1.6 Ultimate Generation - Too Slow?
jrgray93
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Ultimate Generation – Eric Wrobel
Right now on live, Ultimate generation is really confusing, because there are a lot of systems like blocking, dodging, damaging, and healing which all generate ultimate. It’s really confusing for players, its confusing for designers, and it’s creating a huge disparity in the amount of ultimate that is generated. Someone who is playing a tanky, defensive, character is only generating a small amount of ultimate while people with fast attacking and high Critical Strike are generating a huge amount. What we have done to reduce the inequality there is change the system to a flat generation rate. Now whenever you attack, you will gain a buff that gives you 3 Ultimate per second for 3 seconds. We settled on that number using an average character who was performing one ability (with light attack weave) per second with an average critical strike rating as a normalizing benchmark which put Ultimate generation at a rate we were happy with.
Now healing players, as a way to get rid of the problem where players would spam heals out of combat to build Ultimate while out of combat, only get the buff when they heal someone who also has the buff by doing damage with a light or heavy attack. This creates a better system where you more naturally do the things that you would naturally be doing in combat and get adequately rewarded for it. With Ultimate, you no longer need to stack as much critical strike rating as possible to get ultimate. Critical is still really useful for damage, but it’s not required for Ultimate generation.
I'm all for normalizing ultimate generation. As long as I've played, I still can't tell you how Templars compare to other classes for ultimate generation, because the whole system seems to be a mess. I just see this rate as being incredibly slow.
IIRC, my ultimates currently cost about 70 for Empowering Sweep and about 280 for Nova. That's just two of many I use, for the sake of argument. At this rate, I would be able to use Empowering Sweep every 24 seconds or so, which is enough to fill an entire encounter in PVP. That's just the cheap ultimate. Nova would take a minute and a half to be ready (while we're on that subject, why does this still cost so much more than the DK standard?).
Like I said, I would love to see ultimates balanced class-to-class, but having too little production just sounds like it could make things less interesting, and some spells entirely not worth using.
So will this be the only way to generate ultimate after 1.6, or is it just part of many tweaks? I assume passives that generate more ultimate will remain unchanged?
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job
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AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now whenever you attack, you will gain a buff that gives you 3 Ultimate per second for 3 seconds.
AFAIK it's 3 Ultimate per second for 8 seconds.Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AshySamurai wrote: »Now whenever you attack, you will gain a buff that gives you 3 Ultimate per second for 3 seconds.
AFAIK it's 3 Ultimate per second for 8 seconds.
Well, the important part isn't how long it lasts, but rather how much it generates per second. It will constantly refresh so long as you remain in combat.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks, but none of them are addressing the specific aspect of it that I did, which is that the number itself is too low. They seem to be just complaining about it in general or asking about other details.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.13 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Le sigh, ZoS has already answered this in another one of the 420 threads about this very topic. NO, Light/Heavy attacks or Healing a target who did so every 8 seconds will not be the only way to generate Ultimate come 1.6.1 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
I see it more as a huge nerf to ultimates all-around. As it stands, I could generate plenty of ultimate in a short period of time while fighting multiple enemies, mostly from Puncturing Sweep. This went a long way to helping make me capable of tanking because I could keep Empowering Sweep up for a greater amount of time.
I also used Empowering Sweep in PVP because I was almost guaranteed a chance to use it at least once in every encounter, providing decent burst damage and much needed damage reduction. With ultimate generation this low, a lot of my play style will be drastically changed, maybe to the point where I will switch from melee to ranged entirely.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job2 -
Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks, but none of them are addressing the specific aspect of it that I did, which is that the number itself is too low. They seem to be just complaining about it in general or asking about other details.
You still could post your question there instead of opening another thread with a generic title. Maybe change your title atleast.
(well just a suggestion, you of course do what you want!
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Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My empowering sweep Templar build just got a lot squishier. :'(
However, I gladly pay this price to combat the impulse + batswarm mobs.Edited by Sallington on December 22, 2014 3:07PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
I see it more as a huge nerf to ultimates all-around. As it stands, I could generate plenty of ultimate in a short period of time while fighting multiple enemies, mostly from Puncturing Sweep. This went a long way to helping make me capable of tanking because I could keep Empowering Sweep up for a greater amount of time.
I also used Empowering Sweep in PVP because I was almost guaranteed a chance to use it at least once in every encounter, providing decent burst damage and much needed damage reduction. With ultimate generation this low, a lot of my play style will be drastically changed, maybe to the point where I will switch from melee to ranged entirely.
Well my ult regen time is almost doubled so I feel ya.
But now only thing unskilled people have to do is auto attack to get their ults up so they'll feel like it's a major improvement since they'll get ults up faster which is why I say it's a buff to them and a nerf to good players. This is also going to screw up some PVE tactics where it was necessary to regen ultimate between two phases of a boss's attack.Edited by TehMagnus on December 22, 2014 2:58PM4 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes because Tanks in PvE are "unskilled" because we're lucky if we can drop ONE Ultimate per Boss fight. I can guarantee the change has NOTHING to do with unskilled players whining that they can't drop Ultimates as much as others do. The fact that some players can roll Ultimates continuously under the right circumstance while others (Tanks specifically) can hardly drop them at all is likely the reason for the change, and it's a good change. You might actually see AA/HR take 10 whole minutes instead of 9, the horror.Well my ult regen time is almost doubled so I feel ya.
But now only thing unskilled people have to do is auto attack to get their ults up so they'll feel like it's a major improvement since they'll get ults up faster which is why I say it's a buff to them and a nerf to good players. This is also going to screw up some PVE tactics where it was necessary to regen ultimate between two phases of a boss's attack.4 -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes because Tanks in PvE are "unskilled" because we're lucky if we can drop ONE Ultimate per Boss fight. I can guarantee the change has NOTHING to do with unskilled players whining that they can't drop Ultimates as much as others do. The fact that some players can roll Ultimates continuously under the right circumstance while others (Tanks specifically) can hardly drop them at all is likely the reason for the change, and it's a good change. You might actually see AA/HR take 10 whole minutes instead of 9, the horror.Well my ult regen time is almost doubled so I feel ya.
But now only thing unskilled people have to do is auto attack to get their ults up so they'll feel like it's a major improvement since they'll get ults up faster which is why I say it's a buff to them and a nerf to good players. This is also going to screw up some PVE tactics where it was necessary to regen ultimate between two phases of a boss's attack.
My pve tank can drop 3 ults on a long fight.- Mojican3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Spawning impulse or even healing spring out of combat don't require much skill.So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
Yes AoE is the fastest way to gain ultimate, single target hardly generate it.
This probably depend on class but still.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
morvegil✭✭✭✭This is good, I never rely on Ultimates anywaysLo'ke
Nord Vampire
Nightblade
Shield+BOW
Daggerfall CovenantBandit KingBridge Bandits Guild2 -
Sublime✭✭✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
This is true, but considering the huge gap between good and bad players at the moment, this is a plus point for me. In the end good players will still be better, but worse players will have an easier time against better players. So it will be more of a challenge to stay at the top, which is a welcome change for me.
About the ultimate generation itself, I think it's hard to tell without testing it, but I wouldn't mind cutting it down to 40s from 1min (for 200 ult).Edited by Sublime on December 22, 2014 3:36PMEU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes because Tanks in PvE are "unskilled" because we're lucky if we can drop ONE Ultimate per Boss fight. I can guarantee the change has NOTHING to do with unskilled players whining that they can't drop Ultimates as much as others do. The fact that some players can roll Ultimates continuously under the right circumstance while others (Tanks specifically) can hardly drop them at all is likely the reason for the change, and it's a good change. You might actually see AA/HR take 10 whole minutes instead of 9, the horror.Well my ult regen time is almost doubled so I feel ya.
But now only thing unskilled people have to do is auto attack to get their ults up so they'll feel like it's a major improvement since they'll get ults up faster which is why I say it's a buff to them and a nerf to good players. This is also going to screw up some PVE tactics where it was necessary to regen ultimate between two phases of a boss's attack.
It has everything to do with unskilled. There where plenty of other options to grant tanks with ult gen that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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Spawning impulse or even healing spring out of combat don't require much skill.So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
Yes AoE is the fastest way to gain ultimate, single target hardly generate it.
This probably depend on class but still.
I never use HEaling SPrings to regen ult out of combat
don't need that to pull DPS, same for impulse, during a boss fight when u're single target DPSing, impulse won't help you Edited by TehMagnus on December 22, 2014 4:07PM4 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
This is true, but considering the huge gap between good and bad players at the moment, this is a plus point for me. In the end good players will still be better, but worse players will have an easier time against better players. So it will be more of a challenge to stay at the top, which is a welcome change for me.
About the ultimate generation itself, I think it's hard to tell without testing it, but I wouldn't mind cutting it down to 40s from 1min (for 200 ult).
40s would pretty much be what I got with my single target DPS build. So I'd be fine with it.
Regarding staying on top, it will all be about finding out the best CP spending to pull the most DPS, which we will do, despite of the fact the system is supposed to bring "diversity"4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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The healing spring is nice especially if you wiped on boss and has to do him again with no adds to charge up on. Impulse is just one AoE effect who generate ultimate fast.
I never use HEaling SPrings to regen ult out of combat
Spawning impulse or even healing spring out of combat don't require much skill.So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
Yes AoE is the fastest way to gain ultimate, single target hardly generate it.
This probably depend on class but still. don't need that to pull DPS, same for impulse, during a boss fight when u're single target DPSing, impulse won't help you
yes it depend on crit, not sure if skill dependent, know that crunching shock hardly generate any and its the sorcerer primary attack, healing spring generate a lot, enables me to do multiple ultimates during a boss fight.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Source?
I'm starting to see a trickle regarding the class changes in 1.6.......but I'm missing the boat where to see them actually discussed and recorded.0 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭new ultimate gains will actually massively increase ulti gain in Cyrodiil for single target builds, tanky builds.
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Sublime✭✭✭✭So about 1 min to regen 200 ultimate. A big buff to most of the unskilled players, a nerf to people who know how to play.
This is true, but considering the huge gap between good and bad players at the moment, this is a plus point for me. In the end good players will still be better, but worse players will have an easier time against better players. So it will be more of a challenge to stay at the top, which is a welcome change for me.
About the ultimate generation itself, I think it's hard to tell without testing it, but I wouldn't mind cutting it down to 40s from 1min (for 200 ult).
40s would pretty much be what I got with my single target DPS build. So I'd be fine with it.
Regarding staying on top, it will all be about finding out the best CP spending to pull the most DPS, which we will do, despite of the fact the system is supposed to bring "diversity"
If you want to stay at the very top there will always be only one way to go, since it's rather unlikely that there are several builds with the best and exactly the same dps. But I think there will be more builds, which deal "acceptable" dps.EU | For those who want to improve their behaviour: the science behind shaping player bahaviour (presentation)3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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And what duration is this long fight where you can drop 3 Ultimates? After the change PvE tanks will be able to drop an Ultimate roughly once per minute while on a single Boss, a HUGE improvement. I don't consider anything < 5 minutes to be a "long fight" and after 1.6 even a 5 minute fight will see Tanks dropping 4-6 Ultimates.My pve tank can drop 3 ults on a long fight.1 -
Leon119✭✭✭✭
And what duration is this long fight where you can drop 3 Ultimates? After the change PvE tanks will be able to drop an Ultimate roughly once per minute while on a single Boss, a HUGE improvement. I don't consider anything < 5 minutes to be a "long fight" and after 1.6 even a 5 minute fight will see Tanks dropping 4-6 Ultimates.My pve tank can drop 3 ults on a long fight.
with my dk tank i can drop 2 standards atm in 3-4 mins so yeah >.>
if tanks want to spam ultimates get them to become WW and get spindleclutch boss setEdited by Leon119 on December 22, 2014 9:32PM1 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All this means to me is that it will now take me about 9-10 seconds instead of 5-6 seconds between Devouring Swarms....2 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭prototypefb wrote: »
Sorry, but you have mistaken me for a mindless Cyrodiil zerg monkey. I don't PvP. I use ultimate-reducing armor/weapon sets in conjunction with Devouring Swarm in PvE. So the ultimate gain changes won't affect me very much at all.3 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭prototypefb wrote: »
Sorry, but you have mistaken me for a mindless Cyrodiil zerg monkey. I don't PvP. I use ultimate-reducing armor/weapon sets in conjunction with Devouring Swarm in PvE. So the ultimate gain changes won't affect me very much at all.
ah, my bad, sorry m8, you know how these vampires are tho... i used to be one of you, so i know ;D0
