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Returning player a bit confused about ESO
dietlime
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Okay so, I played for months. I enjoy the game. One of the reasons I bought the game and love it is for the PvP.
Originally, the PvP was advertised as being a level playing field, scaling players of different levels. Of course, that isn't the case. So I guess I need to be VR1014 to be max level? At least half way there maybe, VR7 to be "competitive" against the widest array of players- at least stat wise? I mean, you can never counter everything; but losing just because someone has 400 hours grind worth of health more than me feels ***.
So how am I supposed to play the game? Am I supposed to play hundreds more hours of PvE quests? Is there really no faster way to level up? I want to try the new content that was added.
How do I do that? There are 0 players in my VR1 zone. I have played 8+ hours since I resubbed and I have not seen a single other player. The content is so easy it's boring, but the enemies are all damage sponges; making every quest take AGES unless I avoid every mob I can. Then, when I finish them I get 1/30th of a VR level at most?
No continuing the sub. I might try back in a few months, but this is terrible. Weapons are still disappearing when I swap them, occasional disconnects and both times I tried to play PvP a major de-synch happened after spending minutes to ride to the battle.
Also what the *** is up with light armor? All abilities still use magic, and the only good way to build magic regen is to wear light armor, so basically every player not doing stamina crit is wearing at least 5 light? Still?
Edited by dietlime on December 25, 2014 6:07PM Originally, the PvP was advertised as being a level playing field, scaling players of different levels. Of course, that isn't the case. So I guess I need to be VR1014 to be max level? At least half way there maybe, VR7 to be "competitive" against the widest array of players- at least stat wise? I mean, you can never counter everything; but losing just because someone has 400 hours grind worth of health more than me feels ***.
So how am I supposed to play the game? Am I supposed to play hundreds more hours of PvE quests? Is there really no faster way to level up? I want to try the new content that was added.
How do I do that? There are 0 players in my VR1 zone. I have played 8+ hours since I resubbed and I have not seen a single other player. The content is so easy it's boring, but the enemies are all damage sponges; making every quest take AGES unless I avoid every mob I can. Then, when I finish them I get 1/30th of a VR level at most?
No continuing the sub. I might try back in a few months, but this is terrible. Weapons are still disappearing when I swap them, occasional disconnects and both times I tried to play PvP a major de-synch happened after spending minutes to ride to the battle.
Also what the *** is up with light armor? All abilities still use magic, and the only good way to build magic regen is to wear light armor, so basically every player not doing stamina crit is wearing at least 5 light? Still?
7
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great timing for this post. I'm currently trying to level an alt. I've tried many times, but I hate questing, and grind is even worse just faster.
I was in Cyrodiil today making great AP but next to no XP. Theysay come 1.6 leveling in Cyrodiil will be on par with questing and grinding.
I sware I would pay an extra 50$ for a level capped toon![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Here is the grind guide I'm using. It's definately faster, just boring as heck.
http://rakashieso.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/complete-daggerfall-covenant-1-50-power-leveling-guide/Edited by TheBull on December 25, 2014 6:11PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard2 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Yeah I'll stick through 1.6.
If I can't play real content with other players - meaning roughly functional (read: not being one-shot by 2/3 of other players and doing 1/10 of their health in return as a VR1) PvP, repeatable and challenging dungeons that actually reward items or XP progress I can toy with, or are just fun to play on their own, or SOMETHING I can DO WITH OTHER PLAYERS in the FIRST MMO I have ever played, then I'm out.
The last 3 "400 player" guilds I joined had active TS and Mumble voip populations below 10, and everyone in each of them was either 1-5 of the VR14 people doing VR14 stuff I can't join in on, or just doing *** on their own trying to get there - for weeks on end.Edited by dietlime on December 25, 2014 6:18PM0 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭Your pretty much stuck questing or grinding. PvP and dungeons are not viable ways to level. Once you do achieve max level to be competitive in PvP you will be forced to play the same content that existed when ESO went live. Additionally, performance and gameplay in Cyrodiil has only gotten worse since launch, not better.
They state that leveling with be on par after 1.6, but I am skeptical and am fairly confident that grinding will remain the fastest way to level or gain champion points.
They may be able to boost the amount of exp per player kill or quest, but they can't change the rate of speed of those kills. If I can stand in a static place and kill mobs over and over it is far more efficient than riding my horse everywhere in Cyrodiil trying to find fights that I am not even guaranteed to win.2 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭[...]
Okay it's a game, not a job. Noob might have been more appropriate, I actually work 50 hours a week to afford this gaming PC. I'm anything but entitled.
I basically acknowledge, I'm a noob. I love ESO. It's a beautiful game. I just don't understand, what am I supposed to do with the thing?
What do you do at VR for fun that also offers progress? Where is the queue in this multi-player game that will connect me with other players and offer me an opportunity to progress and have fun with strangers? Does this game not have any kind of matchmaking? If so, it's probably as good as dead. I don't need to do more work after work to try and play a game. The game is work enough as far as forms of entertainment go.
I'm not having any real performance problems in Cyrodiil as long as it remains connected. My guess is you're either playing on an old processor with not enough CPU cache for so many players, an old GPU that just can't handle the sheer number of textures (I have played on a Core2Duo GTX460 through a i5-4670-K 760 on this game) a slow internet connection; or one that is geographically not ideal (in which case, you should just accept your loss and move on, there are games you can play).
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 25, 2014 7:30PM0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭[...]
Okay it's a game, not a job. Noob might have been more appropriate, I actually work 50 hours a week to afford this gaming PC. I'm anything but entitled.
I basically acknowledge, I'm a noob. I love ESO. It's a beautiful game. I just don't understand, what am I supposed to do with the thing?
What do you do at VR for fun that also offers progress?
I dunno. Maybe play the game like the rest of us did? Complete the quests/zones for cadwell's silver/gold? Do the Craglorn group content? Work on achievements?
A word of warning, though. The champ system is launching next year and all vet XP you gain now will be thrown in the trash when that launches and make you equal to a fresh level 50 so if you progress now it will only benefit you temporarily until it's removed later. If you complete cadwell's silver/gold content it will be used up and you won't be able to earn champion points from it later (huge XP loss). You are better off working on an alt that is pre-50 or canceling and coming back later IMO.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 25, 2014 8:20PM1 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭[...]
Okay it's a game, not a job. Noob might have been more appropriate, I actually work 50 hours a week to afford this gaming PC. I'm anything but entitled.
I basically acknowledge, I'm a noob. I love ESO. It's a beautiful game. I just don't understand, what am I supposed to do with the thing?
What do you do at VR for fun that also offers progress?
I'm not having any real performance problems in Cyrodiil as long as it remains connected. My guess is you're either playing on an old processor with not enough CPU cache for so many players, an old GPU that just can't handle the sheer number of textures (I have played on a Core2Duo GTX460 through a i5-4670-K 760 on this game) a slow internet connection; or one that is geographically not ideal (in which case, you should just accept your loss and move on, there are games you can play).
Most people don't find VR levels fun and that's why eventually they are being removed. Basically VR1-14 is just a massive time sink that is required for a small amount of pve content and to be on equal footing in pvp.
Also, if you truly want to have character progression you better shelf your VR character until 1.6 goes live as any post VR experience will not count towards the new advancement system and could be considered wasted.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 25, 2014 8:20PM0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭But I'm 4 levels from Blazing Shield
[...]
Okay it's a game, not a job. Noob might have been more appropriate, I actually work 50 hours a week to afford this gaming PC. I'm anything but entitled.
I basically acknowledge, I'm a noob. I love ESO. It's a beautiful game. I just don't understand, what am I supposed to do with the thing?
What do you do at VR for fun that also offers progress?
I dunno. Maybe play the game like the rest of us did? Complete the quests/zones for cadwell's silver/gold? Do the Craglorn group content? Work on achievements?
A word of warning, though. The champ system is launching next year and all vet XP you gain now will be thrown in the trash when that launches and make you equal to a fresh level 50 so if you progress now it will only benefit you temporarily until it's removed later. If you complete cadwell's silver/gold content it will be used up and you won't be able to earn champion points from it later (huge XP loss). You are better off working on an alt that is pre-50 or canceling and coming back later IMO.
I've seen the assumption that the quest XP opportunities will be lost. That's an assumption. They could address this somehow. Let's wait and see?
What I'm saying is that the questing isn't fun because I've been doing it non-stop, the dungeons are fun. The dungeons are fun because:
1.) There is always player interaction
2.) They are challenging
3.) They are rewarding
It looks like ESO 1.5 is sorta horrible in that the most fun parts of the game (the parts you don't do alone) have a painful barrier for entry like no other game. I don't know, it's a great game but questing alone isn't fun. If there was a group finder or facilitated system to turn questing into a multiplayer experience I could do that and enjoy it. As is, I can't because none of my friends are ever the right level to quest with, or they are otherwise at different quest status.
So it's like, I don't want to play alone; I sat down to play a multi player game. I am paying a sub to play a multi player game. I could play a single player game with deeper character interation and more interesting plots without a sub fee. Any time I try though, I can't; because the only way to make progress is to quest, and nobody is ever on the same page to quest together.
For months I played with my GF, but it became a chore. We'd want to play separately, and then we'd be unable to play together afterwards.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 25, 2014 8:20PM1 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭It's seems you have quite a few formulated opinions and are making quite a few assumptions for a player that is supposedly returning after being gone for so long. As such, I don't think you are really looking for responses, just reactions.5
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dietlime✭✭✭✭What are the 12 and 24 player modes even for?
How many hundreds of hours do I have to play before I am "privileged" enough to try 12 and 24 player ESO? Why is that option in my menu dickteasing me if I can't use it for anything? How the hell do you use it?
I have half a dozen other games that I can play 12, 24, 32, and 64 players with instantly with no effort and they're thrilling. I have two dozen single player games that are more interesting.1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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I never did that. Not even silver. I leveled through Cyrodiil. I twas different though in the beginning. All of us out there were leveling. Since then I've tried to level atleast 4 different toons multiple times. I didn't come for the quests though. I came for pvp and skills drenched in ESO lore.[...]
Okay it's a game, not a job. Noob might have been more appropriate, I actually work 50 hours a week to afford this gaming PC. I'm anything but entitled.
I basically acknowledge, I'm a noob. I love ESO. It's a beautiful game. I just don't understand, what am I supposed to do with the thing?
What do you do at VR for fun that also offers progress?
I dunno. Maybe play the game like the rest of us did? Complete the quests/zones for cadwell's silver/gold? Do the Craglorn group content? Work on achievements?
A word of warning, though. The champ system is launching next year and all vet XP you gain now will be thrown in the trash when that launches and make you equal to a fresh level 50 so if you progress now it will only benefit you temporarily until it's removed later. If you complete cadwell's silver/gold content it will be used up and you won't be able to earn champion points from it later (huge XP loss). You are better off working on an alt that is pre-50 or canceling and coming back later IMO.
You get neither a full pvp ecperience nor skills trying to level in Cyrodiil now a days. This morning I defended a keep got about 30 kills and 5 kbs as a level 12. I was awarded 2500 AP and 46 XP. 46 friken xp.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 25, 2014 8:21PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Would you say I could enjoy PvP as a VR1? I mean, I have enjoyed PvP, but getting a kill might be nice, you know?
Other than boiling oil?0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭I'm thinking the problems with this game are probably common to MMO's, but this is my first and I don't really give a *** about problems with the genre. Judging the game for it's own merits the #1 problem is that PvE content can't be grouped due to players not being in synchronized quest states / compatible levels.1
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EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The veteran questing content is indeed solo content so if you don't like the quests or playing solo you probably won't like that. You can always just work on the content and be looking for another person in the zone to work on it with you. There isn't always someone that wants to group (it's honestly faster/more efficient to do it solo) but some like to group up for at least the world bosses, public dungeons and dolmens (even though you can solo most of those as well). You can also work on stuff solo while sitting in the group finder for 4 man dungeons. That will break up the solo content every so often.I've seen the assumption that the quest XP opportunities will be lost. That's an assumption. They could address this somehow. Let's wait and see?
It's not an assumption. They have clearly stated that their current plan is to not award any further CP to players (now or in the future) outside of the 30 they are giving to any account with at least one V1 character. If you want to gamble with the largest pool of quest XP in the game that they will change their mind you could certainly do that but once the XP is used up it's gone for good so if they don't change course you lose.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Hindsight is clearly rosy for you. Most players aren't soling V1 dolmens the moment they hit V1. Unquestionably solo isn't the fastest way to do any of the content in the game by any definition; unless you're bad at agreeing which arrow you're chasing; in either case the game needs better grouping tools.
Show me where they said no changes will be made to player's current progress and that existing leveled characters will have less opportunity to gain XP. I can't find that release by ZoS. Your assumption is that no other changes will be made to address that issue.
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Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1438707/#Comment_1438707Show me where they said no changes will be made to player's current progress and that existing leveled characters will have less opportunity to gain XP. I can't find that release by ZoS. Your assumption is that no other changes will be made to address that issue.
Originally posted by Kai Schober in the German CP clarification thread.
They keep saying veterans will still have ways of gaining XP, but even if they increase rewards for activities that currently aren't an effective way of levelling up, the fact remains that they're all group and/or PvP content. Aside from mob grinding, Cadwell's quests are the only thing you can do solo.0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hindsight is clearly rosy for you. Most players aren't soling V1 dolmens the moment they hit V1. Unquestionably solo isn't the fastest way to do any of the content in the game by any definition; unless you're bad at agreeing which arrow you're chasing; in either case the game needs better grouping tools.
Show me where they said no changes will be made to player's current progress and that existing leveled characters will have less opportunity to gain XP. I can't find that release by ZoS. Your assumption is that no other changes will be made to address that issue.
Actually, no. It was much faster for me to solo. The more people you add the more complicated it gets as to who needs what quests completed and then nobody has the same quests completed so you end up doing things twice (not saying there is anything wrong with grouping but it's not as efficient time-wise).
As for soloing I guess it depends on your skill and maybe class. As a templar I was easily soloing dolmens at my level all the way through silver and gold. I solo'd every public dungeon including group challenges. There were a few world bosses I couldn't solo but I was able to solo probably 95% of those as well. I'm sure if you play a DK you could easily do as well as a templar. NB maybe not as much depending on your build (I leveled my NB before the vet nerfs so it was much harder then plus NB was much more broken). No clue about sorc.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭
Actually, no. It was much faster for me to solo. The more people you add the more complicated it gets as to who needs what quests completed and then nobody has the same quests completed so you end up doing things twice (not saying there is anything wrong with grouping but it's not as efficient time-wise).
.
How much time does that take. Why do that alone in a massively mutliplayer game, when you could just spend the same time playing a multiplayer game and actually have meaningful interaction the entire time?
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dietlime✭✭✭✭
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1438707/#Comment_1438707Show me where they said no changes will be made to player's current progress and that existing leveled characters will have less opportunity to gain XP. I can't find that release by ZoS. Your assumption is that no other changes will be made to address that issue.
Originally posted by Kai Schober in the German CP clarification thread.
They keep saying veterans will still have ways of gaining XP, but even if they increase rewards for activities that currently aren't an effective way of levelling up, the fact remains that they're all group and/or PvP content. Aside from mob grinding, Cadwell's quests are the only thing you can do solo.
Who says they can't give the option to do those quests again?0 -
KefkaGestahl✭✭✭It's still that much of a pain? Ugh... I played the game at launch with my brothers, and got up to VR 10. I wasn't happy with that character, and they weren't happy with the game. They quit, but I decided to delete that character and start over. I wanted to use the same name so deletion was my only option.
Suffice it to say, I gave up. Every few months, I reinstall the game and give it another go, only to be reminded of just how awful the veteran system is. I was in the process of reinstalling as I browsed these forums, but this thread...
I've changed my mind once again. I don't think I'd have it in me.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Don't do what I did and jump the gun. Do it when they release 1.6
The game is much more stable now, and runs better than ever before. There are a lot of neat additions, but core issues remain.
I'd say see what's up when they change the endgame (for realsies, not "durr we made VR levels more reasonable" - 6 1/2 hours and a dozen bosses later I'm still 30% through one level) and the way stats and softcaps work and maybe there will be an interesting game.
I love the multiplayer, but I'm not playing 200-some hours of a boring and shallow single player game that isn't compelling at all just to experience that.1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Also for our purposes we'll assume anyone claiming they "just did" that content, those players were probably cheating. If you actually enjoy the challenge of finding every delve and skyshard, *** you: if you missed one you aren't making progress.
I guarantee you those players are using mods. When a game is unplayable stock that's bad design.Edited by dietlime on December 26, 2014 12:33AM0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Actually, no. It was much faster for me to solo. The more people you add the more complicated it gets as to who needs what quests completed and then nobody has the same quests completed so you end up doing things twice (not saying there is anything wrong with grouping but it's not as efficient time-wise).
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How much time does that take. Why do that alone in a massively mutliplayer game, when you could just spend the same time playing a multiplayer game and actually have meaningful interaction the entire time?
It doesn't take any time at all. It's not hard. I didn't say you *shouldn't* group with other people but the bulk of that leveling content is easily completed solo so it's just more efficient to do it solo.
I'm not saying you shouldn't group with anyone. By all means do it but you don't *need* others to complete most of it. I did group for some of the content like world bosses but I didn't go out of my way to find people or wait for them. I prefer more challenging group content which you will get from 4 man dungeons and Craglorn.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭That's just hyperbole. VR content "doesn't take any time at all"?
[snip]
I enjoy 4 man dungeons and Craglorn as well. What I'm saying is: there shouldn't be 200+ hours of SINGLE PLAYER GRIND in an MMO before it's endgame in 2014!
It's not fun, man! I've played all three factions to 50! There isn't anything new or interesting there. To add offense to injury, the VXP required bloody COMPLETIONISM just to get the biggest chunks of it? Why can't I just play through like regular if that's how it's going to be? I seriously have to turn over every stone a third time?
VERY legitimate criticism!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 26, 2014 9:15PM1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm in the same boat.
I LOVE the PvP in ESO. I also really enjoyed leveling and the main story. And heck, I enjoy a dungeon every once in a while with my friends.
But I don't enjoy grinding. Not for gear and not for levels.
I want to be able to max character without having to return to PvE every so often to grind for new gear or more levels. Sometimes I WANT to do PvE but I never want to be forced to do it to stay competitive.
I'm not a horse and I don't enjoy chasing carrots.
My hope is that the champion system will do away with that feeling. If not I'll just move on.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Sad part is I love questing too, but only in small doses. It's not like that effort is wasted.
I am 99.99% sure 1.6 is basically an "oh *** we bunged it up" 180 turn on the VR system in-progress do-over mulligan synonym for getting the *** rid of that garbage and that's why you're only getting 30 CP, because CP will not be comprable to VR ranks in any way; and the game is about to be rebalanced such that "VR1" is a plateau beyond which there are a variety of challenges to be attempted some of which will be easier with enough CP to make a build more powerful but not just giving that build 500 more health.0 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Which is what they were going for, since VR levels only give you a tiny stat gain. Combine it with the gear gains though, and it's a big gulf between 1 and 14.
I think that gulf is the only reason anyone ever did VR content, I think they're getting rid of that gulf by making the endgame a gear challenge.
If they remove VR ranks down the road, how will the gate gear? What about all the crafting that's gear-level based? I do not understand!0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Actually, no. It was much faster for me to solo. The more people you add the more complicated it gets as to who needs what quests completed and then nobody has the same quests completed so you end up doing things twice (not saying there is anything wrong with grouping but it's not as efficient time-wise).
.
How much time does that take. Why do that alone in a massively mutliplayer game, when you could just spend the same time playing a multiplayer game and actually have meaningful interaction the entire time?
It doesn't take any time at all. It's not hard. I didn't say you *shouldn't* group with other people but the bulk of that leveling content is easily completed solo so it's just more efficient to do it solo.
I'm not saying you shouldn't group with anyone. By all means do it but you don't *need* others to complete most of it. I did group for some of the content like world bosses but I didn't go out of my way to find people or wait for them. I prefer more challenging group content which you will get from 4 man dungeons and Craglorn.
You asked how much time it took. I thought you meant how much extra time if solo. It's no extra time solo. Yes, the entire silver/gold content takes a while. In any event you have your mind made up about everything so no point in discussing it further. Just play something else if you don't like it.0 -
Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@dietlime
Considering all your post, I think that not only ESO is not a game for you, but also MMO in general is not a genre for you.
If you do not enjoy the stories
If you want immediate matching with other player (doesn't exist in MMO except World of Warcraft)
If you find the combat boring
If you hate to be killed in PVP
If you can not be arsed to level and gear up your character properly, join a guild and being a dedicated player to be able to do the 12man content
I think you will never be happy in ESO. You just have to accept this is not the right game for you and you might be happier with something completely different. Maybe Diablo3? Maybe another genre.
I wish you happy Hollidays and best wishes for 2015.4 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Okay so, I played for months. I enjoy the game. One of the reasons I bought the game and love it is for the PvP.
Originally, the PvP was advertised as being a level playing field, scaling players of different levels. Of course, that isn't the case. So I guess I need to be VR1014 to be max level? At least half way there maybe, VR7 to be "competitive" against the widest array of players- at least stat wise? I mean, you can never counter everything; but losing just because someone has 400 hours grind worth of health more than me feels ***.
So how am I supposed to play the game? Am I supposed to play hundreds more hours of PvE quests? Is there really no faster way to level up? I want to try the new content that was added.
How do I do that? There are 0 players in my VR1 zone. I have played 8+ hours since I resubbed and I have not seen a single other player. The content is so easy it's boring, but the enemies are all damage sponges; making every quest take AGES unless I avoid every mob I can. Then, when I finish them I get 1/30th of a VR level at most?
No continuing the sub. I might try back in a few months, but this is terrible. Weapons are still disappearing when I swap them, occasional disconnects and both times I tried to play PvP a major de-synch happened after spending minutes to ride to the battle.
Also what the *** is up with light armor? All abilities still use magic, and the only good way to build magic regen is to wear light armor, so basically every player not doing stamina crit is wearing at least 5 light? Still?
So, basically I get the impression that this is just a complain post, but I'll try to provide some info to a newly returning player.
The stat, gear, progression systems in the game are currently undergoing a major overhaul in phases. The final product will be VR levels going away entirely. Obviously, this information doesn't help you today, but it does let you know that your concern has been noted and is being addressed over the coming months.
Go here and look through this stuff if you are interested.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-details/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/
Edited by timidobserver on December 26, 2014 4:26AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1