dharbert wrote: »

Invigorating Drain - I don't have exact numbers for you, but it builds Ultimate very fast. The longer you drain a mob, the more ultimate you build. It can be cancelled by hitting block, but you won't gain the full amount you would have had you let the full animation run it's course. It's useful in PvP because it's a form of hard CC that can't be rolled out of or blocked.

Devouring Swarm - Like any other AOE, it currently hits 6 mobs/players.

Thank you for the information!

Cuyler wrote: »

Was infected, got rid of it. Too much fire damage for vet dungeons, trials, and DSA for my liking. I didn't want to take up my jewelry slots for fire resist. Devouring swarm was the only skill I was using and my NB has veil of blades which is arguably a better ult. Also can be picked out of a crowd in Pvp with evil hunter. All in all not enough of a gain for what I was losing. My NB was squishy enough and now enjoys not having to mitigate fire damage as much.

Edit: Reminds me I need to update my sig.

About fire resist jewelry... I have like 3,000 points of fire resist but my understanding is that fire will do 50% more damage to me regardless. So exactly how much help IS fire resist jewelry and at what point are you just wasting points in it?

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Was infected, got rid of it. Too much fire damage for vet dungeons, trials, and DSA for my liking. I didn't want to take up my jewelry slots for fire resist. Devouring swarm was the only skill I was using and my NB has veil of blades which is arguably a better ult. Also can be picked out of a crowd in Pvp with evil hunter. All in all not enough of a gain for what I was losing. My NB was squishy enough and now enjoys not having to mitigate fire damage as much.

Edit: Reminds me I need to update my sig.

About fire resist jewelry... I have like 3,000 points of fire resist but my understanding is that fire will do 50% more damage to me regardless. So exactly how much help IS fire resist jewelry and at what point are you just wasting points in it?

Good question...I'm not exactly sure. I've heard people say that 2000 pts of fire resist is sufficient but I've never truly tested it myself. I just had two rings I enchanted to have 2000 pts of resist. Didn't seem to help me that much compared to the damage I was losing (Dominion Signets, +10% weapon damage). I always just kind of went by trial and error, for example try a dungeon without vamp then with it and just feel out the difference.

I'd have to try wiping to a boss with a lot of fire damage to see the death recap for an exact number. Maybe Yokeda Kai, when he splits into the four mages there is a lot of fire damage. I'd say if you can mitigate 3-4 fire balls from those guys your doing better than most.

EDIT: In terms of wasting points in fire resist, again I wouldn't know until tested to see the most damage needed to be mitigated.

vamps incoming fire dmg is multiplied by 1.5 and then the usual calculation of resistence follows.

normal player: dmg*(1-fire resistence)=inc dmg
vamp player: dmg*1,5*(1-fire resi)=inc dmg

ie 30% fire resi and 1000 dmg

normal: 1000*(1-0,3)=700
vamp: 1000*1,5*(1-0,3)=1050

so fire resi is very usefull for vamps but no matter how much fire resi u stack a non-vamp player will get less dmg with same resi value

Please help me figure out exactly how vampires work now.

Well,

my dear Morna, I met an old wise men many moons ago, he told me a story about Vampires and I am very happy to tell you that story now.

The old men said,

I only heard rumors as I never met one myself. But said rumors say, that you can only become a Vampire if you are bitten by one, yet not killed in the process.
You will then wake up naked, not having any heart beat left, but a huge demand for blood. To now feed, you will need to find yourself a target, especially young ones are suited best so I heard. Their blood is fresh and tasty, don't go for old grunts - their blood is thick and tastes like old eggs.

The old men also mentioned how Vampires feed, he said

To milk your victim, hammer your teeth into their necks, arms work as well so I heard. You can also get fresh blood in hospitals, however you never know through whom it flowed before.

At the end he added some more details about the circumstances that they live in.

The life as a Vampire in general, isn't so bad. You need to hide yourself from the Sunlight, holy crosses, sacred water and garlic are voodoo though. As a Vampire you usually sleep at day and come out at night. Only very few can fly, many however travel on ships, so I heard. Vampires can not breed life, so having a baby doesn't work.

He also gave me some pictures, which after his opinion show Vampires.



Another



I also have this old drawing by a Khajiit, who claimed to be bitten by one in his tail



More I don't know. The old, wise men suddenly disappeared into the night after the boat reached the harbor and I never saw him again.

Maybe I could be of some assistance to you, travel save and far Morna!

MornaBaine wrote: »

Govalon wrote: »

I think you are wrong about cost reduction. It is not 20% from each stage and if I recall correctly, it is something like 21% TOTAL when you are at stage four. So like 7% from each stage? I am just saying what I remember.

Well darn! I really want to know which it is! Why is there no official ZOS info on this? We really shouldn't have to guess.

Cost reduction was something like 60% at last stage but they nerfed it into oblivion because sorcs abused bat swarm. They could just have fixed sorcs but they rather broke vampires for some odd reason.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Govalon wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Govalon wrote: »

I think you are wrong about cost reduction. It is not 20% from each stage and if I recall correctly, it is something like 21% TOTAL when you are at stage four. So like 7% from each stage? I am just saying what I remember.

Well darn! I really want to know which it is! Why is there no official ZOS info on this? We really shouldn't have to guess.

Cost reduction was something like 60% at last stage but they nerfed it into oblivion because sorcs abused bat swarm. They could just have fixed sorcs but they rather broke vampires for some odd reason.

Hmmm... there must have been patch notes on this at some point I'm thinking. I'd give a shiny new penny to the person who can find them!

Yea back then you could get your swarm down to 4 ult if I recall correctly.

That was fixed in 1.07

It caps now at 21% but seriously it is still very powerful because cost reduction stacks with sets, and class skills.

As for your question about PvP, yes vampires do very well. With blocking and resist gear the bonus fire damage doesn't really bother vampire's too much, and there honestly isn't enough player fire damage to have to worry about it unlike PvE.

Swarm continues to be one of the best ultimate's in the game hands down, easily countering any fire problems the vampire may have. With the right gear and phase 4 vamp you can easily end a swarm and just about be ready for another one when it's done. Vampires are no longer the I-win button that they used to be with stacking swarms that cost less than 30 ultimate, but they are in no way in a bad place in PvP.

Mist form got a well needed though a little heavy handed nerf. But you still see it on the classes that dont have great escape options. It's still fast, you are still invulnerable, and it still costs very little mana. In other words only NB and Sorcs dont need it, but only because they have class options that are as good or better in some specific way. For example Bolt escape is faster, but the sorc is not invulnerable, Many a bolt escaping sorc can tell of the time they were charged, or pulled or smacked with a spell when they were trying to get away and killed. So some run both but bar space is limited.

Lastly for PvP, vampire slayers do not have to slot anti vampire skills anymore to kill them either, It was problematic when it worked like this because either you had to be a vampire slayer build or you couldn't kill them at all. Meaning there were basically 2 builds in PvP, Vampires, and Vampires with slaying abilities. It was bad. So in general no one complains anymore because Vampires are on the same level as a non vamp, just different.

So there is a good reason to be a Vampire. It's just not the no brain choice it was before.

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

vamps incoming fire dmg is multiplied by 1.5 and then the usual calculation of resistence follows.

normal player: dmg*(1-fire resistence)=inc dmg
vamp player: dmg*1,5*(1-fire resi)=inc dmg

ie 30% fire resi and 1000 dmg

normal: 1000*(1-0,3)=700
vamp: 1000*1,5*(1-0,3)=1050

so fire resi is very usefull for vamps but no matter how much fire resi u stack a non-vamp player will get less dmg with same resi value

The operation of multiplication is commutative.

Therefore it doesn't matter when the additional damage is applied.

1000 * 1.5 = 1500
1500 * 0.7 = 1050
as well as
1000 * 0.7 = 700
700 * 1.5 = 1050

The only thing that matters is whether or not the weakness and the resistance are applied in one or in two multiplication operations. Both applied at the same time would work like this:

base-damage * (1 - resistance + weakness)

For the given example:

1000 * (1 - 0,3 + 0,5) = 1000 * (1,2) = 1200

Now since 1050 < 1200 it is a good thing (for the vamp) that the weakness and the resistance are applied separately.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Active Spells:
Clouding Swarm – Also grants you additional invisibility. (How much additional invisibility?)


Passive Abilities:
5. Unnatural Resistance – Health recovery is improved in Vampirism stages 2 through 4. (This seems to be in direct contradiction with the information on Stage Timers above which state that health recovery goes DOWN the higher your Stage, not up. So which is it?)
6. Dark Stalker – Increases your movement speed while sneaking and allows you to enter stealth more quickly at night. (How much more quickly? What is the percentage?)

Additional questions:
Lastly, I do not intend to drop vampirism as it is a large part of who my character is. However, for those of you who HAVE dropped vampirism, can you please explain in detail your reasons for that decision? Thank you.

I'll be honest, the Clouding swarm seems cosmetic to me. At least in PvE. Enemies still attack without any deterrence. Your actual char model becomes invisible, but from everything I can tell, your bats are still visible. Basically, no effect noticeable in PvE and I imagine in PvP, people would just aim for the circle of bats >.>

Unnatural Resistance is a direct contradiction for a reason. Basically this passive is there to offset the penalty to health regen. I didn't look at the difference between each rank and stage numerically, I might if we get skill resets in 1.6. Hypothetically speaking at say stage 4 rather than -75% health regen you would have like -25% health regen.

The Dark Stalker passive increases your speed I believe by 50%. Basically you sneak at your normal move speed. Used to be you could use Nights armor set for an extra 60% or so, but IIRC they nerfed it so the two bonuses don't stack.

I haven't dropped vampirism on my one char with it, but I may depending on how 1.6 works out. My vamp is a Nightblade that is full magicka Assassin/Shadow on one bar, Siphon on the other more or less. As such it works out that the magicka regen helps keep him stabbing and the stamina regen lets me move longer in stealth with bonuses also from him being khajiit and Shadow.

I think in 1.6 though they're supposed to finally fix it to where some class skills rely on stamina instead of magicka which would entirely botch what he has going on. but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Active Spells:
Drain Essence - Stuns target for 3 seconds and deals magic damage to it, while recovering 150% of the damage dealt as health and stamina to you every 1 second.
Invigorating Drain – Also recover Ultimate. (How much, how fast?)

Midnight Drain – Recovery is more effective at night. (Exactly what is the percentage difference?)

Mist Form- You take 75% reduced damage from all sources and are invulnerable to healing and crowd control effects for 3 seconds.
Elusive Mist – Increases your movement speed in mist form. (I know the speed was nerfed on this considerably and that Bolt Escape is FAR faster now. I'd like to know HOW FAST you can actually move in Mist Form now)
Poison Mist – Damages nearby enemies. (How much?)

Bat Swarm- Summons a swarm of bats dealing damage to all enemies around you.
Clouding Swarm – Also grants you additional invisibility. (How much additional invisibility?)
Devouring Swarm – Gain life for every enemy hit. (How much additional life? How many enemies can be hit at once?)


Passive Abilities:
1. Savage Feeding – After feeding your target is off-balance and stunned for 2 seconds.
2. Supernatural Recovery – Increases magicka and stamina recovery by 5%.
3. Blood Ritual – Allows you to turn another player into a Vampire once every 7 days, giving them the Vampire skill line.
4. Undeath – Increases damage mitigation by up to 50% when you are below 30% health.
5. Unnatural Resistance – Health recovery is improved in Vampirism stages 2 through 4. (This seems to be in direct contradiction with the information on Stage Timers above which state that health recovery goes DOWN the higher your Stage, not up. So which is it?)
6. Dark Stalker – Increases your movement speed while sneaking and allows you to enter stealth more quickly at night. (How much more quickly? What is the percentage?)

Additional questions:
How effective/useable is Drain Essence in PvP?
Is it worth keeping ANY of your vampire abilities on your bars in PvP or are other abilities better? For me specifically, my vampire is a Sorc and a Breton primarily in light armor.
Is Bolt Escape better to have than Elusive Mist in PvP?

Lastly, I do not intend to drop vampirism as it is a large part of who my character is. However, for those of you who HAVE dropped vampirism, can you please explain in detail your reasons for that decision? Thank you.

MornaBaine wrote: »

About fire resist jewelry... I have like 3,000 points of fire resist but my understanding is that fire will do 50% more damage to me regardless. So exactly how much help IS fire resist jewelry and at what point are you just wasting points in it?

As already mentioned, max deduction is 21% at stage 4. That being said, Swarm is still cheap in regard to ultimate and gives you AoE damage that heals you. Sometimes the damage ticks coming in, the healing ticks coming in, and the damage ticks going out don't always sync right, so don't automatically assume you'll live in the middle of some nastiness (esp in laggy areas)

Being AoE, it should be limited to 6 targets (by their own design).

Myst form, it's 'slower' than Streak, but it lasts longer, so you will actually cover more distance per magicka. You also used to continue to regen Magicka, just not Health while mysting. You no longer get regen of either kind during the form.

You can't get knocked out of Myst form anymore - Streak can be CC'd (Encase, for instance) and used to be blockable.

Personally, I think you should be immune to ground AoE while in mystform. I also think you should basically be immune to collision around objects. (I'm a cloud, how can I possibly not fit between two people or get hung up on a rock?)

Mystform used to give the speed bonus and you could still 'sprint' which made it effective as an exit strategy. Now you simply get the 30%, which effectively makes it a Sprint that uses Magicka as a resource instead of stamina.

Unnatural Resistance is semi-pointless. Having your HR go from 8 to 10 will never be the difference between living and dying in a fight. Plus, at stage 4, all HR is reduced 75% (this includes gear bonuses ~ which makes the Vampire set pointless for those it was named after)

Bolt escape better for reasons mention above - MF is no longer an exit - all it will do is ensure you are out of Magicka when someone with plenty of stamina does catch up to you.

Drain is situational. Catch someone alone, it's usable. Grouped, you're getting beat on by the other 3 guys and taking more damage than you're going to heal for,

The thing I do hear about, if you can pull it off, is feeding in PvP. You have to be hidden, and you get no benefit from it (other than reduced stage, if you consider that a benefit.), but unlike Drain Essence, the target is stunned for the duration (non-CC breakable).

Your 3 friends are free to beat on the person being fed on.

Obviously, this won't happen often in combat situations, multiple group member situations, other vamps, or large raids.

And, since it's a one shot deal, other skills usually are worth more on your bar in PvP.

Also, with the Evil Hunter change, don't forget the "KILL ME"balloon they tied to every vamp's wrist. Should be able to tag the hunters the same way, imo.

Dark stalker basically gives you 0 speed penalty while sneaking - you sneak at walk speed. Entering sneak at night seems to be 50% to 100% faster.

Finally, regarding fire resist. You take 150% damage from fire vs the other guy.

Same 50% redux then become 75% damage taken vs 50% damage taken for the other guy. (One fire resist Gold can give you almost 1500 resist, two is plenty - after that, you're wasting it)

25% less fire is still better than no % less fire, especially since the unbalanced element of choice in this game is fire. Hopefully they even it out some in the future.

For Daedric's and Oblivion type scenarios (CoA), it makes sense. For the rest of the world, each element should suck equally.

Also, there is a bit of crypticness regarding fire damage. If it's spell based, it goes through a combination of your Spell resist (first) and fire resist second, up to 50%. If it's environmental (good luck discerning which is which unless it's an outright lava flow), it only uses fire resist.

One piece of situational jewelry (on by default, for safety) is usually sufficient.

Overall, they've powered it down a lot (too much, probably)

It has advantages, it has disadvantages. As a minimum, I'd wait until 1.6 rolls out and see what things might help (or hurt) the gift.

There have been circumstances (fire/evil hunter) where I go down hard. (Nothing like getting hit for 22k with Evil Hunter on last DSA add)

There have also been circumstances (Group Dungeons) where I was the last man standing due to a combination of skills and passives where a non vamp would have dropped like a rock.

Played right, it can sometimes let you survive the unsurvivable.

If you enjoy it, (from your posts, I gather you do), keep it. You may have to avoid some things, but that's what alts are for.