boss broken in BC-tips to deal with it.

schroed360 · December 2014

Ok so yesterday i ve done banished cell on vet 12 and things are still broke .
Imril is still by passing block mitigation .And the last boss too ,in addition you can t reflect it spell .This make those fight a hell for the tank and a real nightmare for the healer .
So I want to share and learn tips to deal with those boss.

For Imril it was simple, just taunt ,use PvP speed buff then run around the room .Not glorious but you won t take any damage like that . So it is annoying for DD but a lot better for the tank and healer.

For last boss ...I did not find anything.Shield are shred into piece reflect,block do not work ,avoidance does not work again spell...If someone as any idea I d love to hear it.
Only thing I can think of for next time is craft myself 2 +spell resist ring enchant to go get spell resist hardcap ...at least it will be almost 20% less hard for the healer...
Idea?

zaria · December 2014

Imril can be done simple by standing behind the pillar at right of the stairs, tank pulls her, and tank her just in front of the group. Use AOE if she spawns adds.

For the last boss, did it yesterday, one dps is responsible for the balls, one for the daedrots, do dps on boss only then both are down, then boss is down to 10-15% let daedrots live so one dps tanks the them until you have three, at this point pop an potions and execute boss.

its an hard fight so drop it if your not in an good group.

schroed360 · December 2014

zaria wrote: »

Imril can be done simple by standing behind the pillar at right of the stairs, tank pulls her, and tank her just in front of the group. Use AOE if she spawns adds.

For the last boss, did it yesterday, one dps is responsible for the balls, one for the daedrots, do dps on boss only then both are down, then boss is down to 10-15% let daedrots live so one dps tanks the them until you have three, at this point pop an potions and execute boss.

its an hard fight so drop it if your not in an good group.

Thanks for the answer ...but i think you missed the point...you probably are not the tank or healer.I was not asking for the strategy of the fight I know them since a long time(BC was the easiest vet dungeon) and was also able to finish it in less than 30mn yersterday ...
The point is : their mechanics (ie :by pass block mitigation, by pass reflect skills )are broken .So how can we overcome those broken mechanics So kiting for first one is the easy solution But we can kite spells ...
Thanks anyway.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · December 2014

did it 2times yesterday, last boss is such a ***, didn't know he was bugged, but he was alot thougher than before 1.5
first with my DK tank, dragon scales doesn't work, and his standard attacks hit for 7-800ish while blocking, plus some daedroth powning on me and the fire aoe circles... so I used all my mag on green dragon blood, also used the fighters guild protection circle and evasion (+histbarkset) for as much passive dodges as possible, after a few wipes we finally got him down.

afterwards did it with my Tempalr tank with another group (second dung I've ever tanked with him since I always healed before, but boy is he good at tanking)
Restoring focus, evasion, taunt, HtD, Blazing shield, solar prison, that bar plus extended ritual for cleanse and PotL for some extra dam, it was like day and night, although still though, we got him first try

Layenem · December 2014

zaria wrote: »

Imril can be done simple by standing behind the pillar at right of the stairs, tank pulls her, and tank her just in front of the group. Use AOE if she spawns adds.

For the last boss, did it yesterday, one dps is responsible for the balls, one for the daedrots, do dps on boss only then both are down, then boss is down to 10-15% let daedrots live so one dps tanks the them until you have three, at this point pop an potions and execute boss.

its an hard fight so drop it if your not in an good group.

This sounds more like an exploiting mechanic where you're literally taking an element of the fight completely out of the equation. That's boring. No thank you.

We, as tanks, just want the block to work again. Pre 1.5, including PTS (I tested this dungeon since January of 2014) block has always worked. Once 1.5 dropped block stopped working. It's not a new mechanic, it's just broken. The tank eats WAY too much damage.

On top of that, there's no way to do the same thing on the final boss...

@schroed360 On the final boss, it's a PITA, but as a sorc tank I try to keep my light armor buff up (can't remember the name of it atm) when the lightning falls from the sky cause HOLY crap is it just too much damage with that + 1 or more daedroth + the boss beating on me. I don't even block anymore since it just makes me stand in the lightening longer than I should... sigh...

As for Imiril, I can't even complete that boss anymore without 900+ ST DPS and 3k+ AOE DPS in my group. So much for taking new guys through the zone. Tried last night, nope. Not happening.

Also, I made a similar post on this last night as well, I'm glad to see someone else stepping up and making the same issue known!

@zos_jessicafolsom Any answers yet?

My post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/142679/vet-bc-wtf

manny254 · December 2014

The last boss uses a lightning staff, and I pretty sure you could never reflect a lighting staff. I could be wrong so feel free to correct me, but I don't think that is a bug.

schroed360 · December 2014

Layenem Thanks for posting .Was really feeling alone on this problem and I m glad to see that I m not.You should try the kitting method for Imril since it really ease the fight .Just need to come tank add and aoe down them fast then when the boss come back taunt/speed buff and run.Only difficulty is killing the wave befor the boss came back but since your healer will be full of mana he can burst 60-70% of it on the wave.

Manni254 Thx for you comment because in any case you point me out something interresting! Lightning damage so will use 2 kuta for.some +lighting rez and I d be at cap( hard one).

Layenem · December 2014

Yeah I've been kiting this boss since this issue. Last night we had a newer player to vet dungeons, melee, and I was trying to find every alternative to kiting and just couldn't do it. Literally frustrated that I had to tell the guy that he wasn't enough RANGED DPS on his second vet dungeon... ZERO love for melee on a fight that you used to be able to rock 2 melee on. Hell one of the strats some people used to use (not me) was to stack the DPS and Healer on the bosses but and move them across the room as the orbs repositioned. I didn't like the strat for my own reasons but it worked out great for them, @Defatank being one of the people who used it. Now it's become a DK/NB tank only zone and it's just as disheartening as going more than a month of doing gold chest keys and seeing everyone but me, literally, get the Malubeth shoulders.

I've lost a lot of interest in this game over the tanking issues (SO having a huge GLARING one) and the way they refuse to address the gold chest's "drop chance" on the shoulders. Basically forcing myself to play for an hour or so just to do dailies and maybe one or two weekly trial runs and that's it. Love the game. Just hate being treated like a second rate citizen because I love to play Sorc... and I'm a better tank on sorc than most players on a DK or NB.

TehMagnus · December 2014

DK Tank => Igneous Shield => Green Dragon Blood (in that order).
Templar Healer => Competent => Spell cost Reduction armor build => Breath Of life.

GG WP.

Aeratus · December 2014

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

Layenem · December 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Merlin13KAGL · December 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

Did it this way once, honestly because I didn't believe it would work.

It's effective...but lame. I'm hopeful they fix this in her dynamic, but at the same time, she should be reasonable.

The AoE cap is really starting to make things like this very difficult, very fast. If one person goes down (not hard to do with the environmental snags), it can get ugly in a hurry.

Couple a' rounds and you can have 6+ on you in no time flat...

Regarding tanking the last boss, last time we ran this the tank was having mitigation issues as well. Add to that a glitch that he was taking constant damage of about 500 hps from an uncurable curse that was never even placed on him. The damage wouldn't go away even at reset and there was no visible indication (wasn't a red/blue thing)

Shunravi · December 2014

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

TehMagnus · December 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

Yeah, as long as you have competent players, almost anything goes. For all the rest, there's masterc... erm Dk tanks & Templar healers.

Shunravi · December 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

Yeah, as long as you have competent players, almost anything goes. For all the rest, there's masterc... erm Dk tanks & Templar healers.

Lol, ya.....

TehMagnus · December 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

Yeah, as long as you have competent players, almost anything goes. For all the rest, there's masterc... erm Dk tanks & Templar healers.

Lol, ya.....

Oh and btw, finished VDSA with sorc healer

Layenem · December 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

Hey, there are those of us that push through without. My brother is a Temp healer but only because he actually loves the class. I run all of this content with sorc and NB healers all the time. Surprisingly don't actually know a DK healer, STILL want to see one do it, just to say I've seen a DK healer lol

magnusnet wrote: »

Yeah, as long as you have competent players, almost anything goes. For all the rest, there's masterc... erm Dk tanks & Templar healers.

And absolutely lol

Artemiisia · December 2014

Imril, is that the one with 3 sets of different adds keeps spawning?

if so, have to ask have they boosted that boos in the last 4 months I have been gone? I had seriously hard time beating her yesterday, maybe due to the lack of other dps aoe. But the fight do feel harder, which I love

Shunravi · December 2014

Layenem wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

Well, I can't speak for other groups, but in everything other than SO and VDSA all I REQUIRE to heal is someone who knows how to do it. BoL is great, but not necessary. All I REQUIRE in a tank is someone who knows how to hold agro. Imo, DK tanks are overrated.

But then again, I guess my I'm not 'most people.'

Hey, there are those of us that push through without. My brother is a Temp healer but only because he actually loves the class. I run all of this content with sorc and NB healers all the time. Surprisingly don't actually know a DK healer, STILL want to see one do it, just to say I've seen a DK healer lol

magnusnet wrote: »

Yeah, as long as you have competent players, almost anything goes. For all the rest, there's masterc... erm Dk tanks & Templar healers.

And absolutely lol

I know a DK healer! Pretty fun guy.

Layenem · December 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

I know a DK healer! Pretty fun guy.

WTB vids yo!!!! I have been half tempted at making a DK JUST to heal with and committing supposed blasphemy lol

Shunravi · December 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

Imril, is that the one with 3 sets of different adds keeps spawning?

if so, have to ask have they boosted that boos in the last 4 months I have been gone? I had seriously hard time beating her yesterday, maybe due to the lack of other dps aoe. But the fight do feel harder, which I love

Aye, and those annoying blue orbs. Scaling boosted everything. Things are certainly more fun now

.

Layenem · December 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

Imril, is that the one with 3 sets of different adds keeps spawning?

if so, have to ask have they boosted that boos in the last 4 months I have been gone? I had seriously hard time beating her yesterday, maybe due to the lack of other dps aoe. But the fight do feel harder, which I love

Yes, that's her.

With 1.5 all of the dungeons "original" difficulty was set to what we now see as Vet level 1. I think it's like a 5-8% increase in ALL THINGS DUNGEON (HP, damage done, resistences, etc...) per vet level. Wild guess, feels right. Definitely more difficult but and a few things are a tad bit over done (happens when you do a flat rate increase instead of intelligently increasing things one by one depending on mob type [trash, boss, mini boss] and specific stats).

All in all, far more fun. This specific fight, and Rilis (final boss in BC) completely bypass block now, regardless of vet level. Good news is Tuesday's are also Supernatural days so I just ignore the game and go and watch TV.

TehMagnus · December 2014

Dk heal

zaria · December 2014

Layenem wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Imaril - just use the corner trick (lol)

The fact that most people REQUIRE a templar healer makes these things broken.

The fact that most people REQUIRE a DK tank is stupidly broken.

Thanks ZOS, this person proved a point we've been trying to make since 1.5... THERE IS NO CLASS BALANCE!!!

I have healed trough it as an sorc, no it was not easy, my main issue was that people was too spread out on boss daedrot and balls.
And yes as its broken its an very hard dungeon now.
Hard content is easier with tempar healers and DK tanks.
My main problem as an healer in many groups has mostly been that the dps take too much damage from trash, boss fights are easier as people don't take +1k damage/ second over 10 seconds unless they do something wrong

Artemiisia · December 2014

I freaking love that !!!

two days ago I was sorcerer healing in I think direfrost keep, where the giant bug that slams the ground from time to time, with two adds that we just ignore.

normally I dont sweat healing there, but that time I had to focus on healing that 6k damage

schroed360 · December 2014

I am a DK tank with a second spec as DD and sometime i also heal for fun( and the achèvement heal in dungeon).I won t call myself a healer because I miss warlock and/or healer jewelry.But just with seducer +mana cost reduction
and an over the softcap weapon damage is already kinda efficient.In addition I really feel that a healer that chain pull any distant mob and drop standard of might every 30 sec is really underated^^.

Evandus · December 2014

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

did it 2times yesterday, last boss is such a ***, didn't know he was bugged, but he was alot thougher than before 1.5
first with my DK tank, dragon scales doesn't work, and his standard attacks hit for 7-800ish while blocking, plus some daedroth powning on me and the fire aoe circles... so I used all my mag on green dragon blood, also used the fighters guild protection circle and evasion (+histbarkset) for as much passive dodges as possible, after a few wipes we finally got him down.

afterwards did it with my Tempalr tank with another group (second dung I've ever tanked with him since I always healed before, but boy is he good at tanking)
Restoring focus, evasion, taunt, HtD, Blazing shield, solar prison, that bar plus extended ritual for cleanse and PotL for some extra dam, it was like day and night, although still though, we got him first try

Did this fight yesterday on my DK tank. I agree that a Templar tank is better suited for this fight. With no reflect via wings/abilities, and blocking not working - it was very difficult for the healer to deal with this fight.

I prefer my DK over my Templar. But it's clear that some situations are dealt with more smoothly with one or the other. I was caught off guard by lack of ability to mitigate the damage of the two bosses. Has anyone at ZOS mentioned looking into this yet?

Shunravi · December 2014

Layenem wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I know a DK healer! Pretty fun guy.

WTB vids yo!!!! I have been half tempted at making a DK JUST to heal with and committing supposed blasphemy lol

Well, here's his stream,

He's been dd more often recently, but he still heals.

Kraven · December 2014

I think some people are missing the point.
Yes, it can be done, Lay has actually tanked it for me several times since 1.5.
I've successfully tanked it with a NB.
The issue is the broken mechanic.

On top of the issue with block, the best way to get past said broken mechanic is to use either another broken mechanic (Yes the corner is an exploit, just like the bridge for Mephala is an exploit) OR an over buffed class. The simple fact that a broken mechanic can not be blocked or mitigated by anything else but can be with Igneous Shield and GDB is a problem in and of itself.

When the ZOS starts designing fights around abilities like Breath of Life's heal numbers + range or a DK's shields + self sustaining + armor + etc then the game itself predefines your role based on your class. I'm okay with some players doing it but when the game itself says I must only dps as a NB and only in this one specific rotation in order to do enough dps for the new content provided. Then there is a problem. But I guess that's a whole other conversation.

Shunravi · December 2014

Kraven wrote: »

I think some people are missing the point.
Yes, it can be done, Lay has actually tanked it for me several times since 1.5.
I've successfully tanked it with a NB.
The issue is the broken mechanic.

On top of the issue with block, the best way to get past said broken mechanic is to use either another broken mechanic (Yes the corner is an exploit, just like the bridge for Mephala is an exploit) OR an over buffed class. The simple fact that a broken mechanic can not be blocked or mitigated by anything else but can be with Igneous Shield and GDB is a problem in and of itself.

When the ZOS starts designing fights around abilities like Breath of Life's heal numbers + range or a DK's shields + self sustaining + armor + etc then the game itself predefines your role based on your class. I'm okay with some players doing it but when the game itself says I must only dps as a NB and only in this one specific rotation in order to do enough dps for the new content provided. Then there is a problem. But I guess that's a whole other conversation.

Hmmm... My friend and I have tanked practically everything on our nightblades. And healed. And dps'd. So I don't really see your point on that.

Yea, scaling messed up a few things, but they are still manageable. You just need to understand what's going to happen and what to do when it does.

Dagoth_Rac · December 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Regarding tanking the last boss, last time we ran this the tank was having mitigation issues as well. Add to that a glitch that he was taking constant damage of about 500 hps from an uncurable curse that was never even placed on him. The damage wouldn't go away even at reset and there was no visible indication (wasn't a red/blue thing)

I was that Tank. I still see the number 555 in my nightmares. Rilis was hitting me for 555 damage every 0.5 seconds. I couldn't tell if it was some kind of curse/DoT or just Rilis spamming his auto-attack on me since I had him taunted. And it was nonstop. Like 555 every half second and it went on for minutes. I repaired and he was still hitting for 555 so armor provided no mitigation. I have to assume it was spell damage, but my spell resist is soft-capped even before I lay down Restoring Focus. It was not from being tossed in the air and needing to purge/cleanse/run to the colored square. It was always there as soon as the fight starts, before anyone was even thrown in the air.