Why does solar flare not increase the damage of puncturing strike ?

Dracane · December 2014

Greetings,

I'm playing a Templar for the first time today and I wanted to combine the melee version of Solar flare with puncuring strikes. But solar flare does not increase the damage of puncuring strike. Why is that so ? Or do I need the melee version of solar flare, to get an increase ? I haven't morphed it yet, because I have to decide, if I want to be a melee Templar or ranged Templar and melee seems better for Templar (at least in my opinion)

Dekkameron · December 2014

I think it only effects the very first hit not all of them

Dracane · December 2014

I've dealt a total of 60 damage with all 4 hits without solar flare and 60 with solar flare. So no increase

Dracane · December 2014

I have tested it, puncturing strike does not even activate solar flare. When I use solar flare, there is that yellow glowing on the target for a few seconds. After puncturin strike, it's still there and my next normal attack does still gain the 40% increase.

Robocles · December 2014

Ok... I'm trying to remember form a LONG way back... but, iirc, it doesn't work with PS because it's a channel.

Dracane · December 2014

Ah that makes sense, same for restoration staff channel.
And can you tell me, if Aedric speer abilities scale with weapon or magic damage ? this is not really clear to me. Radial sweape and the javelin seems to scale with magic damage, but not sure about puncturing strikes

Robocles · December 2014

Um... they all scale with magicka. The melee range abilities use weapon crit atm, the ranged ones magic crit... I'll have to test to be completely sure.

I do know that blazing spear in a magicka stacked build is just stupidly powerful in PVE atm.

Francescolg · December 2014

Hello young Templar

you have chosen a class which will be much, way more easier to play without thinking too much about it! So STOP THINKING about it, writing tickets with suggestions and do not hope to obtain any positive buffs because you wrote about it in the forums

Now, back to serious: Given that a 50 spell/weapon power buff IS SO IMBA, we just get this bonus for the next strike

It doesn't work with channeled abilities.
While other classes may have a +power skill that lasts for a longer period, or even set bonuses that are more effective, Templar's are not... (remember what I wrote before? STOP THINKING!)
The "melee version of Solar Flare works best with: *Ultimates* & *Other AEs* But, now, given that most templar AEs do mediocre damage, no matter if +50 power or not (!), STOP THINKING!

Fo course, you wanna try out a destruction staff and combine it with the AE but remember what I wrote about damage.. specially magic damage & templars... If you don't remember you are the wise guy who chose to STOP THINKING! :disagree: kudos to you
Now, this is where I stopped thinking (but not writing): Templar AEs trigger "magic damage", opposing to all other classes, templars get no passives that work with the weapon skills.. that means everything we do is much less effective, other classes have little bonuses/etc. to weapon skill damage types.
And to make you even more mad: if you really like Solar Barrage and puncturing strike, etc. you need melee crit % and spell dmg + magicka, more crit = more ultimates. But, for effective healing you need magic crit! This is where it starts to get complicated, so I stop thinking now

hf

Robocles · December 2014

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello young Templar
you have chosen a class which will be much, way more easier to play without thinking too much about it! So STOP THINKING about it, writing tickets with suggestions and do not hope to obtain any positive buffs because you wrote about it in the forums

Now, back to serious: Given that a 50 spell/weapon power buff IS SO IMBA, we just get this bonus for the next strike It doesn't work with channeled abilities.
While other classes may have a +power skill that lasts for a longer period, or even set bonuses that are more effective, Templar's are not... (remember what I wrote before? STOP THINKING!)
The "melee version of Solar Flare works best with: *Ultimates* & *Other AEs* But, now, given that most templar AEs do mediocre damage, no matter if +50 power or not (!), STOP THINKING!
Fo course, you wanna try out a destruction staff and combine it with the AE but remember what I wrote about damage.. specially magic damage & templars... If you don't remember you are the wise guy who chose to STOP THINKING! :disagree: kudos to you
Now, this is where I stopped thinking (but not writing): Templar AEs trigger "magic damage", opposing to all other classes, templars get no passives that work with the weapon skills.. that means everything we do is much less effective, other classes have little bonuses/etc. to weapon skill damage types.
And to make you even more mad: if you really like Solar Barrage and puncturing strike, etc. you need melee crit % and spell dmg + magicka, more crit = more ultimates. But, for effective healing you need magic crit! This is where it starts to get complicated, so I stop thinking now hf

Lol.

I need a drink.

jopeymonster · December 2014

Solar Flare/Barrage/Dark Flare, like (almost) everything else in the Dawn's Wrath tree is worthless.

The solution to your problem is to respec and never spend points on that skill again =D

As an alternative to boost dps, spec into the Mage's Guild passive, Might of the Guild, and use Volcanic Rune. Better initial damage, has CC, and with the passive, provides a boost for all your spell power attacks per time, not single instance attack.

Dracane · December 2014

So should I better stop playing Templar, if it's too weak ?

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

Dracane wrote: »

So should I better stop playing Templar, if it's too weak ?

Templar in a nutshell:

PVE Tanking: B+
PVE DPS (Stamina/Melee): C+
PVE DPS (Magicka/Ranged): F-
PVE Healing: A
PVP Pure DPS: D
PVP Tanky/Survivability: C
PVP Healer: C
Solo PVE/Leveling: A+

Strengths: Strong Burst heal, solid survivability tools, strong stamina regeneration without gearing for it.

Weaknesses: Horrid magicka management, very weak DPS abilities in class trees, with Blazing Spear and Vampire's Bane being essentially the only two worth it in PVE DPS rotations. In PVP, it's more about outlasting against anybody skilled than having the ability to kick their ass. Solo PVE is very effective, but Puncturing Sweep spam is very, very, very boring.

Dracane · December 2014

It can't be worse than Sorcerer

Sorcerer is already on the bottom of all things. The Templar looks so awesome on the paper.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

Dracane wrote: »

It can't be worse than Sorcerer Sorcerer is already on the bottom of all things. The Templar looks so awesome on the paper.

It is actually, at least in PVP and as PVE DPS. Sorcs are actually greatly undersold as tanks. If you can find a well-played one, you'll understand what I mean immediately.

Soris · December 2014

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello young Templar
you have chosen a class which will be much, way more easier to play without thinking too much about it! So STOP THINKING about it, writing tickets with suggestions and do not hope to obtain any positive buffs because you wrote about it in the forums

Now, back to serious: Given that a 50 spell/weapon power buff IS SO IMBA, we just get this bonus for the next strike It doesn't work with channeled abilities.
While other classes may have a +power skill that lasts for a longer period, or even set bonuses that are more effective, Templar's are not... (remember what I wrote before? STOP THINKING!)
The "melee version of Solar Flare works best with: *Ultimates* & *Other AEs* But, now, given that most templar AEs do mediocre damage, no matter if +50 power or not (!), STOP THINKING!
Fo course, you wanna try out a destruction staff and combine it with the AE but remember what I wrote about damage.. specially magic damage & templars... If you don't remember you are the wise guy who chose to STOP THINKING! :disagree: kudos to you
Now, this is where I stopped thinking (but not writing): Templar AEs trigger "magic damage", opposing to all other classes, templars get no passives that work with the weapon skills.. that means everything we do is much less effective, other classes have little bonuses/etc. to weapon skill damage types.
And to make you even more mad: if you really like Solar Barrage and puncturing strike, etc. you need melee crit % and spell dmg + magicka, more crit = more ultimates. But, for effective healing you need magic crit! This is where it starts to get complicated, so I stop thinking now hf

Great post, but I should make a correction^^
Solar flare bonus is a flat 50 damage, not 50 spell/weapon power. And it can be used by anyone, not just templar. Most of the time, when in a group fight, you cant get any bonus for your spells because of this.

Robocles · December 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello young Templar
you have chosen a class which will be much, way more easier to play without thinking too much about it! So STOP THINKING about it, writing tickets with suggestions and do not hope to obtain any positive buffs because you wrote about it in the forums

Now, back to serious: Given that a 50 spell/weapon power buff IS SO IMBA, we just get this bonus for the next strike It doesn't work with channeled abilities.
While other classes may have a +power skill that lasts for a longer period, or even set bonuses that are more effective, Templar's are not... (remember what I wrote before? STOP THINKING!)
The "melee version of Solar Flare works best with: *Ultimates* & *Other AEs* But, now, given that most templar AEs do mediocre damage, no matter if +50 power or not (!), STOP THINKING!
Fo course, you wanna try out a destruction staff and combine it with the AE but remember what I wrote about damage.. specially magic damage & templars... If you don't remember you are the wise guy who chose to STOP THINKING! :disagree: kudos to you
Now, this is where I stopped thinking (but not writing): Templar AEs trigger "magic damage", opposing to all other classes, templars get no passives that work with the weapon skills.. that means everything we do is much less effective, other classes have little bonuses/etc. to weapon skill damage types.
And to make you even more mad: if you really like Solar Barrage and puncturing strike, etc. you need melee crit % and spell dmg + magicka, more crit = more ultimates. But, for effective healing you need magic crit! This is where it starts to get complicated, so I stop thinking now hf

Great post, but I should make a correction^^
Solar flare bonus is a flat 50 damage, not 50 spell/weapon power. And it can be used by anyone, not just templar. Most of the time, when in a group fight, you cant get any bonus for your spells because of this.

It's power, not flat damage. But, yes, can be triggered by any other player doing damage.

Dracane · December 2014

So how should I play my Templar ? One of you has mentioned Stamina build (though I don't see, how this is usefull) It is a big trade off, Templar has amazing class skills in my opinion and sacrifising Magicka and magical damage seems like an unintelligent step to me.

But I have no clue, how to play a melee fighter. I was ranged for 11 months

I'm no using sword and shield for 2 more slots and use my class skills.

Pmarsico9 · December 2014

Dracane wrote: »

So how should I play my Templar ? One of you has mentioned Stamina build (though I don't see, how this is usefull) It is a big trade off, Templar has amazing class skills in my opinion and sacrifising Magicka and magical damage seems like an unintelligent step to me.

But I have no clue, how to play a melee fighter. I was ranged for 11 months I'm no using sword and shield for 2 more slots and use my class skills.

DPS:
Solo:
Light Armor, Magicka, Resto Staff/Sword and Board, spam puncturing sweep, go defensive with sword and board when needed.

Group PVE:
5 piece medium, 2 piece heavy, two hander/bow loadout. Bow will work just fine for you. Keep Restoring aura on both bars and don't use Critical Rush or Scatter Shot. Take all 2 handed passives and all bow passives but Hawk Eye.

Trust me, I struggled with what you want to do and it doesn't work and there's no way to make it work. Your damage will suck and you'll be hitting Spell Symmetry like a fiend to try to sustain it.

I can easily sustain 750 DPS this way. The class just has no synergy with the destro staff and is too resource starved to make anything out of it.

Robocles · December 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

So how should I play my Templar ? One of you has mentioned Stamina build (though I don't see, how this is usefull) It is a big trade off, Templar has amazing class skills in my opinion and sacrifising Magicka and magical damage seems like an unintelligent step to me.

But I have no clue, how to play a melee fighter. I was ranged for 11 months I'm no using sword and shield for 2 more slots and use my class skills.

DPS:
Solo:
Light Armor, Magicka, Resto Staff/Sword and Board, spam puncturing sweep, go defensive with sword and board when needed.

Group PVE:
5 piece medium, 2 piece heavy, two hander/bow loadout. Bow will work just fine for you. Keep Restoring aura on both bars and don't use Critical Rush or Scatter Shot. Take all 2 handed passives and all bow passives but Hawk Eye.

Trust me, I struggled with what you want to do and it doesn't work and there's no way to make it work. Your damage will suck and you'll be hitting Spell Symmetry like a fiend to try to sustain it.

I can easily sustain 750 DPS this way. The class just has no synergy with the destro staff and is too resource starved to make anything out of it.

I agree with this, mainly... but, for Solo, I use Blazing Spear... magicka stacked (with food buffs too) and as much magicka regen as I can muster. Unlike strikes, you can block cast it. Also, when facing groups of enemies, it will get them all stunned withing a few casts (not sure why it works like that, but I love it). Then, at the end of the fight, hit repentance and poof... health and stam are back to full. You can do that with literally any weapon.

jopeymonster · December 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It can't be worse than Sorcerer Sorcerer is already on the bottom of all things. The Templar looks so awesome on the paper.

It is actually, at least in PVP and as PVE DPS. Sorcs are actually greatly undersold as tanks. If you can find a well-played one, you'll understand what I mean immediately.

Sword/Board Sorcs pwnface in PvP.
Bow/DW Sorcs kill it it in PvE

Sorcs and DKs are great for any weapon style. Quality of the player is what is the deciding factor. Most sorcs that are subpar now are the bandwagonning Impulse/Crushing spammers that are unaware of Sorc skill synergy.

If a Templar/Sorc/NB knows it's class, it can top the charts in anything. The only class that is faceroll.... DK. But that's how it's been since beta.

Nothing new to see here, /movealong

danno8 · December 2014

Dracane wrote: »

But solar flare does not increase the damage of puncuring strike. Why is that so ?

Because as a Templar your skills MUST be awkward, underwhelming and generally ineffective with poor synergy with the rest of your skills.

TLDR; because Templar.

/pessimism

Robocles · December 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

But solar flare does not increase the damage of puncuring strike. Why is that so ?

Because as a Templar your skills MUST be awkward, underwhelming and generally ineffective with poor synergy with the rest of your skills.

TLDR; because Templar.

/pessimism

It's already been stated that it is because it's a channel.

If you really want to use it, there are plenty of single target and aoe skills you can use that take advantage of it. And, it also works on weapon skills.

Francescolg · December 2014

As sb. answered very wisely: Forget about solar flare/barrage and go for the 20% magic guild passive damage bonus!
You can use volcanic rune or "spell symmetry" (you should use this anyways every 2 skills) and then have the 20% more damage, which is more stronger than 50 weapon/magic power.
My PvP rotation in zerg battles is a) any skill b) spell symmetry c) blazing shield d) Breath of life e) spell symmetry f)blazing shield/Nova and e) heal again. (you can heal more, depending on situation). Iny any "better" group your spell-symmetry autodmg is healed by your mate's healing springs/etc.

You can even play a battle-healer (where we are strong at), that means even charge isn't really needed, you need immovable, blazing shield, than you walk in between the lines of battle and keep purging/healing/buffing (rapid maneuver/stamina reggen/radiant aura - of course, only 1-2 templars in a pvp group should do that).
(You could also try solar barrage + impulse and go for fastest ultimate reggen but, then, you'd need Ultimates that hurt [and cost less than 248 ultimate points^^ - just kidding])

Do not blame the DEVs for Purge/Rapid Meneuvre/radiant aura not regenerating any ultimate points.. I mean everybody loves Templars for +80% stamina/life regen and everbody wants you to purge BUT they also want you to build up your ultimates. That won't work together! Nonetheless, we have a very specific templar-group role, which is nice just to have it! Just stop-thinking, why - if you play a 100% pure supporter - you'll not regenrate ultimates sufficiently - this is a problem since release.
Even the guy behind the lines who is using just his siege weapon will regenerate much more ultimates, than any templar who just buffs/debuffs his group all the time.

Only solution = completely remove the Ultimate-system, give us 6 up to 10 skills on a bar and have spell cooldowns (that would be "fair ultimates").
Actually, you can not play every role you want in the game, given that some excel at Ultimate Regeneration much better than.. Stop thinking!

Dracane · December 2014

Unfortunately, the 20% damage increase of mage's guild skills is not even true.
I have tested it with my crystal shard and the real increase was only 5%.

Francescolg · December 2014

It works pretty well for me Biting Jabs + Blazing Shield, just test it in PvE

Some months ago we even had an 5-piece-armor bonus giving another 20% but it was removed in 1.3.x :-((

danno8 · December 2014

Robocles wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

But solar flare does not increase the damage of puncuring strike. Why is that so ?

Because as a Templar your skills MUST be awkward, underwhelming and generally ineffective with poor synergy with the rest of your skills.

TLDR; because Templar.

/pessimism

It's already been stated that it is because it's a channel.

If you really want to use it, there are plenty of single target and aoe skills you can use that take advantage of it. And, it also works on weapon skills.

It is still an awkward skill that has a cast time and only gives the bonus on the next skill, and it is not a self buff but rather a debuff placed on your enemies which means in a group you have no control over what uses the debuff up.

Solar Barrage still has the overlong GCD that makes it hard to use. AFAIK people who use Dark Flare use it only for the healing debuff, not for the DPS or "bonus damage on the next hit" aspect of the skill.

If you compare the this skill the other classes "Weapon Damage increase" type spell (so Molten Weapons, Sap Essence, or Crit Surge) Solar Flare is so much worse it is not even in the same league.

So, as I said, awkward, underwhelming and generally ineffective with poor synergy.

edit: also of note, apparently the "new" execute sounds like it will be a channeled skill, so Solar Flare and its morphs will not work with it.

Although even if it did it would probably end up being a net DPS loss as the bonus damage from Solar Flare is too small compared to the huge 100's of % that executes receive against low health victims.

A suggestion is to make the debuff last for several seconds on the enemy and not get consumed after one hit. I think this would actually net a DPS increase after several shots from many skills, especially in a group.