Guild advertisement, in-game chat ruined!

Ourorboros · December 2014

Obvious to anyone who has played ESO for any length of time, there are not thousands of guilds advertising at once. But there are some recruiters who spam every few minutes, and then there are those that spam ever thirty or sixty minutes or so. If you have a number of them going at once, it can overwhelm zone chat.

Maybe this was just overstated unintentionally responding to a post, but submitting guild ads at this level of frequency doesn't qualify as spam, IMO. It should barely be noticeable unless all you're doing is reading chat.

OrangeTheCat · December 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

That is simply untrue. Until you have the responsibility of trying to keep a guild full of 500 active accounts, you will never understand how challenging it really is and how much work is involved. We lose 10-15 accounts every single day due to our 15 day inactivity policy.

Don't confuse "disagree" with "untrue" and explain why the methods I mentioned should not work for you.
And if you loose 10-15 members / day maybe you should start wondering if people find what they're looking for in your guild.
And yes I have the responsibility of a guild, but we have a different policy than yours : I try to keep it full of happy friendly members (not necessarily 500) rather than sticking to 500 anonymous IDs.

This is a trading guild I am talking about. In order for it to be successful you need a full roster of active accounts. I'm not talking about people that leave the guild. I am talking about people that haven't logged into the game in two weeks. Hense why I said we lose them due to inactivity policy. I didn't mention anything about quitting. If they are inactive for 15 days, we boot them from the guild. That is actually quite soft compared to most trading guilds that have inactive policies as short as 3 days. 15 days is a pretty clear indication that someone has left the game. There are exceptions of course. If someone is on vacation for example, we will retain them until they return. So yes, in a guild of 500 people, 10-15 are leaving the game daily. Blame ZoS. Don't blame us for just trying to keep our roster full. We have no control over people leaving the game. Luckily for us and for ESO, there seems to be an equal number of people either returning or trying ESO for the first time.

A PvE guild like the one you mentioned can get away with a roster full of inactive accounts. A PvE guild can get away with having only 100 happy members. A trade guild cannot. A trade guild needs a full roster of active accounts in order to succeed.

It would be impossible to find that many people every single day using only the methods you mentioned.

Seriously. You are greatly embellishing this issue that you clearly do not understand.

Quite true. I GM a trading guild since release. I have a 2+ month inactivity kick policy which I consider to be very generous. My guildies seem to be happy with it. But I can tell from the roster that about a dozen or so people in my guild leave the game every day of two. And it's getting worse.

As far as recruiting in chat goes, it works and in most cases it is not spam. Is this your first MMO? "Deal with it" is all I can say.

IrishGirlGamer · December 2014

Ourorboros wrote: »

Obvious to anyone who has played ESO for any length of time, there are not thousands of guilds advertising at once. But there are some recruiters who spam every few minutes, and then there are those that spam ever thirty or sixty minutes or so. If you have a number of them going at once, it can overwhelm zone chat.

Maybe this was just overstated unintentionally responding to a post, but submitting guild ads at this level of frequency doesn't qualify as spam, IMO. It should barely be noticeable unless all you're doing is reading chat.

I would agree one poster posting once an hour doesn't qualify as spam; but when several start recruiting at once, it starts to feel as if that's is all that's in zone chat.

Someone shared with me today a reason that might explain the increase in zone recruiting - and may actually be hurting legitimate recruiting. Apparently there's a movement to start guilds to get the free 500 bank slots. The target is new players and the focus areas are the start zones. The person starting the guild keeps the space for him/herself and spam recruits to keep up the numbers.

According to zone chat - yes, the irony is thick here - it's all the rage.

Demendra · January 2015

The point of this rant wasn't just that one guild particular is spamming numerous advertisements.

Often I find a that a guild will post once and that's it, that's fine, It's not spam.

More often than not though you will find that because this one guild advertised this causes a chain reaction of other guilds.

One guild posts once, then another guild sees that and they don't want a bar of that guild taking there glory, so they advertise over top of them. I've seen this spam the chat for ages with many different guilds doing this, and most of them are only posting once.

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

SFBryan18 · January 2015

Someone told me the /yell command is seen by the zone. If this is true, I wonder why players don't use it for trade and recruitment.

ItsGlaive · January 2015

Totally understand the frustation about chat spam. Sadly though it is undeniably the best recruitment tool we have. We post on the forums, we host in game events, but nothing comes close to the recruitment success of zone chat messages. And given that as a trade guild we need to stay as close to 500 members as possible, it's always ongoing to account for leavers and inactives.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

Demendra wrote: »

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

Dude, It's NOT against the game rules to advertise your guild in Zone chat! So no, we don't think it's ridiculous! We also have to "Put Up With" Undaunted Vet Pledge group requests in a level 20-30 zone now since the undaunted pledges came out and ZOS in their infinite wisdom placed the Undaunted Enclave in a level 20-30 player zone! Go figure!

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2015

A LFM/LFG request is one or two lines. And does not provoke chain reaction. And is part of the social aspects of the game.

A guild recruitment annoucement is 10-15 lines long, interrupts discussions, covers the entire chat screen, provokes chain reaction. See the difference ?

It's just as plain ennoying as TV advertising interrupting the show, or mail advertising cluttering your mailbox. And they ALL say the very same thing (come to us we're so nice and friendly and the best place ingame blah blah...)

And of course we're putting up with it (no choice) but we also have the perfect right to express how much discomfort it causes to us.

Rosveen · January 2015

If you think it's against the rules, report it and let GMs sort it out. I bet $5 nobody will be banned - because guild recruitment is not against the rules, even if it is annoying sometimes.

Do you want to report traders too? And all LFG messages? I'd rather get rid of LFG first, seeing that we actually do have an LFG tool, so it's not like they have to create a whole new system - just fix the existing one (good luck with that, even if they did, everyone already learned /zone is the default place to ask).

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Someone told me the /yell command is seen by the zone. If this is true, I wonder why players don't use it for trade and recruitment.

Every time I've seen a yell, it was from someone in relatively close proximity. I'm not sure it really works as /zone.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And of course we're putting up with it (no choice) but we also have the perfect right to express how much discomfort it causes to us.

Actually, this is the internet. You don't have Freedom of Speech Rights on a privately owned forum like this and repetitive complaint threads can and have been removed for being considered too negative or trolling. Just so you know....

Demendra · January 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Demendra wrote: »

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

Dude, It's NOT against the game rules to advertise your guild in Zone chat! So no, we don't think it's ridiculous! We also have to "Put Up With" Undaunted Vet Pledge group requests in a level 20-30 zone now since the undaunted pledges came out and ZOS in their infinite wisdom placed the Undaunted Enclave in a level 20-30 player zone! Go figure!

Sometimes I feel like people read 2-3 comments then post. Go figure.

So if a chat has multiple people all at the same time advertising there guild, that's not spamming a chat?

Ourorboros · January 2015

Demendra wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Demendra wrote: »

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

Dude, It's NOT against the game rules to advertise your guild in Zone chat! So no, we don't think it's ridiculous! We also have to "Put Up With" Undaunted Vet Pledge group requests in a level 20-30 zone now since the undaunted pledges came out and ZOS in their infinite wisdom placed the Undaunted Enclave in a level 20-30 player zone! Go figure!

So if a chat has multiple people all at the same time advertising there guild, that's not spamming a chat?

When I think of spamming, it's a behavior of one individual repeatedly sending out the same or very similar message. So, no, multiple guilds sending out a single message is not spamming a chat. It's just unfortunate behavior. Instead of trying to change a behavior that is not wrong, maybe try a different tactic, like responding in chat a call to ignore the guilds posting rapidly on top of each other. I haven't seen that, but can see where it could be problematic. Maybe a call to ignore will send a wake-up message to the recruiters, who surely do not want to be on an ignore list.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · January 2015

I much prefer the zone recruiting than the blind recruiting done when you walk into the bank in the starting area. If you are going to invite me to a guild at least ask instead of just inviting me without a word.

Reverb · January 2015

Demendra wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Demendra wrote: »

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

Dude, It's NOT against the game rules to advertise your guild in Zone chat! So no, we don't think it's ridiculous! We also have to "Put Up With" Undaunted Vet Pledge group requests in a level 20-30 zone now since the undaunted pledges came out and ZOS in their infinite wisdom placed the Undaunted Enclave in a level 20-30 player zone! Go figure!

Sometimes I feel like people read 2-3 comments then post. Go figure.

So if a chat has multiple people all at the same time advertising there guild, that's not spamming a chat?

A bunch of different people, each posting something once, is very specifically not spamming.

Artemiisia · January 2015

I see like 3-6 each day, my life is totally ruined, I have no where to go from here, I just cant live with it, think ill call my shrink to talk about my problems now...

/sarcasm might have been used

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

I see like 3-6 each day, my life is totally ruined, I have no where to go from here, I just cant live with it, think ill call my shrink to talk about my problems now...

/sarcasm might have been used

Might have been?? Your not sure if you've been sarcastic or not? OK, moving on....

PBpsy · January 2015

Yes. Those guild recruitment adds are annoying. They really rob you of the enjoyment you get from the general zone chat douchebagerry and asshattery not to mention those intelligent(to be read as moronic) metaphysical ,religious, political discussions that pop up from time to time.

Roechacca · January 2015

It's in every MMO

Zorrashi · January 2015

Zone chat is practically the de facto method of recruitment in this game. With how guild population constantly fluctuating, one-person inviting is hardly a legit method in maintaining guild population in most cases.
And blindly asking strangers to join a guild without asking just seems rude. Not to mention not likely to work given the fact that many people simply abhor the idea of random-guild invite requests.

In this manner zone chat allows guild info to be more available to players, is (generally) seen in a more favorable light in comparison to random requests, and the display of information (i.e type of guild, requirements if any etc.) may even help slightly in attracting players that better benefit the guild.

I know it can be annoying. I know it can be tedious. I know it can be infuriating sometimes too. But given the current avenues of recruitment, what do you expect them to do? Many guild functions are reliant on the amount of members in your guild.

At most you can request a guild channel in chat, or something like a recruitment roster system or something. But banning guilds from zone recruitment? Unless the same guy is posting the same message excessively, there is hardly any reason to make it a punishable offence.

SteveCampsOut · January 2015

Demendra wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Demendra wrote: »

Some of your reaction is "put up with it".

Sounds a little ridicule telling someone to put up with something on a game that's against the games rules, don't you think?

Dude, It's NOT against the game rules to advertise your guild in Zone chat! So no, we don't think it's ridiculous! We also have to "Put Up With" Undaunted Vet Pledge group requests in a level 20-30 zone now since the undaunted pledges came out and ZOS in their infinite wisdom placed the Undaunted Enclave in a level 20-30 player zone! Go figure!

Sometimes I feel like people read 2-3 comments then post. Go figure.

So if a chat has multiple people all at the same time advertising there guild, that's not spamming a chat?

Not if they're not the same person, no. Maybe they don't realize their guildie has posted, maybe they do. But it's not spam unless it's the same person spamming it every 3 to 5 minutes.

Zorrashi wrote: »

Zone chat is practically the de facto method of recruitment in this game. With how guild population constantly fluctuating, one-person inviting is hardly a legit method in maintaining guild population in most cases.
And blindly asking strangers to join a guild without asking just seems rude. Not to mention not likely to work given the fact that many people simply abhor the idea of random-guild invite requests.

It's not just rude, it's a reportable offense since it's an actual option to "report the player" when you click the X next to the invite on your notifications page and that's what I usually do! I can ignore zone chat, or ignore individual players but you can't ignore Popup invites on your screen to join a guild that you didn't ask to join!

Demendra · January 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

I see like 3-6 each day, my life is totally ruined, I have no where to go from here, I just cant live with it, think ill call my shrink to talk about my problems now...

/sarcasm might have been used

This is why immature people should stay out of conversations regarding information that potentially can determine change. If you don't have anything helpful or critical to say, then don't bother posting!

Demendra · January 2015

I started this thread because this was something I noticed a problem within the chat (Being only in the game for a couple of days), I've not ran into a situation like this on a MMORPG before.

I'm not demanding change because I don't like it, I stated an opinion and wanted to see how other people felt about this.

Yes I see there's mixed emotions about this,

Some can put up with it, Some can't and then some who are apart of the advertising infrastructure of there guild have advised they see how It's an issue but there's no real way around it unless ZOS include additional means for guild advertisers. Then of course you've got them that are in this Advertisement infrastructure that will advise there's no problem.

Either way It's clearly been addressed by a number of people that this is an issue, is there a way this can be changed for better? Possibly, possibly not.

It's up to us as the community to discuss these things and come up with ways to deal with a potential issue. ZOS aren't able to come up with every single matter and fix it at once, but they can see when a number of the community are discussing something and creatively coming together and making suggestions on how to improve this.

Razzak · January 2015

Why is it ruined? There's barely any general chat as it is.
But, I understand that some don't want to see them, especially if they are already in 5 guilds. The best way would be to have all LFG, guild invites, trade calls and similar structured messages in a separate chat box.

Nestor · January 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Someone told me the /yell command is seen by the zone. If this is true, I wonder why players don't use it for trade and recruitment.

The radius is /say then /yell then /zone

Not sure what the distances are, but /yell is not zone wide. More than likely you have to be in visible proximity (not necessarily line of site but close enough to see them if the wall was not there for /say. I am not sure how far away /yell is, because I have only seen one of these in zone chat.

The whole guild recruitment spam just about goes away in the VR Instances, I only really notice it in the leveling instances. Not that it does not occur in the VR instances, it just happens a lot less. Its more LFGs than anything else, with some wts/wtb thrown in.

Ourorboros · January 2015

Demendra wrote: »

I started this thread because this was something I noticed a problem within the chat (Being only in the game for a couple of days), I've not ran into a situation like this on a MMORPG before.

I'm not demanding change because I don't like it, I stated an opinion and wanted to see how other people felt about this.

Yes I see there's mixed emotions about this,

Some can put up with it, Some can't and then some who are apart of the advertising infrastructure of there guild have advised they see how It's an issue but there's no real way around it unless ZOS include additional means for guild advertisers. Then of course you've got them that are in this Advertisement infrastructure that will advise there's no problem.

Either way It's clearly been addressed by a number of people that this is an issue, is there a way this can be changed for better? Possibly, possibly not.

It's up to us as the community to discuss these things and come up with ways to deal with a potential issue. ZOS aren't able to come up with every single matter and fix it at once, but they can see when a number of the community are discussing something and creatively coming together and making suggestions on how to improve this.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but your last paragraph is naive. I mean that in the most pleasant way. I admire the sentiment, but this forum is filled with wonderful suggestions that are mostly ignored and unacknowledged by ZOS. It would be nice if the forum really DID make a difference, but let's just say that it hasn't happened yet. As to your thread issue, whether people think it's a problem likely depends on if they use guilds or not. I'm in five myself, but not always the same five. Guilds fail, and often those guilds ads are the best way to find new guilds.But I can see the annoyance factor for those with no guild interest.

Razzak · January 2015

Nestor wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Someone told me the /yell command is seen by the zone. If this is true, I wonder why players don't use it for trade and recruitment.

The radius is /say then /yell then /zone

Not sure what the distances are, but /yell is not zone wide. More than likely you have to be in visible proximity (not necessarily line of site but close enough to see them if the wall was not there for /say. I am not sure how far away /yell is, because I have only seen one of these in zone chat.

The whole guild recruitment spam just about goes away in the VR Instances, I only really notice it in the leveling instances. Not that it does not occur in the VR instances, it just happens a lot less. Its more LFGs than anything else, with some wts/wtb thrown in.

What is the radius of "/say"?

Nestor · January 2015

Razzak wrote: »

What is the radius of "/say"?

Like I said, I think you have to be able to see the other character, or be close enough to see them to /say something to them. It would be interesting to test this, but I am at work right now.

Ourorboros · January 2015

What is the radius of "/say"?

PiRsquared!

Wait, Pie are round.....nvm

The_Great_Maldini · January 2015

You can make a chat tab that filters out zone chat. This way you can focus on private conversations when needed. Zone/public chat is unfortunately like this is most MMOs for recruiting/advertising/selling.

Razzak · January 2015

Nestor wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

What is the radius of "/say"?

Like I said, I think you have to be able to see the other character, or be close enough to see them to /say something to them. It would be interesting to test this, but I am at work right now.

Thanks.

One of the things I like the most about ESO is the view distance. Often I stand on top of some elevation and look at my surroundings. I am still amazed at how far I can see and how many details of a fight that is happening far away in a valley bellow me, is clear as if they were standing right next to me (slight exaggeration).
I will have to test this with someone.