@ZOS: wouldnt this be easier?

Lynx7386 · December 2014

You're changing the ultimate system to make it more simple for both players and developers, we get that, but why is it being changed to something that is, essentially, just as complicated?

Now you're basing it off of light attacks and a 3 second buff that provides 3 ultimate per second. This system keeps the disparity between dps ultimate generation and healer/tank ultimate generation that we have now, it doesnt solve anything.

So, would it not be simpler to just change the entire mechanic to "Everyone gains 3 ultimate per second while in combat, regardless of what they're doing, what role they're playing, or what abilities they're using"?

Seems to me like this would have the exact same effect as the changes that are being implemented in v6, but would be easier on tanks especially (who dont light attack very often) and would make things significantly easier on the developers.

AshySamurai · December 2014

As I already said: "Easier? Yes. More fun? No."

Now you're basing it off of light attacks and a 3 second buff that provides 3 ultimate per second.

AFAIK it's 3 ult every sec for 8 secs.

kongkim · December 2014

Get your facts right before you whine.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

There's conflicting numbers in the posts here, saw one that said it was for 3 seconds, so that's what I went with.

Regardless, the point still stands. I dont honestly see how "fun factor" changes if you're getting the same amount of ultimate and playing the same way you always would. This just screws tanks over a little less.

Ommamar · December 2014

Well the thing with that and I believe it was stated in another post. Some people are very good at playing smart and understand how the system works so they can produce a lot of ultimate points quickly. So they should be rewarded for their skill. If everyone gets the same reward for "being" in combat you could basically not engage anything avoid area effect damage then use your ultimate the same as some one actively engaging the mob you are fighting.
That idea kind of reminds me of something they did in Warhammer Online where by simply being in a PvP zone you gained credit for it. The result is no one participated against others so it became very boring.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

No, they're taking skill out of the system anyways. You wont be able to gain ultimate any faster than any other player, because you're capped at a max of 3 ultimate per second. The buffs, presumably, do not stack.

The only way to increase ultimate generation now is not by player skill, it's by picking certain passives, skill lines, weapon types, or set bonuses.

Grunim · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

No, they're taking skill out of the system anyways. You wont be able to gain ultimate any faster than any other player, because you're capped at a max of 3 ultimate per second. The buffs, presumably, do not stack.

The only way to increase ultimate generation now is not by player skill, it's by picking certain passives, skill lines, weapon types, or set bonuses.

Some might say that picking certain passives, skill lines, weapon types, or set bonuses is a type of skill too.

kongkim · December 2014

I don't see the big problem here. If a play plays good and smart he still do more damage and win the fight. The fight is not all about ulti. But yah this brings people more up the same line and anyone get to cast a ulti at some point.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Well I wouldnt be one of them. Anyone can go web browsing to find flavor of the month builds, it's a plague among MMO's.

AshySamurai · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

There's conflicting numbers in the posts here, saw one that said it was for 3 seconds, so that's what I went with.

Regardless, the point still stands. I dont honestly see how "fun factor" changes if you're getting the same amount of ultimate and playing the same way you always would. This just screws tanks over a little less.

Well, there is the difference between all stand and do nothing and all parcitipate in battle. As a tank, you can only blocking as you did before and nothing will change. As a DD or healer, now you only need to stack crit chanse. It's nothing about player's skill, it's all about items.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Exactly, and from what we've been told you only get the ultimate generation buff by using a light/heavy attack or by healing someone who has the buff. How does this help tanks, who refrain from using light/heavy attacks because doing so causes them to drop their defenses?

kongkim · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Exactly, and from what we've been told you only get the ultimate generation buff by using a light/heavy attack or by healing someone who has the buff. How does this help tanks, who refrain from using light/heavy attacks because doing so causes them to drop their defenses?

You never attack to take aggo on a mob/boss? then do a fast swing inbetween.

Ommamar · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

No, they're taking skill out of the system anyways. You wont be able to gain ultimate any faster than any other player, because you're capped at a max of 3 ultimate per second. The buffs, presumably, do not stack.

The only way to increase ultimate generation now is not by player skill, it's by picking certain passives, skill lines, weapon types, or set bonuses.

Where have you seen that it is capped at 3 ultimate per second? My understanding based of comments made by ZOS representatives is there with still be other ways to produce ultimate using existing skills.

kongkim wrote: »

I don't see the big problem here. If a play plays good and smart he still do more damage and win the fight. The fight is not all about ulti. But yah this brings people more up the same line and anyone get to cast a ulti at some point.

I agree I rarely use ultimate when solo except for quest and world bosses. When grouped my activity level is high enough that the ultimate is there if I need it. As to the perception of the tank that stands there holding the shield up and perhaps taunting I don't see that as a very effective way to play.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Where have you seen that it is capped at 3 ultimate per second? My understanding based of comments made by ZOS representatives is there with still be other ways to produce ultimate using existing skills.

Right, what they were talking about is skills like the carve morph for cleave, which generates ultimate when you attack with it, or the werewolf passive that generates ultimate when you take damage (with the ability slotted).

Want to know what that's going to cause? More FOTM builds where everyone runs out and changes to 2h werewolf builds so they can build up their ultimates more quickly.

AshySamurai · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Exactly, and from what we've been told you only get the ultimate generation buff by using a light/heavy attack or by healing someone who has the buff. How does this help tanks, who refrain from using light/heavy attacks because doing so causes them to drop their defenses?

Well, as a good tank (and I want to be a good tank) I weave light/heavy(and apply dots) attacks when I can. Yeah, sometimes I need to agro few more major mobs and a boss at the same time and I only pray to templar to throw me spear, but mostly it's possible to hit one light/heavy attack every 8 seconds. So, it will really help to gain ultimate faster even for tanks. And mostly healer spam springs and I will be healed anyway, so I can miss few minor hits from boss and still survive, but make a heavy attack and get some stamina and ultimate gain buff. Also, now if healer heal me when I have this buff he/she also get this buff, so no losers.

@Lynx7386‌ check twitch record at 55:20 (about 3 ult every sec for 8 secs)

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

This change does have me wondering as well. However, I think to be fair they're trying to mitigate the differences between classes in ultimate generation, as well as trying to make the ultimates more 'equal' even if the end result likely will never be that. To be honest, I don't think we'll see real parity (or at least the potential for parity) between the classes til Spellcrafting goes live.

Ommamar · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Where have you seen that it is capped at 3 ultimate per second? My understanding based of comments made by ZOS representatives is there with still be other ways to produce ultimate using existing skills.

Right, what they were talking about is skills like the carve morph for cleave, which generates ultimate when you attack with it, or the werewolf passive that generates ultimate when you take damage (with the ability slotted).

Want to know what that's going to cause? More FOTM builds where everyone runs out and changes to 2h werewolf builds so they can build up their ultimates more quickly.

I get what you are saying. There is a one hand/ shield morph that gives ultimate too, I think it is called puncture but could be wrong. I do think a heavy attack should produce more ultimate then a light as you are paying a heavier price and using more resources then a light attack so should have more of a return.

As to the FOTM builds I don't see anyway around that. People are naturally lazy so if they can come to this site and others to see the newest awesomeness build then start using it they will.