective as it will hurt how fast you generate ultimate compared to now. You will no longer gain ultimate from blocking and the only buffs to ultimate generation you will get will be from light and heavy attacks, which you can't do when holding block. So, while block-casting will still be in the game, it will be less effective than it is currently. And, they have said they will make adjustments to block-casting in a future update.

Wolfchild07 · January 2015

If the skill being used is an instant ability, then it SHOULD be able to be block cast, it has no casting time. ZOS may not have foreseen the problems with this, and, if that is the case, then a simple fix would be to give those skills a casting time. Whether that be 1 sec or 0.5 sec, not for me to decide. Animation cancelling for anything else will hopefully be fixed soon.

Digiman · January 2015

I global CD trigger depleting after dropping block or finishing at light attack on skills will fix it.

Soris · January 2015

You should still be able to do block casting like they did in greek/roman and medieval ages in tight formations, BUT your damage must be lowered up to 50% since you can't use your full power to swing a sword/spear

Marthenil · January 2015

Block casting is what's killing tanking for me.

It's so insanely boring. Hold click, taunt, a debuff here and there *yawn*

Just get rid of it period. Even for tanks. Not only would it work, it would make tanking a liittle bit more interesting (Not by much, mind, drastic changes are needed for that but that's a long story)