Why has something not been done about Exploiters Destroying the fun of PvP?

Reverb · December 2014

Subtomik wrote: »

[snip] isn't the skelly crew from AD lol. And he got to rank 44+ so fast by being on a lot lol.

I have seen some shady stuff in my time in cyrodiil but try and do some fact checks before leveling accusations.

And because DC feed him AP like candy.

Eldarth wrote: »

THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON IT
1.6 IS A MAJOR UPGRADE
GO ON TEST SERVER IN JANUARY AND TEST IT OUT.

They are working on changes yes, that does not address exploiters, which is what the OP was asking. There's no indication that zos cares about that, or even cares to look into the reports. Expecting them to, or wondering why they don't, is a waste of energy anymore.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Asgari · December 2014

Subtomik wrote: »

[snip] isn't the skelly crew from AD lol. And he got to rank 44+ so fast by being on a lot lol.

I have seen some shady stuff in my time in cyrodiil but try and do some fact checks before leveling accusations.

The amount of QQ from everyone about [snip] is always a pleasure reading. He knows how to get AP, I have zero gripe with that. I only wish I had factions who were as *** to play against and be so farmable.

I honestly love AP more than any other pvp accomplishment and seeing it scroll is an addiction.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

Xjcon wrote: »

So having coordinated groups is now an exploit? LoL

Nope but coordinated groups that intentionally try to stress the server is an exploit.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

MADshadowman · December 2014

please don't cry on my lap, those pants are new

RSram · December 2014

One of the fixes that I suggest is to eliminate animation canceling and force the player to wait until the animation complete before the player can execute the next skill or weapon.

It might outrage everyone because this is a popular method of increasing DPS, but it would slow down the battles in PVP .

You could also add collisions between friendlies in the PVP areas outside the starting keeps. This would stop everyone from bunching up and make server side calculations faster to calculate because there would be less congested combat.

Maybe players that have a latency above a certain threshold should not be allowed to play in the PVP area, but again this would outrage many players who can't afford a high speed connection.

Lag is one of the toughest problems to fix in my opinion because each player uses a different network to communicate with the ESO servers; some of the players have low latency while other have high latency, and trying to sync all this together is a nightmare in itself.

Dazin93 · December 2014

I don't blame the players, I blame the game for allowing these mechanics and tactics. When I see a group fighting using aoe/ultimate spam tactics I usually find somewhere else to fight. I can dps them from range all day long without dying, but frankly I find it boring. I find being part of such groups equally boring; pvp is very stale right now imho and ZoS hasn't cared to do anything about it.

Suntzu1414 · December 2014

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

I honestly love AP more than any other pvp accomplishment and seeing it scroll is an addiction.

I wish there was a "12 step program" for AP addiction....

Kill Well
ST

Layenem · December 2014

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

How about Doing something like disciplining the EP crew that purposely exploits broken game mechanics. This is stupid. You have let the state of PVP deteriorate to the point that all they have to do is ball up and lag everyone.

Why not any action EVER taken against them?? Yet you give us new NPC facial animations and lighting effects that SCREWED the game up even more!

Get your priorities straight ZOS. Dont worry about pleasing new members. Worry about not losing the faithful players that have been here since early release.

Get rid of these exploiters. The ONLY tactic that EP has is get farmed or lag server so no one can land any hits on them. Its really quite pathetic. Without this tactic tonight alone my group farmed them for hours. When they got mad about it here comes the lag! One group is mainly responsible and I demand action.

You have banned people for less than this. Why not any action? Need proof?? I got videos screen shots etc... ANY ZOS Employee needs proof message me will be happy to provide. If only you would be happy to fix the DAMN PROBLEM!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

So, rage fest aside, and I get it, I'd like to point out that they didn't do anything while AD was doing this so why would it change? Especially since a LOT of those AD guys came over to EP...

To top that off, have you seen how AA and Hel Ra are treated? Do you think the devs are going to admit they were wrong and punish players for exploiting game mechanics? Nope. Last game to do that was EQ1 and 2. I got banned for a week from EQ1 and I didn't even realize I was exploiting, I just thought that if it could be pulled then pull it...

Games are made for the casuals. This is the ugly truth of it all.

NordJitsu · December 2014

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention the EP who have outright admitted that this specific group has organized the WHOLE EP faction to join them in lag capping keeps(turtling keeps)

Very Pathetic!!

That is ***. Never happened. You are so naive to think that every player in an alliance would go along with something like that. Would you? No? What makes you think we are any different. You are blind with rage.

Really thats funny considering the spy i sent to the EP server reported zone chat was lighting up to get people to join the lag ball. You check your facts. We know they are doing it on purpose. Maybe not EVERY player but more than enough to form the lag ball zerg.

These BS tactics are the ONLY way these losers can win! Sad!

I have never seen anyone talking about this in zone.

NordJitsu · December 2014

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

I honestly dont see much of this from AD. They either have 1 or 2 very good coordinated groups. Sometimes the AD pugs Join them in the back n forth between keeps.

Its every time the EP group rolls through that everything starts getting weird. Skill animations go off but skills do not cast. Skills cast, use mana but never actually hit anything.

And the unbreakable stacking CC they use. (thought CCs werent supposed to stack) It goes on and on.

The AD skeleton crew is the number one culprit of clumping and impulse training. Not sure they (or anyone) is trying to cause lag though because obviously that would affect everyone and be bad for everyone.

G0ku · December 2014

Didn´t even know about that, but just 5 minutes ago I was watching a fight for sejanus from outside and as things got intense the red group (attackers) started spamming unstable wall and healing springs standing on the entrance stairs on the side. Next thing happened I was attacked couldn´t cast anything while being nuked down. Is that the thing you´re talking about?

I never imagined people could be that stupid to do such things but as I read more and more comments one has to realise that there are many people with an a-hole mindset in this game.

RainfeatherUK · December 2014

ZoS doesn't make people exploit or be lazy. They do it because its in their nature.

I have the option to kill someone in my home, doesnt mean I do it just because its a 'possibility and the world should be better designed if they didnt want me to become a murderer.' So I've never understood the merits of that thinking in a game.

The PvP community could do more to make PvP fun for others, instead everyone points fingers at someone else.

Yes, there are things that can be changed in systems. But the problems are ones common to world pvp environments with gear and skill discrepancies. Thats not unique to ESO.

Considering few games have ever got the system 'right.' Maybe posting to help and create solutions, rather than condemning it endlessly would be a better investment of time.

''its not my job to fix their stuff.'' Except that it isnt their stuff. They give you a box, you decide how you want to play in it. - You'd complain if they controlled the box anyway.

Player etiquette, nature and cowardice is the problem in PvP. People will ball up because they believe they lack the skill to go it alone, or are just lazy. Nothing ZoS can implement will change that. They cant make people 'care'.

A community that gets together, that looks down on such attitudes however. Yeah that could go somewhere. If you all work together to develop that for yourselves.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

RSram wrote: »

You could also add collisions between friendlies in the PVP areas outside the starting keeps. This would stop everyone from bunching up and make server side calculations faster to calculate because there would be less congested combat.

You obviously know nothing about collision detection or you would know exactly how wrong you are. Collision detection is a MASSIVE CPU Hog!

RSram · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

You could also add collisions between friendlies in the PVP areas outside the starting keeps. This would stop everyone from bunching up and make server side calculations faster to calculate because there would be less congested combat.

You obviously know nothing about collision detection or you would know exactly how wrong you are. Collision detection is a MASSIVE CPU Hog!

I do know a lot about collision detection I wrote an article about it in Compute! magazine in 1987 called Softsprite, the program was written in machine language. The program is old but the principles are the same. I also write my own 3D gaming code in C++ on the Windows 7 platform. 3D collision code is simple and fast if each character is surrounded by an collision rectangle or cylinder. This is what ZOS most likely uses with the NPC's in the PVE areas.

The problem is the number of calculations required when you have a huge zerg ball spamming skills because the damage has so many variables that must calculated in real time it overloads the ESO server. With collision detection, you only can have at most four player collisions per player. With combat that one player can effect 6 other players in an AOE attack. If the players aren't close enough to each other, the collision detection routine is not even used.

You obviously know nothing about about me or 3D game programming, so your statement about me is ludicrous.

I can refer you to several game and 3D programming books if you don't believe me.

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO · December 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention the EP who have outright admitted that this specific group has organized the WHOLE EP faction to join them in lag capping keeps(turtling keeps)

Very Pathetic!!

That is ***. Never happened. You are so naive to think that every player in an alliance would go along with something like that. Would you? No? What makes you think we are any different. You are blind with rage.

Really thats funny considering the spy i sent to the EP server reported zone chat was lighting up to get people to join the lag ball. You check your facts. We know they are doing it on purpose. Maybe not EVERY player but more than enough to form the lag ball zerg.

These BS tactics are the ONLY way these losers can win! Sad!

I find it amusing that the guy who intentionally sent a spy to an enemy faction - blatantly violating the spirit of the game if not the actual rules - is complaining about other people's "BS tactics"

How is spying a BS tactic? Why is it against the spirit of a game? Especially a war game? And don't even try to say EP and AD dont use spies.

Any leader who does not utilize spies in war, or a war game is just a fool. And has no idea what they are doing.

"Know yourself and know your enemy and in a hundred battles you will never know defeat." Sun Tzu The Art of war

And make no mistake, this game is a simulation of war.

And spare me ANY kind of ethical argument in regards to spying. As I said it is a game that simulates war. Its going to happen whether you want it or not.

But these exploits and outright BS tactics are the result of people purposely taking advantage of the games problems. They ban for the use of other exploits. But not for some.

AD and EP cry to high heaven about Troll camps they get instant response from ZOS. Call for action against any real issues get ignored and trolled by people.
Even though AD and EP were troll camping people hardcore.

I know this being the victim of them myself. Watching while dead from spawning at a camp and being instantly cut down by EP or AD. And while lying dead watching a sole DC that NO EP even thinks of touching, puts another camp up right where the first was and brings more dc into the slaughter. Did I cry on here for something to get done no. We just dealt with it.

Granted I will admit the game is better without FCs IMHO.

God forbid someone post something about a serious game breaking issue.
You just get met with people trolling you.

Joy_Division · December 2014

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention the EP who have outright admitted that this specific group has organized the WHOLE EP faction to join them in lag capping keeps(turtling keeps)

Very Pathetic!!

That is ***. Never happened. You are so naive to think that every player in an alliance would go along with something like that. Would you? No? What makes you think we are any different. You are blind with rage.

Really thats funny considering the spy i sent to the EP server reported zone chat was lighting up to get people to join the lag ball. You check your facts. We know they are doing it on purpose. Maybe not EVERY player but more than enough to form the lag ball zerg.

These BS tactics are the ONLY way these losers can win! Sad!

I find it amusing that the guy who intentionally sent a spy to an enemy faction - blatantly violating the spirit of the game if not the actual rules - is complaining about other people's "BS tactics"

How is spying a BS tactic? Why is it against the spirit of a game? Especially a war game? And don't even try to say EP and AD dont use spies.

Any leader who does not utilize spies in war, or a war game is just a fool. And has no idea what they are doing.

"Know yourself and know your enemy and in a hundred battles you will never know defeat." Sun Tzu The Art of war

And make no mistake, this game is a simulation of war.

Let's us count the number of ways you are wrong:

1. Spying is a BS tactic: "It is by design that characters of differing alliances cannot join the same campaign. This prevents cross-faction information from reaching large groups with the use of "spy" characters.
-ZOS_GaryA

2. ESO is a "war game." No, it is a fantasy MMO roleplaying game.

3. Leaders who don't use spies in this game are not fools. They are playing by the rules. Leaders who do are violating the rules.

4. You are convenient in what is allowed in "war" and what is not. Somehow spies are fair play, while spamming healing springs and impulse is not. If it's a "simulation of war," players are going to use their most effective techniques and weapons available to them. Sun Tzu wrote how to win war, not how to wage it in a manner in which the opponent believed was honorable.

Ackwalan · December 2014

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention the EP who have outright admitted that this specific group has organized the WHOLE EP faction to join them in lag capping keeps(turtling keeps)

Very Pathetic!!

That is ***. Never happened. You are so naive to think that every player in an alliance would go along with something like that. Would you? No? What makes you think we are any different. You are blind with rage.

Really thats funny considering the spy i sent to the EP server reported zone chat was lighting up to get people to join the lag ball. You check your facts. We know they are doing it on purpose. Maybe not EVERY player but more than enough to form the lag ball zerg.

These BS tactics are the ONLY way these losers can win! Sad!

Do you really think we will believe what this spy reported? Post a pic or be called a liar.

Xsorus · December 2014

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

Crystallized isn't the skelly crew from AD lol. And he got to rank 44+ so fast by being on a lot lol.

I have seen some shady stuff in my time in cyrodiil but try and do some fact checks before leveling accusations.

The amount of QQ from everyone about [snip] is always a pleasure reading. He knows how to get AP, I have zero gripe with that. I only wish I had factions who were as *** to play against and be so farmable.

I honestly love AP more than any other pvp accomplishment and seeing it scroll is an addiction.

Run around in the 20+man zergballs I've seen him do and you won't have that problem

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Haxnschwammer · December 2014

There are cheaters in every faction. I saw AD group lag crashing the server to get a scroll back. I saw my own faction doing the same. Most of players are fair ones who don't exploit. It's always the organized, "efficient" guilds that want to win at any costs. Even if it means destroying the game...
ZOS should swing the banhammer and should be public about it. Cheating would stop when there would be consequences. As long ZOS occasionaly patches some holes but don't ban those who abused mechanics or exploited the *** out of it cheating will continue.

Vizier · December 2014

Friendly Fire... Problem solved. Sadly that will never happen.

Joejudas · December 2014

The servers lag because the system was designed poorly. The only thing I think is currently being exploited is the keep walls being repaired at 95 under siege....which everyone is doing. This whole thread makes me laugh a bit.

WillhelmBlack · December 2014

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's mainly EP that do this on the EU server as well, I'm well used to it but it still angers me from time to time. I've said this before and I'll say it again, zergs of more than 16 players cause damage to themselves...lag fixed.

Honestly you dont need more than 16 GOOD players for an effective group.
[/quote]

That's what I'm saying in a way. I've been in really effective 8 player groups but it's still no hope when two large groups are sat on top of one another spamming healing springs and impulse on a flag.

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO · February 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's mainly EP that do this on the EU server as well, I'm well used to it but it still angers me from time to time. I've said this before and I'll say it again, zergs of more than 16 players cause damage to themselves...lag fixed.

Honestly you dont need more than 16 GOOD players for an effective group.

That's what I'm saying in a way. I've been in really effective 8 player groups but it's still no hope when two large groups are sat on top of one another spamming healing springs and impulse on a flag.

[/quote]
Pretty sad thats their only effective tactic