Kraven wrote: »

It just doesn't add up to make any sense at all. No matter how you slice it. Previously it took substantially more than it currently does to go from V1-V14, even now you're looking at 14m xp erased. Plain and simply erased as if you never earned it at all.

Undaunted passives weren't the first but they're the most recent example of straight inconsideration for those of us who play more. This CP fiasco following right on the heels of that isn't just showing a lack of consideration but an out right dismissal of a large portion of players.

The equalization is the issue. We are not equal. We are not equal because I already spent the time doing all of that content. The time I spent, the xp I earned, the content I completed and the achievements I've gotten are being ignored and erased. Where a new V1 is going to be rewarded for doing everything I have already done, the reward I earned is being erased and removed.

You expect people to be happy about that? To just "deal with it"?

I would like to point out to the people saying V14 armor is the difference. If me at level 50 with 30 cp can equip what was previously V14 armor then so can every V1. Level 50 with 30cp = level 50 with 30cp. You need to find a different argument. I have a crap ton of V14 armor ready to throw on my V1 alts when the change comes, and some ready to go up on the guild stores.

If a V14 playing right now said "I'm tired of this crap!" and quit playing. Then IF he came back after the vet ranks were removed, by all accounts he is suppose to be able to do exactly what he is able to do today. So that V14 in V14 gear who runs DSA and CoA on a daily basis, if he comes back as a level 50 with 30 cp is suppose to be able to do that exact same content. Meaning level 50 with 30cp equals V14 no matter how you slice it, equalization is raising those at V1 and lowering those at V14 onto a level playing field.

It's passing out a loaf of bread for dinner whether you're a doctor, a secretary, a laborer or unemployed everyone gets this same one loaf and only one loaf.

Grao wrote: »

I guess ZoS are communists!

Lost in the irony of your signature's request to "Keep it constructive please."

If they told us (as they did) that we should keep playing..they would track our xp and it would not be lost - that they didn't know what that cap would be but we would probably never reach it..to encourage us to not stop paying and wait for the champion system, can we get a refund from the time it was announced that they would track XP and reward us to now? Seem they used false advertising to get us to continue to pay for monthly service.

There are those who say that players complain too much in the forums. That may be true at times but in my opinion there are times when a potential issue needs to be highlighted by the sheer number of comments on it. If there was only one comment on this thread ZOS would likely not even notice.

My personal thoughts are that giving everyone the same CP is going to annoy a lot of folks, except perhaps those who are new to VR. Having played the same characters since launch I'd be a little annoyed if I receive the same amount of CP as someone who has played for 3 weeks and had just attained VR1. It would feel like a slap in the face. If that's their plan though I'm just going to move forward from there. I still enjoy the game.

Ohioastro wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why are so many people missing this very simple concept?

Cause they don't think it effects them in a negative way at all. Most of them aren't or wont get to end game to be effected by decisions like this.

If 30 CP makes my characters have the same power as they did at VR14 I lose nothing. If I've done all quests and don't like gaining exp in other ways it doesn't matter whether I have 30 CP or 3,000 CP; I'm done with the things that I like to do in the game. People can understand the points involved perfectly well and disagree with them.

How is the time and effort to gain XP not a net loss if everyone is getting the same thing regardless of effort?

Guppet wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »

Hello Folks,
We have moderated this thread for a second time. We would like to let this thread continue as your concerns are important to us, but baiting and insults are not permitted on the forums. We also ask that you remain on topic of the thread, and not stray to side conversations.
Thank you for understanding.

But still no answers to our concerns! ^^

They have answered a few times, but people just don't like the answer.

It's like my 5 year old daughter when she is wanting sweets. Can I have something? No. Can I have something? No. can I have something?

Actually it's more like giving your daughter a cake and then her sister walking into the room and taking away the cake and giving them each a cookie. A small cookie.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Morshire wrote: »

Where is the openness they swear by. Open dialog looks something like we are attempting here.

Open dialogue ? You call this open dialogue ?

It 's not hard to understand why they shut up and will keep shutting up. Because whatever they say, even the slightest info, will lead to an avalanche of drama reactions such as the ones we've seen so far regarding the "30 CP" and other sensitive topics.

- Yeah ZOS I like that idea / ZOS I've got better ideas / Oh that's crap ZOS you're so incompetent (+ endless fights between the three groups)
- ZOS why don't you (whatever) ?
- WHAT ?? IT's not what you said before, you're liars, I unsub...
- I know what's best for the game, anybody else is an idiot
- Etc, etc...

Players want the game to evolve / expand but at the same time refuse changes.

ZOS is thinking / developing / testing and want to keep open the opportunity of changing their mind. Players seem to refuse that very basic right.

That's why open dialogue is impossible.

no one is complaining about the the new system to replace VRs (the evolution in question), only that compensation for game time with regard to their experience tracking. it doesn't make sense why they would do this sort of bait-and-switch.

the long winded version:
most players i have seen (myself included), wouldn't have unsubbed between oct 3rd and CS release, we would have just played and focused on other aspects of the game. when i heard they were releasing the CS, my first instincts were to play my alts to follow the other versions of the "red-text" quests i already did. when they said they were tracking experience, i dusted off my main and started playing again some. now my main is losing his VRs and that experience, and all they can say is "it's for the greater good". this has been mathematically proven shaky at best, some claim its flat false. i say its meaningless banter because the "greater good" will last about 2 weeks before being rendered meaningless. so they shot themselves in the foot for the "greater good" for no reason, and the ones that kept playing their mains, get the bulk of the punishment financially and time-wise (you can't get a refund for your life).

they can claim they are making dungeons and PVP more viable for experience, but there is one glaring variable- players. PVP will probably NEVER be viable for experience- the ebb and flow of player trends (quantity/quality/etc) will prevent this. the same could be applied for dungeons, with less issues in my opinion, because you have more control over whom you group with and fight against. this leaves PVPers forced to play PVE a lot more to grind out CPs. before you just had to do VRs (easier since it is a set destination) and find skyshards (by far easier than grinding out CPs) and certain quest chains specifically for skill points, which you could find via spoiler sites. in some respects you didn't HAVE to get all those skill points, just when you needed something you go out and seek these opportunities out. if they place the proper improvements to the LFG tool (in other words put in place a queue system) the dungeon delvers can then world PVE while in queue, and not miss a beat for dungeon opportunities. this puts "the grind" in the hands of PVPers, leaving the rest saying "meh".

with the above said, it could be that they saw that PVEers would "out power" true pvpers so much, that they would be rendered impotent despite their significant amount of skill of say, me who has only kinda-sorta-pvped so far. i say this because, realistically, they shouldn't be worrying about a power disparity between PVEers, since all that does is make dungeons/grinds/farming easier and more likely time to be spent in-game with a subscription than no-subscription. i will say that this is based on "the math" but not really focused on reality. i am willing to bet, most PVPers at/below my level could very well take me on effectively despite a power gap. not to mention, CPs won't convince me to PVP anymore than gear/levels/whatever; it will still be based on my ADD play-style/friends/boredom/an opportunity to gamer-rage. also the "power difference" can be rendered moot by the fact this is alliance versus alliance PVP- i will have 100 CP, where a pvper has 50 CP, but we are on the same side so we will work together for the objective. same can be applied to our foe, which gives balance to the system much in the same way as it does in PVE. in PVE my increased power helps the group through dungeons/slayer achievements/dolmens/whatever. we will still be a team but never a "equal" team stat wise.

so now we want to know "why"....

Grao wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

I guess ZoS are communists!

Lost in the irony of your signature's request to "Keep it constructive please."

Hey, I said keep it constructive on the other post, not here. Anyway, that was written days ago, when I believed ZOS would answer us by Monday.

From constructive I turned to bitter after seeing Gina post in several different subjects since the weekend, but nothing here. My bitterness is expressed through sarcasm, snipes at ZoS, etc. I think it is an acceptable state of mind, considering this mess.

welcome to club sarcasm. we don't have jackets or patches or anything, but we tend to keep each other entertained none the less

Ohioastro wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why are so many people missing this very simple concept?

Cause they don't think it effects them in a negative way at all. Most of them aren't or wont get to end game to be effected by decisions like this.

If 30 CP makes my characters have the same power as they did at VR14 I lose nothing. If I've done all quests and don't like gaining exp in other ways it doesn't matter whether I have 30 CP or 3,000 CP; I'm done with the things that I like to do in the game. People can understand the points involved perfectly well and disagree with them.

No, because you would understand that the CP is the point. If we don't have those quests to do because we already did them with the understanding it would count, it's going to be a lot more difficult for a V14 than a V1 who has 2 factions worth of content ahead of them. Is this seriously that difficult to grasp? I really can't explain it any more plainly.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.

What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).

Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!

There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.

You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.

They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.

The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.

What benefit? Please tell us specifically what benefit.

You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 1 (this initially said VR 50, but anyone should know what was implied) to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.

Reading comprehension is your friend! My Main has just over 300 skill points, my VR 2 had 110, that's a massive difference and enables my main to fulfil any role at all (I have a VR8 crafter too, so my main does not need to have any crafting skills), without a need to repec, he also has all skills maxed and their morphs. That's very very beneficial.

Ahhh, it is refreshing to see that after being moderated so much I cannot even find my old comments, then walking away in utter frustration at ZOS for the continued display of silence, that people are still hotly debating this. Now not all the comments are new arguments (expected because not all of us can get here every day) but I have had a couple of laughs today, a *facepalm*, and an "Oh no you didn't" moment.

I am curious about one thing, ZOS still hasn't changed their stance, at least to us, about what the plans are....meaning no plan to change coarse for CP. AND, people still feel the same way they did when ZOS turned the knife in the backs of "hardcore gamers". Why, are we back to name calling and mudslinging?

FACT: People are mad about CP, ZOS isn't changing stance, people are going to stay "mad". (In quotes so no one flames me, insert your feeling here may have been better) So we are childish, selfish, immature, ungrateful, cry babies who "expect" too much? Am I missing anything?

So the crying about housing, or cloaks, or "You nerfed my..." are not? The planned CP frustrates me, the lack of attention from ZOS is frustrating, and the price of gas dropping makes me happy. If you are happy with the game, then why the heck are you (meaning whoever wants to apply this) bashing people for their opinion? Is it "utterly selfish" to voice an opinion about something that is important to us? Or is it "utterly selfish" of you dissenters to think that people won't bend to your "casual" way of thinking?

IMHO: (Read with caution, you were warned)
I say this to no one person in particular. It just boggles my mind that people continue to think that they can make people happier about the game by telling them to "shut up and quit complaining". Yeah, that always works.

It's not "shut up and be happy with the game"... it's "you're not happy, we've got it, you've said it in hundreds of posts, threads and ways, you see it doesn't change a thing and if it did it would not be right now, so please give it a rest".

Some of you really sound like babies who'll cry loud believing it will obtain them what they want. Ears hurt after a while.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It's not "shut up and be happy with the game"... it's "you're not happy, we've got it, you've said it in hundreds of posts, threads and ways, you see it doesn't change a thing and if it did it would not be right now, so please give it a rest".

Some of you really sound like babies who'll cry loud believing it will obtain them what they want. Ears hurt after a while.

Well it shows you are listening which should count for something. But I need to ask, how many people have you actually "heard" talk about this? And if your "ears" hurt, then why would you enter a thread that clearly says, "Welcome to TESO, the only game that penalizes people who play the most." (I mean seriously, you were blindsided by what that possibly could mean?) Lastly, if your "ears" hurt, maybe, just maybe, this is getting through to everyone, including ZOS, and maybe they will..........?

Don't discount people's opinions because you don't agree or you are tired of reading it. Stop reading these threads, move on, and let us voice our complaints in peace. Just saying, you don't get brownie badges for defending ZOS. And maybe ZOS will ignore our complaints, doesn't mean they have to stop being made because someone else doesn't like it.