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Skyshards and Lorebooks for consoles
spoqster
✭✭✭✭✭
Hi devs, just a quick idea for the console version. @replacing addons with proper UI or game design elements.
You need to give players a way to collect these elements which are important for character development without cluttering the UI (as the addons are doing). These maps would not clutter the game map and it will give players a reason to revisit the zones when they still are roughly at zone level.
- After completing a zone the player will get a reward in the form of a map of all the skyshards in the zone. This eliminates the need for the Skyshards addon.
- After completing the Mages Guild quest line, the player gets a map listing all the lore books he missed. This eliminates the need for the Lorebooks addon.
You need to give players a way to collect these elements which are important for character development without cluttering the UI (as the addons are doing). These maps would not clutter the game map and it will give players a reason to revisit the zones when they still are roughly at zone level.
5
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MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I never even though of that for consoles. It is definitely a good idea. I currently use the destinations add-on like this.. I don't turn it on until after I feel I have completed the zone and am ready to move on. Let's you explore and enjoy your time, but also ensures you don't miss anything
Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord1 -
Rezzy64✭✭✭I can understand the concern for "wanting" these Skyshard and Lorebook Addons to be mandatory for the console versions... but as PC players we need to openly admit that those two particular features are not necessities for playing the game. There are a whole bunch of Addons that I would agree the need to be implemented into the game to make the gaming experience within the game efficient and easier to manipulate, such as an improved HUD and the Quest Tracker, but the Skyshard map and Lorebook map are... well despite that I use them I will admit that they feel like cheats. The game would survive just fine without them and if anything the lack of the maps make exploration a requirement rather than an option.
Which encourages more exploration and an excuse to return to old maps?
1. Add in skyshard/lorebook maps, and force players to go to one specific location find one particular item and then never return?
or...
2. Leave out the skyshard/lorebook maps, and force players to explore an entire region for an hour or two to find one particular item but in the process of the aimless wandering the player has stumbled upon two random quests they missed and also found three hidden treasure maps due to location recognition from the continuous wandering.
To give another example that's true and personal; While I was traveling through the DC content at the normal pace from levels 1-50, I had already gotten my hands on the Lorebook/Skyshard add on and I had managed to pick up every lorebook and skyshard while walking through the zones at my own pace and following the locations to the shards and books. However... When I had gotten to Vet Rank 1, I had realized, upon checking my achievements, that I had not unlocked all the "Exploration" achievements for the DC area. I ended up going backwards just to discover every location, with some of them being extremely weird and sort of hard to find. (I recall a smugglers port hidden off to the far North West of Bangkorai that took me hours to find even though I had gotten everything else in the region.) Point being that having all the book and shard locations revealed still often leaves out many places that should be explored.
I just personally think that the Skyshard/Lorebook addons are really not necessary at all and just make the game easier, and IMO they actually discourage exploration, because the map addons show you EXACTLY where to go instead of forcing the player to wander around which is kind of one of the main points of this game anyways.2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is no "need" for these addons. Lorebooks are already listed in your journal and the achievement tab has clues about skyshards locations. If that's not enough, you can look up zone maps on the internet.
That said, I like your suggestions. I prefer finding everything on my own, so they're of no use to me, but they seem to nicely fit into the game and would be easy to ignore if you so choose.0 -
s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭But then how will game help/walkthrough magazines make money selling guides?
(This is a serious comment).1 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »But then how will game help/walkthrough magazines make money selling guides?
(This is a serious comment).
Heh, I enjoyed you felt the need to note you are serious. (It's true though, most would have figured you were joking)
This is certainly a valid point. With the PC I don't buy any of those due to the add-ons, although every time I visit EB games I see some walkthroughs for console games and people do buy them. I'm sure PC players do buy walk throughs as well, but I would bet far more console players do.
Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭I think ZOS primary obligation should be to create the best possible game, not worry about guide sales.
I don't like the addons that much because they clutter the map and limit the sense of exploration. But skyshards and lore books are related to skills and thus to character development. Thus they are important. Users will not enjoy leaving skill points behind. Giving players a chance to first explore by themselves, and then reward them with a tool that helps them find everything they missed, is to me an ideal solution. It fits the spirit of the game well and minimizes frustration.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hi devs, just a quick idea for the console version. @replacing addons with proper UI or game design elements.- After completing a zone the player will get a reward in the form of a map of all the skyshards in the zone. This eliminates the need for the Skyshards addon.
- After completing the Mages Guild quest line, the player gets a map listing all the lore books he missed. This eliminates the need for the Lorebooks addon.
You need to give players a way to collect these elements which are important for character development without cluttering the UI (as the addons are doing). These maps would not clutter the game map and it will give players a reason to revisit the zones when they still are roughly at zone level.
Nice Idea, I just use Dulfy myself, which gives the approximate location of each skyshard and lore book on the region map.
Please note I try finding them from the description in the skyshards achievement list, then I look at dulfy, it means I still have to look around, makes it less automated.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not to point out the obvious but you can google the info on your phone or PC
and have it displayed while playing on your console like we always do. lol
Still a good idea though!Edited by TequilaFire on December 30, 2014 11:58AM0 -
WhiskyBob✭✭✭✭✭http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/database/skyshard-locations-map/
http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/lorebooks-locations-map/Edited by WhiskyBob on December 30, 2014 12:03PM0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭I know all those sites. That isn't the point here though.
The intention behind my idea is to allow players to play the game the way that it was originally intended and still give completionists a satisfying tool to play with.
In the simplest form these maps could look like the survey maps. But I could also imagine an interactive design, where the skyshard icons are revealed on the map after completing the main quest line of a zone.
Another case to consider here, is that of levelling an alt. If you pull up a second character you may not want to play through the storyline again, but instead you want to be competitive for PvE or PvP quickly. And for that you need the skill points. So they could show the sky shards if you have completed the zone with a previous character - much like they allow you to skip the tutorial on your second.
And for that matter they should also highlight the quests which reward skill points.Edited by spoqster on January 2, 2015 10:50PM0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WAAAAHHH! I missed a skyshard and don't have any add-ons and don't want to be bothered to google one of the multiple guides showing every skyshard's location! WAAAHHH!0 -
Syldayan✭✭✭google it and you found all the skyshard you dont see the first time.
I play like this , i finish the quest in an area and after that i schearch on google for all the skyshard i dont have found. it's very efficient.0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭google it and you found all the skyshard you dont see the first time.
I play like this , i finish the quest in an area and after that i schearch on google for all the skyshard i dont have found. it's very efficient.
No, it's not efficient, because the guide can't tell which you have already found and which not.0 -
Syldayan✭✭✭google it and you found all the skyshard you dont see the first time.
I play like this , i finish the quest in an area and after that i schearch on google for all the skyshard i dont have found. it's very efficient.
No, it's not efficient, because the guide can't tell which you have already found and which not.
... you just need to go in you'r succes log and see what shard you dont have ...0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭google it and you found all the skyshard you dont see the first time.
I play like this , i finish the quest in an area and after that i schearch on google for all the skyshard i dont have found. it's very efficient.
No, it's not efficient, because the guide can't tell which you have already found and which not.
No, but the journal does tell you this.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭Guys let us please stop this discussion. I am not arguing that it is currently impossible to find the skyshards, I am simply offering a solution that is more convenient, yet dors not break immersion and exploration.Edited by spoqster on January 2, 2015 11:07PM1
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dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me get this straight....Zenimax goes through the trouble of hiding skyshards and lorebooks throughout Tamriel, and you want them to provide a way for you to immediately find them? Sheer laziness.0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me get this straight....Zenimax goes through the trouble of hiding skyshards and lorebooks throughout Tamriel, and you want them to provide a way for you to immediately find them? Sheer laziness.
This is not what the OP suggested. He suggested an option be unlocked once a zone is completed, for consoles. He is ahead of the curve since we don't even know when consoles are available. Of course there are already multiple add-ons now. SKYSHARDS is one of the most popular add-ons available. Guess there are a LOT of lazy players.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)1 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Let me get this straight....Zenimax goes through the trouble of hiding skyshards and lorebooks throughout Tamriel, and you want them to provide a way for you to immediately find them? Sheer laziness.
This is not what the OP suggested. He suggested an option be unlocked once a zone is completed, for consoles. He is ahead of the curve since we don't even know when consoles are available. Of course there are already multiple add-ons now. SKYSHARDS is one of the most popular add-ons available. Guess there are a LOT of lazy players.
Yes, there are.....0 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭I like this idea, and I like it a lot.
Call me a lazy gamer all you want, but hunting this stuff down when I've done all the quests and found all the striking locales/delves is a chore. You know how annoying it was to look for the ONE lore book I missed in all of Coldharbour? A nightmare, and the first addon I ever installed. (I mean, come on. The whole freaking place is purple, how the heck am I supposed to pinpoint another faint, purple glow beside an inconspicuous rock?)
If they can stick an eyeball icon on the map to help with Explorer achievements, I'm sure they can also put a skyshard or lore book icon on there as well."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I understand people googling skyshards and lore books. I've done it myself, mostly for lore books (I find 99% of skyshards during normal questing anyway, except in Cyrodiil). Also, while I don't use them myself, I understand some people just want to clear an area and be done with it, and therefore use the skyshards/lorebooks add-ons. But to use up dev resources to put in an easy mode in game? Sorry, I'd rather they use those resources to fix all the ongoing problems.Edited by daemonios on January 3, 2015 9:28AM1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Another case to consider here, is that of levelling an alt. If you pull up a second character you may not want to play through the storyline again, but instead you want to be competitive for PvE or PvP quickly. And for that you need the skill points. So they could show the sky shards if you have completed the zone with a previous character - much like they allow you to skip the tutorial on your second.
I keep a journal with the locations (co-ordinates and descriptions) of items like these. In it are the crafting survey writ locations, lorebooks and skyshards. With it I don't have to worry about google or add-ons and my own notes (such as "On the crate by the cart") are usually far more descriptive than anything I have found on other sites, even those such as Dulfy's.
Apart from the fact that you actually have to take all of ten seconds to write down the required info it really is a good way to transfer that information from one character to another... of course it also appeals to the old-school gamer in me who had to make maps by hand, rather than pulling them from the internet or from guides (because neither existed at the time).0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know all those sites. That isn't the point here though.
The intention behind my idea is to allow players to play the game the way that it was originally intended and still give completionists a satisfying tool to play with.
In the simplest form these maps could look like the survey maps. But I could also imagine an interactive design, where the skyshard icons are revealed on the map after completing the main quest line of a zone.
I get what you mean, but if they add it for consoles, then they will have to add it for the PC (not that I'm against it BTW) which will lead to some addons becoming useless. And that will lead to other addon Devs leaving (because they will see a threaat they can't counter and pre-empt).Another case to consider here, is that of levelling an alt. If you pull up a second character you may not want to play through the storyline again, but instead you want to be competitive for PvE or PvP quickly. And for that you need the skill points. So they could show the sky shards if you have completed the zone with a previous character - much like they allow you to skip the tutorial on your second.
Not really relevant, if you are skipping the story, then the Devs have no obligation to help you do so.
People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's much more fun to find them without add-ons anyway.
I fully agree, it's nice to read the clues in the journal (Achievements>Skyshards>area) and try to figure them out, some of them are weird clues mind.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭
I strongly disagree. An MMO is as much a sports game as it is a single player role playing game.AlexDougherty wrote: »Another case to consider here, is that of levelling an alt. If you pull up a second character you may not want to play through the storyline again, but instead you want to be competitive for PvE or PvP quickly. And for that you need the skill points. So they could show the sky shards if you have completed the zone with a previous character - much like they allow you to skip the tutorial on your second.
Not really relevant, if you are skipping the story, then the Devs have no obligation to help you do so.
Sports games are most fun if players can become competitive quickly, and then slowly progress to stardom. Easy to learn, hard to master.
Playing through the quests should be an optional part of the game that you choose to play because you enjoy it, not because you are forced to do it.
The introduction of the champion system and the removal of veteran ranks will hopefully bring us closer to that ideal - at least post lvl 50.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Playing through the quests should be an optional part of the game that you choose to play because you enjoy it, not because you are forced to do it.
Yes, Ok, but the fact is that getting those skyshards is supposed to be a bit of a challenge, an easter egg hunt (which is one of the reasons I don't use the app), which is why they have no obligation to help you.
Yes, doing the quests at least puts you in the right area, but you have to find them yourself.
Now if you are skipping the story, fine, I actually agree that it needs to be optional for PVPers (as much as it can be optional), but you have chosen that, now the consequence is you have to deliberately find the skyshards instead of stumbling across them.
But I am not saying any part should be obligatoryPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are valid points to both arguments for and against. However, I agree that the impact of incorporating a PC add-on feature into the console as standard could be a harsh blow to ALL add-ons for the PC. In fairness to the entire gaming community, both PC and console, no feature should be added to the console that is currently a PC add-on. We have been begging for UI changes a la popular add-ons, with very little give from ZOS. I can imagine the uproar that would happen if those features started showing up built into console version. So add-ons should remain the double-edged sword that they are for PCs, and console players should get whatever advantage that platform offers (don't have one), and rely on google for game assistance.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)0 -
Jennifur_Vultee✭✭✭✭✭It's much more fun to find them without add-ons anyway.
You expect people to actually look for them? You must be some kind of monster! Of course Zenimax should just give the player all skyshards and lore books for entering a region...before they can do anything just plop those shards and books in the players lap like pressing the "I win" button. Its terribly inconvenient to play the game and hunt for things. It's just crazy to make people pay a subscription and have to actually work for and achieve something themselves.
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." – Albert Einstein
Treat a customer fairly and they will remember you. Treat a customer poorly and they never forget.
Imperial City: Zerg, gank or die.0
