What would you think of Trader Kiosks being Faction Locked?

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

This would effectively triple the amount of kiosks that could be bid upon and limit the sales from each kiosk to the faction that owns it, even in VR Zones, if your faction is AD, let's say, even if you're in a DC Vet zone, your items would only be available to the AD Factions. Anyone? It cuts down the whole Mega Server Auction House nonsense and opens up more bids on existing kiosk locations.

BEZDNA · December 2014

BAD IDEA!

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

BEZDNA wrote: »

BAD IDEA!

Explain why it's a bad idea. Otherwise your post is just trolling all CAPS!

Drasn · December 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHmJBeulKoM

I want to buy loots from all the factions. If you want more kiosks tell some of the guilds that buy kiosks and leave them empty to stop wasting their money and our time.

AshySamurai · December 2014

Bad idea because now all able to trade with any player. It also make some traders more viable.

redspecter23 · December 2014

1/3rd of the total potential buyers sounds like reason enough to not be interested in the idea. Also, AD with the higher population wins out big time. You'll have a pile of trade guilds very upset that their icon places them in DC or EP instead of AD where they could be making more gold.

This sort of conflict is part of the can of worms you open up by faction locking the system. Nobody in DC wants to have a kiosk in vet Rift for example if the only players that can look at it are vet DC players. You say you triple the options but the best locations will still be in the home faction area where you can have more access to non vets and people that just plain skipped cadwell's gold.

So in short, you theoretically triple the number of spots, but those extra spots are all bad as they are vet only and you lessen the potential sales of the kiosks that remain by disallowing other factions to access them. Double whammy.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

redspecter23 wrote: »

1/3rd of the total potential buyers sounds like reason enough to not be interested in the idea. Also, AD with the higher population wins out big time. You'll have a pile of trade guilds very upset that their icon places them in DC or EP instead of AD where they could be making more gold.

This sort of conflict is part of the can of worms you open up by faction locking the system. Nobody in DC wants to have a kiosk in vet Rift for example if the only players that can look at it are vet DC players. You say you triple the options but the best locations will still be in the home faction area where you can have more access to non vets and people that just plain skipped cadwell's gold.

You are completely ignoring the fact that most players have alts in all three factions so, no, you're really not loosing any customers and smaller guilds are gaining the option of having a kiosk to bid on.

redspecter23 wrote: »

So in short, you theoretically triple the number of spots, but those extra spots are all bad as they are vet only and you lessen the potential sales of the kiosks that remain by disallowing other factions to access them. Double whammy.

I've made plenty of sales in out of the way Kiosk locations so your assumption that these spots are bad is way off base, I know plenty of smaller guilds that would love the option of having ANY location to bid on as opposed to no location whatsoever!

redspecter23 · December 2014

Tooning to another faction alt isn't elegant. Not all players have alts on all factions (even fewer have cadwell's gold completed on a toon in each faction to unlock all kiosks) and I'm pretty sure those that currently don't have them will not be too keen on rolling them with the specific purpose of "kiosk runner".

Sometimes an idea just isn't popular for a variety of reasons. You've said your idea so accept the reasons others are posting that they may not like it.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

redspecter23 wrote: »

Tooning to another faction alt isn't elegant. Not all players have alts on all factions and I'm pretty sure those that currently don't have them will not be too keen on rolling them with the specific purpose of "kiosk runner".

Sometimes an idea just isn't popular for a variety of reasons. You've said your idea so accept the reasons others are posting that they may not like it.

Doesn't matter. They have the OPTION of having alts in all factions where as right now, smaller guilds have NO OPTIONS to win any kiosk bids! And sorry, I've seen what? Two people give actual reasons that they say it's a bad idea. Two more simply shout stupid or bad. I in no way have to "Accept" that your reasons are either good or even valid.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

I don't understand what ZOS wants from the alliance business. At first glance it looks like a PvP only thing since you can still be in the same guilds with people in other alliances, but then you can't actually PvE with them which makes being in the same guild utterly pointless except for trading and shenanigans with "traitorous" alts.

IMO they should either go all the way or not at all. Completely segregate the alliances, OR make PvE grouping work cross-alliance.

redspecter23 · December 2014

You don't have to accept my ideas for them to be valid

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I don't understand what ZOS wants from the alliance business. At first glance it looks like a PvP only thing since you can still be in the same guilds with people in other alliances, but then you can't actually PvE with them which makes being in the same guild utterly pointless except for trading and shenanigans with "traitorous" alts.

IMO they should either go all the way or not at all. Completely segregate the alliances, OR make PvE grouping work cross-alliance.

That's another whole can of worms that would take an entire thread to discuss. I won't even start to address multifaction guild mayhem here.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

redspecter23 wrote: »

You don't have to accept my ideas for them to be valid

No but they have to make sense and currently, they do not!

redspecter23 · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

You don't have to accept my ideas for them to be valid

No but they have to make sense and currently, they do not!

I think my ideas make sense and yours do not.

I suppose we'll agree to disagree.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

redspecter23 wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

You don't have to accept my ideas for them to be valid

No but they have to make sense and currently, they do not!

I think my ideas make sense and yours do not.

I suppose we'll agree to disagree.

Fine. You gave your arguments which logically fall down because of the reasons I have given you and instead of giving me logical rebuttle you just entrench yourself in your position. That's fine. You haven't shown me how my arguments fall down in a single instance, you basically just came to the thread to shout me down, call me wrong and tell me to shut up as far as I can tell. Not really a winning argument.

In short, I don't mind being told I'm wrong, but you are obligated to tell me EXACTLY how I am wrong and convince me of it. Otherwise you're just here to bully me into submission.

AshySamurai · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

1/3rd of the total potential buyers sounds like reason enough to not be interested in the idea. Also, AD with the higher population wins out big time. You'll have a pile of trade guilds very upset that their icon places them in DC or EP instead of AD where they could be making more gold.

This sort of conflict is part of the can of worms you open up by faction locking the system. Nobody in DC wants to have a kiosk in vet Rift for example if the only players that can look at it are vet DC players. You say you triple the options but the best locations will still be in the home faction area where you can have more access to non vets and people that just plain skipped cadwell's gold.

You are completely ignoring the fact that most players have alts in all three factions so, no, you're really not loosing any customers and smaller guilds are gaining the option of having a kiosk to bid on.

redspecter23 wrote: »

So in short, you theoretically triple the number of spots, but those extra spots are all bad as they are vet only and you lessen the potential sales of the kiosks that remain by disallowing other factions to access them. Double whammy.

I've made plenty of sales in out of the way Kiosk locations so your assumption that these spots are bad is way off base, I know plenty of smaller guilds that would love the option of having ANY location to bid on as opposed to no location whatsoever!

So you want not only jump through all map, but also to jump through all factions?

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

Wow. Poor loser too! Nice job Redspecter23! Real mature of you to kick me out of a guild for disagreeing with you. How dare I!

Drasn · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Tooning to another faction alt isn't elegant. Not all players have alts on all factions and I'm pretty sure those that currently don't have them will not be too keen on rolling them with the specific purpose of "kiosk runner".

Sometimes an idea just isn't popular for a variety of reasons. You've said your idea so accept the reasons others are posting that they may not like it.

Doesn't matter. They have the OPTION of having alts in all factions where as right now, smaller guilds have NO OPTIONS to win any kiosk bids! And sorry, I've seen what? Two people give actual reasons that they say it's a bad idea. Two more simply shout stupid or bad. I in no way have to "Accept" that your reasons are either good or even valid.

Smaller guilds have the same OPTIONS as larger guilds to bid on the kiosk. You may not be able to raise gold in the same manner or as efficiently as they do, however that was the OPTION you choose when running/joining a smaller guild.

Your proposal takes away 2/3 + of the market with regards to buying and selling, it would also have an adverse effect on many of the trade guild's member base as now people would have to join one trade guild per faction for the purpose of selling to everyone.

There are also many players who I'm sure simply don't want to have 2 character slots wasted on other factions alts simply for going from kiosk to kiosk.

Also, shopping for specific items is already a pain and overly time consuming with how horrible and spread out the system is in it's current iteration, yet your proposal would spread it out even more.

There are already plenty of useless/empty traders currently and your suggestion yet again creates even more of that.

Just because you want something to happen and think it's the best idea ever to fix YOUR problem, doesn't mean that it's implementation won't make things worse off for far more people than you think it will help.

Divad Zarn · December 2014

Bad idea, first of all there are enough kiosks around already, making them x3 more just stupid, second point is, that multifraction trading guilds will be simply destroyed, my guild ~97% of members are from covenant, as well as guild based here, but i know ALOT of (maybe most of them) trading guilds, which merge in themselves traders and players from all fractions, it will bring alot of rage from players and ZOS dont need that for sure, they done many stupid things already to add this one in their carma.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Smaller guilds have the same OPTIONS as larger guilds to bid on the kiosk. You may not be able to raise gold in the same manner or as efficiently as they do, however that was the OPTION you choose when running/joining a smaller guild.

That's not a valid reason. People join guilds hoping they will grow, but let me tell you, most of the onus for them growing falls on the GM and 99% of your player base won't bother helping the guild grow by inviting new members. Been there, done that. Redspecter23 also just proved why large trade guilds are not always the best for everyone. We had a forum disagreement and rather than just agreeing to disagree, he penalized me by removing me from a guild that I was participating in and selling in, costing me the investment of my listing fees. Very immature for a GM. Also pretty much the behavior I've come to expect from the large trade guilds.

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Your proposal takes away 2/3 + of the market with regards to buying and selling, it would also have an adverse effect on many of the trade guild's member base as now people would have to join one trade guild per faction for the purpose of selling to everyone.

Again a fallacy here. Most trade guilds ARE Multifaction and you can be in 5 guilds. All you need are one in each faction, which frankly most people already do anyway! It doesn't take away 2/3rds of the market but it does give 2/3rds more access to the global market!

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

There are also many players who I'm sure simply don't want to have 2 character slots wasted on other factions alts simply for going from kiosk to kiosk.

No you are not. you can't honestly claim to speak for anyone but yourself here and the few other negative responders to this thread.

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

There are already plenty of useless/empty traders currently and your suggestion yet again creates even more of that.

Show me ONE trader that is always empty! When people find empty traders, they outbid the owners.

Drasn · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Smaller guilds have the same OPTIONS as larger guilds to bid on the kiosk. You may not be able to raise gold in the same manner or as efficiently as they do, however that was the OPTION you choose when running/joining a smaller guild.

That's not a valid reason. People join guilds hoping they will grow, but let me tell you, most of the onus for them growing falls on the GM and 99% of your player base won't bother helping the guild grow by inviting new members. Been there, done that. Redspecter23 also just proved why large trade guilds are not always the best for everyone. We had a forum disagreement and rather than just agreeing to disagree, he penalized me by removing me from a guild that I was participating in and selling in, costing me the investment of my listing fees. Very immature for a GM. Also pretty much the behavior I've come to expect from the large trade guilds.

You say this reason is not valid yet I was simply stating that you do have options when you said you have none.

To me, your reasoning that everyone should be FORCED to roll two alts and level them both to at least Cadwell's Gold content to have access to all traders is not valid.

Many people that play MMO's like to play with the same people on a regular basis and as such have alts that can also play with those same people. In a faction based game this means most will primarily stick to one faction.

Though I will state that my point is very valid, it doesn't matter if you agree or not: smaller guilds have the same OPTION to bid as a larger guilds. Even in the larger guilds a lot of the gold comes from someone's pocket. Find a backer.

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Your proposal takes away 2/3 + of the market with regards to buying and selling, it would also have an adverse effect on many of the trade guild's member base as now people would have to join one trade guild per faction for the purpose of selling to everyone.

Again a fallacy here. Most trade guilds ARE Multifaction and you can be in 5 guilds. All you need are one in each faction, which frankly most people already do anyway! It doesn't take away 2/3rds of the market but it does give 2/3rds more access to the global market!

I'll point you down to your response of my next argument: You can't honestly claim to speak for anyone buy yourself and the few other.... wait no one has agreed with you yet.

My point stands, you would still have to join a trade guild based in each faction just to sell to everyone. Buying from everyone becomes more difficult as you now have to roll two alts and level them both into Cadwell's gold to have access to a traders.

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

There are also many players who I'm sure simply don't want to have 2 character slots wasted on other factions alts simply for going from kiosk to kiosk.

No you are not. you can't honestly claim to speak for anyone but yourself here and the few other negative responders to this thread.

You're right, I can't speak for everyone, but: do you honestly believe that the vast majority of people have a toon in all 3 factions leveled to Cadwell's Gold content?

The answer is no.

You have a lot of straw-man arguments. You say I can't speak for others when my argument doesn't support your point of view, yet you try to speak for others in nearly every argument that you make.

Bottom line is that I don't think it matters what anyone says, valid or not, you will shoot it down as fallacy if it does not support your view.

Protip: Some ideas are just bad. You can fight for them all you want and spin words to make them look better but it doesn't change the fact that its a bad idea.

Tavore1138 · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

No you are not. you can't honestly claim to speak for anyone but yourself here and the few other negative responders to this thread.

But ALL the responses so far have been negative to your suggestion (with just one that could optimistically be defined as neutral) so unless you are postulating a very silent majority who support this idea but are maintaining a stubborn silence this is not a popular idea so far.

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Again a fallacy here. Most trade guilds ARE Multifaction and you can be in 5 guilds. All you need are one in each faction, which frankly most people already do anyway! It doesn't take away 2/3rds of the market but it does give 2/3rds more access to the global market!

It is not fallacy - any guild, even one with members in many factions, bidding on a single store would have access to only one faction thus reducing it's possible customers to around 1/3rd of the current. Unless you are suggesting that a guild can have more than one store, in which case it would have to bid to win a store in each alliance to maintain the same potential customer base.

An individual player could cherry pick 3 trade guilds to find one with a store in each of the 3 areas and thus in theory have access to the full player base BUT could still only put an item on sale in one guild's store so would still only be seen by 1/3rd of possible players.

And this assumes that a player has 3 slots to devote to trade guilds and does not prefer to use them for friend, PvE or PvP guilds - which personally I do.

As a customer of guild shops this would also reduce my buying choices to those having a store in my faction areas whereas right now I can get cross faction goods at any store.

If lack of stores is a problem for smaller guilds then a far better option, IMO, is simply to open more store locations in game towns and villages that do not currently have them.

Ahdora · December 2014

Where is the data to back up your claim that "most players" have characters in each faction? I do not, and have no desire to. The vast majority of the people that I play with are also loyal to a single faction.

The points made above for why this isn't the best idea are valid.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · December 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHmJBeulKoM

I want to buy loots from all the factions. If you want more kiosks tell some of the guilds that buy kiosks and leave them empty to stop wasting their money and our time.

^ This. Those that complain there are not enough kiosks are ignorant. Prime locations don't get bid on all the time Riften, Rawl, Elden all have had unbid on kiosks in the last month and all have been snapped up by garbage stores with 1 page of junk in them. Is this their fault? Not really, it's not their job to be respectful of others after all.

Layenem · December 2014

It seems to me that you're really after more kiosks for your guild to have bidding power (financially) to compete with other guilds. All the OP's method would achieve is to flood our market with another item that has no value. People would be bidding under 5k per kiosk because there would be no need to pay more.

Smart guilds would buy kiosks in odd locations that people don't typically travel to and then use zone chats to make their goods and prices aware. What's the point? You think ZOS is going to take the only other strong gold sink they have out of the game? Outside of bank slots there's nothing that's a true gold sink. Armor, smartly, is repaired at a cost that you generally make back while you're killing the content. If you're not wiping in normal DSA then you're making gold out of it (miniscule as it is), you're not losing. Why? Because people complained that they were losing money to run the content... Instead of, you know, going out and actually making some gold real quick... like it's hard to do.

Bad idea. Keep it the way it is.

Reverb · December 2014

I really like the cross faction trading kiosks. My brain isn't working sufficiently to articulate a better reason than that for leaving it the way it is now.

Tandor · December 2014

It's a bad idea. It makes no sense with multi-faction guilds, and it makes a trading system that already fails because it is so restrictive even more of a failure by imposing additional restrictions.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Those that complain there are not enough kiosks are ignorant. Prime locations don't get bid on all the time Riften, Rawl, Elden all have had unbid on kiosks in the last month and all have been snapped up by garbage stores with 1 page of junk in them. Is this their fault? Not really, it's not their job to be respectful of others after all.

What server are you on? It may be that way on EU, but it's not on the NA server because all of those kiosks have multiple guilds in bid wars on them all the time. You may see no bids on the EU server where I maintain a guild store and kiosk for reasonable pricing in a small guild, but it's not happening on as regular a basis as you claim on the NA server! Where's YOUR Data that shows these un-bid on kiosks in prime locations? I call BS on this claim.

ashleybhudsonb14_ESO wrote: »

Where is the data to back up your claim that "most players" have characters in each faction? I do not, and have no desire to. The vast majority of the people that I play with are also loyal to a single faction.

It's based on the amount of players I have run into in the guilds that I have been in since launch who I see logging in to different factions on a consistent basis so no particular data, just observation.

And I have to ask you this, why, if you're only playing one faction because you are "Loyal", are you providing weapons and armor to your rival factions? Isn't this aiding and giving comfort to the enemy? As has already been pointed out, this mess of Multifaction guilds is another mess entirely! It kills faction loyalty! My suggestion would reinforce said loyalty if nothing else.

All I'm hearing so far is "It's a Bad Idea", but I haven't heard one good reason why it's a bad idea other than that's just the way you guys "Feel" about it as if feelings were a good reason. And calling people who want more Kiosks "Ignorant", well, I'm not going to touch that other than to say it falls short of reason.

It is obvious to me however than nobody on the forums supports the idea so I'm dropping it. I asked and it has been answered resoundingly if not reasonably.

ItsGlaive · December 2014

How about it elliminates up to 2/3 of your possible customer base? This is not the fix you're looking for.

MornaBaine · December 2014

I wouldn't mind faction locking IF they ALSO come out with a multi-faction zone where the kiosks are available to all 3 factions. However, I ONLY have characters in DC and unless ZOS breaks down and gives us more character slots it's likely to stay that way. That may seem strange to you Steve but I assure you that it's true for a lot of people. And I already resent the fact that I have to take up TWO of my precious guild slots with trade guilds. That has KEPT me from joining and even creating other guilds I had a far higher interest in. No way am I joining 3. It's also already too difficult for me to find all the pieces to sets I am attempting to collect and I fear your proposed system would just make that problem worse.

I hate the trade system we have. It needs a serious overhaul. But I do not see your proposal really doing much to change the things I already hate about it.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

This would effectively triple the amount of kiosks that could be bid upon and limit the sales from each kiosk to the faction that owns it, even in VR Zones, if your faction is AD, let's say, even if you're in a DC Vet zone, your items would only be available to the AD Factions. Anyone? It cuts down the whole Mega Server Auction House nonsense and opens up more bids on existing kiosk locations.

What if you haven't chosen a faction and play all three equally.

Like I do.