AvA in ESO (NA) is on its deathbed

Blud · December 2014

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Remember that key devs came from DAoC...

You are what you eat.

This was one reason a lot of people thought ESO would have decent pvp and be able to break away from a lot of the faction balance problems of 2-faction games and endgame pve raiding/gear grind. I never played DAoC, but I've read a lot of posts by people saying it was legendary and the best game ever, etc. etc. I was hoping some of that would have rubbed off on ESO pvp.

But to put it plainly, it's broken. I don't think we are going to hear any more about it from ZOS till after the holidays. And by the time steps are actually taken to do anything, not till spring at the earliest. And by the time those fixes (if they come) are implemented, they will need to be tweaked and balanced, etc. So not till summer?

drschplatt · December 2014

I've played a dozen MMOs over the years, and I've never played one where people didn't come into the forums constantly complaining about lag and performance issues. If people are so hard core and experienced, shouldn't they just expect by this point to have lag and performance issues? Back in the day the DAoC forums were full of it, WoW forums are full of it, LOTRO forums are full of it, and SWoR forums are full of it. It's life.

Leeric · December 2014

Anyone find it odd that these threads pop up more when AD isn't winning in PVP...
Interesting....

Aoe_Barbecue · December 2014

I am not AD.

Akselmo · December 2014

It seems crowded on EU servers, but I don't understand the whole campaign thing. Why is there so many different servers for PvP, if instead we could have one or two which would always be crowded?

Razzak · December 2014

drschplatt wrote: »

I've played a dozen MMOs over the years, and I've never played one where people didn't come into the forums constantly complaining about lag and performance issues. If people are so hard core and experienced, shouldn't they just expect by this point to have lag and performance issues? Back in the day the DAoC forums were full of it, WoW forums are full of it, LOTRO forums are full of it, and SWoR forums are full of it. It's life.

ESO was supposed to be a game that will be able to handle large number of players. Majority of those that find PVP lacking, are still waiting for that ESO.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

They need to implement a few changes at once:

First the server should stop counting victory points from midnight pacific time until 3 pm Eastern. That way night capping cannot help winning the campaign.

Second impulse should be blockable.

Third they should implement the anti zergball bomb they talked about 2 months ago so if people clustered close together they would instantly die if enough did it.

GreyBrow · December 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to implement a few changes at once:

First the server should stop counting victory points from midnight pacific time until 3 pm Eastern. That way night capping cannot help winning the campaign.

Second impulse should be blockable.

Third they should implement the anti zergball bomb they talked about 2 months ago so if people clustered close together they would instantly die if enough did it.

Two words:

chain lightning, with an unlimited number of bounces per cast.

Would finally give sorcs a viable class specific AoE and end this zerg ball foolishness all at once.

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ How about it buddy? You could finally turn sorcs into the elementalists that they should be (the lightning version of DKs)

Francescolg · December 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Third they should implement the anti zergball bomb they talked about 2 months ago so if people clustered close together they would instantly die if enough did it.

We already have VERY effective anti-zerg(-ball) tactics:
- The ultimate from the mage guild / Meteor (very good CC but triggers immunity timers)
- Caltrops
- Siege Weapons, especially Oil and Meat (you just need 2-3 guys that coordinate that combined with 2xfire, 1-2xoil, 2xmeatbag = overkill if you know where to set the target)
- "Unbreakable" CC (roll dodge req.), especially ROOT effects like Burning Talons/Bow/etc.

You best use effects with DoT, so that purge-spamming is not going to help your enemies (2xmeatbag)

Again: just a party with 2-3 friends can kick as_es even without using vamp-/other "fotm-setups". Just coordinate siege and if done rightly you have 100% chances against zergs. Even the most skilled leader, who decides to focus your meatbag, can be outmaneuvred by simply placing the siege weapons in a way that if one gets attacked - the others go on shooting (triangulation).

You just need to distance from the "max dmg AE"-way of thinking and ask yourself: whick CC's are most effective? Of course good groups have a "bard", a templar who keeps spamming Rapid/Charging M. and Radiant Aura.
Purge is no problem if you keep enough negative effects on your enemies.

..and this is why Immovable ist a must-have skill in one or the other pvp group :disagree:

TheBull · December 2014

Francescolg wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Third they should implement the anti zergball bomb they talked about 2 months ago so if people clustered close together they would instantly die if enough did it.

We already have VERY effective anti-zerg(-ball) tactics:
- The ultimate from the mage guild / Meteor (very good CC but triggers immunity timers)
- Caltrops
- Siege Weapons, especially Oil and Meat (you just need 2-3 guys that coordinate that combined with 2xfire, 1-2xoil, 2xmeatbag = overkill if you know where to set the target)
- "Unbreakable" CC (roll dodge req.), especially ROOT effects like Burning Talons/Bow/etc.

You best use effects with DoT, so that purge-spamming is not going to help your enemies (2xmeatbag)

Again: just a party with 2-3 friends can kick as_es even without using vamp-/other "fotm-setups". Just coordinate siege and if done rightly you have 100% chances against zergs. Even the most skilled leader, who decides to focus your meatbag, can be outmaneuvred by simply placing the siege weapons in a way that if one gets attacked - the others go on shooting (triangulation).

You just need to distance from the "max dmg AE"-way of thinking and ask yourself: whick CC's are most effective? Of course good groups have a "bard", a templar who keeps spamming Rapid/Charging M. and Radiant Aura.
Purge is no problem if you keep enough negative effects on your enemies.

..and this is why Immovable ist a must-have skill in one or the other pvp group :disagree:

Purge eliminates all siege equipment. In these zerg ball groups there maybe as many as 6 or 7 people with purge on there bar. DoTs dot even tick.

I've said for awhile now purge is too strong.

Rook_Master · December 2014

Francescolg wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Third they should implement the anti zergball bomb they talked about 2 months ago so if people clustered close together they would instantly die if enough did it.

We already have VERY effective anti-zerg(-ball) tactics:
- The ultimate from the mage guild / Meteor (very good CC but triggers immunity timers)

Yeah, too bad RS reflects Meteor. Also, the fact that everyone is running Immovable and will lol when you try this.

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

Blud wrote: »

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Remember that key devs came from DAoC...

You are what you eat.

This was one reason a lot of people thought ESO would have decent pvp and be able to break away from a lot of the faction balance problems of 2-faction games and endgame pve raiding/gear grind. I never played DAoC, but I've read a lot of posts by people saying it was legendary and the best game ever, etc. etc. I was hoping some of that would have rubbed off on ESO pvp.

But to put it plainly, it's broken. I don't think we are going to hear any more about it from ZOS till after the holidays. And by the time steps are actually taken to do anything, not till spring at the earliest. And by the time those fixes (if they come) are implemented, they will need to be tweaked and balanced, etc. So not till summer?

DAoC was NOT the be-all and end-all of PvP; it had its fanbois who hyped it, like all games have fanbois hyping their favorite games, but DAoC also had its fair share of problems.

Rose-colored glasses and misty memories of the past may hide the problems, but they were there: exploits, class imbalance, lag, and empty zones as players leveled up, leaving lower levels empty. PvP was fun if you were there on the leading edge; if you weren't, like all games it had its problems.

Da Sandman · December 2014

I don't think happy people come to the forums.

wafcatb14_ESO · December 2014

My guild is large as it is a gaming community , made up of several guilds all either allied or taged in the main guild , IE. we have a guild tag that repesents the gaming community which most members are in , as well as 20 or more other guilds that wear their guild tag but are apart of our community and join us for events etc .

We are in several games at the same time. however when ESO launched we had 1300 of us join for ESO , now 8 months later we are down to 190 members still playing ESO but never have more than 30 on at any one time .

The 1100 members that quit ESO are still guilded but not playing this game they went back to whatever games they were playing prior to ESO or are taking a break untill a better game releases .

Thechemicals · December 2014

Gotcha

. Didnt realize this was your thread. See ya.

btw, you were moderated.

ZOS_ShannonM · December 2014

Hello, Folks.
We wanted to inform you that we have moved this thread to the Alliance War section, because it was a better fit for that category.
If you have any questions regarding this, please let us know.

WRX_South_Ga · December 2014

Last night, I noticed each pop at 3 bars at various times(DC being the faction with the lowest pop on average). Before I went to bed, AD and EP had 3 bars of pop each, and DC was still at 2 bars. I think the game can recover if the lag/crashes gets fixed within the next month.

Aoe_Barbecue · December 2014

The population threshold drop was actually a great fix. I have heard reports of minimal lag. This seems like a very straight forward temporary solution while a more lasting solution can be crafted.

So ... why wait until now? If this were implemented sooner there could have been another competitive server because people will only put up with 100+ queues for so long.

Agrippa_Invisus · December 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

The population threshold drop was actually a great fix. I have heard reports of minimal lag. This seems like a very straight forward temporary solution while a more lasting solution can be crafted.

So ... why wait until now? If this were implemented sooner there could have been another competitive server because people will only put up with 100+ queues for so long.

My guess?

Ego.

It's a bit of an admission of failure. They don't know what the fix is, so their solution is to make it impossible to lag the campaign.

Subtomik · December 2014

My guess is this is why they still will not release how many people are allowed per faction in cyrodiil. they made grand claims of what exactly?(serious, wasnt around for beta) 100's per side? thousands at once?

it cant be fun to say "oh ya, our dream of grand scale pvp works, as long as its like 100 per side" lol

Agrippa_Invisus · December 2014

Subtomik wrote: »

My guess is this is why they still will not release how many people are allowed per faction in cyrodiil. they made grand claims of what exactly?(serious, wasnt around for beta) 100's per side? thousands at once?

it cant be fun to say "oh ya, our dream of grand scale pvp works, as long as its like 100 per side" lol

Cyrodiil, aka a really big Alterac Valley.

WRX_South_Ga · December 2014

Subtomik wrote: »

My guess is this is why they still will not release how many people are allowed per faction in cyrodiil. they made grand claims of what exactly?(serious, wasnt around for beta) 100's per side? thousands at once?

it cant be fun to say "oh ya, our dream of grand scale pvp works, as long as its like 100 per side" lol

It'd be nice to see numbers. The system of bars as an indicator of population is so wonky, and it only furthers conspiracy theories.

Ifthir_ESO · December 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

I think whoever makes the executive development decisions at ZoS is making really bad ones, in all honesty.

their decision is to ship console rather than fix critical issues for paying customers.

Its not going to change. All you can do is cancel your sub to show them you arent OK with that decision.

Vote with your dollars. It is the only thing they understand.

SoulScream · December 2014

I suggested lowering the pop caps months ago. I think it's really lame they waited this length of time and it took this much drama to have it happen.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · December 2014

My face is getting sore from all the facepalming I keep doing.

Do people remember when the first cycle of the new server setup hit, how Thorn and Chill were poplocked and people were clamoring for a new competitive server despite there being Haderus and Bow of Shadows available? No one wanted to touch Haderus because 'oooh it's the AD buff server can't *** them off". Players had the same aversion to Bow apparently.

So then Zeni said "okay, people don't like a vet only campaign so we'll remove that and add Azura's Star, a new 30 day campaign". And the people rejoiced now there was a new 30 day for people to overflow into.

Then it got turned into a buff server. Haderus remained a buff server. Chill became a buff server because despite there being another 30 day campaign everyone and their actual mom insisted on crowding into Thornblade because reasons. And despite the plea for common sense that players spread out among the other servers to balance out populations, the majority refused to do so because "nurr people need buffs for trials and stuff nurr" I say with the most nasaly disgusting wheezy gurgly nerd voice imaginable.

If anyone's to blame for population imbalances and lag, it's players refusing to bite the bullet and try out other options. Zeni could've addressed things sooner and they should have. The lip synching and lighting were obviously NOT priorities. If anyone's familiar with FF14 ARR, you know how the lead dev Yoshi and his team moved literal mountains to fix everything. They might've had more resources available to them, but regardless they did everything they could. Zeni should exert the same effort and start burning midnight oil to troubleshoot rampant bugs and performance issues. I bet players wouldn't care if Imperial city was delayed until NEXT Christmas if performance issues were fine tuned to perfection.

But it still boils down to the fact that players were given a safety valve and refused to use it. Try reading the in-game fable "Almalexia and the Mudcrab". Fits quite well I'd say.

Cody · December 2014

PvP has devolved into a lag filled mess fit only for exploiters, zerg balls, and OP builds; or people like me who go at it anyway just for the heck of it.(plus iv already done all the vet content, i have no more PvE to do save trials)

I am a PvPer at heart(at least when it comes to ESO) this game was advertised on its PvP... its the sole reason i bought the game in the first place. I got off of PvP fter the horrendus mess that was the lighting patch, to do PvE and level up. I come back.... mass rollbacks, lag, OP build dminance... exploiter dominance.... horrendus population issues..... and whatever else i have not listed.

PvP is still in this state because all of ZOZhas willingly ingored PvP for the last 5-7 months, and only focused on PvE/new content.

if things continue this way, then PvP will die out. Pessimistic, but true

BRogueNZ · December 2014

I think some confuse the 'zerg' with a good group that knows what its doing, they bleed out everything the code lets them get away with.
They're painful but what can you say.. learn not to play?

For me the AvA killer happens when its anything from a couple raid groups or half the freakin poplocked faction.
Not so much outplayed, just run the fkover.
Down to 5fps...skill bars stops responding, ping goes to 1000+.. it becomes a blur of particle effects and body parts

Sooner or later the comet of doom (seemingly unaffected) smothers you and you are left to spam your biggest and baddest, just hoping you and a few pop out the other side alive. You look down and pinch yourself before desperately trying to revive enough mates to defend against all the stragglers and NB's that you know are lurking at the arse end of it all.

HOW DARE YOU FART IN OUR GENERAL DIRECTION!!!

........ negate, rapid maneuverer's ,shield stacked, WTF moar Bats, fire ring spam, elemental walls, Dk's dropping their standards all at once and somewhere out there at least a dozen Lethal Arrow's are heading your way quickly followed by a barrage of Posion Injections, streaking (I wish they would put some clothes on) mages, all the time synergies are being popped off all over your face

sigh

...off to quest, pick herb and collect plump worms so I can just chill out fishing, day dreaming of being a real pvp'r one day while my faction representatives mourn in Cryodil. I will return as will many when our population is also locked and we can return the favour and boost our egomorales..such is the way the worm turns...

Anyway, I apologise for my ramble. I'm dead in the mud just outside of Faregyl and have lost the will to re-live. That can I can't be arsed riding for 20 minutes to catch up with my group who will probably wipe for the third time pushing shite up hill defending something from said shite.
Some kind soul tried to res me earlier. He remained for some time then he left looking a little confused as to why his miracle was being denied. Thanks but no thanks buddy.

Ok. No I'm not.
I actually can't even be bothered playing today.
I probably will though.
damn pvp
damn game

Xsorus · December 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

I think whoever makes the executive development decisions at ZoS is making really bad ones, in all honesty.

their decision is to ship console rather than fix critical issues for paying customers.

Its not going to change. All you can do is cancel your sub to show them you arent OK with that decision.

Vote with your dollars. It is the only thing they understand.

So your solution to them not being fast enough is to quit the game so they run out of money and you never get the change ya want cause the game is gone.

Cody · December 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

I think whoever makes the executive development decisions at ZoS is making really bad ones, in all honesty.

their decision is to ship console rather than fix critical issues for paying customers.

Its not going to change. All you can do is cancel your sub to show them you arent OK with that decision.

Vote with your dollars. It is the only thing they understand.

So your solution to them not being fast enough is to quit the game so they run out of money and you never get the change ya want cause the game is gone.

i myself am holding out until the champion system. I have a feeling ZOS may end up having quite a few fixes with it.
or i hope:/ its the one reason im still here

k2blader · December 2014

Artemis wrote: »

I thought PvP without camps was more fun, no? Looks like players voted with their online

I still think removal of FCs has contributed to the decline. A lot of the hardcore PvPers remaining seem to think no FCs is just so wonderful, but as a not-so-hardcore player I have seen and felt how it has slowed down gameplay, resulted in less opportunity for action (unless one is into depressingly boring zerg waves back and forth between Alessia-Sej-BRK or Roe-Nikel-Ash), and ultimately made the map more stale and predictable.

Modified FCs would allow for more opportunities for strategic endeavors deeper behind enemy lines, which would inject some dynamism (read: fun) back into the map. It would also allow smaller "more skilled" groups in a faction to have a greater impact on outcomes. I mention this only because maybe that'll help stop the griping about PUGs by groups that think they are somehow held back by them.

Other than FC removal repercussions, the bugs, exploits, spam, pop imbalances, lag, and irksome individuals :-P are what decrease my interest in continuing to play. Lag is fairly low on the list because I find the other things more aggravating.