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Welcome to TESO have a nice an beautifull day 8)
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While it can be seen as "crying" or "whining" the OP has a valid argument and has simply pointed out that we were told by ZOS to continue progressing our characters and that our experience (even after VR14) was being recorded and would be converted. The fact of the matter is it wasn't and that statement was never true.
Many people chose to keep advancing their VR14 characters based on that statement and had they known that there would be zero compensation for their actions and time beyond VR14 they (as any sane person would) would have held off on completing all of the content.
Is that really the case?
First, the statement may have been true at the time it was made. ZOS have made it clear that it was during their testing of the new system that they realised they needed to make some changes to their original proposals.
Second, although I confess that I am not at VR level and am therefore only going on what I read, rather than being influenced by the direct effects of these changes on me, which may or may not be a good thing in itself, it seems to me that the criticisms of the changes make no allowance for the fact that the VR ranks are not yet being dropped, nor are players losing the benefits those ranks have accrued.
It seems to me that some players are upset because they won't have beaten the Champion system the moment it's introduced based on their playing of the game before its introduction.
I tend to take a more relaxed view of these things, having long held the belief that people are best served by not reading developers' comments or, indeed, patch notes, but rather by simply playing the game and seeing for themselves how the evolution of the game works out for them.
No-one yet knows how the new system will pan out in the coming months, so we have the simple choice of either QQing now based on what we think and fear it will be, suspending play until we know what it will be, or playing on regardless with a view to QQing later if it turns out badly.6 -
Kraen✭✭✭If you are not at VR yet, you kinda cant understand to the issue. Veteran Ranks are being dropped as well, and the fact that its not happening in 1.6 doesnt change anything.
We lose a progression that we made. ZOS said we are going to get a compensation for that progression. Turns out that we are getting nothing.
Do you understand now? You play, you gain something via many hours of gameplay, then you lose it by decision of developer who before said you wont and encouraged you to spend your time to get things that hes taking away from you now.Edited by Kraen on December 23, 2014 9:32PMFinneas of Baby Face Bananas
Free to Play? No, thx.8 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No,
You play, you potentially gain something that you feel you deserve based on some comment from before the system was even created. Then you potentially lose what you feel you deserved sometime in the future and you are mad about it in the present.
This really feels like an inception sequel.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.12 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭You will be compensated for your veteran ranks when they are taken from you. You will still be rank 14+ with 30cp to spend. Get a grip on reality. Seriously.10 -
Kraen✭✭✭
Veteran Ranks are going away as well, just not in 1.6 yet. Get your facts together. In german customer support forum, the community manager said that there are no plans for VR compensation at all.You will be compensated for your veteran ranks when they are taken from you. You will still be rank 14+ with 30cp to spend. Get a grip on reality. Seriously.
Actually, no. Atm, I am not speaking about Champion Points we were told we´ll be getting for extra XP. I am speaking about Veteran Ranks - We will lose them as well without any compensation, just not in 1.6 yet.No,
You play, you potentially gain something that you feel you deserve based on some comment from before the system was even created. Then you potentially lose what you feel you deserved sometime in the future and you are mad about it in the present.
This really feels like an inception sequel.
That doesnt change a thing on the fact that we are losing it was well, and there was nothing "potential" about VRs.
Majority of "complaining players" are asking for VR compensation, at least. Because that is the thing we are clearly losing, even without all that "post VR 14 XP tracking".
Edited by Kraen on December 23, 2014 9:44PMFinneas of Baby Face Bananas
Free to Play? No, thx.6 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭You type so fast your brain can't keep up.
We know that.Veteran Ranks are going away as well, just not in 1.6 yet. Get your facts together.You will be compensated for your veteran ranks when they are taken from you. You will still be rank 14+ with 30cp to spend. Get a grip on reality. Seriously.4 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ok...
you have absolutely no idea what will happen in 1.6 and now you are complaining about something that is up in the air even to the developers?
They specifically said they want to see how to champ system plays out first to see how to transition vet ranks.
There is zero evidence that you will 'lose' anything, and even if you are 'estimating' your frame of reference is so far off that it has no bearing on reality.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.8 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭@Tandor you state that players aren't losing the benefits those ranks have accrued and currently you are correct. What players are losing is the experience accrued post VR14.
Additionally, you are failing to consider that many players (even casual such as myself) have been playing on a VR14 for months with nothing now to show for it. Also, many players leveled alts to VR14 with no intention of actively playing them but rather as a means to gain CS points as ZoS stated it would. Therefore to them, that alt holds no benefit regardless of its rank.
Finally, the German mod clearly stated that additional CS points will not be awarded when vet levels are removed; that is not part of the plan. Tell me then, if the champion system is the future progression system for our characters, and our vet exp doesn't count towards it, what will our vet xp count for?
I wouldn't be surprised if there already is a achievement pet in the works for "elder" players. There, enjoy your "reward".8 -
Kraen✭✭✭You will be compensated for your veteran ranks when they are taken from you. You will still be rank 14+ with 30cp to spend. Get a grip on reality. Seriously.xMovingTarget wrote: »Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?
ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.
German Customer support forum, message from community manager.
I recommend to you to read whole topic. More interesting info inside.Edited by Kraen on December 23, 2014 9:48PMFinneas of Baby Face Bananas
Free to Play? No, thx.4 -
HeX7✭✭✭While it can be seen as "crying" or "whining" the OP has a valid argument and has simply pointed out that we were told by ZOS to continue progressing our characters and that our experience (even after VR14) was being recorded and would be converted. The fact of the matter is it wasn't and that statement was never true.
Many people chose to keep advancing their VR14 characters based on that statement and had they known that there would be zero compensation for their actions and time beyond VR14 they (as any sane person would) would have held off on completing all of the content.
Is that really the case?
First, the statement may have been true at the time it was made. ZOS have made it clear that it was during their testing of the new system that they realised they needed to make some changes to their original proposals.
Second, although I confess that I am not at VR level and am therefore only going on what I read, rather than being influenced by the direct effects of these changes on me, which may or may not be a good thing in itself, it seems to me that the criticisms of the changes make no allowance for the fact that the VR ranks are not yet being dropped, nor are players losing the benefits those ranks have accrued.
It seems to me that some players are upset because they won't have beaten the Champion system the moment it's introduced based on their playing of the game before its introduction.
I tend to take a more relaxed view of these things, having long held the belief that people are best served by not reading developers' comments or, indeed, patch notes, but rather by simply playing the game and seeing for themselves how the evolution of the game works out for them.
No-one yet knows how the new system will pan out in the coming months, so we have the simple choice of either QQing now based on what we think and fear it will be, suspending play until we know what it will be, or playing on regardless with a view to QQing later if it turns out badly.
These are all good points and I'm sure from reading you are still able to grasp the situation as many have. But you'll see in the original post (which is in the OPs post and was posted by @Zos_mariaAliprando) It even goes as far as to say they will reward points "right away based on exp you have earned up to a cap" 30 is not a cap. Its just what you get. You don't have to do any work to get that 30.Edited by HeX7 on December 23, 2014 9:49PM1 -
Kraen✭✭✭Doublepost
Edited by Kraen on December 23, 2014 9:47PMFinneas of Baby Face Bananas
Free to Play? No, thx.1 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Kai Schober has confirmed that they have NO plans to give more champ points to higher vet rank characters. It's in the dev tracker, and Google translate helped me out:Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion, correct?
ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written, says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start-Champion points for existing players.
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content, are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
What exactly makes you think this statement is not utter nonsense? I know of several people who have paid more money than I have by pre-ordering the physical Imperial edition, paying a subscription since release while not having reached VR14 yet.Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money
Edited by Lava_Croft on December 23, 2014 9:59PM5 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?
ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.
German Customer support forum, message from community manager.
That doesn't mean anything. If you are at least rank 1, you have probably completed most of the PvE content barring silver and gold. They are giving you some cp to compensate for that and nothing more. You're making assumptions based on text from someone who isn't even a developer.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are not at VR yet, you kinda cant understand to the issue. Veteran Ranks are being dropped as well, and the fact that its not happening in 1.6 doesnt change anything.
We lose a progression that we made. ZOS said we are going to get a compensation for that progression. Turns out that we are getting nothing.
Do you understand now? You play, you gain something via many hours of gameplay, then you lose it by decision of developer who before said you wont and encouraged you to spend your time to get things that hes taking away from you now.
I understand enough to know that you cannot currently judge how "VR only" when adjusted to "CP plus VR" will eventually compare to "CP only".
The trouble is you guys don't want to wait until the system is finished to judge it, you want to pre-judge it now. That would be fine, except for the fact that you haven't got a clue what it will be like when it is finished. It's a work in progress.
5 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭People really need to read through the thread and understand the current status of things before they start slinging wild accusations that people are stupid or don't know what they are talking about.1
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yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My entire point is the "current status of things" is not the future. You are mad about a potential situation. If/when the current situation is the specific future you speak of I will support your angered opinion fully.
It won't be my opinion but I will support yours.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.4 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭People really need to read through the thread and understand the current status of things before they start slinging wild accusations that people are stupid or don't know what they are talking about.
It really does't matter what the rest of the thread says. You will still be rank 14+. If you actually think that they are just going to erase your veteran ranks with no compensation, you're blinded by the gigantic tin foil hat that has fallen over your eyes. Who says they even intend on using CP to compensate veteran ranks when they go away? It would be far easier to just roll your veteran ranks into a level cap increase anyway.5 -
Hazadus76✭✭✭I am disappointed in ZOS again. This is my first MMO and I am not accustomed playing such a bug laden game with questionable community management. Their responses have just created more questions. I wonder when this 30cp decision was made, did they make attempts to anticipate the subscribers response?Edited by Hazadus76 on December 23, 2014 10:25PM3 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am disappointed in ZOS again. This is my first MMO and I am not accustomed playing such a bug laden game with questionable community management. Their responses have just created more questions. I wonder when this 30cp decision was made, did they make attempts to anticipate the subscribers response?
Here's the full story. (exclusive)
A few weeks ago the community managers went bowling and decided that the lowest score would decide for the amount of Champion Points that the players would receive.
Long story short, @ZOS_JasonLeavey only reached 30, so that's how much we get.Wololo.9 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭*shrug*
I'll eventually get high Champion points....whining about when I get it is pointless, as all the characters I played before hand i did for a specific reason not related to Champion Points..so i'm not really losing anything.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
spryler✭✭✭You don't know that though. You are assuming that.
It's possible that finishing SO now gives you 100k xp because they said that a champion point is about an HOUR OF GAMEPLAY.
There are SO MANY variables that NOONE on these forums knows its absolutely ridiculous the amount of emotion being put forward already on something that doesn't even exist yet.
Well, I have talked about this a million times. XP from Trials can by design never be balanced unless they go for XP per time spent (which I would even be fine with, I don't care about having the most of anything.. I only want to stay competetive) because of the simple reason that they are hard. Some people finish SO in 40 minutes, we take 1,5 hours.. and others will not complete it in months to come. So either the first group gets gazillions of XP, or the last group don't get any XP whatsoever.. you understand my point?
ZOS says "you can continue to do what you like and you will gain XP", they are lying.. just like they lied about tracking XP. It should be apparent to everyone by now, they lie.
So ZOS is lying because a raid group that wipes on Mantikora all night gets less xp that a raid group that finishes the dungeons - LOL!
OMG that is hilarious. I mean people have some legitimate (if exaggerated) complaints, but that one is ridiculous.1 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »This, has nobody played WOW or other MMO?
You are not awarded for previous effort then level cap is increased or you get other stuff to build up.
You, sir, should get your facts together.
In WoW, they dont promise that they will keep tracking your progression towards te new expansion levels.
In this case, we were promised by the chief of Champion System development that our progression will be tracked, that we will be rewarded for it, and we were encounraged to keep playing our already maxed chars. That is the difference.
..and in 1.7 (or phase 4 when vet ranks are removed) you will be.
This 30 points has nothing to do with that compensation.
Point me to the text where it does.
Do a minute of research, it's a few threads already .the German dev said we all get 30 CP, nothing more. " their plans have changed" I am on my phone cannot really link to it, but it's easy to find, it's in the dev tracker, just Google translate it.2 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You don't know that though. You are assuming that.
It's possible that finishing SO now gives you 100k xp because they said that a champion point is about an HOUR OF GAMEPLAY.
There are SO MANY variables that NOONE on these forums knows its absolutely ridiculous the amount of emotion being put forward already on something that doesn't even exist yet.
Well, I have talked about this a million times. XP from Trials can by design never be balanced unless they go for XP per time spent (which I would even be fine with, I don't care about having the most of anything.. I only want to stay competetive) because of the simple reason that they are hard. Some people finish SO in 40 minutes, we take 1,5 hours.. and others will not complete it in months to come. So either the first group gets gazillions of XP, or the last group don't get any XP whatsoever.. you understand my point?
ZOS says "you can continue to do what you like and you will gain XP", they are lying.. just like they lied about tracking XP. It should be apparent to everyone by now, they lie.
So ZOS is lying because a raid group that wipes on Mantikora all night gets less xp that a raid group that finishes the dungeons - LOL!
OMG that is hilarious. I mean people have some legitimate (if exaggerated) complaints, but that one is ridiculous.
FYI, it took my guild weeks and maybe hundreds of wipes to take down the Mantikora and the Serpent. Try harder.
Wololo.1 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭After looking over the German thread, I think someone here is correct. Z will be rewarding some Vets with a wolfhound or something. Possibly. Or something else that won't unbalance the game in their view."Billions upon Billions of Stars"3 -
spryler✭✭✭You don't know that though. You are assuming that.
It's possible that finishing SO now gives you 100k xp because they said that a champion point is about an HOUR OF GAMEPLAY.
There are SO MANY variables that NOONE on these forums knows its absolutely ridiculous the amount of emotion being put forward already on something that doesn't even exist yet.
Well, I have talked about this a million times. XP from Trials can by design never be balanced unless they go for XP per time spent (which I would even be fine with, I don't care about having the most of anything.. I only want to stay competetive) because of the simple reason that they are hard. Some people finish SO in 40 minutes, we take 1,5 hours.. and others will not complete it in months to come. So either the first group gets gazillions of XP, or the last group don't get any XP whatsoever.. you understand my point?
ZOS says "you can continue to do what you like and you will gain XP", they are lying.. just like they lied about tracking XP. It should be apparent to everyone by now, they lie.
So ZOS is lying because a raid group that wipes on Mantikora all night gets less xp that a raid group that finishes the dungeons - LOL!
OMG that is hilarious. I mean people have some legitimate (if exaggerated) complaints, but that one is ridiculous.
FYI, it took my guild weeks and maybe hundreds of wipes to take down the Mantikora and the Serpent. Try harder.
Play how you want = give me xp for wiping! LOL1 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭After looking over the German thread, I think someone here is correct. Z will be rewarding some Vets with a wolfhound or something. Possibly. Or something else that won't unbalance the game in their view.
But... their own description of the champion system is that the more points you have the less difference each points makes... If they gave the 30 CP + 40 other CP to VR14 who played a lot... what ****ing difference does it make lol... Shouldn't imbalance anything, from their own words...
Edited by Averya_Teira on December 23, 2014 10:53PM5 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Averya_Teira wrote: »After looking over the German thread, I think someone here is correct. Z will be rewarding some Vets with a wolfhound or something. Possibly. Or something else that won't unbalance the game in their view.
But... their own description of the champion system is that the more points you have the less difference each points makes... If they gave the 30 CP + 40 other CP to VR14 who played a lot... what ****ing difference does it make lol... Shouldn't imbalance anything, from their own words...
It's the *Mind of Z*
"Billions upon Billions of Stars"1 -
While I have to agree with your post, I'd like to add something to the conversation. There's several MMORPG out there which have adjusted the game to make the whole playing field even during certain times. Each one of these games ended up losing quite a few players over it, too. I think it's an extraordinarily bad idea creating a level playing field with 30 CP regardless of time spent. I will keep playing ESO, though - because I do enjoy a lot of other aspects of the game and I like everything else I've heard about 1.6. But, I am very disappointed with the decision to hand out 30 CP regardless of time spent. I've been playing one character since day 1 and I don't like the idea of being handed out the same amount of cookies as someone who just hit VR1, personally.3
