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Question from an old player who thinks about starting again

Lazerus
Lazerus
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Hello again.
I stopped playing ESO before the first big patch, since it was way too bugged at that time. I was thinking that i could maybe start again when they implement the "Thieves Guild stuff". Now...in january it seems like it finally hits.

But before i decide to play again, i wanted to ask a few things.

- Is Nightblade finally fixed?
Back when i played, nothing (i mean seriously nothing) worked.
The whole "Armor Reduce" system from NB didnt work, since PVE had no armor for the poor NPCs it seems.
"Stealth" didnt work with DoT effects, Archers in PVP could still hit you when you used the cloak, not to mention the "hivemind effect" (one guy sees you, everyone sees you)
There were probably more...but those are the ones i can still remember.

- Any changes in balancing?
Another thing from the past.
Back then, the strongest weapon was a shield (the bash), the best tank was a NB with healerstaff, and the best everything was DK.
Has this changed? i read a few times that ESO was called "The Elder Staffs Online", because the majority of players used Light Armor and Staffs, since Light armor gave you both offense and defense passive for magical, and all class-abilities where magical.
Physical was split into Medium and Heavy Armor there, and only weapon abilities used them - so totally useless.

- What about Dungeons?
The last time i was in a dungeon, it was horrible.
More based on luck and wipes than on skills. PVE overall was horrible through the balancing.
A few Guildies played Craglorn (i had quit at that time), and they mentioned that its all but fun. Running hours towards the boss, wiping three times to start all over again.
Any changes to that?

- What about the "holy trinity"
I know, we never had the classical "Tank, Healer, DD" and yeah...i have seen what happened, as mentioned above.
The strongest Tank i have ever seen was a Lightarmored NB with Healerstaff, the best DD was a guy with a shield, Stealth was completely useless and DK could do everything.

- Vampire and Werewolves
I was a Vampire, my friend was a WW.
Vampire got some pretty nasty nerfs back then because of some PVP issues (armor effect stacking, unlimited batswarm spamming)
Back then, they nerfed the Vampire instead of fixing the cost-reduction stacking.
Werewolf was pretty much useless in PVE, since you could use your ulti like ones every half an hour, and you were weaker than with it, since your equipment was not scaling towards it.
Any changes to that? is it viable now to play as a Vamp or WW besides the RP aspect?

- Balancing based on PVP - Still a thing?
One thing that p****d me off pretty much. PVE balancing based on PVP flaws.
Still a thing, or finally seperated?

- What about the endgame?
Nothing to say about it...what can you do now once you reached max rank?
I read something about the champion point that will replace the veteran system.
Since i finished every single quest back then...would that mean i have to grind a lot, while a VR1 can still earn points through quests?

i would be thankfull if someone could answere these questions :)
Maybe then we will start again with U6^^
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    Welcome back, mate!
    Another thing from the past.
    Back then, the strongest weapon was a shield (the bash), the best tank was a NB with healerstaff, and the best everything was DK.
    Has this changed? i read a few times that ESO was called "The Elder Staffs Online", because the majority of players used Light Armor and Staffs, since Light armor gave you both offense and defense passive for magical, and all class-abilities where magical.
    Physical was split into Medium and Heavy Armor there, and only weapon abilities used them - so totally useless.

    1.6 will nerf dk a little. Also now you can find pretty strong stamuna builds.
    The last time i was in a dungeon, it was horrible.
    More based on luck and wipes than on skills. PVE overall was horrible through the balancing.
    A few Guildies played Craglorn (i had quit at that time), and they mentioned that its all but fun. Running hours towards the boss, wiping three times to start all over again.
    Any changes to that?

    I can't say that dungeons so hard now, but it depends of group.
    I was a Vampire, my friend was a WW.
    Vampire got some pretty nasty nerfs back then because of some PVP issues (armor effect stacking, unlimited batswarm spamming)
    Back then, they nerfed the Vampire instead of fixing the cost-reduction stacking.
    Werewolf was pretty much useless in PVE, since you could use your ulti like ones every half an hour, and you were weaker than with it, since your equipment was not scaling towards it.
    Any changes to that? is it viable now to play as a Vamp or WW besides the RP aspect?

    WW was buffed and now they are pretty useful.
    One thing that p****d me off pretty much. PVE balancing based on PVP flaws.
    Still a thing, or finally seperated?

    Still a thing.
    Nothing to say about it...what can you do now once you reached max rank?
    I read something about the champion point that will replace the veteran system.
    Since i finished every single quest back then...would that mean i have to grind a lot, while a VR1 can still earn points through quests?

    Daily quests, crafting writs, repeatable quests in Craglorn.
    Edited by AshySamurai on December 30, 2014 7:40PM
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Amsel_McKay
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    Not much has changed, you can dye your armor... I would wait until 1.6 has been out for a month before I came back. Its such a massive change that no one knows how the game will play.
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    Also another question that i forgot:
    Can you trade now? The old "Tradeguild" thing was just...no...
    I was a crafter, had all the styles and nearly all the effects...but i could not trade them because there was no Auctionary System.
    *snip*

    Thanks for that.
    Sounds interesting...maybe i can finally use my assassin then.
    Hope they fixed the Armor-System too.
    Also: can you tell me what they changed for the WW and Vamp exactly?
    Edited by Lazerus on December 30, 2014 7:44PM
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.
    2. Read the patch notes, they are always tweaking the balance. Still lots of skirts and sticks but update 1.6 will bring a big balance change to how weapons scale damage.
    3. Dungeons now scale to group leader level. Increases repeatability. Undaunted Daily dungeons were added as well.
    4. There are still bow wielding heavy armor mages and every other kind of hybrid build out there. Those who are maxing out and doing the "best in class" are sticking to the trinity though.
    5. WW is actually worth a shot now due to changes. Vamp was nerfed to oblivion and imho no longer worth the increase fire damage.
    6. Still trade guilds. though the pvp changes caused many to die off and left only a few active and very large ones. get into these and you can sell things. Trader kiosks are now public as well so much larger buyers market. There will never be an auction house in this game, the devs were very adamant about it.
    Edited by Cuyler on December 30, 2014 7:47PM
    Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
    CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
    "How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    Also another question that i forgot:
    Can you trade now? The old "Tradeguild" thing was just...no...
    I was a crafter, had all the styles and nearly all the effects...but i could not trade them because there was no Auctionary System.

    Trade system mostly the same. ZOS added guild kiosks, so anyone not from guild can buy from gold store.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    Sounds interesting...maybe i can finally use my assassin then.
    Hope they fixed the Armor-System too.
    Also: can you tell me what they changed for the WW and Vamp exactly?

    New skills for WW, such as self heal and attacks. Also you will get +15% stamina regen. ZOS currently looking on vamps.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    Cuyler wrote: »
    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.
    2. Read the patch notes, they are always tweaking the balance. Still lots of skirts and sticks but update 1.6 will bring a big balance change to how weapons scale damage.
    3. Dungeons now scale to group leader level. Increases repeatability. Undaunted Daily dungeons were added as well.
    4. There are still bow wielding heavy armor mages and every other kind of hybrid build out there. Those who are maxing out and doing the "best in class" are sticking to the trinity though.
    5. WW is actually worth a shot now due to changes. Vamp was nerfed to oblivion and imho no longer worth the increase fire damage.

    1. :(
    2. Yeah...thats why i asked, mostly i read about DK buffs^^
    3. Daily Dungeons...that sounds interesting
    4. Good to know, so playing a healer or a tank is a thing now?
    5. :( yeah...thought so. Vamp was nice to play at the beginning, maybe a bit too strong though. Still i would keep it, since i was always a Vampire-Thief in Elder Scrolls.
    Is it still possible to negate the fire-weakness through the fire-resi runes? Back then i had a few guildies who could stand in fire as a vampire without taking instakill damage.
    Sounds interesting...maybe i can finally use my assassin then.
    Hope they fixed the Armor-System too.
    Also: can you tell me what they changed for the WW and Vamp exactly?

    New skills for WW, such as self heal and attacks. Also you will get +15% stamina regen. ZOS currently looking on vamps.
    WOHOO
    Edited by Lazerus on December 30, 2014 7:49PM
  • TehMagnus
    TehMagnus
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    Don't play. Everything you do will be for nothing, game is basically rebooting at update 6. Come back at that point, game should be interesting.
    Edited by TehMagnus on December 30, 2014 7:51PM
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Don't play. Everything you do will be for nothing, game is basically rebooting at update 6. Come back at that point, game should be interesting.
    that was the plan^^
    Cuyler wrote: »
    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.

    But again to that:
    Does the Armor Reduce work now in PVE, or is it still bugged? (Mark of Death or whatever it was called)
    Edited by Lazerus on December 30, 2014 7:53PM
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Don't play. Everything you do will be for nothing, game is basically rebooting at update 6. Come back at that point, game should be interesting.
    that was the plan^^
    Cuyler wrote: »
    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.

    But again to that:
    Does the Armor Reduce work now in PVE, or is it still bugged? (Mark of Death or whatever it was called)

    I don't know for sure, but I think yes (if what I saw on youtube is true).
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Don't play. Everything you do will be for nothing, game is basically rebooting at update 6. Come back at that point, game should be interesting.
    that was the plan^^
    Cuyler wrote: »
    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.

    But again to that:
    Does the Armor Reduce work now in PVE, or is it still bugged? (Mark of Death or whatever it was called)

    I don't know for sure, but I think yes (if what I saw on youtube is true).

    can you send me a link to that?
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    Also maybe the most important question that i have missed:

    Is there even an active playerbase left?
    Or just a few big guilds ruling everything?
    The last thing i heard was, that a big french guild formed an alliance with some other guilds to rule PVP, where they just cycled through emperors. so only them could get that title, only the guy who was next in that cycle
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Most of the answers to your questions you get today, even when correct, will most likely be changed upside down as soon as we get our hands on the 1.6 patch notes :)
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Most of the answers to your questions you get today, even when correct, will most likely be changed upside down as soon as we get our hands on the 1.6 patch notes :)

    i hope so^^
    the game i played back then was..."not so great".
    but swtor was the same, unfinished release, but after after a year or so it turned out fun (sadly its p2w now)
    so i think ESO will do the same, release in a alpha-stage (i mean seriously, you have to admit that it was far from being finished^^) and finished game with 1.6

    i just hope it changes into a better game with working balance-system and those things.
    I still hope for a blocking-rework...still like the skyrim-system more (block to avoid light attacks, heavy attacks to counter blocking, bash to counter charging)
  • Amsel_McKay
    Amsel_McKay
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    Also maybe the most important question that i have missed:

    Is there even an active playerbase left?
    Or just a few big guilds ruling everything?
    The last thing i heard was, that a big french guild formed an alliance with some other guilds to rule PVP, where they just cycled through emperors. so only them could get that title, only the guy who was next in that cycle

    In some zones yes

    Guilds cant "rule" anything

    I would not be worried about a french guild as soon as a bigger guild comes around they will run away with white flags.
  • Lazerus
    Lazerus
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    Also maybe the most important question that i have missed:

    Is there even an active playerbase left?
    Or just a few big guilds ruling everything?
    The last thing i heard was, that a big french guild formed an alliance with some other guilds to rule PVP, where they just cycled through emperors. so only them could get that title, only the guy who was next in that cycle

    In some zones yes

    Guilds cant "rule" anything

    I would not be worried about a french guild as soon as a bigger guild comes around they will run away with white flags.
    thats the thing, one guild cant, but if several guilds form an alliance, an alliance that spreads over the different factions, where they manipulate the outcome of the pvp...then they can rule things^^
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    My NB just hit V14 yesterday and I'm having a blast.

    I never used Reaper's Mark and I don't use Shadowy disguise very often, so I can't tell you how well they are working.
    The Moot Councillor
  • Amsel_McKay
    Amsel_McKay
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    Also maybe the most important question that i have missed:

    Is there even an active playerbase left?
    Or just a few big guilds ruling everything?
    The last thing i heard was, that a big french guild formed an alliance with some other guilds to rule PVP, where they just cycled through emperors. so only them could get that title, only the guy who was next in that cycle

    In some zones yes

    Guilds cant "rule" anything

    I would not be worried about a french guild as soon as a bigger guild comes around they will run away with white flags.
    thats the thing, one guild cant, but if several guilds form an alliance, an alliance that spreads over the different factions, where they manipulate the outcome of the pvp...then they can rule things^^

    "Rule" pffft the current PVP system it does not really matter.
  • Lynx7386
    Lynx7386
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    I can relate, a bit. My main was a nightblade from early access through to about 4-5 months ago when I quit, and I just recently returned to ESO earlier this month.

    Nightblades are definitely better off now, but it's more because of changes to medium armor and weapon skills than from changes to the class. The old buggy nightblade abilities are still old and buggy (cloak especially), but we can get around it now by simply using better abilities from weapon lines. My nightblade, for example, is running now with 4/5 hotbar slots occupied by weapon abilities and doing fine.

    Medium armor gives equal boosts to stamina recovery and stamina cost reduction that light armor gives to magicka recovery and magicka cost reduction. It still gives good bonuses to weapon critical, and now the 5 piece bonus for medium armor provides a boost to weapon damage. The two handed line has been vastly improved, with buffs to momentum/rally and execute as well as the passives. Dual wield is about the same as it used to be, though the medium armor buffs help it perform better.
    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • kieso
    kieso
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    wait another 3 months. :\
  • Drasn
    Drasn
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    - Is Nightblade finally fixed?
    Back when i played, nothing (i mean seriously nothing) worked.
    The whole "Armor Reduce" system from NB didnt work, since PVE had no armor for the poor NPCs it seems.
    "Stealth" didnt work with DoT effects, Archers in PVP could still hit you when you used the cloak, not to mention the "hivemind effect" (one guy sees you, everyone sees you)
    There were probably more...but those are the ones i can still remember.

    Mark Target and other armor penetration abilities do work in PVE.

    DoTs, even your own can still pull you out of stealth last I checked.
    - Any changes in balancing?
    Another thing from the past.
    Back then, the strongest weapon was a shield (the bash), the best tank was a NB with healerstaff, and the best everything was DK.
    Has this changed? i read a few times that ESO was called "The Elder Staffs Online", because the majority of players used Light Armor and Staffs, since Light armor gave you both offense and defense passive for magical, and all class-abilities where magical.
    Physical was split into Medium and Heavy Armor there, and only weapon abilities used them - so totally useless.

    They have been trying to balance.
    However:
    Nightblades and DK's are by far the top DD classes, with sorcs and templars way behind.

    For tanking I would put DK's and Templars nearly equal(DK's get the edge with chains and OH-POO armor.) Nightblades aren't far behind(this will most likely change with them possibly loosing their stam regen buff and ultimate generation changes.) Sorcs fall behind here because of a lack of tanking skills and passives.(Self-heal(they do have a gimmicky self-heal with a certain armor set), stam and or health regen, etc.)

    For healing templars are the best burst and over-healers, nightblades and sorcs are good for overtime healing(nightblades get edge because of veil's group mitigation) with DK's bringing up the rear for raw healing, however they have some decent group mitigation tools that helps their healing potential.

    Other things:
    -Bash was nerfed hard, even with the passives it's not that great for damage anymore.
    -Without passives a staff can still block just as well as a shield.
    -Light armor is still the best armor for buffing and mitigating magic attacks.
    -Heavy armor can hard cap both physical and magical mitigation.
    -Medium armor got some buffs in regards to physical damage.
    -Stamina builds are very viable now their only drawback being ultimate generation(this is being changed in 1.6 with nerfs to ultimate gen across the board.)

    - What about Dungeons?
    The last time i was in a dungeon, it was horrible.
    More based on luck and wipes than on skills. PVE overall was horrible through the balancing.
    A few Guildies played Craglorn (i had quit at that time), and they mentioned that its all but fun. Running hours towards the boss, wiping three times to start all over again.
    Any changes to that?

    I'm not sure what to say here, dungeons in this game have never been hard if you were in a group that understood the mechanics of the fights.

    They did change dungeons to a scaling system so that they are always the same level as the group's leader. Some people claim this made the dungeons harder but again I point to the fact that once you know the mechanics most of the encounters are a joke.

    Craglorn- if you are refering to trials then they haven't changed much except adding more lives. But both AA and HRC can be finished in around 15-20 minutes in a bad group so I'm not sure why it was taking them hours... The serpent trial is more difficult mechanic wise and a bad group won't make it past the first boss, however once you get that down the rest isn't too bad once mechanics are learned.
    - What about the "holy trinity"
    I know, we never had the classical "Tank, Healer, DD" and yeah...i have seen what happened, as mentioned above.
    The strongest Tank i have ever seen was a Lightarmored NB with Healerstaff, the best DD was a guy with a shield, Stealth was completely useless and DK could do everything.

    A lot of the content can still be tanked in light armor, however this may change with 1.6 and champion system. The best DD is destro staff(crushing spam), duel wield(rapid strikes spam), and both bow and two-hand(usually a mixture of the two) are viable.

    Stealth is still pretty useless for group content.
    - Vampire and Werewolves
    I was a Vampire, my friend was a WW.
    Vampire got some pretty nasty nerfs back then because of some PVP issues (armor effect stacking, unlimited batswarm spamming)
    Back then, they nerfed the Vampire instead of fixing the cost-reduction stacking.
    Werewolf was pretty much useless in PVE, since you could use your ulti like ones every half an hour, and you were weaker than with it, since your equipment was not scaling towards it.
    Any changes to that? is it viable now to play as a Vamp or WW besides the RP aspect?

    Sorc Vampires can still get bat-swarm down to around 100 ultimate, however the healing from the ability was nerfed. Right now the 15% magicka and stamina regen buff and the stealth speed increase are about the only reasons to go vamp.

    Werewolf got some pretty good buffs and abilities, however its still not that great. The only real reason to go WW is as a tank for the 15% stam regen and the slotted ultimate regen.
    - Balancing based on PVP - Still a thing?
    One thing that p****d me off pretty much. PVE balancing based on PVP flaws.
    Still a thing, or finally seperated?

    Still a thing and will always be a thing.
    - What about the endgame?
    Nothing to say about it...what can you do now once you reached max rank?
    I read something about the champion point that will replace the veteran system.
    Since i finished every single quest back then...would that mean i have to grind a lot, while a VR1 can still earn points through quests?

    Craglorn has repeatable quests, crafting writs can be done once a day(per craft), undaunted pledges(1 regular and 1 vet per day), trials, pvp.

    As it looks right now, yes you will be grinding a lot to earn the champion points. Depends on ZoS idea of XP balance.
  • abigfishy
    abigfishy
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    1) NB is much better maybe the second best class now.
    2) Stealth is good and there is an option to remove a dot but too many dots is still an issue.
    3) Strongest weapon now is clearly staff lol at shield. Strongest tank is always with a shield. DK is probably still best at everything except healing where Templar still has the edge. There are viable bow/stamina builds now that use medium armour for massive critical hits.
    4) Dungoens are great and with the Undaunted Pledges they are more popular than ever. Craglorn still sucks.
    5) Holy Trinity. No way a NB light armour tank with resto staff and a shield weilding DPS would beat a heavy armour Templar Tank with a shield and a DK with light armour and staff as DPS.
    6) Vampires are still good but now WW are actually good and fun to play a MASSIVE improvement there.
    7) PvP balancing not so good but a bit better.
    8) Endgame there are trials, Undaunted Pledges, daily quests in Cyrodill and PvP.
    Level 50 Characters
    USA
    Odette Skullcrusher Nord DK EP Tank
    Hannah Smithee Breton Templar DC Healer
    Charlotte of the Wild Bosmer NB EP DPS
    Rabbath Amman Dark Elf Sorc EP DPS
    Lovely Twinkle High Elf Sorc AD Tank
    Nepith Dark Elf Warden EP Healer
    Tupac Shakoor Redguard Sorc DC Tank
    Faire the Last Snow Elf Altmer Warden EP Ice Staff Tank
    EU
    Soul-Shriven Breton Sorc DC DPS
    Makush gro-Shurgal Orc DK DC Tank
    Cleopatra Tharn Imperial Sorc EP Healer
    Daenerys Targaryin Nord Templar DC Healer
    Zar Saarshar Khajiit NB DC Thief
    Celrith High Elf Sorc EP Assassin
    Falcar Dark Elf NB DC Necromancer
    Myriam Blaylock Breton NB EP Vampire
    Nivrillin Wood Elf NB DC Werewolf
  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    I honestly don't think you should base your decision about renewing a sub on "is my class stronger now, is the game easier now, will I have this or that". MMOs change all the time, what´s overpowered now can be weak a few weeks later.

    But if we talk about weak and strong, then those are just a few %, nothing dramatic anyways. The things you mentioned were never a big deal, I was able to play just fine with a Templar for instance. This is a RP after all, not a shooter where everything must be equally strong.

    You need to ask yourself this, do you want to play a game with lovely graphics, good lore and differences in class & faction design? Then give ESO a chance.

    If you however only want to play ESO if your class or spec is the best, then there are other games out there that offer this, like CS or TF2.
    Edited by Audigy on December 30, 2014 11:52PM
  • Silica.Kun
    well they did add a few more VR tiers. Night Blade, I think is fixed.
    Yours truly, Kea'ra
    Female-Proud DC Member
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Don't play. Everything you do will be for nothing, game is basically rebooting at update 6. Come back at that point, game should be interesting.
    that was the plan^^
    Cuyler wrote: »
    1. NBs are still buggy but have had improvements to the skills that were breaking.

    But again to that:
    Does the Armor Reduce work now in PVE, or is it still bugged? (Mark of Death or whatever it was called)

    I don't know for sure, but I think yes (if what I saw on youtube is true).

    can you send me a link to that?

    Well, last time I saw it in this stamina guide video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWhVHvyLSes
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
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