Welcome to TESO have a nice an beautifull day 8)

Gyudan · December 2014

JKorr wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Etori wrote: »

Oh hey! Stuff that hasn't been talked about before!

I would imagine there are far more casual gamers than power gamers. When politicians try and get as many votes as possible who do they target? The largest demographic (ie not the top 1%)

Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money and usually politicians tend to listen to the people that finance their campaigns, especially in countries like the US.

Edit: Oh and people who are casual gamers(and aren't VR14) don't care about being as powerful as raiders and would proly welcome the free CP points they don't even deserve, so I don't see how giving to each it's own would make people unhappy.

Been playing since beta/early access. Bought the Imperial edition. Still playing, still have an active account.

Pray tell, unless the people who are VR14 have been sending extra money to Zenimax out of the goodness of their hearts, how exactly have those players "given them the most money"? Did the VR14 players pick a special "get charged more money" subscription? Everyone has been playing the same amount of time.

I have 8 characters on the live server, 3 on the pts. I haven't been rushing the content or grinding because I wanna be uber leet powerful for "raids" or in pvp. I still don't have any characters over vr 5.

Now, who will Zenimax end up getting more money from? The vr14 players who rushed the content and did the experience grind to get where they are, or the players like me who haven't rushed the content and will keep playing longer to make it to vr 14/whatever the champion rank equivalent will be?

I guess, according to your standards, I'm a casual player, even though I was in the private beta, and have been playing since early access. I plan to continue giving Zenimax money as long as I'm enjoying the game. Given all the outraged threads about this, I might be giving them money longer than the vr14 players who are planning to cancel their subs.

Take a look at youtube. Among the 13,200 videos tagged with "Elder Scrolls Online" in the past 30 days, I believe that a majority comes from players who have already completed the 1-50 and have advanced into the veteran ranks, sometime VR1-VR5, often up to VR14.

Those videos are a great way for potential new players to take a look at the game and decide if they want to invest $50 in the possibility that they will enjoy it very much.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

It has NOTHING to do with the health of the game, Its just a cash grab. For every unsubbed player you bring back that will actually stay ,you will be losing loyal paying customers that have stuck with the game over the last few months. Those players are soooo much more important to the helth and longevity of this game. You can't punish your hardcore player base and expect the game to grow. Yourself and others seem to be underestimating how important those type of players are to the growth of this game. ZoS understands this and its not what is important to them. Its about the money and nothing else. They are a business after all so we have to either accept that or move on. It just needs to be made more clearly what their true intentions are, as they cant come out and say this. Its up to us to be smart enough to call them on it though, so hopefully the right thing gets done, and they are forced to stick to their original promises.

Inklings · December 2014

Lionxoft wrote: »

More people to play/hang out with and create potentially long lasting relationships is a bad thing? Cash grab? Sure. A bad one? Nope.

Just want to point out another thing... By that definition every piece of new content would be considered a cash grab :P

What about the players, guildies and more important friends we are losing over this? You seem to totally ignore the fact that this is causing people to quite as well. Bringing people back who have have been flaky in renewing subscriptions is not a good thing when it causing the loss of loyal hardcore players. If you can't keep those players happy you're never going to have a healthy, stable population.

Mumyo · December 2014

Etori wrote: »

Oh hey! Stuff that hasn't been talked about before!

I would imagine there are far more casual gamers than power gamers. When politicians try and get as many votes as possible who do they target? The largest demographic (ie not the top 1%)

The anger is just due to the wrong promisses.
They have to stop announcing things before they have any clue about it theirselves.

Guppet · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

It has NOTHING to do with the health of the game, Its just a cash grab. For every unsubbed player you bring back that will actually stay ,you will be losing loyal paying customers that have stuck with the game over the last few months. Those players are soooo much more important to the helth and longevity of this game. You can't punish your hardcore player base and expect the game to grow. Yourself and others seem to be underestimating how important those type of players are to the growth of this game. ZoS understands this and its not what is important to them. Its about the money and nothing else. They are a business after all so we have to either accept that or move on. It just needs to be made more clearly what their true intentions are, as they cant come out and say this. Its up to us to be smart enough to call them on it though, so hopefully the right thing gets done, and they are forced to stick to their original promises.

Here's the rub, what you are saying is a cash grab may well remove some of the more extreme players from the game, it will also bring back less extreme players (who may well have quit for other reasons than being flakey, perhaps they hated the VR concept for example), who's numbers may well eclipse those that they loose. If that happens, this "cash grab" actually does impact the future health of the game.

Do you think they will loose more hard-core players (not all hard-core players will quit), than players they may gain or bring back?

Hard-core players aver very much the minority. But for some strange reason some of them believe they are more important. They are not.

Kraen · December 2014

Hardcore players are the minority that is driving the game.

They are doing videos, podcasts, streams, writting blogs, creating fansites. They are pushing the game forward, and keeping the community and competition up. If you think they are unimportant, you have serious lack of knowledge about how the community works. Many times, involvement and enthusiasm of hardcore player goes way beyond his 15 bucks subscription (exceptions may exist and do exist).

Community without leaders will fall apart. If you think that casual player doing fishing on Auridon is the community wise same important person as guildmaster of the best Daggerfall Covenant raiding guild ( @xMovingTarget happens to be that person), or member of the best EP EU raiding guild ( @magnusnet happens to be the one) , you are wrong.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

It has NOTHING to do with the health of the game, Its just a cash grab. For every unsubbed player you bring back that will actually stay ,you will be losing loyal paying customers that have stuck with the game over the last few months. Those players are soooo much more important to the helth and longevity of this game. You can't punish your hardcore player base and expect the game to grow. Yourself and others seem to be underestimating how important those type of players are to the growth of this game. ZoS understands this and its not what is important to them. Its about the money and nothing else. They are a business after all so we have to either accept that or move on. It just needs to be made more clearly what their true intentions are, as they cant come out and say this. Its up to us to be smart enough to call them on it though, so hopefully the right thing gets done, and they are forced to stick to their original promises.

Here's the rub, what you are saying is a cash grab may well remove some of the more extreme players from the game, it will also bring back less extreme players (who may well have quit for other reasons than being flakey, perhaps they hated the VR concept for example), who's numbers may well eclipse those that they loose. If that happens, this "cash grab" actually does impact the future health of the game.

Do you think they will loose more hard-core players (not all hard-core players will quit), than players they may gain or bring back?

Hard-core players aver very much the minority. But for some strange reason some of them believe they are more important. They are not.

I'm sorry but we have seen it time and time again in other games. Those players who arnt loyal often leave after resubbing in situations like this. The ones that stay are far and few from the ones that leave again. Those hardcore loyal players that are going to leave will be higher then the resubs that stay. This is going to be a "game" that ZoS is going to have to keep playing to keep subs. They need to learn to appease both. Their current plan to handle this not doing that.

In a past post you even agreed that in a short time the gap in CP is going to be very noticeable. If that is the case what does a week or two matter in the scope of all this. There is ZERO reason not to keep that promise to the hardcore players that that they would be compensated for their time grinding exp.

On a totally different note, i want to thank you for being civil in this conversation. The amount of childish remarks i'm reading by both sides of this argument doesn't help either side. I hope more people take notice to your post and learn how to argue their positions on this subject. Happy holidays to you!

Guppet · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

Hardcore players are the minority that is driving the game.

They are doing videos, podcasts, streams, writting blogs, creating fansites. They are pushing the game forward, and keeping the community and competition up. If you think they are unimportant, you have serious lack of knowledge about how the community works. Many times, involvement and enthusiasm of hardcore player goes way beyong his 15 bucks subscription.

Community without leaders will fall apart.

You are not community leaders. You may be guild leaders, but people not in your guilds generally could not give a monkeys what you do. The only person you are this important to is yourself.

This is what the whole thing boils down to, some people get too much of their self worth from, a game. Its something you pay to play, not something that should be providing you with validation.

This game lacks several key features that are most dominated by hard-core players in other games. There are no arean's there are no raids, in most other MMO's those are the most competitive parts, ESO does not have them. Perhaps ESO is not aimed at hard-core players.

VR was clearly put in for hard-core players and guess what, it almost killed the game and its being pulled out, to bring back more casual players.

Kraen · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

You are not community leaders. You may be guild leaders, but people not in your guilds generally could not give a monkeys what you do. The only person you are this important to is yourself.

Well, this part of your post clearly shows that you dont understand how the communities of players that are actually working together towards something work.

We actually care about what our guildmaster says, and very often, we are much tighter communities than in casual guilds. We actually give much more than a monkeys about what the other guildies (and othe good guilds) do think. We play together, we are successfull together, and eventually, we will abandon the game together. Because huge part of MMO is community for us (massive multiplayer online aspect).

Another thing, there are also other guilds, and to them, we are providing competition. ESO with its leaderboards system creates competitive environment, which would not exist withotu competitors like we are.

But I am not speaking only about guilds here. Hardcore players also happen to be creators of free internet promotions for the game, in forms of blogs, websites, videos. I am creator of only ESO website in my country, and majority of ESO players of my nationality do read that website before and even after they buy the game. If players like that abandon the game, their products will end with them, and so will the free promotion they are providing to the game.

I am not arguing with you, I am just trying to describe to you pov of another group of players that is also important for the game. You call us "unimportant", and thats why I think you fail to understand to the imporance of different group of players than the one you are in.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

You are not community leaders. You may be guild leaders, but people not in your guilds generally could not give a monkeys what you do. The only person you are this important to is yourself.

You couldn't be more wrong. I see how important these people are everyday on forums and in twitch streams. I have lost count on the number of people i have seen buy the game after watching streamers like Defatank, Crazmadsci, Erlexx and others who are really championing the game.

If they werent doing anything for the game or its players, ZoS would not be backing them. They wouldn't be hosting them on their social media and they would sure as hell not being giving them items for giveaways like they do.

Not only does the game thrive from these type of players but so do these key players guilds, which in turn benefits EVERYONE in their guilds.

Guppet wrote: »

VR was clearly put in for hard-core players and guess what, it almost killed the game and its being pulled out, to bring back more casual players.

You and others that keep saying this really got to get in your heads that gaining CP is going to be just as much of a grind. If you really think 3,200 CP is going to be less then a grind then 14 vr levels, you are in for a shock!

Kraen · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

VR was clearly put in for hard-core players and guess what, it almost killed the game and its being pulled out, to bring back more casual players.

This utter nonsense almost doesnt need the commentary. What was hardcore about Veteran Content? The grind? With Champion System, you are getting the same thing 10x.

Veteran Ranks were created to add more content for everyone without almost any work (copypaste) and to allow players to see other Alliance´s content without need of playing for other Alliances. You sure do remember how players cried for such an opportunity.

Guppet · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

You are not community leaders. You may be guild leaders, but people not in your guilds generally could not give a monkeys what you do. The only person you are this important to is yourself.

Well, this part of your post clearly shows that you dont understand how the communities of players that are actually working together towards something work.

We actually care about what our guildmaster says, and very often, we are much tighter communities than in casual guilds. We actually give much more than a monkeys about what the other guildies (and othe good guilds) do think. We play together, we are successfull together, and eventually, we will abandon the game together. Because huge part of MMO is community for us (massive multiplayer online aspect).

Another thing, there are also other guilds, and to them, we are providing competition. ESO with its leaderboards system creates competitive environment, which would not exist withotu competitors like we are.

But I am not speaking only about guilds here. Hardcore players also happen to be creators of free internet promotions for the game, in forms of blogs, websites, videos. I am creator of only ESO website in my country, and majority of ESO players of my nationality do read that website before and even after they buy the game. If players like that abandon the game, their products will end with them, and so will the free promotion they are providing to the game.

I am not arguing with you, I am just trying to describe to you pov of another group of players that is also important for the game. You call us "unimportant", and thats why I think you fail to understand to the imporance of different group of players than the one you are in.

Just to be 100% clear, some hard-core players are very much beneficial, they can provide services for other players, I would never doubt that, but the vast majority are no where near as important as they think.

Just look at the polls from all of this fuss that has happened. Those threatening to quit, would have you believe that the vast majority are ready to quit over this. After hundreds of votes, its 7%. They just believe that they are far more representative and significant than they are. One was even claiming they pay ZOS more money!! They believe that if they scream loud enough, ZOS has to do what they say, im here to counter balance that.

7% of the income has 7% of the sway, that is all. Others would step up and do guides if those doing them left (I have done a few in my time, not many, but I would do more if people needed help), they would probably be less elitist too. Elloa dose not come across as hard-core or elitist, she does guides. Heck Dulfy does guides (maybe not ESO anymore) and covers so many games, that she can not be hard-core in any of them.

Hard-core players in themselves are not inherently bad, this elitist im more important crap is.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Just look at the polls from all of this fuss that has happened.

lol that people think these polls hold any water.

JKorr · December 2014

pppontus wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Etori wrote: »

Oh hey! Stuff that hasn't been talked about before!

I would imagine there are far more casual gamers than power gamers. When politicians try and get as many votes as possible who do they target? The largest demographic (ie not the top 1%)

Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money and usually politicians tend to listen to the people that finance their campaigns, especially in countries like the US.

Edit: Oh and people who are casual gamers(and aren't VR14) don't care about being as powerful as raiders and would proly welcome the free CP points they don't even deserve, so I don't see how giving to each it's own would make people unhappy.

Been playing since beta/early access. Bought the Imperial edition. Still playing, still have an active account.

Pray tell, unless the people who are VR14 have been sending extra money to Zenimax out of the goodness of their hearts, how exactly have those players "given them the most money"? Did the VR14 players pick a special "get charged more money" subscription? Everyone has been playing the same amount of time.

I have 8 characters on the live server, 3 on the pts. I haven't been rushing the content or grinding because I wanna be uber leet powerful for "raids" or in pvp. I still don't have any characters over vr 5.

Now, who will Zenimax end up getting more money from? The vr14 players who rushed the content and did the experience grind to get where they are, or the players like me who haven't rushed the content and will keep playing longer to make it to vr 14/whatever the champion rank equivalent will be?

I guess, according to your standards, I'm a casual player, even though I was in the private beta, and have been playing since early access. I plan to continue giving Zenimax money as long as I'm enjoying the game. Given all the outraged threads about this, I might be giving them money longer than the vr14 players who are planning to cancel their subs.

They gain more money from them because hardcore players generally inspire more players to become hardcore players and stick with the game, where they would have normally quit instead. Also hardcore players are the ones who find out all the stuff about game mechanics, trial mechanics, strategies etc. that all the rest of the players will be using, as well as that they market the game through youtube videos, streams etc.

Basically, all the noobs hate the hardcore players ("elitists") but unknowingly they still live off of them by using their builds and strategies. Which if they weren't made public knowledge would cause most casuals to quit at VR14 (as I've already seen a million times where people quit because they can't find a PUG to complete AA/HR).

The "hardcore" players who are complaining about this and planning to unsub over it? Those "hardcore" players? If they quit, they aren't paying anymore.

Also you realize that the "noobs" aren't the ones who are going to worry about their builds. The "casual" players will keep playing as long as they're having fun and enjoying themselves. Constant grinding for gear and experience is more of a job than fun. People who are playing with the mindset of enjoying themselves and having fun aren't going to be all that concerned about it.

I've been to Craglorn to pick up crafting stuff for guildmates. I haven't tried to fight anything there. I don't enjoy pvp, so I haven't been to Cyrodiil. Haven't actually noticed a lack of anything, so.... whatever. Haven't quit over anything yet either, but ymmv. [edit for spelling error]

Guppet · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Just look at the polls from all of this fuss that has happened.

lol that people think these polls hold any water.

They disprove that the majority here will quit, so yes they do. I'm guessing you were one of that 7%, who not winning the polls claim its not what the people want.

Polls do give a clear indication of what the participants want. You cant poll those that don't participate.

You do know that polls are used for the most important things in real life to ensure equal representation for important decisions, like for example who will be president or prime minister.

Saying the polls hold no water, is just like saying the people did not want Obama, they wanted this other guy, Nope the voters voted for what they wanted to vote for.

The only issue people can ever have with polls is if they don't give the right options or are biased, mine (the series ones) were neither.

Guess it disproves your point though, so you'll just ignore it. There are no tanks in Bagdad!

LtCrunch · December 2014

Plans change. Giving players with higher level VR characters more champion points right now with the vet ranks and everything that comes along with them(increased stats, higher softcaps, more powerful gear) would be a bad thing. It would only extend the power gap between vet ranks that already exists.

I fully expect them to properly compensate players with higher level VR characters once phase 4 of the champion system comes and they remove vet ranks. Sadly most people are too short-sighted to think about this. There's a reason these people are game designers people.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

I'm guessing you were one of that 7%, who not winning the polls claim its not what the people want.

No, what i am is one of those players who belongs to a ZoS summit guild that has been in constant contact with ZoS with monthly reports, meetings and other forums of communication. I have watched 95% of this guilds membership dwindle cause of poor decisions like this 30cp cap constantly being made. I havent quit yet. My subscription hasn't been canceled. I like the game. I want whats best for it and this move for 30cp is NOT what is best for this game. Its best for making a short money grab and that is it.

Inklings · December 2014

Brandalf wrote: »

Plans change. Giving players with higher level VR characters more champion points right now with the vet ranks and everything that comes along with them(increased stats, higher softcaps, more powerful gear) would be a bad thing. It would only extend the power gap between vet ranks that already exists.

I fully expect them to properly compensate players with higher level VR characters once phase 4 of the champion system comes and they remove vet ranks. Sadly most people are too short-sighted to think about this. There's a reason these people are game designers people.

That gap is going to be gone after the first week of this patch going live. Hardcore players will grind so fast that this 30cp cap for all wont mean jack after the first week. Don't let them fool you, it has nothing to do with leveling the playing field. Is about making people who have unsubbed believe they will be put back on an even playing field. Its a money grab. Nothing more.

As for compensating players in phase 4 you should go read the german forums. they have already stated over there that is not the case, and there is ZERO plans to do so. Now that doenst mean things wont change but we can only go off of the information they are giving us now and it doenst look like that is going to happen.

Guppet · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm guessing you were one of that 7%, who not winning the polls claim its not what the people want.

No, what i am is one of those players who belongs to a ZoS summit guild that has been in constant contact with ZoS with monthly reports, meetings and other forums of communication. I have watched 95% of this guilds membership dwindle cause of poor decisions like this 30cp cap constantly being made. I havent quit yet. My subscription hasn't been canceled. I like the game. I want whats best for it and this move for 30cp is NOT what is best for this game. Its best for making a short money grab and that is it.

So again, you can only speak for your guild, assuming ever last one of them agrees with you (doubtful). Also here you go again thinking you are more important. Guess what ZOS will do if you/your guild quit? They will replace you/your guild with someone else.

The polls show what those polled say, you show what you say. there were more people taking part in the poll, you have 1 vote just like everyone else.

Inklings · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm guessing you were one of that 7%, who not winning the polls claim its not what the people want.

No, what i am is one of those players who belongs to a ZoS summit guild that has been in constant contact with ZoS with monthly reports, meetings and other forums of communication. I have watched 95% of this guilds membership dwindle cause of poor decisions like this 30cp cap constantly being made. I havent quit yet. My subscription hasn't been canceled. I like the game. I want whats best for it and this move for 30cp is NOT what is best for this game. Its best for making a short money grab and that is it.

So again, you can only speak for your guild, assuming ever last one of them agrees with you (doubtful). Also here you go again thinking you are more important. Guess what ZOS will do if you/your guild quit? They will replace you/your guild with someone else.

The polls show what those polled say, you show what you say. there were more people taking part in the poll, you have 1 vote just like everyone else.

No i dont only speak for one guild. I'm seeing this reaction from a lot of the main guilds in ESO. Most of these people don't come to these forums. We don't need to. We can go to ZoS directly with reports. Hell, for months i couldn't even post to these forums and finally got that fixed today. Why did i never get that access? I didn't need too.

When you can click any option, even if you don't fit the parameters that you voted for, the poll means nothing. Sorry but these polls really do hold no water.

Guppet · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm guessing you were one of that 7%, who not winning the polls claim its not what the people want.

No, what i am is one of those players who belongs to a ZoS summit guild that has been in constant contact with ZoS with monthly reports, meetings and other forums of communication. I have watched 95% of this guilds membership dwindle cause of poor decisions like this 30cp cap constantly being made. I havent quit yet. My subscription hasn't been canceled. I like the game. I want whats best for it and this move for 30cp is NOT what is best for this game. Its best for making a short money grab and that is it.

So again, you can only speak for your guild, assuming ever last one of them agrees with you (doubtful). Also here you go again thinking you are more important. Guess what ZOS will do if you/your guild quit? They will replace you/your guild with someone else.

The polls show what those polled say, you show what you say. there were more people taking part in the poll, you have 1 vote just like everyone else.

No i dont only speak for one guild. I'm seeing this reaction from a lot of the main guilds in ESO. Most of these people don't come to these forums. We don't need to. We can go to ZoS directly with reports. Hell, for months i couldn't even post to these forums and finally got that fixed today. Why did i never get that access? I didn't need too.

When you can click any option, even if you don't fit the parameters that you voted for, the poll means nothing. Sorry but these polls really do hold no water.

If you speak for multiple guilds that must have been voted on. So votes do matter

if it was not voted on no one agrees that you speak for them!

Averya_Teira · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Jice wrote: »

Imagine you bought World of Warcraft in 2008. Then Blizzard came in 1 year later and released an expansion because they wanted to change content and didn't want you to have an advantage over new players who bought the game just to play that expansion...

..oh wait, stuff like this happens in MMO's all the time. If every time a game updated everyone was just handed everything they needed to be exactly as strong as they were before what would be the point of adding new content at all?
.

That is not the point at all. Look at my sig for the point.

They're not honoring their engagement, end of story.

Ok, I will look at your sig fo the point:

IT CLEARLY STATES THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE CAP IS YET.

Guess what, the cap is 30.

Taking the part that helps your argument and leaving out what doesn't... Nice work.

Averya_Teira · December 2014

I55UE5 wrote: »

If ZoS tracked XP for the people that have "invested" most in this game, you would have over 75% of your champions points earned on patch day.

You would then make a new post about how there is not enough progression and that you NEED more things and ZoS must obey your needs right this second or the game is going to fall apart and all employees will be stricken with brain cancer.

Find another hobby, this is quite sad.

That is absolutely not true, try some math next time.. There are 3600 points. Even to get 10% of that, you need to gain non stop XP for 1440 hours. That's 60 full days just sayin'...

So.... Think before posting.....

pppontus · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

Hardcore players are the minority that is driving the game.

They are doing videos, podcasts, streams, writting blogs, creating fansites. They are pushing the game forward, and keeping the community and competition up. If you think they are unimportant, you have serious lack of knowledge about how the community works. Many times, involvement and enthusiasm of hardcore player goes way beyond his 15 bucks subscription (exceptions may exist and do exist).

Community without leaders will fall apart. If you think that casual player doing fishing on Auridon is the community wise same important person as guildmaster of the best Daggerfall Covenant raiding guild ( @xMovingTarget happens to be that person), or member of the best EP EU raiding guild ( @magnusnet happens to be the one) , you are wrong.

Exactly this. And the funniest thing is that almost every guild and eventually PUG that go on to complete these raids do so owing something to those community leaders whether it is guides, builds or just simple questions and tactics in certain fights, there is always something. And it is preposterous to think, at the current state of the game, that anyone else would fill those positions if the current community leaders left the game. The hardcore population of the game is already dropping towards non-existant, as proven by the fact that (in EU) it was just a week or two ago that the 100th time was posted on Vet DSA, and it hasn't yet even on SO. The reason so few groups can complete the content at the moment, is not because it's too hard .. but because the capable population is disappearing. If ZOS wants an MMO where people wander around Belkarth aimlessly for an eternity after finishing Cadwell.. well, they are making good progress.

Welka · December 2014

And people wonder why ZOS is reluctant to reply to posts or make statements.
9 pages of "such a person said this then, but this person said that after".

ZOS doesn't owe us anything. Like the game? Play it. Don't like it? Bye bye

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

pppontus · December 2014

Welka wrote: »

And people wonder why ZOS is reluctant to reply to posts or make statements.
9 pages of "such a person said this then, but this person said that after".

ZOS doesn't owe us anything. Like the game? Play it. Don't like it? Bye bye

True. We'll see, it would be funny if ZOS resets trial leaderboards in 1.6 and there is no v14s around any more

Elsonso · December 2014

I55UE5 wrote: »

If ZoS tracked XP for the people that have "invested" most in this game, you would have over 75% of your champions points earned on patch day

I think that is untrue.

While I think they were originally thinking that 1 earned XP prior to Champion System would be the same as 1 earned XP after Champion System, they were also saying that there would be a cap. That cap allows them to trim off the top players if they want.

Under the new Champion System v2, a player earns somewhere around 1 CP for every 400,000 XP. Naturally, they have not released this XP number. It is based on ESO Live estimates of 4 hours per CP plus how long it takes their QA team to gain 1 Veteran Rank (10 hours).

This puts a person with 70 million veteran XP in the 175 CP range. I am certainly hoping that there are no Veteran Rank 70 characters, by today's accounting, running around, but I am willing to accept the possibility.

The 175 CP from this is 5% of the total possible CP in Champion System 2.0.

Now, the one flaw with Champion System is that 3600 CP is not the number we need to be looking at. 3600 CP is the maximum allowed CP, and it is the number that maxes out all the benefits of the system. However, there is a much lower number that reflects the point at which the system may no longer be beneficial to participate in.

At 1080 CP, you will unlock all 72 passives in the system. In addition to that, at 1080 CP you can have 30 CP in every passive star that you can spend CP on. According to ESO Live, the first dozen give you the biggest impact. We can surmise that by the time 30 points are put in any Star that the return may not be beneficial enough to justify earning the point. It may well be that people play for 1080 and ignore the system after that.

Now, that 175 CP does get you to 16% of the amount needed to unlock all of the passives.

pppontus · December 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I55UE5 wrote: »

If ZoS tracked XP for the people that have "invested" most in this game, you would have over 75% of your champions points earned on patch day

I think that is untrue.

While I think they were originally thinking that 1 earned XP prior to Champion System would be the same as 1 earned XP after Champion System, they were also saying that there would be a cap. That cap allows them to trim off the top players if they want.

Under the new Champion System v2, a player earns somewhere around 1 CP for every 400,000 XP. Naturally, they have not released this XP number. It is based on ESO Live estimates of 4 hours per CP plus how long it takes their QA team to gain 1 Veteran Rank (10 hours).

This puts a person with 70 million veteran XP in the 175 CP range. I am certainly hoping that there are no Veteran Rank 70 characters, by today's accounting, running around, but I am willing to accept the possibility.

The 175 CP from this is 5% of the total possible CP in Champion System 2.0.

Now, the one flaw with Champion System is that 3600 CP is not the number we need to be looking at. 3600 CP is the maximum allowed CP, and it is the number that maxes out all the benefits of the system. However, there is a much lower number that reflects the point at which the system may no longer be beneficial to participate in.

At 1080 CP, you will unlock all 72 passives in the system. In addition to that, at 1080 CP you can have 30 CP in every passive star that you can spend CP on. According to ESO Live, the first dozen give you the biggest impact. We can surmise that by the time 30 points are put in any Star that the return may not be beneficial enough to justify earning the point. It may well be that people play for 1080 and ignore the system after that.

Now, that 175 CP does get you to 16% of the amount needed to unlock all of the passives.

Add to that, the fact that no one here is asking to receive all of their XP directly converted. I have 4 VR14s and a VR3, I never expected to get all of that XP.. I would have been perfectly happy with having only my first character XP converted.. or whatever.. just something.

Not the same as if I started playing one day before the patch is released to live.

TehMagnus · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

My entire point is the "current status of things" is not the future. You are mad about a potential situation. If/when the current situation is the specific future you speak of I will support your angered opinion fully.

It won't be my opinion but I will support yours.

Except if we wait till then, it will be too late to change anything. Now is the time to act. Not when things have been set in stone and are impossible to change just like they did with undaunted.

Lionxoft · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

More people to play/hang out with and create potentially long lasting relationships is a bad thing? Cash grab? Sure. A bad one? Nope.

Just want to point out another thing... By that definition every piece of new content would be considered a cash grab :P

What about the players, guildies and more important friends we are losing over this? You seem to totally ignore the fact that this is causing people to quite as well. Bringing people back who have have been flaky in renewing subscriptions is not a good thing when it causing the loss of loyal hardcore players. If you can't keep those players happy you're never going to have a healthy, stable population.

Wait... People are really quitting over this miniscule difference? You people need to figure out why you are playing this game. Is it to become max level immediately and have everything on your character immediately? Do you expect raid gear to be deposited into your bank immediately after the patch adding the next trial is pushed to live server?

Come on people. It's an alternate advancement system and not an already advanced system. Half of the joy is earning your points. Hell, I'd say even more than that. Giving you something to reach for is the entire objective of the system! You're lucky they are shared and ZOS doesn't make you earn them on each character.