ZOS and roleplaying

nerevarine1138 · December 2014

I'm not sure I buy any of this argument.

For starters, who said that RP can only happen if other players are around? I had plenty of great RP moments in the single-player series. Better, indeed, than any attempted RP with a bunch of people who think that pseudo-Shakespearean talk constitutes "roleplaying".

More importantly though, the game designers can't really add much that's specifically for RPers. The game is already there for you. You simply have to stay in character, which is not something that game design can help you with.

driosketch · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

The ONE thing I have seen them do, and for which I am duly grateful, is respond when they get a bunch of reports about a player griefing RP. They actually do respond and remove them. And that's freaking HUGE.

And yes, they'll send a GM to your RP event if you ask. Also, huge. It was great when they made a bunch of NPC emotes available to players. I love them. But they still need to add a lot more.

But, aside from GM presence, how does this game support RP events?

Wait, I'm sorry but can we stop the thread right here. RP has GMs at their beck and call? Why does this thread have such a pessimistic tone? Glass half full people!

Oh the things they do right they do very right. Credit where it is due. But it's always a little sad to me that what roleplayers want is usually really small compared to...an entire new zone dedicated to group end game content... entire new areas for PvP activities... tons and tons of new armors to feed the ever present demand for more and better gear...

And then we're told to hush and quit being so selfish if we say, "Hey, we'd really like to be able to sit on chairs." Heavens forbid we should ask for more hairstyles before every single class is perfectly balanced for PvP.

Ahem. The glass MIGHT be half empty.

No it's not. This is pretty much taking for granted everything they have done for an activity, that by it's nature is mainly player driven, and turning around to say, "Well sure, but what have you done for us lately?"

You haven't even outlined what you would really like to see, aside from a little more intractability. Housing doesn't count. It has uses outside of RP just as all the other immersion additions have been hand waved away because they aren't strictly RP oriented.

MornaBaine · December 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I'm not sure I buy any of this argument.

For starters, who said that RP can only happen if other players are around? I had plenty of great RP moments in the single-player series. Better, indeed, than any attempted RP with a bunch of people who think that pseudo-Shakespearean talk constitutes "roleplaying".

More importantly though, the game designers can't really add much that's specifically for RPers. The game is already there for you. You simply have to stay in character, which is not something that game design can help you with.

Obviously there are different interpretations of what roleplay really is. That much is becoming apparent. Perhaps having grown up in the infancy of pen and paper RPGs has colored my view. But I really do see immersion and roleplay as two different things though the former certainly contributes to the quality of the latter.

That said, I DO think the developers CAN give us things that contribute to roleplay...by making it easier for us to "live" in the world by adding small scale immersion things like the ability to sit on chairs, more emotes and more costumes, pets, etc. Adding to immersion is very helpful to roleplay. But ALSO they can make it easier for players to interact with each other. Less wandering NPCs that constantly path into you, the ability to SHUT OFF the damned bard, and the removal of chairs we CAN'T sit in until they manage to figure out how we CAN sit in them, these things would be very helpful in creating a roleplay conducive space. Some areas where there AREN'T any mobs, like various shrines to the Divines and even some of the Daedric Princes would be amazing to have access to. Dueling ability would be hugely helpful to roleplayers and I hope they really will add it once the Justice System is in place. And ultimately, I hope they'll one day allow player GMs to spawn mobs of their choice so we can create our own roleplay events that actually feature combat that fits in with our storylines. Player housing, of course, is extremely desirable for roleplayers, as is advanced character customization, appearance change, name and even sex change. None of those things affect stats and the ABILITY to do them already exists and just needs to be made accessible. I love creating badass villains for my guildies to oppose. Often, that results in the badass villain's death. How nice it would be to be able to "recycle" that high level character into a different avatar with a different name when I need a NEW villain for a plot!

RDMyers65b14_ESO · December 2014

"nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Better, indeed, than any attempted RP with a bunch of people who think that pseudo-Shakespearean talk constitutes "roleplaying". for RPers.

Sorry, this snippet has me giggling as I have never seen anything like that on the game or in any RP in over 25 years of RPing. The last time it was at a LARP and my eldest was a baby. I have been RPing on the game since beta. Mind you, I have seen some substandard RP from some of the Twilight wannabes in the Dregs but even if they don't know how to pose, they don't think it is a Shakespearian festival.

MornaBaine · December 2014

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

"nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Better, indeed, than any attempted RP with a bunch of people who think that pseudo-Shakespearean talk constitutes "roleplaying". for RPers.

Sorry, this snippet has me giggling as I have never seen anything like that on the game or in any RP in over 25 years of RPing. The last time it was at a LARP and my eldest was a baby. I have been RPing on the game since beta. Mind you, I have seen some substandard RP from some of the Twilight wannabes in the Dregs but even if they don't know how to pose, they don't think it is a Shakespearian festival.

I actually HAVE seen people using "thee" and "thou" in the Dregs...and, of course, doing it completely wrong. But that was some time ago and I've not seen it happen since. There's no shortage of bad RP out there to make fun of so I guess it's a fair point. But I don't think it's any worse than the juvenile stuff we see here in the forums or the antics of the lolz kidz we see in game.

MornaBaine · December 2014

You know, one of the interesting things that was in the word salad that comprised Sage's response about roleplaying was this, "... where players can own property in the game or something like that ..." Does this perhaps HINT at the possibility of player housing? Because right now, unless you count my horse, I have NO property owned by my characters in this game. So what did he mean?

Let the wild speculation begin!

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

Well 8 months ago they said there will be player housing but probably not until 1-2 year anniversary. So player housing has already been confirmed.

MornaBaine · December 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Well 8 months ago they said there will be player housing but probably not until 1-2 year anniversary. So player housing has already been confirmed.

At the year anniversary, I can deal. But if it isn't in by then I'll likely be gone before they manage it. I wouldn't say that about most MMOs but player housing is a cornerstone of the ES franchise. It SHOULD have been in from jump.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

Heishi · December 2014

I was contemplating the whole being able to turn to face other RPers and such. Then I went through a Harborage quest, it dawned on me, the NPCs suffer from the same issue. They were gesturing to each other but not facing each other.

So really it's not just a slur on RPers, it's just an unrefined part of the mechanics for all characters pcs and npcs alike.

civilizedsavage · December 2014

I like this thread. For the most part it stays on topic and doesn't have a lot of rage or rudeness. Most of what I have to say has already been said, but I'd like to echo it anyway because I am passionate about it and perhaps if we all speak up about what RP is and isn't to us, someone will take note.

I like to be in a dedicated and monogamous relationship with my MMO. At this point, however, if I see another MMO with big muscles and a handsome smile, I'm going to be inclined to check it out further because ESO is neglecting to fulfill certain needs. Housing is a huge issue. Just getting folks together in a place to RP that isn't completely overflowing with potential trolls is a nightmare. You have to consider levels, instances, who has done what quest. If I want to RP in a place I've cleared of mobs I have to be sure everyone else has too, which leaves out the ability for anyone to make a new low level character to fulfill a role most times. Then after going through sometimes weeks of planning a mission or event, you get some guy named Darth Conan or something equally absurd that gets naked and dances on your table.

We NEED housing. At a bare minimum we need houses or even rooms we can rent as a private instance that only the group members can join. Ideally, I'd love something like a pocket plane that you can build a house within or set it up as training grounds or as a mission scenario because we are putting together quests and missions all the time to keep people interested and invested. Help us help you with player retention. At this point, a lot of hope would be renewed if the subject was addressed and there was a clear answer as to if we were receiving housing and a timeline.

When the game is in its transitions as it is now, its extremely difficult to keep people playing. A lot of the folks in my guild are logging on for RP and that's about it because they are frustrated with leveling, don't care about doing AD and EP content, can't do much in Craglorn and PvP is a mess.

Some things that are asked for are beyond the realm of reason, such as the ability for players to insert their own lore books into the world or perhaps even interactive emotes such as hugging someone (because of size and scaling issues making that nightmare) but many others have mentioned things that seem like they would be absolutely feasible such as name and cosmetic changes, and additional costumes and pets. People would even pay for these things in addition to their subscription fees.

I'm baffled as to how Guild kiosks are an RP tool beyond the point of looking to see if there is a particular item up for sale to complete a costume.

I hope one day that we'll be able to see people's head magnetize to where they are looking, and I really wish we had the ability to turn like we did in beta by zooming in and turning in your desired direction.

In short, I want continue to enjoy ESO exclusively for many years to come, but there is an undeniable difference between what RP'ers want and what they think RP'ers want.

MornaBaine · December 2014

Heishi wrote: »

I was contemplating the whole being able to turn to face other RPers and such. Then I went through a Harborage quest, it dawned on me, the NPCs suffer from the same issue. They were gesturing to each other but not facing each other.

So really it's not just a slur on RPers, it's just an unrefined part of the mechanics for all characters pcs and npcs alike.

This doesn't actually make me feel better. LOL But hey, now that we have "improved" facial animations NPCs can bug their eyes out at me like they're possessed! TOTALLY what I was hoping for to add to my immersion! *insert eyerolling emote here*

MornaBaine · December 2014

civilizedsavage wrote: »

I like this thread. For the most part it stays on topic and doesn't have a lot of rage or rudeness. Most of what I have to say has already been said, but I'd like to echo it anyway because I am passionate about it and perhaps if we all speak up about what RP is and isn't to us, someone will take note.

I like to be in a dedicated and monogamous relationship with my MMO. At this point, however, if I see another MMO with big muscles and a handsome smile, I'm going to be inclined to check it out further because ESO is neglecting to fulfill certain needs. Housing is a huge issue. Just getting folks together in a place to RP that isn't completely overflowing with potential trolls is a nightmare. You have to consider levels, instances, who has done what quest. If I want to RP in a place I've cleared of mobs I have to be sure everyone else has too, which leaves out the ability for anyone to make a new low level character to fulfill a role most times. Then after going through sometimes weeks of planning a mission or event, you get some guy named Darth Conan or something equally absurd that gets naked and dances on your table.

We NEED housing. At a bare minimum we need houses or even rooms we can rent as a private instance that only the group members can join. Ideally, I'd love something like a pocket plane that you can build a house within or set it up as training grounds or as a mission scenario because we are putting together quests and missions all the time to keep people interested and invested. Help us help you with player retention. At this point, a lot of hope would be renewed if the subject was addressed and there was a clear answer as to if we were receiving housing and a timeline.

When the game is in its transitions as it is now, its extremely difficult to keep people playing. A lot of the folks in my guild are logging on for RP and that's about it because they are frustrated with leveling, don't care about doing AD and EP content, can't do much in Craglorn and PvP is a mess.

Some things that are asked for are beyond the realm of reason, such as the ability for players to insert their own lore books into the world or perhaps even interactive emotes such as hugging someone (because of size and scaling issues making that nightmare) but many others have mentioned things that seem like they would be absolutely feasible such as name and cosmetic changes, and additional costumes and pets. People would even pay for these things in addition to their subscription fees.

I'm baffled as to how Guild kiosks are an RP tool beyond the point of looking to see if there is a particular item up for sale to complete a costume.

I hope one day that we'll be able to see people's head magnetize to where they are looking, and I really wish we had the ability to turn like we did in beta by zooming in and turning in your desired direction.

In short, I want continue to enjoy ESO exclusively for many years to come, but there is an undeniable difference between what RP'ers want and what they think RP'ers want.

You know, your post brings up a lot of things for me. Besides my utter agreement. I quit Age of Conan because their idiot game director was openly hostile towards RP and actually closed down the only RP server the game had... which at the time was a much more robust server than the straight PvP server they merged it with. But even with this open hostility towards roleplayers this jerk displayed that game had MUCH more going for it than this one does when it comes to roleplay. You could rent a private room at the inn. But, even better, ALL dungeons were instanced. That meant ONLY your group would be in there. And there were some AMAZING dungeons! So you could get a group of people together, go into a low level dungeon, clear it, and then it was all yours for roleplaying events. And once a mob was 10 levels below you, they wouldn't even attack you any longer. There was a place filled with undead that was this awesome vast library. My Necromancer made it her home. It was PERFECT! She could invite people over and wander among the stacks while her "minions" bustled about. Oh and if using one of those venues didn't appeal to you.... they had guild cities. And the guildcities were badass. You could have special vendors that sold costumes and pets. They even put in an arena so you could PvP with your own guildies. But because of the instancing that game was SO MUCH better for roleplayers than this one. Makes me really sad.

Oh AND they had not one but TWO hugging emotes! Sure there were clipping/merging issues with them, but mostly they were still darned cute!

So yeah ZOS, housing, figure it out!

civilizedsavage · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

You know, your post brings up a lot of things for me. Besides my utter agreement. I quit Age of Conan because their idiot game director was openly hostile towards RP and actually closed down the only RP server the game had... which at the time was a much more robust server than the straight PvP server they merged it with. But even with this open hostility towards roleplayers this jerk displayed that game had MUCH more going for it than this one does when it comes to roleplay. You could rent a private room at the inn. But, even better, ALL dungeons were instanced. That meant ONLY your group would be in there. And there were some AMAZING dungeons! So you could get a group of people together, go into a low level dungeon, clear it, and then it was all yours for roleplaying events. And once a mob was 10 levels below you, they wouldn't even attack you any longer. There was a place filled with undead that was this awesome vast library. My Necromancer made it her home. It was PERFECT! She could invite people over and wander among the stacks while her "minions" bustled about. Oh and if using one of those venues didn't appeal to you.... they had guild cities. And the guildcities were badass. You could have special vendors that sold costumes and pets. They even put in an arena so you could PvP with your own guildies. But because of the instancing that game was SO MUCH better for roleplayers than this one. Makes me really sad. Oh AND they had not one but TWO hugging emotes! Sure there were clipping/merging issues with them, but mostly they were still darned cute!

So yeah ZOS, housing, figure it out!

I know exactly what you're talking about, and agree with all of it. In AoC we utilized dungeons, rented rooms and guild cities for years. Here in ESO, for a little while, we could at least get 4 people together and run BC or CoH or whatever, and when cleared, use the instance un-harassed for RP. 4 people isn't much, but we made the best of it. Now, that's not so much of an option anymore in a lot of cases with the scaling.

Most RP'ers are incredibly flexible, creative and adaptive. It could be a lot more complicated than I imagine it being, but I think so many people would be delighted with the option to spawn unpopulated instances, even if they were gold sinks. A house in the Alik'r for an hour? An instanced ship for a maritime adventure? A fiery mini plane to worship Daedra in? Yes, please!

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Zero support for roleplaying.....hmmm....

I'm curious. Which online games have more emotes supported by mo-cap? I honestly don't know.

How many racial motifs do we have? After 7 years, I know Lord of the Rings Online had more styles and had support for cosmetic clothing separate from tactical.

We have a real problem in this game with forced emotes but, again, it has taken other games years to tackle this one.

ESO has regular and elaborate RP events. I've posted a few videos of them here but there's a nifty You Tube channel that features a nice collection:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBkuyXwnKwFTF3gWAdnZ8tw

I'm not saying it all hunky dorey for RP in this game but it's a decent start. Yes, we need to be able to at least tie back our hair but I'd take issue with there being zero support here....

The ONE thing I have seen them do, and for which I am duly grateful, is respond when they get a bunch of reports about a player griefing RP. They actually do respond and remove them. And that's freaking HUGE.

And yes, they'll send a GM to your RP event if you ask. Also, huge. It was great when they made a bunch of NPC emotes available to players. I love them. But they still need to add a lot more.

But, aside from GM presence, how does this game support RP events? If I am gamemastering an RP event I want the ability to say, "Hey, I want to drop 3 Daedroths here." I want to be able to use the game world as a backdrop for my guild's own RP storylines. I want to be able to say, "At 9:00PM EST on Tuesday Dec. 5th the farm in Northpoint is going to be overrun by bloodfiends. Oh and once they're cleared, you'll have to deal with a master vampire boss." And I wanna name that boss and choose their sex. Yeah, that is TOTAL pie in the sky for an MMO and I've only even heard of ONE MMO that would do that kind of thing for you...and it isn't around anymore I don't think. But THAT is where I want to see MMOs head in the future.

But for now...I'd settle for housing, even minimal housing. But that's not even "on the roadmap."

That's hardly role playing. You want control of the game for your purpose, well I guess that is roleplaying in another sense.

I roleplay all the time. This is not even my favorite game to do that in, Stalker is my home and I am a Master Stalker in that world.

I play first person except the horses, which is fine I hunt mats from them.

I think very differently when I'm playing my Vampire Witch than when playing my new Shadowscale potion guzzling fool. A nearly 1000 year old High Elf Vampire has very very different point of view compared to a 30 year old Argonian Shadowscale.

In fact the entire point of my gameplay is role playing. I have a life for the rest.

Still I do understand the RP crowd wants a place to act out and I'm not particularly hostile to that idea. I do want the game devs to put this well back on the burner though because there is so much we need before that.

My Vampire Witch has a perch outside of Rawl'kha she calls home. I can't hang her upside down and that should be a priority, those bats in Malabal Tor can do it, ... well maybe not.

MornaBaine · December 2014

civilizedsavage wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You know, your post brings up a lot of things for me. Besides my utter agreement. I quit Age of Conan because their idiot game director was openly hostile towards RP and actually closed down the only RP server the game had... which at the time was a much more robust server than the straight PvP server they merged it with. But even with this open hostility towards roleplayers this jerk displayed that game had MUCH more going for it than this one does when it comes to roleplay. You could rent a private room at the inn. But, even better, ALL dungeons were instanced. That meant ONLY your group would be in there. And there were some AMAZING dungeons! So you could get a group of people together, go into a low level dungeon, clear it, and then it was all yours for roleplaying events. And once a mob was 10 levels below you, they wouldn't even attack you any longer. There was a place filled with undead that was this awesome vast library. My Necromancer made it her home. It was PERFECT! She could invite people over and wander among the stacks while her "minions" bustled about. Oh and if using one of those venues didn't appeal to you.... they had guild cities. And the guildcities were badass. You could have special vendors that sold costumes and pets. They even put in an arena so you could PvP with your own guildies. But because of the instancing that game was SO MUCH better for roleplayers than this one. Makes me really sad. Oh AND they had not one but TWO hugging emotes! Sure there were clipping/merging issues with them, but mostly they were still darned cute!

So yeah ZOS, housing, figure it out!

I know exactly what you're talking about, and agree with all of it. In AoC we utilized dungeons, rented rooms and guild cities for years. Here in ESO, for a little while, we could at least get 4 people together and run BC or CoH or whatever, and when cleared, use the instance un-harassed for RP. 4 people isn't much, but we made the best of it. Now, that's not so much of an option anymore in a lot of cases with the scaling.

Most RP'ers are incredibly flexible, creative and adaptive. It could be a lot more complicated than I imagine it being, but I think so many people would be delighted with the option to spawn unpopulated instances, even if they were gold sinks. A house in the Alik'r for an hour? An instanced ship for a maritime adventure? A fiery mini plane to worship Daedra in? Yes, please!

Oh to be able to spawn unpopulated instances!!!! THAT would be a dream come true. Do this and I could pretty cheerfully continue to wait for housing.

MornaBaine · December 2014

So what would you like to see implemmented that WOULD enhance actually roleplaying, as in roleplaying that we engage in with other players?

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

I want the ability to get drunk. Straight up. If I drink a bunch of ale in a tavern with my homies, I'm gonna be turnt up and I want the game to SHOW me I went hard lol

Akselmo · December 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I want the ability to get drunk. Straight up. If I drink a bunch of ale in a tavern with my homies, I'm gonna be turnt up and I want the game to SHOW me I went hard lol

Heh, that would be funny. A wobbly camera effect and a different, drunken walk cycle would be probably a good way to do it.

bellanca6561n · December 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I'm not sure I buy any of this argument.

For starters, who said that RP can only happen if other players are around? I had plenty of great RP moments in the single-player series. Better, indeed, than any attempted RP with a bunch of people who think that pseudo-Shakespearean talk constitutes "roleplaying".

More importantly though, the game designers can't really add much that's specifically for RPers. The game is already there for you. You simply have to stay in character, which is not something that game design can help you with.

Two things.

First is the old does the tree that falls in the forest make a sound if there is no one there to hear it question. Or, more reasonably, can a person play a role if the only audience for the performance is the person playing the role?

In a multiplayer game the answer is no. If you are then what you're playing is a single player game with a network connection.

Second, I don't know where folks got the idea that roleplaying involves Shakespeare, talking like a character from a Shakespeare play, or anything of the kind. I suppose if the game were Elizabethan England Online...

To ask how game developers support roleplay is like asking what an acting troupe needs to stage a play.

Here's the followup to that Ashlanders' attempt on Sebaya Indoril's life. Nobody is speaking in any manner other than suits the setting. This is also an active quest area and other players are going about their business too....though some are clearly a bit puzzled at the goings on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oauuHT-kPwY

Sindala · December 2014

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Second, I don't know where folks got the idea that roleplaying involves Shakespeare, talking like a character from a Shakespeare play, or anything of the kind. I suppose if the game were Elizabethan England Online...

That is straight out of the Ultima Online RP history Books.
Was set with a ye olde English speak and it's stuck in RP infamy ever since

GatheredMyst · December 2014

I think that there's something being lost in this entire conversation. The OP essentially is saying that Zenimax doesn't understand what roleplay is, and is asking that they be informed of the true definition so that they address it accurately.

However, I believe that there's something important to distinguish here. He isn't neglecting Roleplay, or Roleplayers. He is neglecting your particular type of roleplay.

I want to start by saying that i'm not at all attacking one roleplay style over the over. What i'm doing is acknowledging that there is more than one roleplay style , and that none of them are "wrong". Sage addresses one type. It also just so happens to be my type.

I don't do Tavern Styled Roleplay. At all. I think it's boring. My experience is not enhanced by having more emotes, or by having the ability to sit in a chair. I come from the MMO RP Era of EverQuest, where imagination was key, and where if you wanted a storyline to work or function, you had to be creative with text to get it done. It was also a game that heavily emphasized working within the boundaries of the mechanics that were given to us. In other words: IC PVE was huge. You went places, and you did things. You played the game, and laced your stories into the world. My plots and events never really involved sitting in the world somewhere, and I have never in a game felt like because I can't spawn a mob somewhere that my roleplay was diminished, or the studio "hated roleplayers" or "was against roleplayers" because they didn't provide me with these tools. I bring this up simply to address the fact that there are, indeed, sub-sections of roleplayers, not implying that this is the particular type of roleplay that you spend most of your time with.

With that said, though, what Sage talks about is spot on to me. I remember him talking about the Justice System being a huge boon to roleplay, and I absolutely agree. At last I can have my character be a vampire hunter. A real friggin' vampire hunter. If someone's a stage four vampire just sitting around lauding their curse? My character can utilize the justice system to exact Tamriel-styled .. well.. justice on said character.

To me, that's Roleplay. However, if I were to bring that up in some circles who consider themselves hardcore roleplayers? That'd be griefing.

And no, i'm not some powergaming, l33t speaking, doesn't-mark-their-chat style RPer. I write backstories. I write plots. I share them with my friends and guildies in game.

Why am I posting something like this? To simply try to broaden perspective. I do believe that, yes, Zenimax could and should always expand immersive tools like emoting, dueling, etc. But i'm also saying that they're not necessarily ignoring roleplayers either. What they're doing is implementing tools that everyone will enjoy, that also have a strong potential for roleplay. A certain section of roleplayers might not be getting all the tools they might like to have, but not all roleplayers are tavern-styled roleplayers. There's nothing wrong with those who choose to roleplay that way. But understand that them choosing to invest as much development assets on the largest segment of their playerbase isn't "ignoring" or "hating" roleplayers.

It's honestly up to us to make our own fun in this game. The fact that they even give us the time of day is an enormous step up from what other game companies do. They even go beyond that in my opinion. I mean, they're showing segments of video from TheHumanFloyd on ESO Live.

Just trying to respond to a few lines that I saw at the beginning of this thread. Honestly, as a hardcore roleplayer, i'm happy with what ZOS is doing.

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

GatheredMyst wrote: »

I think that there's something being lost in this entire conversation. The OP essentially is saying that Zenimax doesn't understand what roleplay is, and is asking that they be informed of the true definition so that they address it accurately.

However, I believe that there's something important to distinguish here. He isn't neglecting Roleplay, or Roleplayers. He is neglecting your particular type of roleplay.

I want to start by saying that i'm not at all attacking one roleplay style over the over. What i'm doing is acknowledging that there is more than one roleplay style , and that none of them are "wrong". Sage addresses one type. It also just so happens to be my type.

I don't do Tavern Styled Roleplay. At all. I think it's boring. My experience is not enhanced by having more emotes, or by having the ability to sit in a chair. I come from the MMO RP Era of EverQuest, where imagination was key, and where if you wanted a storyline to work or function, you had to be creative with text to get it done. It was also a game that heavily emphasized working within the boundaries of the mechanics that were given to us. In other words: IC PVE was huge. You went places, and you did things. You played the game, and laced your stories into the world. My plots and events never really involved sitting in the world somewhere, and I have never in a game felt like because I can't spawn a mob somewhere that my roleplay was diminished, or the studio "hated roleplayers" or "was against roleplayers" because they didn't provide me with these tools. I bring this up simply to address the fact that there are, indeed, sub-sections of roleplayers, not implying that this is the particular type of roleplay that you spend most of your time with.

With that said, though, what Sage talks about is spot on to me. I remember him talking about the Justice System being a huge boon to roleplay, and I absolutely agree. At last I can have my character be a vampire hunter. A real friggin' vampire hunter. If someone's a stage four vampire just sitting around lauding their curse? My character can utilize the justice system to exact Tamriel-styled .. well.. justice on said character.

To me, that's Roleplay. However, if I were to bring that up in some circles who consider themselves hardcore roleplayers? That'd be griefing.

And no, i'm not some powergaming, l33t speaking, doesn't-mark-their-chat style RPer. I write backstories. I write plots. I share them with my friends and guildies in game.

Why am I posting something like this? To simply try to broaden perspective. I do believe that, yes, Zenimax could and should always expand immersive tools like emoting, dueling, etc. But i'm also saying that they're not necessarily ignoring roleplayers either. What they're doing is implementing tools that everyone will enjoy, that also have a strong potential for roleplay. A certain section of roleplayers might not be getting all the tools they might like to have, but not all roleplayers are tavern-styled roleplayers. There's nothing wrong with those who choose to roleplay that way. But understand that them choosing to invest as much development assets on the largest segment of their playerbase isn't "ignoring" or "hating" roleplayers.

It's honestly up to us to make our own fun in this game. The fact that they even give us the time of day is an enormous step up from what other game companies do. They even go beyond that in my opinion. I mean, they're showing segments of video from TheHumanFloyd on ESO Live.

Just trying to respond to a few lines that I saw at the beginning of this thread. Honestly, as a hardcore roleplayer, i'm happy with what ZOS is doing.

Very well spoke and I agree whole-heartedly.

Robocles · December 2014

Off topic, but, you're right... they are investing their resources into what they view as the largest segment of the playerbase: Consoles.

Asking for some QOL is perfectly fine. I will say that the fact I can't just turn to face another player so I can speak or emote to them is patently absurd.

Edit: And I have yet to see them confirm any of this rampant speculation about stage 4 vampires being targetable.

GatheredMyst · December 2014

Robocles wrote: »

Off topic, but, you're right... they are investing their resources into what they view as the largest segment of the playerbase: Consoles.

Asking for some QOL is perfectly fine. I will say that the fact I can't just turn to face another player so I can speak or emote to them is patently absurd.

Edit: And I have yet to see them confirm any of this rampant speculation about stage 4 vampires being targetable.

It was in a summary post that listed "crimes". Least, that's where I got it from.

If it turns out the other way, oh well, but I still think that it's a neat idea, and I used it simply to help build the argument that I was making.

Robocles · December 2014

GatheredMyst wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Off topic, but, you're right... they are investing their resources into what they view as the largest segment of the playerbase: Consoles.

Asking for some QOL is perfectly fine. I will say that the fact I can't just turn to face another player so I can speak or emote to them is patently absurd.

Edit: And I have yet to see them confirm any of this rampant speculation about stage 4 vampires being targetable.

It was in a summary post that listed "crimes". Least, that's where I got it from. If it turns out the other way, oh well, but I still think that it's a neat idea, and I used it simply to help build the argument that I was making.

I get that. That summary was flawed, and has since been debunked. Nowhere have they said you will be able to target a stage 4 vamp for being in a town. They made a passing reference that NPCs would react, which is a huge difference.

MornaBaine · December 2014

GatheredMyst wrote: »

I think that there's something being lost in this entire conversation. The OP essentially is saying that Zenimax doesn't understand what roleplay is, and is asking that they be informed of the true definition so that they address it accurately.

However, I believe that there's something important to distinguish here. He isn't neglecting Roleplay, or Roleplayers. He is neglecting your particular type of roleplay.

I want to start by saying that i'm not at all attacking one roleplay style over the over. What i'm doing is acknowledging that there is more than one roleplay style , and that none of them are "wrong". Sage addresses one type. It also just so happens to be my type.

I don't do Tavern Styled Roleplay. At all. I think it's boring. My experience is not enhanced by having more emotes, or by having the ability to sit in a chair. I come from the MMO RP Era of EverQuest, where imagination was key, and where if you wanted a storyline to work or function, you had to be creative with text to get it done. It was also a game that heavily emphasized working within the boundaries of the mechanics that were given to us. In other words: IC PVE was huge. You went places, and you did things. You played the game, and laced your stories into the world. My plots and events never really involved sitting in the world somewhere, and I have never in a game felt like because I can't spawn a mob somewhere that my roleplay was diminished, or the studio "hated roleplayers" or "was against roleplayers" because they didn't provide me with these tools. I bring this up simply to address the fact that there are, indeed, sub-sections of roleplayers, not implying that this is the particular type of roleplay that you spend most of your time with.

With that said, though, what Sage talks about is spot on to me. I remember him talking about the Justice System being a huge boon to roleplay, and I absolutely agree. At last I can have my character be a vampire hunter. A real friggin' vampire hunter. If someone's a stage four vampire just sitting around lauding their curse? My character can utilize the justice system to exact Tamriel-styled .. well.. justice on said character.

To me, that's Roleplay. However, if I were to bring that up in some circles who consider themselves hardcore roleplayers? That'd be griefing.

And no, i'm not some powergaming, l33t speaking, doesn't-mark-their-chat style RPer. I write backstories. I write plots. I share them with my friends and guildies in game.

Why am I posting something like this? To simply try to broaden perspective. I do believe that, yes, Zenimax could and should always expand immersive tools like emoting, dueling, etc. But i'm also saying that they're not necessarily ignoring roleplayers either. What they're doing is implementing tools that everyone will enjoy, that also have a strong potential for roleplay. A certain section of roleplayers might not be getting all the tools they might like to have, but not all roleplayers are tavern-styled roleplayers. There's nothing wrong with those who choose to roleplay that way. But understand that them choosing to invest as much development assets on the largest segment of their playerbase isn't "ignoring" or "hating" roleplayers.

It's honestly up to us to make our own fun in this game. The fact that they even give us the time of day is an enormous step up from what other game companies do. They even go beyond that in my opinion. I mean, they're showing segments of video from TheHumanFloyd on ESO Live.

Just trying to respond to a few lines that I saw at the beginning of this thread. Honestly, as a hardcore roleplayer, i'm happy with what ZOS is doing.

I actually agree with much of what you are saying here, in that a lot of it DOES add to the potential to roleplay. I DO, however, take issue with the (perhaps not intentional) condescending reference to "tavern roleplay." While I DO go to taverns for various RP reasons I'd say far less than a quarter of my time spent roleplaying is in a tavern. When I speak of roleplay I am talking about various players having their characters interact together in character. This takes place by talking/typing in character, creating storylines together, adventuring in the world together in character. I do all of those things. For me it is primarily the INTERACTION with other characters that MAKES it roleplaying as opposed to just imagining stuff privately as I play the game alone.

You can't play Dungeons & Dragons by yourself. It REQUIRES other players interacting together. THAT is what I want to see in an MMO when it comes to roleplay. And true, we can all use our imaginations (and we all DO, believe me!) to set up any number of scenarios. Butthere ARE tools that can be made available to make that both easier and MORE IMMERSIVE. THAT'S what I'm asking for and that's what I mean when I'm talking about ZOS doing things that promote roleplay.

And I will continue to contend that, if you are playing the game by yourself, I don't care how vividly you are using your imagination as you do so, you are not roleplaying.

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

I just don't see an TESO/Sims happening anytime soon. If they could get mic audio through your toon in "yell space" or "say space" that would be cool. If that's too big to do, why not have booths in the taverns? Say a small group that will hold 6 or 8 people and have a nice chat. Heck, might even be a great way to meet new players and group up, considering the grouping tool suxors... bad. I couldn't see it used in PvP (why would you) because of bandwidth anyway but for PvE... be neat I would think!

GatheredMyst · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

GatheredMyst wrote: »

Snippity Snip Snip.

I actually agree with much of what you are saying here, in that a lot of it DOES add to the potential to roleplay. I DO, however, take issue with the (perhaps not intentional) condescending reference to "tavern roleplay." While I DO go to taverns for various RP reasons I'd say far less than a quarter of my time spent roleplaying is in a tavern. When I speak of roleplay I am talking about various players having their characters interact together in character. This takes place by talking/typing in character, creating storylines together, adventuring in the world together in character. I do all of those things. For me it is primarily the INTERACTION with other characters that MAKES it roleplaying as opposed to just imagining stuff privately as I play the game alone.

You can't play Dungeons & Dragons by yourself. It REQUIRES other players interacting together. THAT is what I want to see in an MMO when it comes to roleplay. And true, we can all use our imaginations (and we all DO, believe me!) to set up any number of scenarios. Butthere ARE tools that can be made available to make that both easier and MORE IMMERSIVE. THAT'S what I'm asking for and that's what I mean when I'm talking about ZOS doing things that promote roleplay.

And I will continue to contend that, if you are playing the game by yourself, I don't care how vividly you are using your imagination as you do so, you are not roleplaying.

First of all, I wasn't meaning to be condescending. I was simply pointing out that there are a variety of different ways that people choose to roleplay, and that one of those ways is not something that I choose to participate in. The reason I actually mentioned Tavern RP as said example, though, was because of the examples that I read that would help contribute to a better state of immersion: Those being interactive emotes, sitting in chairs/benches, allowing simultaneous emotes WHILE sitting in chairs/benches, etc. To me, most of those contribute to the type of roleplay mentioned.... specifically, tavern-styled Roleplay, where people often are sitting in one spot/location gabbing.

And to further emphasize, there's nothing wrong with that. I was simply stating that there are other types of roleplay, other types of ways to interact with the world and other people (even from a hardcore RP sense), and Zenimax seems to be going full swing toward those roleplay systems. Why? Because it hits the largest demographic. It gets to the mechanic RPers, AND It gets to the Classic "RPG" players who are looking for those sandbox elements.

And, for the record, nothing that I mentioned in my post was in isolation. Everything there was interactive, including the way that the Justice System might play into things (if it does, as someone pointed out).

This means... I do all those with other people.

There's nothing wrong with requesting more things that help better support the RP that I listed above. But is ZOS then not understanding Roleplayers as the OP indicates? I don't think so. I think they full well get it. It's just not the type of stuff that you in particular are looking for, and that's fine.

There's a trend that I see, though, in your posts, so I thought to ask about it. You keep on mentioning that "other people" are the key. "You can't play dungeons and dragons by yourself. It requires other people interacting together." This, to me, and I may be reading it wrong, comes across as... there are walls in the way of interaction between other people.

I, personally, haven't seen it. So... what walls are there? Because being able to sit in a bench or shake hands with another PC doesn't effect ones ability to facilitate or foster something between two or more folks, right? What other roadblocks are there, if any? That might help get to the crux of the issue.

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

I just don't see an TESO/Sims happening anytime soon. If they could get mic audio through your toon in "yell space" or "say space" that would be cool. If that's too big to do, why not have booths in the taverns? Say a small group that will hold 6 or 8 people and have a nice chat. Heck, might even be a great way to meet new players and group up, considering the grouping tool suxors... bad. I couldn't see it used in PvP (why would you) because of bandwidth anyway but for PvE... be neat I would think!

That would be pretty neat. I think their should be an instanced room in the back of taverns, or a trapdoor in the taverns, that is called like "Roleplayer's Sanctum" and you go there and it auto-groups you randomly with other people. You then chit chat and have your own little role playing room to plan what you would like to do for the day... or make friends to RP with later