Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Dragonknights - an TES Mystery

RinaldoGandolphi
RinaldoGandolphi
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The Dragonknight is a class of warriors in ESO. Their Class description reads as:
These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and phsyically alters the world around them.

Now lets get started on these first point.

1. The DragonKnight uses Akaviri martial arts.


Why I think the DragonKnight does not use Akaviri Martial Arts

What exactly is "Akaviri Martial Arts"? I can tell you its not what you see in ESO with the DragonKnight. Its not even close according to what i have red from in game books and lore.

First lets look at "who exactly" invaded Tamriel in the 1st Era 2703(This invasion happened years before The Interregnum)

These folks were the Tsaesci. There are many books that make it clear the Tsaesci are not human, and are not men, but they can "appear that way". If you read Mysterious Akavir, it tells us that:
The serpent-folk ate all the Men of Akavir a long time ago, but still kind of look like them. They are tall, beautiful (if frightening), covered in golden scales, and immortal. They enslave the goblins of the surrounding isles, who provide labor and fresh blood. The holdings of Tsaesci are widespread. When natives of Tamriel think of the Akaviri they think of the Serpent-Folk, because one ruled the Cyrodilic Empire for four hundred years in the previous era. He was Potentate Versidue-Shaie, assassinated by the Morag Tong.

So we see that the Tsaesci are Serpent Folk. They came to look like men because they "ate" all the men of Akavir. the Tsaesci actually take on the characteristics of those they are able to eat.

The Akaviri Potentates of course were not eating men in Tamriel because that wouldn't go over too well with the populace, so they retained more of their Serpent like appearance as can be read in Carlovac Townaway's Last Year of the1st Era 2920 series of books. which gives very detailed accounts and descriptions as to what exactly the Potentates looked like, including a joust between The Prince and Potente Versidue-Shaie son. Remember, Tsaesci "are what they eat" they can take on human appearance if they consume a man/mer.

Now lets look at "Who exactly" invaded Tamriel during the Second Akaviri Invasion of the 2nd Era 572.

Kamal (meaning Snow Hell) is a nation of Akavir. It is inhabited by armies of snow demons (also known as Kamal), who thaw out every summer and attempt to invade Tang Mo, but are always successfully repelled by the monkey-folk.[1] Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal, a king among the demons, once invaded Tamriel, but was defeated circa 2E 572,

The Kamal differ from the Tsaesci as they are "Snow Demons". Snow Demons are not going to fight like dragons, breath fire, or try to imitate dragons. They are Snow Demons and have their unique style of fighting.

The Tsaesci were trying to "consume" the Dragons because they wanted to be like them. However, as we learn from The Blades, "Only a Dragonborn can permanently kill a dragon". The Tsaesci were unable to consume the Dragons on their own, they could kill them temporarily, but they were unable to consume them. They came to Tamriel searching for a Dragonborn because a Dragonborn can permanently kill a dragon, and this would allow the Tsaesci to consume them.

The Akaviri Dragonguard(later called the Blades) founding members were from these Tsaesci people that invaded Tamriel in the 1st Era 2703.

The Tsaesci do not fight like dragons, because they were unsuccessful in consuming the Dragons and taking on their characteristics. The fighting style displayed by the Tsaesci as written in books and taken from first hand accounts resembles nothing of what the DragonKnight purports as "Akaviri Martial Arts". The Dragonguard/Blades has never used such a fighting style in their history. The Dragonguard/ Blades are known for their curved Akaviri Longswords and "Far East" Samurai/Martial Art type of fighting style and honor system. The Blades never relied on magic, instead they relied on expert swordsman ship, unmatched hand to hand combat skills, mastery of archery, and skilled battlefield tactics which allowed them to defeat most foes and armies even if outnumbered just due to their expert skill in fighting.

So the Dragonknight claims or inference that they are using the Blades/Dragonguards fighting style is looking to be not true because the Tsaesci (Early Blades/Dragonguard) never used such a fighting style.

Is Every Dragonknight Dragonborn?

Well according to some of the descriptions, they are, such as the Earthen Heart Skill Line description:

The Earthen Heart Skill line is described as:
Draconic Power – tapping into their draconic bloodline, the Dragonknight can fortify their own defenses and lock down enemies, eliminating foes quickly and brutally.”

Draconic Bloodline....That sounds an awful lot like they are saying the Dragonknights are Dragonborn to me. According to lore a Dragonborn is one who is born with the soul of a Dragon. the Dragons themselves refer to this person being born with "Dovah Sos"(Dragonblood.) Dragon blood or Dragonborn are used interchangeably.

Dragonborn get many abilties, the most well known being that they can absorb souls of Dragons taking their knowledge and using it to master the Thu'um also known as "The Way of the Voice". Allowing them to speak like dragons do with words of power. When there are no dragons around to slay(such as the late 2nd, 3rd, and early 4th eras), Dragonborns can only learn shouts like everyone else..with decades of training. However Dragonborns have other abilities besides just devouring dragonsouls, such as Allesia's ability to dream of the future, Uriel Septim able to see the coming of the Oblivion Crisis, etc...so its not just limited to martial affairs.

Every Dragonknight being Dragonborn(having a draconic bloodline) is simply just not possible. Being dragonborn or having the dragon blood is a gift from Akatosh himself directly, and is not always chosen by heridary means as shown in The Book of the Dragonborn which was written by the Order of Talos (An arm of the Blades part of their loremaster archives)
Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery.

The line of Septims have all been Dragonborn, of course, which is one reason the simplistic notion of it being hereditary has become so commonplace. But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule. We know that the Blades, usually thought of as the Emperor's bodyguards, originated in Akaviri crusaders who invaded Tamriel for obscure reasons in the late First Era. They appear to have been searching for a Dragonborn - the events at Pale Pass bear this out - and the Akaviri were the first to proclaim Reman Cyrodiil as Dragonborn. In fact it was the Akaviri who did the most to promote his standing as Emperor (although Reman himself never took that title in his lifetime). And of course there is no known hereditary connection between Tiber Septim and any of the previous Dragonborn rulers of Tamriel.

So we can see becoming Dragonborn and having the "Dovah Sos" is not a simple matter of heredity. So if Dragonknights are Dragonborn(i don't believe they are) then we have 500+ or more Dragonborns running around Tamriel at the same time during the Interregnum which just simply makes no sense, it makes no sense lorewise, it makes no sense for the Alliance War or any of it.

If Dragonknights have the Dragon Blood "Dovah Sos" as their descriptions seem to hint, then a Dragonknight could wear the Amulet of Kings and Light the Dragonfires, thus ending the Allaince War all together. Even just wearing the Amulet of Kings would be enough. Emeric, Ayren, and Jorunn would bow to anyone who was able to wear The Amulet of Kings because they would have proven without a shadow of a doubt that Akatosh himself chose that person to sit on the Ruby Throne. to elves, its acknowledgement Auriel has chosen this person.

The main reason the Alliance war is going on is because their isn't a legitimate Dragonborn Emperor. If Dragonknights are Dragonborn, then they can wear the Amulet of Kings which means they are legit rulers.

As for the Thu'um, the only people at this time period that know how to use the Voice are the Greybeards. The Voice Colleges were not started until Tiber Septim took the throne. So no one else knew the Voice, and the Greybeards are not going to teach the Way of the Voice to be used for martial purposes...the Greybards were willing to let Alduin destroy the world before using the Voice against him because it went agains their creed for pete's sake lol.

We also know that Dragon blood is not passed hereditary means. Just because a Dragonknight was related to a Dragonborn (a dad, grandpa, great grandpa, etc) doesn't mean he has the dragonblood or the ability to mimic dragons.

Perhaps the Dragonknights are actually Tongues?

Tonguesare individuals who have a natural ability to speak the language of Dragons - known as the "Storm Voice"[1], or simply the "Voice".
Tongues are typically Nordic in origin and those who demonstrate a talent usually require a great deal of study and training to develop their power. Nords consider themselves to be the children of the sky, and the breath and the voice of a Nord was his vital essence. Through the use of the Voice, the vital essence of a Nord could be articulated into a Thu'um,

Regardless of Race, even a Tongue, who is blessed with a natural affinity to learn the Voice, still takes YEARS to develop the ability...It t took Ulfric Stormcloak 10 years just to learn three words of Unrelenting Force and two words of the Disarm Shout...and these are more basic shouts, not the advanced kind like Fire breath (which you see Dragonknights use so effortlessly) which is one of the hardest shouts to learn and master.Even if the Dragonknights are Tongues, who is going to teach them? Because right now at this time period, no one but the Greybeards know how to use The Voice.

Conclusion

I am trying to get a better understanding of the Dragonknight itself. Its obvious to me from lore that they are not using an Akavir fighting style, because the Tsaesci never utilized this fighting style. The Tsaesci failed at consuming the Dragons, so they were not able to take on their characteristics or learn their secrets they so desperately wanted from them.

Please don't take this as a flame post, I am just trying to get an understanding of how the DragonKnight fits lore wise. The Templar is pretty easy to see, fits as priest, probably Stendarr, the Nightblade self explanatory, The Sorc same thing, but the Dragonknight doesn't seem to fit anywhere in lore and im hoping maybe someone can fill in the blanks with something that makes sense.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP



Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Leon119
    Leon119
    ✭✭✭✭
    from what i imagined dragonknights are like dragonslayers from the Fairy Tail anime. in ESO case they mimic magic they saw dragons use and transformed it into something that humans can use
  • driosketch
    driosketch
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I want to argue, but I can't. From an Elder Scrolls perspective, Dragonknights, tis a silly class concept.
    Edited by driosketch on December 12, 2014 5:50PM
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Tsaesci" is a snake race, but "Akaviri" is a human race. This has been shown clearly in actual in-game content in Oblivion and Skyrim, although this distinction was made (intentionally) ambiguous in the lorebooks.

    The fact that the Kamal invaded during this period is irrelevant, because the Dragonknight techniques could have been derived from other sources from Akavir. This is why there are Altmer dragonknights in AD, when the Kamal invasion had nothing to do with that region.
  • Rezzy64
    Rezzy64
    ✭✭✭
    I'm not trying to say that your point is wrong, but isn't it common knowledge that the deepest parts of the lore of Elder Scrolls is purposely obscured by the creators for the purpose of being flexible to fit developer purposes and intentions?

    I love Elder Scrolls lore a lot, but even I come up against pieces of information in the past games that don't quite make sense because it's been purposely obscured so that it could be tweaked at any moment to fit the premise of any kind of game they might be trying to put together at the time.

    I mean lets face it, despite the fact that it made sense in the premise of how "Daggerfall" was presented as a game, how many of you lore masters can truly understand the logic behind "The Warp in the West"?

    I do agree with the basic idea that "Dragon Knights" are not "Dragonborn". I mean there has never been a moment in the game where I see a DK run by and I say to myself, "There goes another Dragon Born." I guess I've never really looked into it as deep as you do, but honestly it doesn't bother me because at any moment a developer can swoop in, change all the "descriptions" of the DK class with obscure references and through it's vagueness it would probably fit right into the game along with many of the other strange and obscure pieces of lore that end with an explanation of, "because that's the way it is willed by the Elder Scrolls."

    Wouldn't mind a little tune up lore wise for DK's and a few other things in the game, but because of the flexibility of Lore in ES games, I'm really not all that worried about it.

    (Something I've been secretly wanting though to be added to the game, I would love more Akaviri Lore... and maybe some Katanas... Can I have my Katanas please? I miss them so... one handed and two handed please...)
  • BBSooner
    BBSooner
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great post! I can't devote as much time as I'd like to it this afternoon as I'd like at the moment but I wanted to pose the question: Even if they are completely unsuccessful in their efforts to "consume" the dragons could they not develop their magic/fighting style to mimic the aspects of dragons? In this way I'd argue that the Akaviri(Tsaeci) fighting style could be interpreted as dragon-esque.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The dragonknight class was designed intentionally to appeal to in all the CoD kids that played skyrim on the console. It was designed by the ancient arts of the marketing department, not in the halls of Akavir.

    That's why it is extremely easy to play and you can heal or do massive damage by spamming a few buttons.

    After the developers spend tons of time figuring out this class, they cranked out the other three rather quickly.
    Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on December 12, 2014 6:31PM
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aeratus wrote: »
    "Tsaesci" is a snake race, but "Akaviri" is a human race. This has been shown clearly in actual in-game content in Oblivion and Skyrim, although this distinction was made (intentionally) ambiguous in the lorebooks.

    The fact that the Kamal invaded during this period is irrelevant, because the Dragonknight techniques could have been derived from other sources from Akavir. This is why there are Altmer dragonknights in AD, when the Kamal invasion had nothing to do with that region.

    No humans have existed on Akavir for..i dunno since maybe before the 1st era. As the Tsaesci ate them all literally...they consumed them, thats why some of the Tsaesci appear human like. Oblivion and Skyrim never showed Akaviri, Akaviri is an ambiguous term for all the different races that come from the continent of Akavir. There is no human race on Akavir because the Tsaesci ate them all. If there was any humans, they would be very very few and would be slaves of the Tsaesci.

    Please understand, I actually like the idea of the Dragonknight class itself. I would just like to see if cleary fit lore.

    We know Sorcerors are trained at either the Isle of Arteaum by the Psyjic Order, at the Mages Guild, or the College of Winterhold.

    Templars easily fit as we know preists of Stendar, etc as seen in Skyrim do have some fighting abilties to do stuff so its not out of the question.

    Nightlblades easily fit with the Morag Tong or the Dark Brotherhood, so thats an easy fit.

    I would just like to see the Dragonknight fit just as easy. I would love to seem them fit a Dragonknight college into future content, and perhaps explain how the DragonKnight originated. I am going to assume Dragonknights just use standard magic to emulate dragons of legend, and i would be estatic with that explanation. As we know there are Temples Dedicated to Ebonarm in Hammerfell, so it would be easy to fit the Dragonknight into that lore as being trained by the Order of Ebonarm, which is an order of warriors kinda like the Fighters Guild, but they don't fight for money, they are sorta like the Sword-Singers, they do it because they want to master the techniques of their enemies.

    As i said, i like the Dragonknight class, i would just like to see a backstory with them expanded upon much as we have seen with mages, nightblades, and preists :)
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BBSooner wrote: »
    Even if they are completely unsuccessful in their efforts to "consume" the dragons could they not develop their magic/fighting style to mimic the aspects of dragons? In this way I'd argue that the Akaviri(Tsaeci) fighting style could be interpreted as dragon-esque.
    Definitely a legitimate observation. It's definitely plausible that the DK fighting style is merely an imitation dragons, while not having powers actually derived from dragons. And all the descriptions such as "draconic power" are merely metaphorical.
  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    woodsro wrote: »
    No humans have existed on Akavir for..i dunno since maybe before the 1st era. As the Tsaesci ate them all literally...they consumed them, thats why some of the Tsaesci appear human like. Oblivion and Skyrim never showed Akaviri, Akaviri is an ambiguous term for all the different races that come from the continent of Akavir. There is no human race on Akavir because the Tsaesci ate them all. If there was any humans, they would be very very few and would be slaves of the Tsaesci.
    That's your interpretation. Not everyone has the same view.

    The description that the Tsaesci "ate" the men of Akavir is just a metaphorical description (for political conquest of some sort), and is probably intended to be inaccurate in its literal terms. Also, those lorebooks are so vague, they are intended to be more rumors than fact.

    Skyrim shows that the Akaviri Dragonguard are human like (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Alduin's_Wall_(Lore)).

    In Oblivion, you meet an Akaviri's ghost, and he is human. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Akaviri_Commander_Mishaxhi) Moreover, "Mishaxhi" is clearly not an imperial (roman-sounding) name.
    Edited by Aeratus on December 12, 2014 6:31PM
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    BBSooner wrote: »
    Great post! I can't devote as much time as I'd like to it this afternoon as I'd like at the moment but I wanted to pose the question: Even if they are completely unsuccessful in their efforts to "consume" the dragons could they not develop their magic/fighting style to mimic the aspects of dragons? In this way I'd argue that the Akaviri(Tsaeci) fighting style could be interpreted as dragon-esque.

    Perhaps, thats not far fetched, but there is no record of the early Akvari Dragonguard(Tsaesci) incorporating such a fighting style. If they did though, it must not have been very successful, because they came to Tamriel looking for a Dragonborn to fight dragons and help them and they protect the Dragonborn.

    This is why i post this here, im all ears and i think someone here can make this fit. Even during The Interregnum, a fighting style like this would not be lost. Someone would teach their son/daughter this style, who would then carry it on even if it wasn't written down. The Blades had been displaced, and such multiple times over the eras, yet their style remained in tact, the Blades never lost that which made them the Dragonguard, their curved swords, their Far East fighting style and architecture, their unique sword and combat style was preserved down through the ages.
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Stroggnonimus
    Stroggnonimus
    ✭✭✭
    As a Dragonknight I feel slightly offended and want to argue but just cant...
    The only argument I can say is that DKs somehow not uses actual dragon powers, but mimics it. So they might actually have not dragon blood but be descendants of Tsaesci that somehow acquired draconic powers. This might be something to do with Dragonborn or more likely, they found a way how to "consume" dragons, but if this happened then theres no way to prove it since we have no idea whats going on in Akavir. But that would technically explainuse the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic but we shouldnt understand martial arts directly, it should mean that they are able to use Tsaesci consumed dragon powers and because of very limited knowledge about Akavir, Tsaesci might have been mistaken as main and pretty much only race living in Akavir, so thats why its called Akaviri martial arts, not tsaesci martial arts.
    And Alliance War still might be happening because there are so many dragonknights, and everyone is able to become the emperor. But that doesn't explain why Jorunn, Emeric and Ayren is in charge of alliance, UNLESS they all are dragonknights themselves. Otherwise they should bow to every Dk running around since he/she is rightful ruler of Tamriel.

    Or another theory that I have is that dragons are quite powerful creatures, so what could happened is that Dragons themselves gave some of their power to some people that we now know as DragonKnights. So they are able to easily use dragon powers while not actually being dragonborn. The reasons why they did this, of course, unknow, and there arent any dragons around atm, though they might have done this thousands of years ago.
    Edited by Stroggnonimus on December 12, 2014 6:51PM
    Whoever said that argonians aren't sexy, is obviously not a sexy argonian.

    OG Argonian tank

    BLOOD FOR THE PACT !

  • BBSooner
    BBSooner
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    woodsro wrote: »
    BBSooner wrote: »
    Great post! I can't devote as much time as I'd like to it this afternoon as I'd like at the moment but I wanted to pose the question: Even if they are completely unsuccessful in their efforts to "consume" the dragons could they not develop their magic/fighting style to mimic the aspects of dragons? In this way I'd argue that the Akaviri(Tsaeci) fighting style could be interpreted as dragon-esque.

    Perhaps, thats not far fetched, but there is no record of the early Akvari Dragonguard(Tsaesci) incorporating such a fighting style. If they did though, it must not have been very successful, because they came to Tamriel looking for a Dragonborn to fight dragons and help them and they protect the Dragonborn.

    This is why i post this here, im all ears and i think someone here can make this fit. Even during The Interregnum, a fighting style like this would not be lost. Someone would teach their son/daughter this style, who would then carry it on even if it wasn't written down. The Blades had been displaced, and such multiple times over the eras, yet their style remained in tact, the Blades never lost that which made them the Dragonguard, their curved swords, their Far East fighting style and architecture, their unique sword and combat style was preserved down through the ages.

    I'm not so sure it was ineffective, they did successfully invade and rule Tamriel with these troops.

    As for following a dragonborn I suspect they viewed the Dragonborn in a dogmatic light - a being capable of doing what they could not: consuming dragons. It's easy to see how that would be revered if enough societal emphasis was on it.

    Beyond that, I imagine even if they could not consume it themselves they revered the Dragon as a being to emulate - similar to the Aztec Jaguar Warriors for example. The Tsaesci could have revered it enough to want to emulate the presence a dragon has on the battlefield, so their fighting style and spell pool were tailored to mimic a dragon.

    After the origins of the fighting style had been expunged from the continent it could have been carried on less and less. The blades could only be teaching a fraction of the fighting style by the end of the 3rd and beginning of 4th eras, making the core of the Dragonknight magic lostback to the far east over time.
    Edited by BBSooner on December 12, 2014 7:13PM
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aeratus wrote: »
    woodsro wrote: »
    No humans have existed on Akavir for..i dunno since maybe before the 1st era. As the Tsaesci ate them all literally...they consumed them, thats why some of the Tsaesci appear human like. Oblivion and Skyrim never showed Akaviri, Akaviri is an ambiguous term for all the different races that come from the continent of Akavir. There is no human race on Akavir because the Tsaesci ate them all. If there was any humans, they would be very very few and would be slaves of the Tsaesci.
    That's your interpretation. Not everyone has the same view.

    The description that the Tsaesci "ate" the men of Akavir is just a metaphorical description (for political conquest of some sort), and is probably intended to be inaccurate in its literal terms. Also, those lorebooks are so vague, they are intended to be more rumors than fact.

    Skyrim shows that the Akaviri Dragonguard are human like (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Alduin's_Wall_(Lore)).

    In Oblivion, you meet an Akaviri's ghost, and he is human. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Akaviri_Commander_Mishaxhi) Moreover, "Mishaxhi" is clearly not an imperial (roman-sounding) name.

    Well the term "ate" could also refer to the Tsaesci assimilating the remaining humans they conquered in Akavir as part of their culture, much like how the Romans assimilated other people into their Empire when they conquered them. So in this case the humans that are left on Akavir are part of the Tsaesci culture.

    Mysterious Akavir does leave two interpretations for "consume" or "ate" Either the Serpent men literally ate the men of akavir, or they conquered them, regardless they were assimilated into their culture.

    I still lean towards the sense they literally ate them as the Tsaesci are described as "Vampire Snakes". Mishaxi appears human, as the Tsaesci still look like humans after eating the men of Akavir (i i believe that interpretation, but its fair to believe the conquest one too)


    The Dragonguard appearing on the Alduin's Wall were the later people of the Empire that the Dragonguard recuited into their ranks that would make up the majority of the future Blades organization. It makes sense for them to look human, as the Dragonguard was recruiting people from the provinces years before the construction of Alduin's Wall.

    Also, in the Disaster of Ionith Emperor Uriel III invaded Akavir and never encountered a single man, and he traveled pretty extensively there taking 2 cities, renaming one Ionith and the Other Septimia. He ran into plenty of the Tsaesci though, and was eventually killed, but the survirors who escaped never chronicled seeing any humans/men on Akavir.

    Understand though, im not saying your wrong. "Consume or Ate" could just simply mean conquered. its a valid position.

    I just don't think it means that, i think it means literally "eaten" because we know someone "Mantled" the Mad God and became the new Daedric Prince of Madness.

    We also know Talos become a god by himself, Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus "Mantling" Lorkhan. So their is basis as something as ridiculous as "Mantling" turning someone into a god, its not outside the realm that quite literally ate could be taken literally. As the Tsaesci are very mysterious folk in many ways.

    Alduin eats the world quite literally...he eats it like you or I would eat dinner...sounds ridiclious, but thats why he is called The World Eater. These types of ridiclious things such as mantling and eating are usually proven true in TES, its this magical part of the game that makes it so cool, as people become gods, etc in the most ridiclious of ways. Yet they weave in just enough political and posturing to keep you interested and guessing :)

    regardless, I would love to see them exapand on a story behind the DragonKnights...I think it would be excellent.





    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • vladimilianoub17_ESO1
    vladimilianoub17_ESO1
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nerf dk descrption now zos,it is op.
  • driosketch
    driosketch
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The dragonknight class was designed intentionally to appeal to in all the CoD kids that played skyrim on the console. It was designed by the ancient arts of the marketing department, not in the halls of Akavir.

    That's why it is extremely easy to play and you can heal or do massive damage by spamming a few buttons.
    I wouldn't put it so harshly, but this is basically the reason why the warrior class choice comes with dragon flavoring that now has to be shoehorned into lore some how.

    Templars are too just a bit. They are basically the Crusader class but tweaked slightly to be the hybrid/Paladin class choice.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • Kungfu
    Kungfu
    ✭✭✭✭
    Rezzy64 wrote: »
    I'm not trying to say that your point is wrong, but isn't it common knowledge that the deepest parts of the lore of Elder Scrolls is purposely obscured by the creators for the purpose of being flexible to fit developer desires to make ESO more like WOW than TES?

    FIFY
  • Wing
    Wing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread made me actually read Disaster at Ionith and for that I thank you, it was a good read :)
    ESO player since beta.
    previously full time subscriber, beta-2024, now off and on, game got too disappointing.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Rydik
    Rydik
    ✭✭✭✭
    They are mimicking dragons abilities with destro and resto magic(or combination of others), they dont use Tu'um so they are not dragonborns, this style of fighting come with Dragon Guard that comes from Akavir, while looking for Dragonborn(Reman Cyrodiil), to serve him as Blades in future... They are warrior-mage class from original TES games.
    Edited by Rydik on December 12, 2014 11:19PM
  • Kesstryl
    Kesstryl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    So glad someone else asked this question, I've also been wondering how the DK fits into TES lore. Some of these answers are good but nothing is fully satisfactory to the lore as of yet.
    HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts! Contact @Kesstryl in-game to join.
  • NordJitsu
    NordJitsu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The Tsaesci are a Draconic Culture. Their religion, nomenclature, legends, art, architecture, ect. Are all heavily influenced by dragons. It makes sense that their martial arts would be too.

    Akavir means "dragon land" and dragons are important in all Akaviri cultures.

    Metaphysically, all races are degraded et'ada. It would be reasonable to assume that the Tsaesci (being serpent folk) are a lower sub-gradient of dragons or at least related to them.

    The "Kia" was the only known Akaviri technique prior to ESO. It's similar to a thuum. Inhale and Fire Breath are both arguably Kia.

    I think it's fairly clear (and also explained in in game books) that dragon Knights are people who've been trained by Tsaesci either directly or in directly through the Dragon Guard (future Blades).
    Edited by NordJitsu on December 13, 2014 4:56AM
    @NordJitsu - Guild Master (Main Character = Hlaalu Idas)
    GREAT HOUSE HLAALU
  • Enkil
    Enkil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dragonknights are an abomination and should have never been added to any Elder Scrolls game . They do not appear as a class in any of the games of the future times. It's just an implausible stretch that the dev's took to make an implausible class. They needed to abide by the decades old Elder Scrolls canon that class is only a name and does not restrict players, impart unique abilities, nor construe the lore of the game. ESO's classes are a joke.... and a very unfortunate and sad departure from the Elder Scroll universe which is the chief element that keeps this MMO alive.

    Instead of trying to make Elder Scrolls Online conform to some DAoC standards, they should have started anew and made an innovative Elder Scrolls MMO not reminiscent nor reliant on any dumba$$ MMO predecessor. The Elder Scrolls marque carries far more weight than any title out there and certainly far more than DAoC.

    It's probably been a very slow realization for the Dev's, but maybe in the long run they will make it happen. We don't want DAoTamriel. We want an innovative MMO that is true to the rich and diverse Elder Scrolls universe!!
    Edited by Enkil on December 13, 2014 5:52AM
  • Sesoni
    Sesoni
    Soul Shriven
    (this post is not to necro the thread, only to give readers like me, who only just found this, a different way to look at dragon knights.)

    "martial arts tradition of battle-spirit"

    Hopefully, that helps.

    They aren't using Akaviri martial arts as a whole. Just one small part of it. Battle Spirit. Whatever Battle Spirit is, it is likely capable of more than just mimicking a dragon. The way it sounded to me was that it was simply a way of using magic that focused more on enhancing/altering one's own body for combat-related means.

    The snake bros likely use this Battle Spirit to mimic what they eat, as well as using their Kia, so it's more than plausible that battle spirit is capable of mimicking in a different manner. Think of battle spirit as the general way of channeling/using magic on Akavir. While Tamriel has their spellcraft. So rather than a physical martial art, all that was adopted into Dragon Knights is this way of using magic, Battle Spirit.
    Edited by Sesoni on May 18, 2017 5:21AM
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Much as I hate to weigh in on this three years after it was originally written, but: "martial arts" can refer to any specific style of combat. So, if the Akiviri combat doctrine calls for extensive use of pyromancy, then the practice of that would be (or could at least be described as) a, "martial art."
  • KochDerDamonen
    KochDerDamonen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No
    If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].
  • DjMuscleboy02
    DjMuscleboy02
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    3b044022acb51d36bd0e926cf9de6e1e.jpg

    Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
    Hodor, but stronger
  • Rinmaethodain
    Rinmaethodain
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    WHAT AM I????
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    if the Dragonknights are based on Akaviri martial arts tradition, then it's no wonder the Nords, Dunmer, and Argonians pushed the the invaders back to the sea
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • ZOS_Bill
    ZOS_Bill
    admin
    This thread is a necro from almost three years ago, so we are closing the discussion. You may go ahead and start a new thread if you want to discuss this subject further.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
This discussion has been closed.