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Fed up with Craglorn questing group-size requirements
Chesimac
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Hello,
I understand craglorn content is structured and designed to be completed by a group and considered a challenge if you don't complete the content in a group. I have been completing a myriad of quests throughout the region, soloing all the content without requiring other groupmates until recently, when I attempted to complete several main Craglorn quests but there were doors that could only be opened by having several group mates. I understand that this zone, like I said, the content is meant to be completed in groups, but for me craglorn, as a mainly solo player, was The only challenging single player content left after zenimax made nerfs on basically all the solo vr content and even guild/main story bosses. I request that these entrance bars be fixed so that if these quests can be done solo, players are actually physically allowed to complete them
I understand craglorn content is structured and designed to be completed by a group and considered a challenge if you don't complete the content in a group. I have been completing a myriad of quests throughout the region, soloing all the content without requiring other groupmates until recently, when I attempted to complete several main Craglorn quests but there were doors that could only be opened by having several group mates. I understand that this zone, like I said, the content is meant to be completed in groups, but for me craglorn, as a mainly solo player, was The only challenging single player content left after zenimax made nerfs on basically all the solo vr content and even guild/main story bosses. I request that these entrance bars be fixed so that if these quests can be done solo, players are actually physically allowed to complete them
37
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s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yea, it's like that one public dungeon. Every group challenge achievement in the game can be completed solo... except for one.1 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭I hope zenimax looks at this... it would be huge for me and certainly others and it shouldn't require all that much effort in comparison to some of the other things they are doing4
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So much agree.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Sotha_Sil✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope this gets revamped too !Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭The most important argument here is their own slogan "Play as you like". I love the Craglorn content. The storyline is good. It's great that they geared it towards groups. If someone wants to go at it alone, let them. Let the difficulty decide how many players are needed.
It's also much less frustrating to not be able to beat something, than to be disallowed to beat something you could beat.
And then there is the challenge aspect: The other day me and a buddy ran into a boss fight in Upper Craglorn we couldn't handle just the two of us. We wiped ten times. Then, instead of asking for help, we went back to the drawing board and adjusted skills and gear, and came back to beat the damn thing. That was one of three best evenings I had in this game.Edited by spoqster on January 5, 2015 7:24AM6 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭Ok, I know this going to be unpopular but....
I think Craglorn should stay group oriented.
Just like PvP has Cyrodil, and PvE has the rest of the game, I believe that there should be a place for groupers. Soloers have the majority of the game at their finger tips, and yet group-centered play is barely anywhere to be found. Grouping, for a great amount of the game, is mostly just for ease or helping a friend. But hardly is there anything worthy of being called 'group content', where it is literally impossible to progress without a group.
That was where Craglorn was supposed to come in. I know many don't like it, but it was created with group minded players in mind. Soloers will eventually get things like Orsinium and Murkmire in the future, so all it really is matter of patience. If the issue is about difficulty, then hope/request that those future zones are difficult.
Let the groupers have their zone, and you can have yours.8 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭
It looks like you don't get the point. No one has mentioned changing any of the content. Simply remove the multiplayer checks. That's it.Ok, I know this going to be unpopular but....
I think Craglorn should stay group oriented.
Just like PvP has Cyrodil, and PvE has the rest of the game, I believe that there should be a place for groupers. Soloers have the majority of the game at their finger tips, and yet group-centered play is barely anywhere to be found. Grouping, for a great amount of the game, is mostly just for ease or helping a friend. But hardly is there anything worthy of being called 'group content', where it is literally impossible to progress without a group.
That was where Craglorn was supposed to come in. I know many don't like it, but it was created with group minded players in mind. Soloers will eventually get things like Orsinium and Murkmire in the future, so all it really is matter of patience. If the issue is about difficulty, then hope/request that those future zones are difficult.
Let the groupers have their zone, and you can have yours.Edited by spoqster on January 5, 2015 12:35AM6 -
Ramtaku✭✭✭This seems like something that would not require a lot of effort and would have zero negative impact. I hope this is considered and I will /feedback it in game.
To Zorrashi, I understand your point and enjoyed the required grouping in EQ.
At this point I like a challenge and often the only way to get one is to solo group content.
I understand that games cannot be designed around people on the right side of the curve, but being mechanically forced to group is a frustrating approach.
The content should dictate if you can solo, not the mechanics associated with being able to experience it.2 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭Ok, I know this going to be unpopular but....
I think Craglorn should stay group oriented.
Just like PvP has Cyrodil, and PvE has the rest of the game, I believe that there should be a place for groupers. Soloers have the majority of the game at their finger tips, and yet group-centered play is barely anywhere to be found. Grouping, for a great amount of the game, is mostly just for ease or helping a friend. But hardly is there anything worthy of being called 'group content', where it is literally impossible to progress without a group.
That was where Craglorn was supposed to come in. I know many don't like it, but it was created with group minded players in mind. Soloers will eventually get things like Orsinium and Murkmire in the future, so all it really is matter of patience. If the issue is about difficulty, then hope/request that those future zones are difficult.
Let the groupers have their zone, and you can have yours.
I am not saying nerf or buff the difficulty of crag content, just that since there is no challenging single player content end game and if you are a solo oriented player there should be an option for you to run it individually. It will still be more viable and more appealing to quest with multiple people (quicker finish times, easier) but for those who want to undertake it themselves or basically have to (no one on when they play, lack of a decent group finder) this is a very sound idea6 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Troof.
And it's a shame because the game used to be really hard in a lot of places.
I'm proud to have defeated the ORIGINAL Manninarco in beta before any nerfs.2 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭Ok, I know this going to be unpopular but....
I think Craglorn should stay group oriented.
Just like PvP has Cyrodil, and PvE has the rest of the game, I believe that there should be a place for groupers. Soloers have the majority of the game at their finger tips, and yet group-centered play is barely anywhere to be found. Grouping, for a great amount of the game, is mostly just for ease or helping a friend. But hardly is there anything worthy of being called 'group content', where it is literally impossible to progress without a group.
That was where Craglorn was supposed to come in. I know many don't like it, but it was created with group minded players in mind. Soloers will eventually get things like Orsinium and Murkmire in the future, so all it really is matter of patience. If the issue is about difficulty, then hope/request that those future zones are difficult.
Let the groupers have their zone, and you can have yours.
I am not saying nerf or buff the difficulty of crag content, just that since there is no challenging single player content end game and if you are a solo oriented player there should be an option for you to run it individually. It will still be more viable and more appealing to quest with multiple people (quicker finish times, easier) but for those who want to undertake it themselves or basically have to (no one on when they play, lack of a decent group finder) this is a very sound idea
Ok now I feel like a derp.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Just ignore the post....it was a huge mistake. 1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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It looks like you don't get the point. No one has mentioned changing any of the content. Simply remove the multiplayer checks. That's it.Ok, I know this going to be unpopular but....
I think Craglorn should stay group oriented.
Just like PvP has Cyrodil, and PvE has the rest of the game, I believe that there should be a place for groupers. Soloers have the majority of the game at their finger tips, and yet group-centered play is barely anywhere to be found. Grouping, for a great amount of the game, is mostly just for ease or helping a friend. But hardly is there anything worthy of being called 'group content', where it is literally impossible to progress without a group.
That was where Craglorn was supposed to come in. I know many don't like it, but it was created with group minded players in mind. Soloers will eventually get things like Orsinium and Murkmire in the future, so all it really is matter of patience. If the issue is about difficulty, then hope/request that those future zones are difficult.
Let the groupers have their zone, and you can have yours.
But those only apply to a handful of quests, and Dibella forbid you have to occasionally group up in an MMO.
Not everything is meant to be completed by one person. In fact, most things aren't. The fact that some people find ways around that (overleveling content, tweaking builds that are ideal for soloing content that was never meant to be soloed, etc.) doesn't mean the developers need to cater to that playstyle.----
Murray?4 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But those only apply to a handful of quests, and Dibella forbid you have to occasionally group up in an MMO.
Not everything is meant to be completed by one person. In fact, most things aren't. The fact that some people find ways around that (overleveling content, tweaking builds that are ideal for soloing content that was never meant to be soloed, etc.) doesn't mean the developers need to cater to that playstyle.
First of all, this change would not be catering to the soloing playstyle. Regardless of this change, these quests will be more viable in quickness and lower in difficulty if you group. Grouping therefore would still be encouraged. This is a small change that would greatly improve eso for many of those who bought this game mainly as an solo rpg and actually want challenging solo content but are prevented because of this mechanic. When there is little to no challenging hard content, one might wonder if assisting such a playstyle at little to no expense to those who prefer to group is such a bad idea like you are suggesting. And you're reasons, such as overleveling content (wtf? its an endgame zone) and using ideal builds for 4 man content are possible just by making a hardy aoe build and are not some sort of exploit zenimax hasnt intended like you are suggesting.
(Also btw, you are one of my favorite commenters and I respect your opinion, just in this case I feel the logic in my case is better)Edited by Chesimac on January 5, 2015 1:24AM3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But those only apply to a handful of quests, and Dibella forbid you have to occasionally group up in an MMO.
Not everything is meant to be completed by one person. In fact, most things aren't. The fact that some people find ways around that (overleveling content, tweaking builds that are ideal for soloing content that was never meant to be soloed, etc.) doesn't mean the developers need to cater to that playstyle.
First of all, this change would not be catering to the soloing playstyle. Regardless of this change, these quests will be more viable in quickness and lower in difficulty if you group. Grouping therefore would still be encouraged. This is a small change that would greatly improve eso for many of those who bought this game mainly as an solo rpg and actually want challenging solo content but are prevented because of this mechanic. When there is little to no challenging hard content, one might wonder if assisting such a playstyle at little to no expense to those who prefer to group is such a bad idea like you are suggesting. And you're reasons, such as overleveling content (wtf? its an endgame zone) and using ideal builds for 4 man content are possible just by making a hardy aoe build and are not some sort of exploit zenimax hasnt intended like you are suggesting.
(Also btw, you are one of my favorite commenters and I respect your opinion, just in this case I feel the logic in my case is better)
I understand the desire to have things be accessible to all players, regardless of how many people are attempting the content, but it wasn't long ago that people were demanding that group dungeons be soloable (yes, really).
I know that a lot of people like playing MMOs solo. I'm one of them. But it's an MMO. There should be a good amount of content that forces people to group up. If the entire game can be completed without grouping, there's no real point to it being multiplayer.----
Murray?1 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But those only apply to a handful of quests, and Dibella forbid you have to occasionally group up in an MMO.
Not everything is meant to be completed by one person. In fact, most things aren't. The fact that some people find ways around that (overleveling content, tweaking builds that are ideal for soloing content that was never meant to be soloed, etc.) doesn't mean the developers need to cater to that playstyle.
First of all, this change would not be catering to the soloing playstyle. Regardless of this change, these quests will be more viable in quickness and lower in difficulty if you group. Grouping therefore would still be encouraged. This is a small change that would greatly improve eso for many of those who bought this game mainly as an solo rpg and actually want challenging solo content but are prevented because of this mechanic. When there is little to no challenging hard content, one might wonder if assisting such a playstyle at little to no expense to those who prefer to group is such a bad idea like you are suggesting. And you're reasons, such as overleveling content (wtf? its an endgame zone) and using ideal builds for 4 man content are possible just by making a hardy aoe build and are not some sort of exploit zenimax hasnt intended like you are suggesting.
(Also btw, you are one of my favorite commenters and I respect your opinion, just in this case I feel the logic in my case is better)
I understand the desire to have things be accessible to all players, regardless of how many people are attempting the content, but it wasn't long ago that people were demanding that group dungeons be soloable (yes, really).
I know that a lot of people like playing MMOs solo. I'm one of them. But it's an MMO. There should be a good amount of content that forces people to group up. If the entire game can be completed without grouping, there's no real point to it being multiplayer.
Valid argument, except the perspective that zenimax is trying to express with this game is "play the way you want". This game is meant to be appealing to TES fans and passionate mmoers alike. Even mainly as a solo player, progressing through the game you would need help with a dolmen around your level, a group boss that was cc immune, a public dungeon boss, a normal dungeon and to do stuff like dsa, trials, pledges,etc., plus still what I am suggesting still has completing crag quests better with groups (timewise and difficulty wise). There is no doubt there is content in this game you are forced to group for. However, some RPG and solo players like myself want hard end game content. There is none, which is fixed in my opinion by this. Doesn't making grouping for these any less relevant, just makes it possible for soloers to experience a hard game. I apologize for being more words than substance in these last comments but to have something that permits hard solo content, has no penalty and is better difficulty and timewise for grouping players (craglorn therefore is still easily way more intented and used for grouping). I have explained it all pretty much, if I have still been vague I will try to clear it up but the overwhelming opinion in this discussion in favor of this idea I think indicates that this idea is supported and sound2 -
CreepySpydre✭✭✭Whether one agrees or not, they said force grouping was a wrong approach, this of course was with the VR silver and gold runs. Then they make Craglorn a forced group approach, its like a dog going back to its own vomit. They did not learn from their own mistake they admit they have done.2 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CreepySpydre wrote: »Whether one agrees or not, they said force grouping was a wrong approach, this of course was with the VR silver and gold runs. Then they make Craglorn a forced group approach, its like a dog going back to its own vomit. They did not learn from their own mistake they admit they have done.
Where in Cadwell's Gold/Silver is there forced grouping?2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I generally dislike grouped gameplay, due to being an incorrigable lone wolf type...
That said, I like the idea of craglorn as optional group oriented region. Someday I may even go and do the stuff in there with a few associates... if I get some associates that is.
As for endgame single player content... one of the "coming soon" new regions is supposed to become just that...0 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pff either way craglorn is still an epic fail of a zone, just make it single player already so people actually do something besides grind.2 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭I know I am repeating myself, but I am a bit confused about the discussion here. To me the matter is really simple.
- ZOS advertises the game as "Play as you like".
- Some players like group content.
- Some players like solo content.
- Some players are missing challenging solo content.
By removing the multiplayer checks from quests in Craglorn, the devs can cater to all the above mentioned issues. Everyone gets everything they want, no one loses anything. Basically, with a small change they can turn a piece of content that currently causes a lot of frustration into a piece of content that everybody will like.
Edited by spoqster on January 5, 2015 11:12AM6 -
ZoM_Head✭✭✭✭It will not happen. This is a MMO not a single player game, there will be forced group content like it or not.
I agree with you, do not misunderstand me, people are farming right next to you when all you need them to do is to stand and activate certain things, around 5 seconds of their time and they will not help you.
But again it is a MMO, ZOS stated earlier that there will be forced grouped content.mDKs still need a lot of love!0 -
Chesimac✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
As for endgame single player content... one of the "coming soon" new regions is supposed to become just that...
You are right, eventually (probably around the spring/summer I imagine) end game single player zones are rumored to be coming out. However, the purpose of this idea is to give soloers who want a challenge exactly that while the content still is performed more easily and quicker with a group, thus keeping the zone still group oriented.- Craglorn content is still structured and more rewarding timewise and difficulty when done in a group (Therefore still group oriented)
- Solo players can actually have challenging content
- Shouldn't require much time and effort from zenimax
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ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭CreepySpydre wrote: »Whether one agrees or not, they said force grouping was a wrong approach, this of course was with the VR silver and gold runs. Then they make Craglorn a forced group approach, its like a dog going back to its own vomit. They did not learn from their own mistake they admit they have done.
Where in Cadwell's Gold/Silver is there forced grouping?
Prior to the difficulty downgrade, it was very hard to solo the content. Most of us would have preferred it stay tough. But I don't think anyone was forced.0 -
Vlakna✭✭✭1st people complain the game is not a MMO because you can do everything solo. Then ZOS add a zone for group play and now ppl complain they cannot solo and they dont want to group with other ppl.
Well as its said you cant agree with God and the Devil at the same time.
Cheers.3
