1.5 How to adjust difficulty of solo dungeons?

Dreizopf · November 2014

Am I right? Group dungeons and solo dungeons are scaling now. Group dungeons are using the level of the group leader, so a party can go easy with a low leader and can go more challenging with a higher leader. But in solo dungeons there is no group leader. So, how can I scale up or down?
Ah, yes @ZOS: And why I am forced to do a solo dungeon always on my current level? Who cares, how I mastered it solo? Who has been offended by me before 1.5, when I did a level 30 solo dungeon with char level 33?

Aenlir · November 2014

I would recommend giving it a try, I did a mages guild quest yesterday on my v14, so everything was scaled up to v12. It was extremely easy, pretty much one shot things.

Dreizopf · November 2014

Thx for answer, craigvigneaultub.
But I don't understand your message. I should take an outleveled V14 and try a V12 dungeon?
My main is 36. Before 1.5 my current story quest was level 35, my waiting npc guild quests were 33. And now? They level with me, they are all 36 now. I am not able and allowed to make a SOLO dungeon 2 levels later (like you told me). I am forced to do them on same level. Why? It's not a question of easy or not easy, it's a question about the reason for this rule. Groups are able to scale their dungeons by setting the group leader level they wish to have. I can't do that in SOLO dungeons. :-(

glak · November 2014

The solo dungeons and solo instanced quests don't scale to vr14 with monsters wearing legendary armor, yet.

Coatmagic · November 2014

Mages Guild quest line has done this: My level 27 character has made it to the final quest. The quest shows as a level 27 quest in my quest log. All the mobs in Eyevea are level 43+! =8)) Well done ZOS! LOL

Aenlir · November 2014

Dreizopf wrote: »

Thx for answer, craigvigneaultub.
But I don't understand your message. I should take an outleveled V14 and try a V12 dungeon?
My main is 36. Before 1.5 my current story quest was level 35, my waiting npc guild quests were 33. And now? They level with me, they are all 36 now. I am not able and allowed to make a SOLO dungeon 2 levels later (like you told me). I am forced to do them on same level. Why? It's not a question of easy or not easy, it's a question about the reason for this rule. Groups are able to scale their dungeons by setting the group leader level they wish to have. I can't do that in SOLO dungeons. :-(

Ok, I get what you're saying. But the way I see it is that if it is easy like it was when I tried it (the difference between v12 and v14 is really no difference at all), then it's best to just deal with the change and adapt to the difficulty. The reason I say this is, at least from my experience is that it is not difficult at all. I know with absolutely 0 strategy I could spam one skill and still do it. I understand it's annoying you can't over level it, but I would encourage you to give it a chance. Honestly, if you have trouble with it, feel free to message me in game @anguem and I would be glad to give you some tips to help you beat it. Just think of it as a fun challenge =D

Epona222 · November 2014

reapersloveb16_ESO wrote: »

Mages Guild quest line has done this: My level 27 character has made it to the final quest. The quest shows as a level 27 quest in my quest log. All the mobs in Eyevea are level 43+! =8)) Well done ZOS! LOL

Yeah they only scale up, not down. BUT the journal does not now tell you what the level will be if you are below the level of the mobs. It really ought to say in the journal that it is a lvl 43 quest, then start moving that number up if you are higher level and it is going to scale up. When the journal says that it is lvl 27 it is less than helpful in deciding when to tackle these quests. I wish Zenimax would change the level shown in the journal to indicate that there is no down-scaling!

manny254 · November 2014

Oh no!!!!! You have to fight things at your level?

Elsonso · November 2014

Obviously, the concept of dungeon scaling is philosophical. If you have dungeon scaling, it presents a world where instances are always a challenge, no matter when you do them or how often you do them. This has some benefits, like the ability to return to a dungeon and do it again and also that you now get XP for killing the monsters in there when otherwise you would not. The latter is a win for Solo players and both benefit the groups who do Undaunted pledges.

If you skip dungeon scaling it presents a static world where instances in existing areas become easy to clear. In this world you can go back and mop the floor with puny mobs, making it easy to go back and teach that boss a lesson. This is also a win for Solo players in that they can solo more content just by outleveling it.

This is all philosophical because there is no right or wrong answer, there is just what we think about it. Zenimax has already decided what they want to do and now all that remains is how they intend to tune it and whether they are going to try to do both static and dynamic scaling in the same game.

So, this thread is about tuning solo scaling. Happily, I have thoughts on this matter.

1. The instance should not scale up within the expected level of the instance. This would probably be level to level+5. This applies to all scaling, not just solo. This preserves the original spirit of the instance.

2. To avoid a big jump at level+6 (one level above max instance range), they should scale starting at level+2 and go up from there. A level 16 entering a level 10 instance would find it scaled to level 12. The instance would scale by 2 for every 1 character level until parity, so at character 17, the instance would be level 14. They would reach parity at level 20. This also applies to all scaling, solo and group.

3. They need to have a better way of scaling down an instance when a solo player is in trouble. They currently use deaths, which is one way of doing it, but requires that the player reach a certain level of intense game-hating frustration. One thing that is right is that they should not scale back until the player is in trouble. They should not profile the character/player prior to entering the instance and scale accordingly.

4. I don't think that they should scale everything the same. I think that trash mobs should scale lower than boss mobs. Or, another way to look at it, boss mobs should scale higher than trash mobs. They may be doing this, I have not paid that much attention.

5. I do not know if this is the case already, but group instances should not scale to solo players, or groups of one. They should only scale when two or more players enter the instance. If a VR14 wants to solo normal Banished Cells it should not scale. When in an instance, players should not be able to form groups.

EDIT: Edit to clarify

Woolenthreads · November 2014

I don't have any issue with the scaling playing a L29 Templar or L43 Sorcerer. I find it's not generally about whether your at level or not, it's more about your playing skills. They've stated that if you get taken out repeatedly then the game will scale the mobs to match (eventually).

I think that there are only a few times when there is a clear disparity between the game requirements and the PC and it usually happens because they've given a mini-boss a capability not standard to their class (For instance, the Gil-var-delle Harvesters seeming immunity to silver bolts).

#edit: I don't mean it's necessarily bad, merely that it's disappointing.

Dreizopf · November 2014

Thanks to you all for your interesting comments. From lordrichter I have learned to look at this scaling problem as a point of design by zenimax, and I thank you for that idea! I think you are right, scaling may be a win for solo players and not doing so may be a win too. Very good.
I will append my first thought here again: I mentioned, that groups are able and allowed to scale the dungeon by choosing the level of the group leader, and that a solo player is not allowed to do the same. To give this choice to a solo player too would be a win win in the above sense.
Second I have a new thing:
I finished the parts of npc guild quests in my region. Then I got the invitation for the next parts in the next region(or zone?), with down scaled quest level. I did them too. Then I got the next invitation again for the next region/zone. What is that? Is a i.e. level 17 newbie now able to rush through the whole npc guild story?

Roon72 · December 2014

I wish they'd not scale the solo campaign at all. I'm stuck on Halls of Torment and I am never going to complete it at all unless I start all over again which is not what I want to do. I wish there was a way you could manually set the difficulty of the solo dungeons because I do not like hard games at all. And at Vet 1 it's too hard for me. I just don't have enough time (Quite literally since I'm not a young player at all. I'll be dead in 20 years or so and still the Halls of Torment will not be beaten.), patience, nor interest in failing all the time.

naturn · December 2014

Soloing dungeons in Cyrodiil is especially difficult. When you die and don't have any crystals, you rez at the main starting gate (instead of the start of the dungeon). This means you have to run all the way across the map back to the instance/cave you died in. This could take 20 minutes or more depending on the distance and how many times enemy factions kill you. Then when you get back to the dungeon, everything has spawned again and you have to go through the whole dungeon again. It could take a very very long time to finish one. I finally just gave up on soloing them.

Elsonso · December 2014

You can scale solo instances down if ZOS scales them up too high.

If the dungeon or solo quest you are on is scaled to your level, it is a bit of frustrating work, but at least for the moment you can scale it DOWN in 5-10 minutes, depending mostly on how far away the wayshrine is.

If you are in a solo instance or dungeon, not a delve or open world area, that is scaled to your level, the very act of dying repeatedly will trigger the safety net and scale the instance down.

It takes a few deaths to notice the change, but once it happens it is pretty obvious.

The key is to have the patience to die several times.

Note, you will suffer armor damage during this. If you use potions or soul gems, you could deplete your supply. Be mindful of this as you try to conquer the instance.

Woolenthreads · December 2014

Dreizopf wrote: »

Second I have a new thing:
I finished the parts of npc guild quests in my region. Then I got the invitation for the next parts in the next region(or zone?), with down scaled quest level. I did them too. Then I got the next invitation again for the next region/zone. What is that? Is a i.e. level 17 newbie now able to rush through the whole npc guild story?

It scales the quild quests up or down to suit your level but I suspect that, for the purposes of levelling, it doesn't matter when you do them, now. I just do them when I walk into the city with the guild hall.

lordrichter wrote: »

Note, you will suffer armor damage during this. If you use potions or soul gems, you could deplete your supply. Be mindful of this as you try to conquer the instance.

Since the intent is to die anyway, while trying to win, you could take off the armour. I simply ended up learning to play my characters better. This happened with Sancre Tor, I won against Mannimarco by learning when to interrupt him and what to have on my bar to take out the adds quickly and still damage him, while restoring my stat bars as required.