What happens to the hundreds of vr1+ items when vr goes away?

Wolfenbelle · December 2014

Mats
Glyphs
Jewelry
Dropped Sets
Non-set Dropped Weapons and Armor
Crafting Above Level 50
Food
Potions
Purple and Yellow Items (most people don't use until they reach vr1+)

Do all these vr1+ items become unusable when the veteran rank system goes away? If yes, will there be any kind of compensation for players who:

Farm vr1+ items to trade or sell in guild stores?
Depend on guild stores supply these items?
Craft vr1+ items? Will we only be able to craft to level 50?
Save such items in their banks and bags?

If vr1+ items do not become unusable, will their qualities/traits be scaled back to level 50? Should we be stocking up on level 50 stuff now?

In general, what does knocking everyone back to level 50 do to the game's economy. Far as I know, ZOS has not addressed these questions anywhere. If they have, I hope someone can point me to where ZOS provided the relevant information.

Sharee · December 2014

Aside from VR1 items no longer being called VR1 items, nothing else will change.

A vr1 dagger will do 150 damage, a vr14 version of the same dagger will do 200 damage. You can still use both.

(i guess there is a change since former vr1 character will be able to use former vr14 items, but that's it)

Robocles · December 2014

Short answer: They don't know. Heck, they barely know how they are going to work the new Champion Hamster Wheel.

Amsel_McKay · December 2014

After the game blows up with 1.6 they will start working on 1.7 I have a feeling they dont really know yet.

Wolfenbelle · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Aside from VR1 items no longer being called VR1 items, nothing else will change.

A vr1 dagger will do 150 damage, a vr14 version of the same dagger will do 200 damage. You can still use both.

Can you provide a link to where ZOS said this will be the case? Thanks.

CP5 · December 2014

Okay, so that’s interesting, so to be clear: suppose that you had a VR1 Fang of the Viper dagger that you got from your first Cadwell’s Silver zone and you also had a VR14 version that you got out of Sanctum Ophidia, there’s still going to be a differential tier of power once between those two items once Veteran Ranks are fully removed?

EW: Yeah, so you would have those two daggers and one would just say it has 200 Attack Power whereas one would only have 150 or something like that. It’s kind-of like item levels, but the infrastructure and stuff to do that is a significant rework of the systems and we just wanted to get new content and new stuff for people to do as soon as possible

From : http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/

Edit miss quote

Sharee · December 2014

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Aside from VR1 items no longer being called VR1 items, nothing else will change.

A vr1 dagger will do 150 damage, a vr14 version of the same dagger will do 200 damage. You can still use both.

Can you provide a link to where ZOS said this will be the case? Thanks.

Tamriel foundry interview with Eric Wrobel: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/

EW: So the plan when we convert all of the items over is that you’ll be able to wear all of those items and they will still have a progression, but you will just need to be level 50 to use them. So you’ll still be able use all of the gear, but there will be a sort of hidden power level on equipment which creates tiers of strength similar to what it is now, so it shouldn’t actually be a huge re-balancing effort.

EW: Yeah, so you would have those two daggers and one would just say it has 200 Attack Power whereas one would only have 150 or something like that. It’s kind-of like item levels, but the infrastructure and stuff to do that is a significant rework of the systems and we just wanted to get new content and new stuff for people to do as soon as possible

Wolfenbelle · December 2014

@CP5 - Thanks for the link. I'm going to paste the entire section from that Q&A for everyone who might read this thread, and am going to bold the most significant points (Note - EW is Eric Wrobel of Zenimax):

EW: Yeah so, the biggest thing specifically with the veteran ranks is that all the itemization is really deeply tied to that, all the progression, and it’s just that it would have taken us significantly longer to put this patch out to you guys if we had spent the time to re-code a bunch of stuff and retest it and redo the progression. We wanted to get people to use the Champion System as soon as possible and experience it because it’s really cool and it’s a fun way to customize your character.

Q: Is content going to need to be re-balanced when the Veteran Ranks are removed, or is new scaling system going to do most of that work for you?

EW: So the plan when we convert all of the items over is that you’ll be able to wear all of those items and they will still have a progression, but you will just need to be level 50 to use them. So you’ll still be able use all of the gear, but there will be a sort of hidden power level on equipment which creates tiers of strength similar to what it is now, so it shouldn’t actually be a huge re-balancing effort.

Q: Okay, so that’s interesting, so to be clear: suppose that you had a VR1 Fang of the Viper dagger that you got from your first Cadwell’s Silver zone and you also had a VR14 version that you got out of Sanctum Ophidia, there’s still going to be a differential tier of power once between those two items once Veteran Ranks are fully removed?

EW: Yeah, so you would have those two daggers and one would just say it has 200 Attack Power whereas one would only have 150 or something like that. It’s kind of like item levels, but the infrastructure and stuff to do that is a significant rework of the systems and we just wanted to get new content and new stuff for people to do as soon as possible

Q: Will there be anything visible to the player to see that one item is better than the other, or by how much? How will the interface communicate that a certain item is a higher level version?

EW: Yeah, we’re still working on that part of it, which is why it’s not released yet, so there are still some questions exactly what will be displayed and how that will look.

My response to the above is that @ZOS is not investing the time to recode all the hundreds of vr1+ items (for now), but they will overlay the new rework of the game (CP system) on top of those items. They also are "working on" how to let players know the differences between items. If all of this stuff eventually works without causing more of a mess, then this player gap ZOS is so worried about that they are introducing CP will still exist to a considerable degree.

Rev Rielle · December 2014

Let's hope whatever they do they keep in mind crafting investment and keep it relevant. It's already being left behind (you level it to 50 then forget about it) and that's a worrying sign for the future.

The reality is that some things were said on ESO Live, but they were so general that none of us really know yet the finer points. Additionally everything is subject to change anyways (as they said on ESO Live too), so as others have said above here already; we'll just have to wait and see.

Woolenthreads · December 2014

It seems to me that they could just tie the stats to the material that it's created out of with a material requirement increase. So something made out of Kresh won't be as powerful as something made out of Ironthread, which in turn isn't as good as Silverweave, which is worse than Void Cloth.

Doesn't seem like it should be an issue to me.

Rev Rielle · December 2014

Woolenthreads wrote: »

It seems to me that they could just tie the stats to the material that it's created out of with a material requirement increase. So something made out of Kresh won't be as powerful as something made out of Ironthread, which in turn isn't as good as Silverweave, which is worse than Void Cloth.

Doesn't seem like it should be an issue to me.

True, the only issue I can see with doing it this way is that (using your example) basically everyone would immediately use Void Cloth on reaching level 50 if they were able to, making the lesser cloths largely useless.

A somewhat similar thing happened in EQ2: In the beginning you could craft varying qualities of the same item depending upon how successful you were with the crafting process. However next to no one would use the lesser quality items, and in the end development (rightly so) removed them from the game.

It will be interesting to see what ESO do, and if in fact when the new system is critiqued it is actually significantly different than what we have now. Time will tell.

Moonshadow66 · December 2014

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

After the game blows up with 1.6 they will start working on 1.7 I have a feeling they dont really know yet.

You forgot the 27 patches inbetween to fix update 6

KBKB · December 2014

Lack of transparency from ZOS is awful so many unanswered questions, and every patch they create more! Instead of cherry picking questions and getting bias interviewers they should let each player ask 5 questions to a dev (aware this would be a logistical nightmare but CS reps could handle most questions) Its about time they started treating their paying beta testers a little better!

Pallmor · December 2014

When 1.7 hits, all VR2-VR14 weapons and armors will join their ancestors in Sovngarde, where they will drink mead all day and rejoice their fellow weapons and armors with stories of their proud deeds!

Woolenthreads · December 2014

KBKB wrote: »

Lack of transparency from ZOS is awful so many unanswered questions, and every patch they create more! Instead of cherry picking questions and getting bias interviewers they should let each player ask 5 questions to a dev (aware this would be a logistical nightmare but CS reps could handle most questions) Its about time they started treating their paying beta testers a little better!

ROFLMAO. I joined the "Elite: Dangerous" Forums and one of the first threads I read had people decrying the company's "lack of communication with players"

. Now I think that, every time I see a complaint of this sort, I'm simply going to LOL. *shakes head* I think players these days think they are entitled to answers for whatever, relative to the game, is on their mind.

Hanokihs · December 2014

Woolenthreads wrote: »

It seems to me that they could just tie the stats to the material that it's created out of with a material requirement increase. So something made out of Kresh won't be as powerful as something made out of Ironthread, which in turn isn't as good as Silverweave, which is worse than Void Cloth.

Doesn't seem like it should be an issue to me.

If they're all available at 50, however, nobody will use anything except Void Cloth, because it's the best. The only thing stopping vet-players from using it right now, is the level requirement; without that, all the other stuff is obsolete.

Why they can't just scale all the materials down is beyond me. Keep V14 items at Lv50, and push everything back. That would be the easiest method (minus a mass nakedness event when everyone's gear is unequipped because the levels don't sync), and would make the most sense.

abigfishy · January 2015

Hanokihs wrote: »

If they're all available at 50, however, nobody will use anything except Void Cloth, because it's the best. The only thing stopping vet-players from using it right now, is the level requirement; without that, all the other stuff is obsolete.

Why they can't just scale all the materials down is beyond me. Keep V14 items at Lv50, and push everything back. That would be the easiest method (minus a mass nakedness event when everyone's gear is unequipped because the levels don't sync), and would make the most sense.

I can't remember how many but I think there are around 8 or 9 tiers or materials currently.
1-15
16-31
32-?
?-?
?-50
V1-3
V4-6
V7-8
V9+

I think that is far too many for just levels 1-50. 5-6 would be enough. It would also be a solution to some inventory issues by removing 4 tiers or raw and refined materials x 3 types = 24 extra inventory for everyone. That is not counting extra stacks let alone the savings with enchanting, provisioning and to a lesser extent alchemy.

One solution to the nakedness/useless gear issue would be if there was a once off opportunity when you first log in to change the level of your gear to suit your character. When you log in you would get a message, "Do you want your gear to be levelled to your characters current level?"

Hanokihs · January 2015

I'm a clothier, so what I see currently is:

Jute:1-14 | Flax:16-24 | Cotton: 26-34 | Spidersilk: 36-44
Ebonthread: 46-50 | Kresh: V1-3 | Ironthread: V4-6 | Silverweave: V7-8
Voidcloth: 9-14

There's probably equally as many items in the other armor/weapon trades, and I agree, that's WAY too many. They could just delete every other material (give or take) and still have a good system. I can't even argue that removing some of the middle junk would hurt the kiosk economy, because most people only deal with the two lowest/highest grades of material anyway.

abigfishy · January 2015

Hanokihs wrote: »

I can't even argue that removing some of the middle junk would hurt the kiosk economy, because most people only deal with the two lowest/highest grades of material anyway.

Thanks and you are so right. While I regularly sell Jute or Voidcloth for 800-1200 a stack I can't even move Kresh for 500 a stack.

Hanokihs · January 2015

abigfishy wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

I can't even argue that removing some of the middle junk would hurt the kiosk economy, because most people only deal with the two lowest/highest grades of material anyway.

Thanks and you are so right. While I regularly sell Jute or Voidcloth for 800-1200 a stack I can't even move Kresh for 500 a stack.

And you know what makes that suck the most? Crafting Writs, man. I did three that required Kresh, and it immediately moved me up to Void Cloth, in Craglorn. My character is still at V2; there's no good excuse for this. If the system was in any way an attempt to show the mid-range mats some love, they blew it - big time.

Woolenthreads · January 2015

Hanokihs wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

It seems to me that they could just tie the stats to the material that it's created out of with a material requirement increase. So something made out of Kresh won't be as powerful as something made out of Ironthread, which in turn isn't as good as Silverweave, which is worse than Void Cloth.

Doesn't seem like it should be an issue to me.

If they're all available at 50, however, nobody will use anything except Void Cloth, because it's the best. The only thing stopping vet-players from using it right now, is the level requirement; without that, all the other stuff is obsolete.

Why they can't just scale all the materials down is beyond me. Keep V14 items at Lv50, and push everything back. That would be the easiest method (minus a mass nakedness event when everyone's gear is unequipped because the levels don't sync), and would make the most sense.

They will probably tie the materials to the champion wheel with prereqs. So for, instance, The "tower" constellation might hold the "wear better armour" perks with each level requiring prereqs from other constellations.

EQBallzz · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Aside from VR1 items no longer being called VR1 items, nothing else will change.

A vr1 dagger will do 150 damage, a vr14 version of the same dagger will do 200 damage. You can still use both.

(i guess there is a change since former vr1 character will be able to use former vr14 items, but that's it)

Uhh..that doesn't answer the question. It says nothing about the crafting points spent in crafting levels beyond 50 or the materials gathered for vet levels between v1 and v14. They have said nothing about how this will work.

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Let's hope whatever they do they keep in mind crafting investment and keep it relevant. It's already being left behind (you level it to 50 then forget about it) and that's a worrying sign for the future.

The reality is that some things were said on ESO Live, but they were so general that none of us really know yet the finer points. Additionally everything is subject to change anyways (as they said on ESO Live too), so as others have said above here already; we'll just have to wait and see.

You really think they will "keep in mind crafting investment"? They aren't keeping in mind the leveling investment for veteran characters so why would they for crafting? I suppose they will allow you to just visit a crafting table and be max level crafting (for new players only of course).

wafcatb14_ESO · January 2015

Sounds like they really have no clue wtf they are doing, and are just winging it until they get consel game out as a cash grab. while they try and figure out what to do to keep the money rolling in off subs .