The dawn of F2P?

KBKB · December 2014

First tick, was the loyalty system in place (crappy cosmetic pets to entice you into staying)

Second tick, the reviews this game has received around the internet

Third tick, Your growing inactive friend/guild lists.

Now the 6 Month sub option is goneeee with only 3 month/ 1 month remaining

Could it be @ZOS intendeds to be F2P by June next year?

AshySamurai · December 2014

KBKB wrote: »

First tick, was the loyalty system in place (crappy cosmetic pets to entice you into staying)

Second tick, the reviews this game has received around the internet

Third tick, Your growing inactive friend/guild lists.

Now the 6 Month sub option is goneeee with only 3 month/ 1 month remaining

Could it be @ZOS intendeds to be F2P by June next year?

Sure. And then ESO will die. We are doomed.

Cillion3117 · December 2014

I think ESO will be just fine.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

1. A lot of sub based games do that
2. Recent reviews are more favorable than the release ones
3. You mean all the people that keep coming back?
4. Dunno never used it. Might make sense to get rid of it
5. 60 day time card is on sale.

Yep it's screwed

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2014

I sure hope not if tho game goes f2p I'm out. Honestly ZOS should shut down the dang servers before going f2p

Look this game is supposed to be a long term investment. Its not uncommon to lose money the 1st 3 years and then turn around a pull profit the last 7 paying for the game cost itself and making money.

ZOS needs to be patient there is plenty here worth paying for and more coming soon, if this game goes f2p it will just fall into a hole with all the other f2p mmos and will fade into obscurity. Stay sub ZOS, stay the course, you will be rewarded with nice profits at the end.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

Its possible, who knows. If it does go f2p I really hope it doesn't follow the Korean model of p2w. P2W (pay to win) ruins the whole point of doing anything in an mmo, kills the sense of achievement, and also makes pvp utterly pointless. This is really the only thing I care about with regard to f2p games. F2P games all too often ruin the game because they forget the whole reason people play a game, which is fun/entertainment, and for the game itself to be challenging. I personally don't like the idea of throwing money at a game in the 1000's just to be able to be competitive/play the game. This is what a lot of f2p mmo's do. I think this is what you're afraid of. Its not always so bad though, but it is a dark road to go down. I'll keep playing though if it does go f2p, but it'll be with a much more passive attitude (like I've done with every game I've played that went f2p).

KBKB · December 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

1. A lot of sub based games do that
2. Recent reviews are more favorable than the release ones
3. You mean all the people that keep coming back?
4. Dunno never used it. Might make sense to get rid of it
5. 60 day time card is on sale.

Yep it's screwed

1. Maybe..
2. You need to hit the ground running with MMOs the gaming market isn't forgiving
3. The number of people who have came back still pales to the numbers that have left and are leaving. I think 1.6 is make or break for this game.
4. Remove a long term sub option? how does that make sense when looking for the future.

Further more ZOS have never released sub numbers, estimates had sub numbers around 700k. Still if you were doing well you would want to share it with the world to entice more people to join not hide it which seems plausible if you are on the decline.

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2014

I don't think many have left, thornblade is pop locked from 7pm on usually.

I have,seen alot more people on recently towns are bustling, I think eso will be fine

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

KBKB wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

1. A lot of sub based games do that
2. Recent reviews are more favorable than the release ones
3. You mean all the people that keep coming back?
4. Dunno never used it. Might make sense to get rid of it
5. 60 day time card is on sale.

Yep it's screwed

1. Maybe..
2. You need to hit the ground running with MMOs the gaming market isn't forgiving
3. The number of people who have came back still pales to the numbers that have left and are leaving. I think 1.6 is make or break for this game.
4. Remove a long term sub option? how does that make sense when looking for the future.

Further more ZOS have never released sub numbers, estimates had sub numbers around 700k. Still if you were doing well you would want to share it with the world to entice more people to join not hide it which seems plausible if you are on the decline.

1. They do
2. People sure forgave FF14 and WoW
3. 60% always leave in the first 3 months. What you are left with is your core after that if there is an increase its good.
4. Depends. They probably pay people to do the accounting and take care of the subs. If the people doing it are charging you for that option but people aren't using the option whats the point of having it.

Nothing good comes from releasing sub numbers as a private company.
They come out and say they have 1 million fans say wow that's doing good, haters say wow that's terrible. Come out and say you have 5 million the players say wow that's amazing, The haters say your a lying piece of garbage. Even if it is around 772k like the article back in June or whatever it was, that is still profitable. FF11 lasted what like 12 years with 500k. Eve has lasted longer with fewer and gains players slowly. Don't need 10 million to be successful. Plus still have console release to go. No reason to go F2P now.

bosmern_ESO · December 2014

There are loyalty rewards in tons of MMO's, that doesn't mean the game if failing.

CreepySpydre · December 2014

Sadly I believe it will go to f2p. Esp. when they implement the pvp factor into the Justice System. Putting pvp on the pve play field, is incredibly unwise, and will only cause strife when the pve player is forced flagged, destroyed, raise to shrine, then destroyed again before the reload is done. Leaving that player only option to alt-f4, then leave the game, and since pve players are of greater number, they will need to find alternatives for cash.

Divad Zarn · December 2014

CreepySpydre wrote: »

Sadly I believe it will go to f2p. Esp. when they implement the pvp factor into the Justice System. Putting pvp on the pve play field, is incredibly unwise, and will only cause strife when the pve player is forced flagged, destroyed, raise to shrine, then destroyed again before the reload is done. Leaving that player only option to alt-f4, then leave the game, and since pve players are of greater number, they will need to find alternatives for cash.

Tell that to WoW how its "unwise" to put PvP on the PvE field. PvP is one of the most important thing which increasing MMO quality + player numbers and everyone can be sure, that when ZOS add more PvP (not only that trash boring Cyrodill), like arenas/world pvp etc. sub numbers will increase like x10, even more by time.

Dazin93 · December 2014

Considering that The ZoS staff obviously has no loyalty to long time customers, I think the plan has been to go f2p since the early planning stages of the champion system. While it isn't mentioned here much, the console release is a high priority for ZoS, and has been more of a focus than any new content or fixes. Everything to date has been in preparation for console play, don't let them fool you into thinking anything else. The champion system will be in place long enough to work out the major bugs then it will be time for console release. This has been their plan all along.

I see a likely timeline being:

1.6 release
ZoS begins citing the need to "restructure" and that there has been a "change in vision".
1.7 release
ESO goes f2p concurrently with console release
1.8-2.0
Introduction of advanced cash shops/P2W pvp armor sets/weapons ect.

I could be completely wrong, but that is my prediction.

KBKB · December 2014

Divad Zarn wrote: »

CreepySpydre wrote: »

Sadly I believe it will go to f2p. Esp. when they implement the pvp factor into the Justice System. Putting pvp on the pve play field, is incredibly unwise, and will only cause strife when the pve player is forced flagged, destroyed, raise to shrine, then destroyed again before the reload is done. Leaving that player only option to alt-f4, then leave the game, and since pve players are of greater number, they will need to find alternatives for cash.

Tell that to WoW how its "unwise" to put PvP on the PvE field. PvP is one of the most important thing which increasing MMO quality + player numbers and everyone can be sure, that when ZOS add more PvP (not only that trash boring Cyrodill), like arenas/world pvp etc. sub numbers will increase like x10, even more by time.

Agreed, the PvP community has very little to do after 8 months capping/recapping is getting old would be a smooth move to introduce closed world PvP ASAP.

Teargrants · December 2014

[CommonSense]Has no one taken a second to think and see the simplest explanation? As everyone should remember, the longest duration sub options have lower price per month than the 1 month sub. Removing the 6 month option forces new players and ppl who didn't have 6 month selected to all go with 3 month as the cheapest, thus paying $1 more per month.[/CommonSense]

Wolfshead · December 2014

KBKB wrote: »

First tick, was the loyalty system in place (crappy cosmetic pets to entice you into staying)

Second tick, the reviews this game has received around the internet

Third tick, Your growing inactive friend/guild lists.

Now the 6 Month sub option is goneeee with only 3 month/ 1 month remaining

Could it be @ZOS intendeds to be F2P by June next year?

Woooow i just love doomsayer so just for those thing the game so go F2P omg have you every consider as career financial analyze for the are just guess and the can make country economy crash hard so why not try out that.

I think true why the remove 6 month sub option is this :

Bethesda's latest MMORPG, The Elder Scrolls Online, will still require a Gold subscription on top of the developer's own monthly fees. For the time being, at least; Microsoft has "about six months" to consider changing its policies, as the game was recently delayed for consoles. The developer was in talks with Microsoft back in August to cut the extra fees for The Elder Scrolls Online, which won't be enforced by Sony via PlayStation Plus for PS4.

Here is link

Dazin93 · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

[CommonSense]Has no one taken a second to think and see the simplest explanation? As everyone should remember, the longest duration sub options have lower price per month than the 1 month sub. Removing the 6 month option forces new players and ppl who didn't have 6 month selected to all go with 3 month as the cheapest, thus paying $1 more per month.[/CommonSense]

Actually quite a few people took a half a second to think and see "the simplest explanation" as you put it of the change in sub options. However, the simplest explanation isn't always the correct one, and this thread is discussing multiple factors that could indicate a future change to f2p, not just one factor.

MissBizz · December 2014

CreepySpydre wrote: »

Sadly I believe it will go to f2p. Esp. when they implement the pvp factor into the Justice System. Putting pvp on the pve play field, is incredibly unwise, and will only cause strife when the pve player is forced flagged, destroyed, raise to shrine, then destroyed again before the reload is done. Leaving that player only option to alt-f4, then leave the game, and since pve players are of greater number, they will need to find alternatives for cash.

There's an off switch for the justice system

ItsGlaive · December 2014

Loyalty rewards are very common for sub games - FFXIV uses them for example. I don't think F2P is on the horizon, if it ever does make the switch, I'm outta here.

RSram · December 2014

As long as ESO continues to make a profit each month it will continue to be P2P. End of discussion.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · December 2014

KBKB wrote: »

First tick, was the loyalty system in place (crappy cosmetic pets to entice you into staying)

Second tick, the reviews this game has received around the internet

Third tick, Your growing inactive friend/guild lists.

Now the 6 Month sub option is goneeee with only 3 month/ 1 month remaining

Could it be @ZOS intendeds to be F2P by June next year?

Good grief not another f2p thread. f2p is a terrible model and intelligent people have figured out the scam. P2P is the only honest model.

Moonshadow66 · December 2014

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

First tick, was the loyalty system in place (crappy cosmetic pets to entice you into staying)

Second tick, the reviews this game has received around the internet

Third tick, Your growing inactive friend/guild lists.

Now the 6 Month sub option is goneeee with only 3 month/ 1 month remaining

Could it be @ZOS intendeds to be F2P by June next year?

Good grief not another f2p thread. f2p is a terrible model and intelligent people have figured out the scam. P2P is the only honest model.

And that's why I'm sure ESO will never go f2p.

Bloodfang · December 2014

Actually ESO has seen some big increase in subs in December.

Elder Scrolls Online has 51% more subs in December atm than in November.

Also it's more played than Oktober and September as well.

I don't think ESO is going F2P, removal of 6 month sub option was a genious economic move, they were too much generous anyway. Either take it off or make it more expensive, you now know how they chose.

Also my speculation on subs is based on ESO Steam Charts. I love to think Steam is about 1/1000 of total population of ESO, so my estimation is we are either getting close to 800k, or ESO already surpassed 1mil subs.

With the Champion System and Justice System on the horizon, ESO will double the revenue and subs in no time. Also 2015 will be a very strong year for ESO, we might finish it in the West even better than WoW. WoW has at the moment about 3mil subs in the West, possibly less already. I'd say they WoW will be between 1-1.5mil subs in the West at the end of 2015.

http://steamcharts.com/app/306130

PS: About consoles and how ESO is going to be F2P there. ESO on Consoles won't be F2P, they will have to pay only 1 sub, and that is ESO SUB. They won't have to pay for either PSN or XBOX Live.

KBKB · December 2014

wrong thread

Sindala · December 2014

Well we will soon get a new boost of players when SWtoR shuts down next year.
How do I know this?
Well Disney owns Lucasarts and they have announced they are closing the games division in the new year and since they run SWtoR with Bioware then Bioware either has to buy the game out or agree to close it.
Personally seeing the state of the game now I think Bioware will close it in favour of the new project they are working on.

So there you go, were not in half as bad shape now are we

KBKB · December 2014

Sindala wrote: »

Well we will soon get a new boost of players when SWtoR shuts down next year.
How do I know this?
Well Disney owns Lucasarts and they have announced they are closing the games division in the new year and since they run SWtoR with Bioware then Bioware either has to buy the game out or agree to close it.
Personally seeing the state of the game now I think Bioware will close it in favour of the new project they are working on.

So there you go, were not in half as bad shape now are we

You sure they just released an expansion..

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · December 2014

Despair9 wrote: »

Actually ESO has seen some big increase in subs in December.

An increase, perhaps, but from a very low number. It's still pretty sparsely populated, and over the holidays I have not seen a great increase in the number of people in any zones, neither in lvl 1-50 or in VR zones. I can still quest for hours during prime time in Coldharbour and in the VR zones without meeting more than one or two other players. Except for at the banks and the usual farming spots, there are obviously much too few people around for the game to work the way it is supposed to, and I end up soloing dolmens, public dungeons and world bosses.

Also my speculation on subs is based on ESO Steam Charts. I love to think Steam is about 1/100 of total population of ESO, so my estimation is we are either getting close to 800k, or ESO already surpassed 1mil subs.

We can dream, but in my opinion, it's extremely wishful thinking to say that Steam accounts for as little as 1% of the current population. At the moment, I think that ESO has an active population that doesn't even reach six figures. It's not dead, but it's far from healthy.

ItsGlaive · December 2014

Some real-world advertising wouldn't go amiss. Living in London I'm surprised I've never so much as seen a poster for this game.

Bloodfang · December 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

Actually ESO has seen some big increase in subs in December.

An increase, perhaps, but from a very low number. It's still pretty sparsely populated, and over the holidays I have not seen a great increase in the number of people in any zones, neither in lvl 1-50 or in VR zones. I can still quest for hours during prime time in Coldharbour and in the VR zones without meeting more than one or two other players. Except for at the banks and the usual farming spots, there are obviously much too few people around for the game to work the way it is supposed to, and I end up soloing dolmens, public dungeons and world bosses.

Also my speculation on subs is based on ESO Steam Charts. I love to think Steam is about 1/100 of total population of ESO, so my estimation is we are either getting close to 800k, or ESO already surpassed 1mil subs.

We can dream, but in my opinion, it's extremely wishful thinking to say that Steam accounts for as little as 1% of the current population. At the moment, I think that ESO has an active population that doesn't even reach six figures. It's not dead, but it's far from healthy.

I don't know anyone who plays from Steam, and I know plenty of people. Also ESO on Steam arrived very late.

ESO would have annouced F2P or just shut down if they were below 500k, so this argument is totally invalid. Saying it's below 100k though, this game would shut down in a day not a month.

Sleep · December 2014

No f2p, just no.

Joejudas · December 2014

So after they finish alienating all of their subs that have been around since launch by not giving us CP points based on the exp we earned doing unrepeatable questing and breaking end game PvE by nerfing armor sets, ult gain and skills into oblivion for the sake of casual PvP players.....they will lose a ton of subs....myself included and go f2p....but will have pissed people off enough that we won't want to even play a free version.