Guild Recruitment/Kicking Members - is this ethical?

Slurg · January 2015

Got deja vu reading this and realized this poll was from September. I'm curious whether this unnamed guild still exists or if its members bailed on it for one of the many good trade guilds that are happy to keep members who contribute through store purchases and sales, not additional mandatory fees.

LtCrunch · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

If you make donations mandatory they are no longer donations. They become a fee for being part of the guild.

UrQuan · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Slurg wrote: »

Got deja vu reading this and realized this poll was from September. I'm curious whether this unnamed guild still exists or if its members bailed on it for one of the many good trade guilds that are happy to keep members who contribute through store purchases and sales, not additional mandatory fees.

lol yeah, I was surprised to see this thread come back to the front page too

As for the guild, I no longer remember for sure what it was called - there were a few that I was seeing advertised a lot around then, and it was one of those, I just don't remember which. There's one that I think it is, and if it is that one then it's still active. I really don't remember for sure though...

Cody · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

If this guild operates based on weekly gold donations to the bank,then they need to say it when recruiting. Not "kick for inactivity" they need to actually SAY gold donations is what will determine whether or not one gets kicked.

in other words, the recruiter has to tell the truth. If that person has to lie or be sly and deceitful to get a new member, then that guild is not worth being in one of your five guild slots. That is what I think about it. Any guild that acts like this is garbage and not to be joined. I would not waste my time with a guild that approves of their recruiter being deceitful when recruiting.

Fissh · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Not only is this ok, but the person trolling the recruiter in zone chat is the unethical one. Social groups can have the rules they want. If you don't fit in to that particular set of rules....then go away. Trolling person in chat is like going "postal", just more mild.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

why join a guild that imposses its will no way, i joined a guild that has events etc and does not force you to do anything, the guilds moto is fun helping each other even when v14 we help low end players do things, it beggears belief that people would do this if you want to be part of a guild on the eu sever that is friendly and has no crap then go to alitheso.com and apply

WraithAzraiel · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

If there was a point to having gold in the guild bank, aside from buying guild traders in various cities - then I could possibly see a use for that tactic.

Like the purchase of a guild hall or a nifty unlock for the whole of the guild - and you're just sitting there, not contributing, then I could see that practice having merit.

But as it stands there's absolutely no content that would warrant such behavior.

F- for form and decorum.

Layenem · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Would I ever do this? Nope. Not a chance. Is it okay? Why not? It's their guild. You're not forced to guild with them. Find one that fits your style.

Who are we to judge how someone manages their own guild? Now, that's considering that they actually make the rules known to potential members of the guild beforehand. They pay to play the game how they want. They aren't harming anyone by their guild rules, especially considering the fact that you can leave the guild whenever you want. You don't have a right to force them to regulate their guild the way you would prefer it to be regulated, you do, however, have a right to make your own guild.

Cool? No. Okay? Yep. Beauty of a free world.

Cyhawk · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Who cares? If you don't want to be in the guild don't join. If they require donations then so be it, its their choice and you don't have to be apart of it.

Get over yourselves.

UrQuan · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Well, some things never change. Even months after this poll was posted, there are still people commenting on it without bothering to actually read what they're commenting on. You can always count on the internet to react without actually knowing what they're reacting to...

Fissh wrote: »

Social groups can have the rules they want. If you don't fit in to that particular set of rules....then go away.

The poll isn't about whether it's OK to have that rule. It's fine to have whatever rules you want. That isn't in question.

Layenem wrote: »

Who are we to judge how someone manages their own guild? Now, that's considering that they actually make the rules known to potential members of the guild beforehand.

The poll is specifically about whether it's OK to not make those rules known to potential members beforehand. The exact question being asked is about whether it's OK to advertise the policy on kicking someone out as X when it's actually Y.

Cyhawk wrote: »

Who cares? If you don't want to be in the guild don't join. If they require donations then so be it, its their choice and you don't have to be apart of it.

Again, if you had actually read what you're responding to you would find that this isn't about whether it's OK for them to require donations. It's about whether it's OK to be deceptive about guild policies when recruiting.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Guilds have rules. Guilds have to enforce rules.

edit: and make them up on the fly (or need be, when cool)

Iselin · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Anytime you hide something as important as what essentially amounts to a membership fee in your recruiting pitch, yeah it's scummy.

TheLaw · January 2015

It's OK to do this

If you aren't playing for weeks at a time, you're not helping the guild as a whole. Trading guilds need active members to operate a successful guild store. If a particular guild requires donations, that's their policy, don't join if you aren't up for it.

UrQuan · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

And we've got 2 more people who commented and voted without actually reading what the question was for the poll... lol does anyone actually read anymore?

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Guilds have rules. Guilds have to enforce rules.

As it said in the OP and many posts since - it's not about whether it's OK to have a particular rule. The question is whether it's OK to be deceptive about that rule when recruiting.

TheLaw wrote: »

If you aren't playing for weeks at a time, your not helping the guild as a whole. Trading guilds need active members to operate a successful guild store.

If you had read what you're replying to you would know that this not only isn't about having a particular policy for booting players, but even if it was the policy you're describing isn't what the guild in question is doing.

Sheesh, the internet really makes me lose faith in humanity...

TheLaw · January 2015

It's OK to do this

@UrQuan‌ A childish thread topic will do that to a person.

UrQuan · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

TheLaw wrote: »

@UrQuan‌ A childish thread topic will do that to a person.

Asking if people are OK with a particular guild recruitment tactic is childish? OK then... Methinks you're just a wee bit upset that you made a fool out of yourself.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

It's OK to do this

And we've got a thread starter not reading replies in their entirety as well. So what?

Koensol · January 2015

It's OK to do this

The master of the guild has the power to do what he wants. Are false recruitment and policies it ethical? Probably not, but who cares. To be honest, if any guild would do that to me, I'd be happy I got kicked because I don't have to be with such asocial pricks anymore. That's why I only join guilds that have people in it that I know won't kick me for some stupid reason.

Hortator Mopa · January 2015

That's nothing compared to some guilds. I was kicked from a guild because I wouldnt carry a V1 General through a V14 pledge when I needed one more member. (A v12 dungeon however the group members x3 all are V14, He just had a V1 and wanted a free ride.)

Then that same general got me kicked from another guild because he was friends with the guild generals in the other one too.

So two guilds for not wanting to waste time helping some v1 general.

Its the internet, most people will be rude and bad to you. Pick the right people to be around and ignore the rest.

Maybe give them a /ok.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Be glade it's the internet. Most people are rude and bad even to themselves. But at least they can't hurt you on the webs.

SantieClaws · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Doesn't sound like a guild I would want to be part of.

The Imperial Trading Company (EU) is a trading and social guild. We have been around since launch. We remove members if they have been inactive for a long time and have not let us know. This is to make room for new and active members. Just something you have to do if there is a limit on the numbers within a guild. We have a very good forum so it is not too difficult to let us know if you have to be away for a bit.

We don't charge fees. A guild should be a community and you should treat your community with respect. That means not fleecing your fellow guildies.

Hortator Mopa · January 2015

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Be glade it's the internet. Most people are rude and bad even to themselves. But at least they can't hurt you on the webs.

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

I would want to know.

TehMagnus · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Every person manages his guild as he/she sees fit and puts the rules he/she sees fit. Nobody is forcing you to join/stay if you don't agree with them and there are other Guilds to go to.

Is it ok to not tell what reasons are for getting kicked, just part of the game 8), leader is a [snip] so no point in staying anyways.

AngryNord · January 2015

I don't have a problem With Guilds kicking members that haven't been online for months - that seems to be common practice. I don't have a problem With restricting Access to the guild bank for New members for the first days/weeks either (there _are_ People that join Guilds just to empty the guild bank and then quit again). Demanding weekly contributions, especially if they're high, and not being up-front about it, on the other hand...

Djem · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

If you want weekly donations that's fine, but you should state that when recruiting through zone chat. You're already stating you kick offliners, wanting donations is a bigger requirement than that, why not state the donations aswell?

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

Even if you don't state it in zone chat, at least hint at it before kicking by mail or something. I would hate to be kicked for something I did not know about.

Islyn · January 2015

theyancey wrote: »

I am a member of 5 guilds. All kick out inactive members. I support this. If you will be on vacation or some such you notify the guild master.

You are not answering the question that was asked.

WhiskyBob · January 2015

It's OK to do this

Not that they are hurting anyone by kicking them out of a "trading" guild.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

It's not OK to do this

ashlee17 wrote: »

I think the practice of kicking guild members for trivial reasons is very sad, unfair and will reflect poorly on any guild in the long term.

In my guild More Than Fair (another shameless plug) we know that our members willingness to help each other out contributes much much more to the guild then gold ever could.

I think a guild that values it's members will have members that value their guild.

A guild that throws away members, well...

Well we all know what kind of Necromancy you practice don't we dearie?

FWIW, Who would want to be in a shady guild like the fore mentioned guild. I for one have left my fair share of shadily run guilds and I'd rather be guild-less than let their trivial behavior get under my skin again. I say just move on, there's nothing to see here.