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Tanking too Hard
Dustile
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I'm hearing some people saying tanking is way harder in 12mans in this game then equivalent events/raids in other MMO's. True? False? How much harder are we talking? And why? Is it mechanics? Or what's up?
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ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes and no. It's different. People are users to tanking everything at once and you keep aggro with a certain rotation. In ESO tanks usually only tank 3-4 enemies and just because they have aggro doesn't mean ransoms hits I other players can't happen.0 -
Divad Zarn✭✭✭Completely false, those who saying that tanking is hard in ESO, never played in WoW as tank in 24 groups heroic dungeons, even in BC/WoTLK expansions.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Tanking is the easiest thing you can do in this game. It's as simple as keeping a couple debuffs up and holding right click down. Even more so in 12 man content
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AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tanking is the easiest thing you can do in this game. It's as simple as keeping a couple debuffs up and holding right click down. Even more so in 12 man content
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BckI5VHHLA
Also ESO Tanking Guide [by Deltia's Gaming]Edited by AshySamurai on January 2, 2015 8:12AMMake sweetrolls, not nerfs!1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tanking in ESO comes down to this: Don't stand in stupid. Ok so it's a little more than that but it's still a fair comment. One reason many think Tanking is hard in ESO is they don't understand how Taunt works, or even what it is. There is only 2 Taunt abilities in the game, and one can't be gotten until a little later on in levels as you need Undaunted to a high enough level to get it. There is no way to AOE Taunt and as a Tank you are NOT supposed to try and pull the whole room by yourself. Most NPC's, even Bosses, won't 1-shot the average non-Tank like in other MMO's, especially if they hold block when it runs over to slap them.
Taunt also has a built in 10 second Taunt immune mechanic that people can't seem to wrap their head around. You have to leave Taunt on the enemy for at least 10 seconds before applying it again or you risk (on the 3rd Taunt) the enemy becoming Taunt immune for a short duration. You are also responsible for applying debuffs to the enemy, interrupting attacks, blocking when needed (but not 24/7 like some do), moving out of stupid, turning the enemy away from the group, etc.
Another thing Tanks don't get or like in ESO is that your Health really isn't much higher than the average player of equal level. That makes players nervous until they realize it's part of the mechanic. Oh, and Tanks can 100% be 1-shot if they don't block the right move. That worries some as well, as they're used to having so much more health, Armor and Mitigation that they can take multiple hits without concern, ESO is not that way. Is it harder than other MMO's, no, it's just different.5 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tanking is the easiest thing you can do in this game. It's as simple as keeping a couple debuffs up and holding right click down. Even more so in 12 man content
+1
I recently started tanking in veteran dungeons and it seems much easier than the other roles, at least during boss fights. You only have to worry about your own buffs/HP, your position and keeping aggro up all the time. If you see that your ressources (stam/mag) aren't really depleting, use more buffs. If they go down too quickly, relax a bit and use only taunts until the bars start to look better.
Just be ready for emergencies, you healer or your DPS could do something stupid and you could have to rely only on your own abilities for a few seconds. Don't be out of ressources when it happens.Wololo.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Tanking is the easiest thing you can do in this game. It's as simple as keeping a couple debuffs up and holding right click down. Even more so in 12 man content
+1
I recently started tanking in veteran dungeons and it seems much easier than the other roles, at least during boss fights. You only have to worry about your own buffs/HP, your position and keeping aggro up all the time. If you see that your ressources (stam/mag) aren't really depleting, use more buffs. If they go down too quickly, relax a bit and use only taunts until the bars start to look better.
Just be ready for emergencies, you healer or your DPS could do something stupid and you could have to rely only on your own abilities for a few seconds. Don't be out of ressources when it happens.
Well resource management is also easy, just pop a tri-pot on CD But then again, I'm a nightblade.
My general workflow looks like this: Is taunt up? If not, apply. Is low slash up? If not, apply. Are Dark Shades up? If not, apply. Spam Swallow soul until magicka depletes. Spam low slash until stamina is at 10%. Pop pot. Rinse, repeat.
Keep veil of blades for dmg intense moments. And that's it.
Once you get the gist of it, you can start weaving heavy attacks for stamina regen here and there.
Generally, tanking could be made much more reactive if block wasn't a simple "hold right click". I'd love to see reaction based blocking instead. Would also make PvP more interesting. Oh well...Edited by Marthenil on January 2, 2015 5:53PM1 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Go tank Vet DSA!Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »Completely false, those who saying that tanking is hard in ESO, never played in WoW as tank in 24 groups heroic dungeons, even in BC/WoTLK expansions.
I did. And well let's just say I'd rather tank in WoW everyday than in ESO once per week. I can't comment on other MMOs though, but tanking in ESO is 1000x harder than in WoW.4 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭Tanking is pretty easy in most instances. You can see by how people have done 12 man AA and HR trials naked. I've seen people with 2.2k HP tank HR without any food buffs on.
Tanking is only challenging in vet DSA and in SO. For these places, you need a good tank, with good resource management. These instances are what tanking in this game is really about.
Unfortunately, for all other other instanced 4-man or 12-man dungeons/trials, you don't even need a real tank. If your group is good, it's probably more efficient to just get a dps with a taunt instead of a tank.0 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I 'm a VR14 Nightblade who tanks in Medium armor and find it pretty easy. I use the Twin Sisters and Unassailed set, and almost never have a problem. Taunt, throw a few debuffs (shades are great for that with a 15% damage reduction) and add in sword and board to take 40% off their armor and you can do some significant debuffs. Plus, blocking from Twin Sisters does a fair armount of damage on its own.
It's not perfect, and I'll never beat a Heavy Armor tank, but I've also found it really easy if you have a healer who knows what they're doing.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »Completely false, those who saying that tanking is hard in ESO, never played in WoW as tank in 24 groups heroic dungeons, even in BC/WoTLK expansions.
I did. And well let's just say I'd rather tank in WoW everyday than in ESO once per week. I can't comment on other MMOs though, but tanking in ESO is 1000x harder than in WoW.
I was a tank in Vanilla and TBC. ESO tanking feels like that, really. Keep 5 sunders up! Erm sorry, I mean Pierce armor and Low Slash!
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Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »Completely false, those who saying that tanking is hard in ESO, never played in WoW as tank in 24 groups heroic dungeons, even in BC/WoTLK expansions.
I did. And well let's just say I'd rather tank in WoW everyday than in ESO once per week. I can't comment on other MMOs though, but tanking in ESO is 1000x harder than in WoW.
I was a tank in Vanilla and TBC. ESO tanking feels like that, really. Keep 5 sunders up! Erm sorry, I mean Pierce armor and Low Slash!
Fun times 0 -
Winnower✭✭✭✭Tanking tools in this game are extremely lacking. LoTRO, SW:TOR, EQ all had much better defined tanking roles and much better tools/skills.
that being said, tanking in this game is easy. Run a tank build and you can solo anything in the game that isn't defined for groups / raids. And in those situations you live or die based on if there is a real healer in the group so shrug.
I've been a raid main tank since 1999 in one mmo or another. This game barely even has tanks, as such. Of course it also barely has (minimal) grouping / raid content and difficulty either, so you really don't need roles like in those games.VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭Tanking tools in this game are extremely lacking. LoTRO, SW:TOR, EQ all had much better defined tanking roles and much better tools/skills.
that being said, tanking in this game is easy. Run a tank build and you can solo anything in the game that isn't defined for groups / raids. And in those situations you live or die based on if there is a real healer in the group so shrug.
I've been a raid main tank since 1999 in one mmo or another. This game barely even has tanks, as such. Of course it also barely has (minimal) grouping / raid content and difficulty either, so you really don't need roles like in those games.
3 raids, one of which hasn't been cleared in Hard mode by anyone yet, and less than 10%* of the game pop has cleared is not enough raid content?
And you very much need a tank for those. More than one, too.
* You know what they say about statistics on the internet....0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My only issue with tanking is currently most the games "elite" content doesn't need it, only more AoE DPS.
AA for example basically only needs a tank for the axes at the end, maybe the weird nature/frost woman. The rest is stack and spam.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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And how many multiple Boss raids did WoW have for it's first full year hmmm? Rift launched with 1 raid then added a 2nd shortly after launch, then it took 5 months to get a 3rd. ESO is still new and as such cannot be compared to MMO's that have been out for years or a decade or more as far as content goes. So many people have been spoiled by games with multi-year runs and forget how bad those games were at or near their own launch dates. Hardly any MMO launches with tons of end game content, that comes later on as they add to the game.Tanking tools in this game are extremely lacking. LoTRO, SW:TOR, EQ all had much better defined tanking roles and much better tools/skills.
that being said, tanking in this game is easy. Run a tank build and you can solo anything in the game that isn't defined for groups / raids. And in those situations you live or die based on if there is a real healer in the group so shrug.
I've been a raid main tank since 1999 in one mmo or another. This game barely even has tanks, as such. Of course it also barely has (minimal) grouping / raid content and difficulty either, so you really don't need roles like in those games.2 -
Marthenil✭✭✭My only issue with tanking is currently most the games "elite" content doesn't need it, only more AoE DPS.
AA for example basically only needs a tank for the axes at the end, maybe the weird nature/frost woman. The rest is stack and spam.
That is a case of them undertuning the starting raids. SO is much better in that regard. Also the hardmodes.0 -
cracker81✭✭✭Tanking is pretty easy in most instances. You can see by how people have done 12 man AA and HR trials naked. I've seen people with 2.2k HP tank HR without any food buffs on.
Tanking is only challenging in vet DSA and in SO. For these places, you need a good tank, with good resource management. These instances are what tanking in this game is really about.
Unfortunately, for all other other instanced 4-man or 12-man dungeons/trials, you don't even need a real tank. If your group is good, it's probably more efficient to just get a dps with a taunt instead of a tank.
I assume you don't PUG? The reason why I say this most of the time a tank cares the group more so. One reason is DPS is usually very low, meaning lower than the tanks dps. I can get 600 dps single target with blocking, dmg mitigation, CC, of course always moving and self heals. I even Solo a few Vet bosses with no healer or dps. To tell PUGs they do not need a tank is going to make that group fail. If I get a great healer I can increase my dps to 700 maybe 800. Most of the time PUG heals are ok or don't exist. I even did Vet Spindle helm farms with 3 dps and me as a tanking it was fine. To me the most important roles in any dungeon is the tank and healer. In fact you can 2 man any VR12 normal dungeon with a tank and anything else or a healer and anything else. Some VR12 Vet dungeons you can two man with a tank and healer.
If don't believe PUG a group and go naked.1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
But what you are playing is not a true tank, but a dps-tank (or a dps that holds block a lot). This is the type of "tank" that I'm referring to as optimal for dungeons.Tanking is pretty easy in most instances. You can see by how people have done 12 man AA and HR trials naked. I've seen people with 2.2k HP tank HR without any food buffs on.
Tanking is only challenging in vet DSA and in SO. For these places, you need a good tank, with good resource management. These instances are what tanking in this game is really about.
Unfortunately, for all other other instanced 4-man or 12-man dungeons/trials, you don't even need a real tank. If your group is good, it's probably more efficient to just get a dps with a taunt instead of a tank.
I assume you don't PUG? The reason why I say this most of the time a tank cares the group more so. One reason is DPS is usually very low, meaning lower than the tanks dps. I can get 600 dps single target with blocking, dmg mitigation, CC, of course always moving and self heals. I even Solo a few Vet bosses with no healer or dps. To tell PUGs they do not need a tank is going to make that group fail. If I get a great healer I can increase my dps to 700 maybe 800. Most of the time PUG heals are ok or don't exist. I even did Vet Spindle helm farms with 3 dps and me as a tanking it was fine. To me the most important roles in any dungeon is the tank and healer. In fact you can 2 man any VR12 normal dungeon with a tank and anything else or a healer and anything else. Some VR12 Vet dungeons you can two man with a tank and healer.
If don't believe PUG a group and go naked.
A pure tank cannot carry a PUG when the dps is poor. A dps-tank can, but that isn't a true tank. This is why I prefer to play as dps in PUGs.0 -
cracker81✭✭✭
But what you are playing is not a true tank, but a dps-tank (or a dps that holds block a lot). This is the type of "tank" that I'm referring to as optimal for dungeons.Tanking is pretty easy in most instances. You can see by how people have done 12 man AA and HR trials naked. I've seen people with 2.2k HP tank HR without any food buffs on.
Tanking is only challenging in vet DSA and in SO. For these places, you need a good tank, with good resource management. These instances are what tanking in this game is really about.
Unfortunately, for all other other instanced 4-man or 12-man dungeons/trials, you don't even need a real tank. If your group is good, it's probably more efficient to just get a dps with a taunt instead of a tank.
I assume you don't PUG? The reason why I say this most of the time a tank cares the group more so. One reason is DPS is usually very low, meaning lower than the tanks dps. I can get 600 dps single target with blocking, dmg mitigation, CC, of course always moving and self heals. I even Solo a few Vet bosses with no healer or dps. To tell PUGs they do not need a tank is going to make that group fail. If I get a great healer I can increase my dps to 700 maybe 800. Most of the time PUG heals are ok or don't exist. I even did Vet Spindle helm farms with 3 dps and me as a tanking it was fine. To me the most important roles in any dungeon is the tank and healer. In fact you can 2 man any VR12 normal dungeon with a tank and anything else or a healer and anything else. Some VR12 Vet dungeons you can two man with a tank and healer.
If don't believe PUG a group and go naked.
A pure tank cannot carry a PUG when the dps is poor. A dps-tank can, but that isn't a true tank. This is why I prefer to play as dps in PUGs.
True Tank is? I wear heavy armor with shield. My armor is 3300 and spell resist is 2200 with no buffs and my health 3200. I don't know what you would think a true tank is but I am. If I change my armor and skill around to be a DPS single target can pull well over 1200. If you pull 600-800 DPS as a dps you need to work on your toon. I was a tank in WoW did the same thing. I pulled more dps and healed myself more than some healers in WoW. When I first started as a tank in ESO did only 200 dps then I kept learning new things and using different skills for different fights.
Its all about knowing your toon and the encounter to come. You can only get better by learning and plus love running with PUGs. I love the challenge special when you got 2 that say they never killed this boss and bam, he dies at first attempt. I love staying and working as a team to get through something. By doing that I get better as well. Then when I go with really good ppl, I can actually fall asleep and still get through.1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
So basically, what you're saying is that the value of a tank is determined (at least in major part) by how much dps he does, because if the tank doesn't do enough dps, the pug group might not be able to clear the dungeon.
But what you are playing is not a true tank, but a dps-tank (or a dps that holds block a lot). This is the type of "tank" that I'm referring to as optimal for dungeons.Tanking is pretty easy in most instances. You can see by how people have done 12 man AA and HR trials naked. I've seen people with 2.2k HP tank HR without any food buffs on.
Tanking is only challenging in vet DSA and in SO. For these places, you need a good tank, with good resource management. These instances are what tanking in this game is really about.
Unfortunately, for all other other instanced 4-man or 12-man dungeons/trials, you don't even need a real tank. If your group is good, it's probably more efficient to just get a dps with a taunt instead of a tank.
I assume you don't PUG? The reason why I say this most of the time a tank cares the group more so. One reason is DPS is usually very low, meaning lower than the tanks dps. I can get 600 dps single target with blocking, dmg mitigation, CC, of course always moving and self heals. I even Solo a few Vet bosses with no healer or dps. To tell PUGs they do not need a tank is going to make that group fail. If I get a great healer I can increase my dps to 700 maybe 800. Most of the time PUG heals are ok or don't exist. I even did Vet Spindle helm farms with 3 dps and me as a tanking it was fine. To me the most important roles in any dungeon is the tank and healer. In fact you can 2 man any VR12 normal dungeon with a tank and anything else or a healer and anything else. Some VR12 Vet dungeons you can two man with a tank and healer.
If don't believe PUG a group and go naked.
A pure tank cannot carry a PUG when the dps is poor. A dps-tank can, but that isn't a true tank. This is why I prefer to play as dps in PUGs.
True Tank is? I wear heavy armor with shield. My armor is 3300 and spell resist is 2200 with no buffs and my health 3200. I don't know what you would think a true tank is but I am. If I change my armor and skill around to be a DPS single target can pull well over 1200. If you pull 600-800 DPS as a dps you need to work on your toon. I was a tank in WoW did the same thing. I pulled more dps and healed myself more than some healers in WoW. When I first started as a tank in ESO did only 200 dps then I kept learning new things and using different skills for different fights.
Its all about knowing your toon and the encounter to come. You can only get better by learning and plus love running with PUGs. I love the challenge special when you got 2 that say they never killed this boss and bam, he dies at first attempt. I love staying and working as a team to get through something. By doing that I get better as well. Then when I go with really good ppl, I can actually fall asleep and still get through.
And I don't disagree, actually. Maybe the only difference between us is semantics. To me, if you're doing 800 dps, then to me, that's a dps role. Most v14 inexperienced pug dps that you can find out there won't even pull 800 dps. But if you consider that to be a tank, I don't have a problem with that either.1 -
Petros✭✭✭In some cases, I agree.
Tanking for Dungeons and Vet dungeons, you don't really need to be the best, you can have a hybrid of tank/dps, but as the difficult increases, so must the tank in their tanking role.
When the tank goes into Trials, AA/HRC, it's a little more demanding for the tank to be more survival and smarter.
And when doing Vet DSA, the tank needs to have a lot more variations of tanking. it is all about knowing the encounter, know thy enemy.
SO, the tank needs to be all about survival, hard cap armor, great resistance, fantastic resource management.
In SO, the tank shouldn't really be doing dps, he can help a little once they get comfortable with the encounters, but honestly, the tank has their role and the dps has theirs. In SO, we use 2 tanks until Serpent. when it's time for the Serpent, I will tank both Serpent and Manitkora, we have a Lammy off tank, but quick switches to heavy dps when his task is over."Our light will bring the dawning of a new hope!" ~ Petros Fordring -The Order of Mundus
- VR16 Imperial Dragonknight (DC -NA) & The One Handed Tank0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭To anyone saying that tanking is the easiest role in raids... I ask you the following question: would rather have 1 dps in the raid that have never ran SO or 1 tank in the raid that never tanked SO?
Besides that, the whole game is more difficult than other MMOs. Everyone felt that in the beginning. The learning cuve is steeper and regardless of the role you should feel it, except that right now people are used to the difficulty.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »To anyone saying that tanking is the easiest role in raids... I ask you the following question: would rather have 1 dps in the raid that have never ran SO or 1 tank in the raid that never tanked SO?
Besides that, the whole game is more difficult than other MMOs. Everyone felt that in the beginning. The learning cuve is steeper and regardless of the role you should feel it, except that right now people are used to the difficulty.
As a main tank, a tank that hasn't done SO is easier to get accustomed to the fights. Just have him tank the manticore, and the serpent and check that their gear is properly set.0
