Gaining Champion Points (speculations)

The_Death_Princess · January 2015

I have listened to guild chat alot lately about how the new system is supposed to be PVE grind only. No facts have been presented, but ZOS I thought it would be VERY important for you to know that:

If you are going to make us grind PVE quest for champions, you MUST allow dedicated players that have already completed Cadwell Gold and Silver (not just main but complete zone) to restart them.

Simple enough just have something with Cadwell to restart the flags on both of them. As it is rumored now, guildies say that it is easier to just reroll the same toon.

That doesnt make any sense now does it? Nine months of work wasted?

Better yet, if we truly did them like I and my mates have, give us the appropriate points for the two COMPLETE lines (not the zippers thru silver to do trials club) you can see that by the achievements (like me, I have them all on 2 toons).

miahq · January 2015

Unfortunately I doubt they're going to change their minds about how it works-- assuming that's how it works, it could be just rumors. Frankly their reasoning seems to be a desire not to start people too far into the champion progression, at least partly. As an end game mechanic to replace vet levels, it seems basically the same thing just much, much slower progress. I mean changing the rewards you receive doesn't exactly make it a new or innovative system. Well... it wouldn't be a "new" idea under any circumstances, I guess.

Point is, it's basically the same thing just slowed way the hell down. So they aren't going to start people off too far ahead. Changing it from tracking exp may have just been because the actual exchange rate of exp into cp would've been absurdly weighted to begin with.

In the end this will fail just like the champion system though. Why? There are only 300 points, and however long they think it will take people to get them all, they'd better cut that in half because people are just going to find a way to grind them out. Bonus, you've only got to do it once. So congrats, you've created an end of game progression system that's only good for one character.

*i think it's 300, if I understand it correctly. But, even so at 1hr per cp they've stated, even at 2100 people would have it done in under 8 months. So I guess stay tuned for eso relaunch number two next Christmas, when they have to do the same damn thing over again.

Rebeccas04nub18_ESO · January 2015

On the speculation part: Ive read the explanations, arguments and watched some videos and I still don't understand what the champion system is or how it's going to work. I can't complain that I'm being cheated after working my way up to a VR9 & VR6 characters because I don't see how that's going to happen.
Sounds like there's going to be an "in addition to" type system, instead of being cheated out of what we've already worked so hard for.
I'm not saying the arguments against are baseless, I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

WhiskyBob · January 2015

PTS is getting up soon. So how about shutting up about it for once and wait for actual public testing?

miahq · January 2015

Rebeccas04nub18_ESO wrote: »

On the speculation part: Ive read the explanations, arguments and watched some videos and I still don't understand what the champion system is or how it's going to work. I can't complain that I'm being cheated after working my way up to a VR9 & VR6 characters because I don't see how that's going to happen.
Sounds like there's going to be an "in addition to" type system, instead of being cheated out of what we've already worked so hard for.
I'm not saying the arguments against are baseless, I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

It's basically a stripped down version of the legacy system in swtor. It's basically just slowed down level progression with a different level reward system, instead of the usual rewards you get cp to unlock small bonuses or buffs across all your characters.

The upsides being it allows incremental gain for older players while minimizing the gap between old and new players.

The downsides being you only have to do it once for your account, and people will burn through it probably quicker than they think since they've estimated it takes about an hour to earn each point. That and the system itself doesn't directly address the problems people had with end game content, so the solution to the larger problem at least partly remains to be seen. That will likely be coming in one of the more distant updates for the champion system.

Right now though, most of the changes people are talking about really aren't part of the champion system, just unrelated additional changes.

DeLindsay · January 2015

They've already said that in 1.6 they are increasing XP gain in PvP and Dungeons so that will help the PvPers gain CP a little faster than they would if it remained the same XP gain as today. However, I highly doubt there will be any possibility to gain XP as fast in PvP as one can do grinding PvE, that's just the way of pretty much all MMO's. That generally would mean those who have no life and can grind 10hrs+/day will start to pull apart from the pack reasonably quickly, but DR will hit them in the face like a Mack truck.

miahq · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

They've already said that in 1.6 they are increasing XP gain in PvP and Dungeons so that will help the PvPers gain CP a little faster than they would if it remained the same XP gain as today. However, I highly doubt there will be any possibility to gain XP as fast in PvP as one can do grinding PvE, that's just the way of pretty much all MMO's. That generally would mean those who have no life and can grind 10hrs+/day will start to pull apart from the pack reasonably quickly, but DR will hit them in the face like a Mack truck.

That's probably my bigger criticism, is that as a fix for end game content it's largely just a bandaid. Even at 2100 cp (which I think they've lowered that a lot now, which is why they scaled back to only giving everyone 30), people will starting capping out a lot sooner than they thing. You'll have a lot of people maxed out by this time next year, then what are they going to do?

I know some people are always gonna grind it until the end, but I wish they wouldn't build their entire platform around that. Just because that's the WoW model doesn't mean that has to be the MMO model. Not everything has to be dungeon crawls and grinding. Hell, elder scrolls is supposed to be about immersion. If you give people more of the continent to explore, and make it more interesting and involved (ie not just hey, there's a mob at a static spawn point just sitting there for no reason, let's kill it), you wouldn't have to worry so much about entertaining people at end game.

That's actually one of the more baffling things to me about eso, immersion was probably the biggest selling point of any ES game and yet it doesn't seem to be a very high priority in eso. How is it an ES game without immersion?

DeLindsay · January 2015

There's 3600 Champion Points total not 2100. And by this time next year they could've easily added hundreds of points to the system by adding more Constellations, more Stars in each Constellation or more points in each Star. As new content comes out we will probably see a rise in the total amount of CP. Yes, there will be a select few that actually cap it out before it increases again. But even ZoS has said they expect that to be no more than the top 1-5% of players. Certainly ZoS has underestimated players before (Trials, ahem) but it's also possible they've learned their lesson this time around and have made a more robust system that'll actually last a good while.

Once it's on PTS we will be able to at least check all the changes out, including the addition of the Champion System, and then we'll get a better handle on things. All this speculation really does none of us any good.

miahq · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

There's 3600 Champion Points total not 2100. And by this time next year they could've easily added hundreds of points to the system by adding more Constellations, more Stars in each Constellation or more points in each Star. As new content comes out we will probably see a rise in the total amount of CP. Yes, there will be a select few that actually cap it out before it increases again. But even ZoS has said they expect that to be no more than the top 1-5% of players. Certainly ZoS has underestimated players before (Trials, ahem) but it's also possible they've learned their lesson this time around and have made a more robust system that'll actually last a good while.

Once it's on PTS we will be able to at least check all the changes out, including the addition of the Champion System, and then we'll get a better handle on things. All this speculation really does none of us any good.

Oops, your right. They lowered it to 3600. And I fully expect them to add more cp over time. Bit, nothing in the champion system really addresses end of game content, just end of game progression. That's my bigger criticism, a lack of end game content beyond waiting for the next dungeon run to be released. That and I still don't think anyone should be trying to copy WoWs. It doesn't matter if they've managed to be successful with that model, no one else is going to be successful just by copying it.