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Heavy Armor is going to be a lot better after this patch
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KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf1 -
miahq✭✭✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.
This...That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.
And also this. I mean seriously, every stat is being buffed. You've got 10x health but they're also doing 10x damage... It makes literally no difference, other than one number looks bigger. How big of a moron do you have to be to think a 0.6% buff now sucks, but multiply everything times ten and it's suddenly awesome? No one can be that stupid...2 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭So far the only unbreakable CC I've encountered in PvP is being fed on by a vamp - that for sure needs to be fixed asap it's completely ridiculous.
Good for you, but you never played on the EU server, did you...Ping is better than it used to be before the relocation but the response is a lot less reliable. When under attack from 2 or more players, the game basically stops responding for a lot of people, including me. And I'm playing from just like 400 miles from the servers in Frankfurt.0 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭It is, though if they do it wrong it will just mean that everyone is running around in heavy armor and light especially will become useless. Survivability is often the top priority for most, and if you can't incentivize oure mages to use light armor, they'll all just wear heavy.
I always thought heavy should be awesome for survival, but a lag on stamina and magicka. Medium neutral, and then light a boon for magicka but bad on survivability. That way it's not just, "heavy armor is always the best and only choice, if you don't chose heavy armor you're stupid."
If they don't think it through in other words, they'll just end up creating an entirely new problem and be back fixing that in 1.7.
This is how it is now actually, heavy makes you take a lot less damage, but its irrelevant because the key to survival in this game is resource management, and therefore armors that do that better are better for living.
That is WHY people are in light - it provides superior resource management.
If medium or heavy were close, people would use them. It isn't the damage, its the increased use of survivability skills and shields and heals enabled by light armor that lets you live longer than taking less damage upfront.
And in doing that they screwed up, I just don't want it to go in the opposite direction, where everyone is wearing heavy armor. They've not found a balance yet and they really need to.
Heavy needs to provide better resource management than it currently does, near to what is given by the others, so that the difference isnt resources but what you are using them for. Med and light also have skills that help dps performance, so dps will go there and tanks to heavy as they need the survivability.
In pvp you'll see all of them depending on exact class and role. Heavy gives no assistance with dealing damage and current tanky pvp builds rely on ultimates for most damage dealt. With ult gen changing, that won't work too and damage dealt by skills will be more necessary.
The ultimate changes, idk. It seems like it will just allow tanks to spam ultimates like everyone else. I mean it isn't exactly a mechanic change that makes them rarer. People will just start weaving more light attacks in with their skill usage, that's about it.
But back on topic, they do need to make it more like that, though now that they've simplified it-- and considering there are so me good magic themed buffs on heavy sets-- it doesn't seem like they're going to manage that. They'd of had better luck if they'd kept the soft caps, I quite liked the idea. If people were hitting them too easily, just raise them somewhat. That way you could've tied some of the armor types to the soft caps as well, like heavy raises your armor and spell resist, but lowers your over all stamina pool, and your magicka regen caps. Light armor the other way around.
The changes seem more putting armors in line with some other MMOs, just without the restrictions on what class can use them. That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
I think you don't understand the ultimate changes. No one will be using ultimates every 15s like happens now: the current things that generate ultimate aren't going to.
I realize the current things people use to do it won't work, but people will just change what they do. It isn't that hard to fire off light attacks, it shouldn't be too hard. I understand it just fine.
Yes, but no one will get 200 ultimate in 15s like they do right now - you can only have one copy of the buff.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115190 -
miahq✭✭✭It is, though if they do it wrong it will just mean that everyone is running around in heavy armor and light especially will become useless. Survivability is often the top priority for most, and if you can't incentivize oure mages to use light armor, they'll all just wear heavy.
I always thought heavy should be awesome for survival, but a lag on stamina and magicka. Medium neutral, and then light a boon for magicka but bad on survivability. That way it's not just, "heavy armor is always the best and only choice, if you don't chose heavy armor you're stupid."
If they don't think it through in other words, they'll just end up creating an entirely new problem and be back fixing that in 1.7.
This is how it is now actually, heavy makes you take a lot less damage, but its irrelevant because the key to survival in this game is resource management, and therefore armors that do that better are better for living.
That is WHY people are in light - it provides superior resource management.
If medium or heavy were close, people would use them. It isn't the damage, its the increased use of survivability skills and shields and heals enabled by light armor that lets you live longer than taking less damage upfront.
And in doing that they screwed up, I just don't want it to go in the opposite direction, where everyone is wearing heavy armor. They've not found a balance yet and they really need to.
Heavy needs to provide better resource management than it currently does, near to what is given by the others, so that the difference isnt resources but what you are using them for. Med and light also have skills that help dps performance, so dps will go there and tanks to heavy as they need the survivability.
In pvp you'll see all of them depending on exact class and role. Heavy gives no assistance with dealing damage and current tanky pvp builds rely on ultimates for most damage dealt. With ult gen changing, that won't work too and damage dealt by skills will be more necessary.
The ultimate changes, idk. It seems like it will just allow tanks to spam ultimates like everyone else. I mean it isn't exactly a mechanic change that makes them rarer. People will just start weaving more light attacks in with their skill usage, that's about it.
But back on topic, they do need to make it more like that, though now that they've simplified it-- and considering there are so me good magic themed buffs on heavy sets-- it doesn't seem like they're going to manage that. They'd of had better luck if they'd kept the soft caps, I quite liked the idea. If people were hitting them too easily, just raise them somewhat. That way you could've tied some of the armor types to the soft caps as well, like heavy raises your armor and spell resist, but lowers your over all stamina pool, and your magicka regen caps. Light armor the other way around.
The changes seem more putting armors in line with some other MMOs, just without the restrictions on what class can use them. That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
I think you don't understand the ultimate changes. No one will be using ultimates every 15s like happens now: the current things that generate ultimate aren't going to.
I realize the current things people use to do it won't work, but people will just change what they do. It isn't that hard to fire off light attacks, it shouldn't be too hard. I understand it just fine.
Yes, but no one will get 200 ultimate in 15s like they do right now - you can only have one copy of the buff.
True, it's not going to get that bad. So I suppose it depends on your basis for comparison. Regardless, I think it's safe to say they've abandoned the idea of ultimate as a reward for skillful play.0 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭It is, though if they do it wrong it will just mean that everyone is running around in heavy armor and light especially will become useless. Survivability is often the top priority for most, and if you can't incentivize oure mages to use light armor, they'll all just wear heavy.
I always thought heavy should be awesome for survival, but a lag on stamina and magicka. Medium neutral, and then light a boon for magicka but bad on survivability. That way it's not just, "heavy armor is always the best and only choice, if you don't chose heavy armor you're stupid."
If they don't think it through in other words, they'll just end up creating an entirely new problem and be back fixing that in 1.7.
This is how it is now actually, heavy makes you take a lot less damage, but its irrelevant because the key to survival in this game is resource management, and therefore armors that do that better are better for living.
That is WHY people are in light - it provides superior resource management.
If medium or heavy were close, people would use them. It isn't the damage, its the increased use of survivability skills and shields and heals enabled by light armor that lets you live longer than taking less damage upfront.
And in doing that they screwed up, I just don't want it to go in the opposite direction, where everyone is wearing heavy armor. They've not found a balance yet and they really need to.
Heavy needs to provide better resource management than it currently does, near to what is given by the others, so that the difference isnt resources but what you are using them for. Med and light also have skills that help dps performance, so dps will go there and tanks to heavy as they need the survivability.
In pvp you'll see all of them depending on exact class and role. Heavy gives no assistance with dealing damage and current tanky pvp builds rely on ultimates for most damage dealt. With ult gen changing, that won't work too and damage dealt by skills will be more necessary.
The ultimate changes, idk. It seems like it will just allow tanks to spam ultimates like everyone else. I mean it isn't exactly a mechanic change that makes them rarer. People will just start weaving more light attacks in with their skill usage, that's about it.
But back on topic, they do need to make it more like that, though now that they've simplified it-- and considering there are so me good magic themed buffs on heavy sets-- it doesn't seem like they're going to manage that. They'd of had better luck if they'd kept the soft caps, I quite liked the idea. If people were hitting them too easily, just raise them somewhat. That way you could've tied some of the armor types to the soft caps as well, like heavy raises your armor and spell resist, but lowers your over all stamina pool, and your magicka regen caps. Light armor the other way around.
The changes seem more putting armors in line with some other MMOs, just without the restrictions on what class can use them. That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
I think you don't understand the ultimate changes. No one will be using ultimates every 15s like happens now: the current things that generate ultimate aren't going to.
I realize the current things people use to do it won't work, but people will just change what they do. It isn't that hard to fire off light attacks, it shouldn't be too hard. I understand it just fine.
Yes, but no one will get 200 ultimate in 15s like they do right now - you can only have one copy of the buff.
For this reason -- that ult generation is capped by the buff -- I think sets like Blood Spawn, Potentates, Dragonguard, Werewolf, &c will be used much more. Especially for Dragonknights, where their sustain is tied to the ability to drop ultimates.
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miahq✭✭✭And bonus, they're multiplying all the stats by 10, but what about the costs? If they raise the pools without adjusting the costs along with them, then get ready for ESO version 2.0: the year everyone just stopped giving a crap about resource management...2
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Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Idk... call me world weary, cynical,... what have you,... but I'll believe it when I see it.0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And bonus, they're multiplying all the stats by 10, but what about the costs? If they raise the pools without adjusting the costs along with them, then get ready for ESO version 2.0: the year everyone just stopped giving a crap about resource management...
So much flame whip spam.....0 -
miahq✭✭✭And bonus, they're multiplying all the stats by 10, but what about the costs? If they raise the pools without adjusting the costs along with them, then get ready for ESO version 2.0: the year everyone just stopped giving a crap about resource management...
So much flame whip spam.....
Lol, yeah hopefully I'd assume that one they are planning on raising the cost of everything to match. Otherwise that would be kind of dumb. It's more the frustration that they only show up to say something when it's time to market champion as the next best thing. It doesn't seem like there's been a ton of community engagement otherwise.
I mean the love streams... the beauty of love streams is you can pick the questions you want to answer before hand. You can know what you want to tell people about before you even look at the questions, then just pick questions that revolve around those topics. It's the illusion of community engagement at its finest.0 -
And bonus, they're multiplying all the stats by 10, but what about the costs? If they raise the pools without adjusting the costs along with them, then get ready for ESO version 2.0: the year everyone just stopped giving a crap about resource management...
So much flame whip spam.....
Why on earth would this be a thing? No one would die. Ever. Green dragon blood and BoL would keep you alive for 20 minutes straight. Never mind other things. You really see this happening?
Meant to quote Miahq and respond to that, but oh well.Edited by KaneK899ub17_ESO on January 3, 2015 11:59PM0 -
miahq✭✭✭KaneK899ub17_ESO wrote: »And bonus, they're multiplying all the stats by 10, but what about the costs? If they raise the pools without adjusting the costs along with them, then get ready for ESO version 2.0: the year everyone just stopped giving a crap about resource management...
So much flame whip spam.....
Why on earth would this be a thing? No one would die. Ever. Green dragon blood and BoL would keep you alive for 20 minutes straight. Never mind other things. You really see this happening?
Meant to quote Miahq and respond to that, but oh well.
No, that's why I said in the next post I doubt it's going to be that way... unless someone has a complete lack of common sense. It was more to highlight how they've been approaching 1.6 and the champion system changes. Frankly I know when someone is selling me something and that's exactly what they're doing.
They're not going to release details for that reason, the more details they give the more people can pick apart and the whole point is to really sell it and get people psyched. They want to market it to us and that means limiting what you say, that way it's easier to control the tone of the conversation. They don't want people to be sour on it, but instead excited.
I realize all companies do that, but it doesn't mean I've to like it when they use the guise of engaging with their players as a marketing tool. Community manager is just another term for public relations, that's about it. Plus so far all I've seen of the champion system is stat inflation for no freaking reason beyond they seem to think we're children without a basic understanding of math who will be impressed by larger numbers, and an end of game progression system they swiped from swtor, stripped down and repackaged. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get excited by that.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.
This...That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.
And also this. I mean seriously, every stat is being buffed. You've got 10x health but they're also doing 10x damage... It makes literally no difference, other than one number looks bigger. How big of a moron do you have to be to think a 0.6% buff now sucks, but multiply everything times ten and it's suddenly awesome? No one can be that stupid...
It's a matter of proportionality. If you have say 2000 Magicka, The smallest buff they can really give you is...1. If you have 20,000 Magicka, they can give you a little prize for Champion Points that gives you 50 or 75 Magicka. This is not even enough to really be noticeable, but they could let you buy it over and over until you started making meaningful progress in that stat. It elongates the time period over which they can stretch out character growth for one single toon.
The same reason every game does it really. Why give someone 1000 HP when you could give them 10? Think about it. No attack could do less than 1 damage or more than like 5...
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miahq✭✭✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.
This...That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.
And also this. I mean seriously, every stat is being buffed. You've got 10x health but they're also doing 10x damage... It makes literally no difference, other than one number looks bigger. How big of a moron do you have to be to think a 0.6% buff now sucks, but multiply everything times ten and it's suddenly awesome? No one can be that stupid...
It's a matter of proportionality. If you have say 2000 Magicka, The smallest buff they can really give you is...1. If you have 20,000 Magicka, they can give you a little prize for Champion Points that gives you 50 or 75 Magicka. This is not even enough to really be noticeable, but they could let you buy it over and over until you started making meaningful progress in that stat. It elongates the time period over which they can stretch out character growth for one single toon.
The same reason every game does it really. Why give someone 1000 HP when you could give them 10? Think about it. No attack could do less than 1 damage or more than like 5...
It's the exact same percentage increase, it makes absolutely no difference in game terms. One number just looks bigger. I realize why they do it, I'm just saying no one could be that stupid to complain about getting a 0.6% stat increase now, but suddenly think it's awesome after they multiply everything by ten. It's like offering someone a ten dollar bill or ten ones, and they take the ten ones because it looks bigger... It makes absolutely no difference. Unless you're really, really dumb. And honestly it's a little insulting if that's the way they believe we all think. It's just a change that lacks any real substance.3 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.
This...That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.
And also this. I mean seriously, every stat is being buffed. You've got 10x health but they're also doing 10x damage... It makes literally no difference, other than one number looks bigger. How big of a moron do you have to be to think a 0.6% buff now sucks, but multiply everything times ten and it's suddenly awesome? No one can be that stupid...
even though i can absolutly understand you - the inflation is needed to make the changes done in 1.6 recognizable. i guess you have seen the pictures on tamrielfoundry regarding the constelations if not so clickey
69 CPs invested for a 5.4% stamina cost reduction of bash, that 0.078% per point. to have this small amount of change visable the affected value has to be rather large, as a digit change in the 5 post decimal place isnt obvious...
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
miahq✭✭✭Stat inflation will probably cause me to stop playing more than any other issue with the game. One of the things I've always liked about ESO is that the stat pools are small & the damage numbers are reasonable. Making player stats & damage numbers more like WoW or Diablo is not a something I find appealing.
This...That combined with some other cosmetic and mechanic changes, like multiplying all the stats by 10 (40,000 health now I guess), eso version 2.0 is moving quite a ways away from elder scrolls and far more into the MMO corner. That has me uneasy.
Ugh. Stat inflation is the last thing I want to see in this game.
This they did it with WoW so all the 12 year olds can go "wooo bro just hit 150k" when hitting 3k was enough back in the day. Over kill and not needed.
And also this. I mean seriously, every stat is being buffed. You've got 10x health but they're also doing 10x damage... It makes literally no difference, other than one number looks bigger. How big of a moron do you have to be to think a 0.6% buff now sucks, but multiply everything times ten and it's suddenly awesome? No one can be that stupid...
even though i can absolutly understand you - the inflation is needed to make the changes done in 1.6 recognizable. i guess you have seen the pictures on tamrielfoundry regarding the constelations if not so clickey
69 CPs invested for a 5.4% stamina cost reduction of bash, that 0.078% per point. to have this small amount of change visable the affected value has to be rather large, as a digit change in the 5 post decimal place isnt obvious...
I realize that's why they did it, that's actually where I got the 0.6% value from, them saying the first would give you 1%, but second point only 0.9, 0.8, 0.7, 0.6 etc. it's supposed to make people feel like even a 0.06% increase means something, because it's 120pts versus 12. But if I buff a stat with that, old version and new version, my stat will increase by the exact same percentage. I just can't understand the mentality of people who would cheer a 0.6% boost in the new system as a gain, but trash it in the old system as being worthless. At most it seems like just a cosmetic change to make their system seem much better and more rewarding, but that's a pretty thin veil it's got.1 -
Thejollygreenone✭✭✭Pretty sure stats aren't being multiplied by 10, if I remember correctly it's more like 3 or 4 that they're being multiplied by.
This is a pretty baseless claim though, I just vaguely remember some discussion about this and someone confidently asserting a number much lower than 10. If I can find what I was thinking of I'll come back here and post of course.
Regardless, I hope it's not a flat 10:
A. Numbers would be too high for my liking
B. It's a much more boring change; Just moving a decimal point over on stats rather than dealing with completely different scaling for them and therefore different numbers to work with.Edited by Thejollygreenone on January 4, 2015 3:02AM0 -
miahq✭✭✭Thejollygreenone wrote: »Pretty sure stats aren't being multiplied by 10, if I remember correctly it's more like 3 or 4 that they're being multiplied by.
This is a pretty baseless claim though, I just vaguely remember some discussion about this and someone confidently asserting a number much lower than 10. If I can find what I was thinking of I'll come back here and post of course.
Regardless, I hope it's not a flat 10:
A. Numbers would be too high for my liking
B. It's a much more boring change; Just moving a decimal point over on stats rather than dealing with completely different scaling for them and therefore different numbers to work with.
It was originally a flat ten, now they've changed it so it's not exactly a flat ten. In other words, different attributes are being rescaled differently, with health looking like the most, as it's still possible to get 40,000 health. That however, also moves us in the direction of changing it so that instead of 1-5 hits to kill someone, it could take 15-20 or more. I mean the super over-powered guard in their demo took like 5 hits doing ~2500 damage each to kill the. PC. So as I said, of they didn't scale the damage the same then suddenly it js it becomes another ridiculous, generic MMO.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
It's all in here, along with their bizarre explanation that a lot of its uptown make us feel like we're really making progress with those cp.Edited by miahq on January 4, 2015 4:47AM0
