Official Discussion Thread for "Battlemaster's Corner - Fallen Shield of Meridia"

ZOS_JasonLeavey · November 2014

This is the official discussion thread for the web article "Battlemaster's Corner - Fallen Shield of Meridia."

Check out this featured player-build, which touts its ability to tank and heal at the same time. Want your build to be featured in our next Battlemaster's Corner? Submit it to us here at community@elderscrollsonline.com!

Khivas_Carrick · November 2014

I think....I think I know Skull Kracker lol Also interesting build, but I'm not so sure I'd practice it in the newer scaled dungeons, but I'm willing to try, for I admit you have piqued my interest.

Spacemonkey · November 2014

Sry but if he uses a restoration staff its a healer, so that "leave the healers at home" catch line is totally irrelevant.

Sord · November 2014

Just crazy to see yet again another tank toon wearing LA. Great build for the current system and way to make use of it.

I just hope this changes because it just doesn't seem right that "Tanks" are wearing LA. Just sad to see LA dominate the scene as a tank in higher end game content. I hope this is being addressed for the next patch in a serious way!

keto3000 · November 2014

I found this build interesting, but the OP states he has cleared delves, etc in Upper Craglorn, yet, I question whether this build (with its light armor & vampiric vulnerabilities) could handle Trials or DSA? Before, recommending this as a viable endgame build, it should be thoroughly vetted in those 2 settings. Also, @Spacemonkey‌, in fairness to OP, his headline "leave the healers at home" doesn't state that healing isn't necessary, but simply that his toon can double both tank & as a support healer, so (according to him) the group wouldn't require a 'dedicated healer' so the other 3 group members can be pure DPS, and therefore, do much more overall damage.

Spacemonkey · November 2014

keto3000 wrote: »

Also, @Spacemonkey‌, in fairness to OP, his headline "leave the healers at home" doesn't state that healing isn't necessary, but simply that his toon can double both tank & as a support healer, so (according to him) the group wouldn't require a 'dedicated healer' so the other 3 group members can be pure DPS, and therefore, do much more overall damage.

And what I'm saying is that he doesnt need to bring a dedicated healer because he is one himself. I've yet to see a healer with a resto staff NOT having some way of doing damage with the secondary skill bar. Just because he put the resto on the second bar does not make this secondary. And any good healer will be able to support 3 other DPS in a 4 character team.

It's just a rather shallow title and all.

If you want real tanking without any dedicated healers, it works very well with two characters rocking AoE Armor and Res boosting abilities (like the fighters guild one for example), when you rampage through a group dungeon with no healers but often have your Armor and Resistance go over twice the soft cap limit you'll understand

Pmarsico9 · November 2014

Templar Tank without blazing shield or Channeled Focus???? I don't think this build could even tank Veteran Dungeons.

Armisael9 · November 2014

OP Defense!

Alright here goes, please don't bash me too hard back (this is my first MMO and my first post in any forum)... Be gentle?

@spacemonkey
I meant this to be a healing tank build, not "leave the healer at home" (ZOS editors put that in, I swear!). You're right though, a good healer can get through dungeons, vet or otherwise, with 3 DPS. This toon is simply another way to play, and there are times when a tank is good to have... Your poster-child tank should be rocking heavy armor and stacking health, stamina, and damage shields for sustainability. This build sustains itself through heals (and in turn heals everyone else) via Breath of Life.

@keto3000‌
Yeah, I haven't done DSA with this yet. That would be THE best test for this. To be honest, I haven't done any trials and that understandably reduces the validity a lot. I have been able to complete Shada's Tear and Exarch's Stronghold quests with 3 DPS and this toon (while only wiping a few times at the end boss for each). Would love to try it out if you get a chance. Hit me up in-game! @Armisael9‌ I'll eat my words and give you some legendary mats if my toon can't hack it. (uh, is like 3 Kutas ok or something equivalent?) The Vampire Undeath and Unnatural Recovery passives actually help with tanking imo!

@Pmarsico9‌
Yeah, haven't done a Vet dungeon either... Give me a chance! Same invite to you as with @keto3000. I know it's crazy to not be using Blazing Shield, but I did mention slotting Rune Focus (Channeled Focus morph) on the secondary bar for heal checks. Tbh, I don't normally use that during tanking, probably should...

Right, so I'm backing up the build with only Shada's Tear and Exarch's Stronghold. I did have some really awesome DPS as well (@Defobas being one of them, my theory consultant!). Although I have since made a few changes:

Original

4-piece Alessia's Bulwark and 5-piece Magnus
Jewelry Enchants: 630 Armor Enchant, 1550 Flame Resist, 14 Spell Power
Shield Enchanted with Health
Home Campaign of Haderus as an EP (no buffs)

Slightly Improved

5-piece Seducer and 4-piece Magnus
Jewelry Enchants: 630 Armor Enchant, 1550 Flame Resist, 31 Shield Play (Block and Bash reduced cost)
Home Campaign of Azuras Star as an EP (lots of buffs!)

Spacemonkey · November 2014

@Armisael9 I wasn't at all criticizing the build! I was pointing out that whoever did the whole article did a very poor job, "marketing" the build (for lack of a better term) as something it is not. What's fun with eso is that everyone can find a build they like and that can serve different roles.

I myself favour a sub-healing tank build that can bolster everyone around him as well as heal somewhat instead of taunting enemies to him. Bow + Two Handed Sword (dont ask, I know, far from optimal, but I have fun playing it)

Valiantknightjg · November 2014

This is a nice build but I'm with Sord on this, I thought the last patch or so was suppose to make it more normal with Armors, where Tanks felt that NEED to be in Heavy Armor and how mages were the ones needing the Light. I do hope more is going to be done so that we don't see these Light Armor tanks dominating it as they have so far throughout the whole game. The number of armor buffs out there makes just reducing the damage reduction next to nothing as they can over-shoot the soft cap easily with a shield and buffs.

Also I just want to say, yet ANOTHER Templar build.....how about some love for the Nightblades? I know I sent a nice one in, been tweaking it as well but still the original was great. Just kinda seeing a massive trend still of the all Magicka skill based builds being shown here. Not to mention EVERYONE has to state in that they have ALL attribute points in Health. I think ZOS just needs to do away with Attribute points all together at this rate.....even though I don't do the all in health myself. Could just use some more evening out between Magicka and Stamina builds, loving the changes so far but could just be a bit more to make it easier to not get instantly laughed at and kicked for trying to be a Bow DPS or a melee DW DPS. I know they upped a lot of stuff but hey it's still happening a lot.

Armisael9 · November 2014

Test Results

Ooooook...

Initial Settings:

All vr14 members
3 DPS and this build
No healing or off-heals
Build consumables: magicka and stamina food (Blue Recipe), magicka potion (Panacea)

Results:

So, tried DSA Vet and only got the first boss down approximately 45-40%. Survived first bosses' "Dawnbreaker" style attack (i.e., did not get one-shotted despite having only 2805 hp).
Tried City of Ash (vr14) and got only up to the 3rd boss (Horvauntud the Fire Maw), down to approximately 70%.

Conclusion:
This build is a hybrid and, as much as it tries I wasn't able to get it to do both healing and tanking for the two most challenging group content currently available... =\ A test on Crypt of Hearts may prove the same thing. It does work for less OP scenarios like regular UC delves and quests but it's just not up to the tank and heal demand of the recent content.

Recommendation:
It's a solid tank, but an off-heals will be needed to keep the build, and the group for that matter, alive. The amount of off-heals will depend on the level of difficulty of the dungeon. Places like DSA and Vet City of Ash will most likely need the "solid grouping" of Tank, Heals, and x2 DPS.

Credit:
Thank you to Kypster, Zivan, and X-Sinister-X for their time, efforts, and patience in the testing!

Armisael9 · November 2014

Valiantknightjg wrote: »

This is a nice build but I'm with Sord on this, I thought the last patch or so was suppose to make it more normal with Armors, where Tanks felt that NEED to be in Heavy Armor and how mages were the ones needing the Light. I do hope more is going to be done so that we don't see these Light Armor tanks dominating it as they have so far throughout the whole game. The number of armor buffs out there makes just reducing the damage reduction next to nothing as they can over-shoot the soft cap easily with a shield and buffs.

Also I just want to say, yet ANOTHER Templar build.....how about some love for the Nightblades? I know I sent a nice one in, been tweaking it as well but still the original was great. Just kinda seeing a massive trend still of the all Magicka skill based builds being shown here. Not to mention EVERYONE has to state in that they have ALL attribute points in Health. I think ZOS just needs to do away with Attribute points all together at this rate.....even though I don't do the all in health myself. Could just use some more evening out between Magicka and Stamina builds, loving the changes so far but could just be a bit more to make it easier to not get instantly laughed at and kicked for trying to be a Bow DPS or a melee DW DPS. I know they upped a lot of stuff but hey it's still happening a lot.

I totally agree with you here man. Personally, I would like to see Class Skills that are in "melee" range utilize Stamina instead of Magicka. At least some, not sure if it's realistic for all "melee range" Class Skills to be Stamina based. Class Skills that have a range of, say, 10m or greater, should be Magicka based.

I was using all Heavy Armor until I got to Gold content because I thought that's what a Tank needed and it looked great. Then switched to 2-piece Light and 5-piece Heavy and was like, nice, I can use my Class Skills more and still Tank. Then I sold out completely and am tanking in full Light... (and yes, he does need a healer for places like DSA and Vet City of Ash =\ see above)

Khivas_Carrick · November 2014

I read in here something about "Yet ANOTHER Templar Build".

The correct way to say that would be Yet ANOTHER Templar Healer/Support Build. Not Tank Build, not DPS, healer and Support. Resto Warrior = iffy at best, especially since when it was made it was when Werewolves were crap, the Radiant Bastion is better suited for PvP than PvE, and iirc the Juggernaut was actually kinda cool but LA Builds may or may not serve better for it's purpose depending on what's used, I'm not an expert on that much, just making an observation.

I will say, one day, to those in charge of the Battlemaster's Corner, for the love of God, put more Nightblade Caster builds, Dragonknight Support Builds, and Templar Damage Dealer Builds in. Don't feed us the lines of "People don't submit them" when I know for damn sure people submit those builds. Add a little diversity, it's good for you guys.

Gyudan · November 2014

I'm not sure how the pieces go together, but wearing Warlock (5/5), Footman (5/5) and one of the dungeon sets (2/2) could actually make this build viable.

I don't think that inner light is really necessary for tanking, so removing it entirely would allow 1 more slot on each bar, which could be used for healing springs on the resto staff bar and structured entropy on the shield bar to boost health a bit.

The traits should also be the usual divines on small pieces / infused on large pieces rather than a mix of divines and impenetrable. If you want PVP, build another set with all pieces impenetrable. The sword would be better with defending instead of precise: a tank doesn't need crits.

cesmode · November 2014

This is definitely cool and what I was looking for in terms of a build for my templar(and creative builds in general), but I feel that ZOS will soon nerf things like this and say "we want you to either be a healer or tank not both..." Wasn't ZOS quoted saying that gone are the days of light armor tanking and they want folks to wear heavy armor to tank?

Pmarsico9 · November 2014

@Armisael If you want to tank, try talenting immovable in heavy armor. Use Radiant Aura to keep feeding yourself stamina. Even in 7/7 light armor, Immovable and Channeled Focus will keep your armor and spell resistance hard capped.

You can't really heal and tank simultaneously, but you can help heal while you tank. Meaning, don't leave the healer at home.

I am taking the approach of being as much a support and fully defensive tank as you can

Loadout 1:

Inner Rage
Blazing Shield
Radiant Aura
Immovable
Channeled Focus

Ult: Empowering Sweep (flat 15% Damage reduction at a very low cost)

Loadout 2:

Ravage Armor (other taunt, it's helpful to have two taunts when magicka starved or stamina starved) and the armor Debuff is nice
Blazing Shield
Breath of Life
Immovable
Channeled Focus

Ult: Empowering Sweep

The idea is to keep Immovable, Channeled Focus, and Blazing Shield up as much as possible.

You don't have to spam block. In fact, you should only swap Breath of Life with Absorb Magic when you do in fact find yourself having to block. Because this allows you to bypass the hard cap on damage reduction and Blazing Shield will ignore your armor. It will be a flat 30% of your health as a shield before armor and spell resistance which will both be hard capped.

5 Piece Hist Skin is godly for blocking.

keto3000 · November 2014

Cheers, @Armisael9‌! TY for your courteous and thoughtful reply to my concerns. I am only lvl vr7, so I cannot fully join you yet on your endgame quests, but, I am certainly rooting for you. This is also my first MMO, so I am basing my questions on the feedback of my well informed and veteran gamer guild mates who regularly run DSA & Trials and have been coaching me in preparation. You have done us all a great service by offering a fresh perspective and "thinking out of the box' which is why most of us are here in this game! I hope to follow your good lead in experimentation with great endgame builds, such as yours! I would be honored to have you as a friend in game.

PS: The perspective and suggestions offered by @Pmarsico9‌ are really interesting... I may incorporate many of his suggestions in my alt DK that I am working on as a tank build.

markbonafeub17_ESO · November 2014

Sord wrote: »

Just crazy to see yet again another tank toon wearing LA. Great build for the current system and way to make use of it.

I just hope this changes because it just doesn't seem right that "Tanks" are wearing LA. Just sad to see LA dominate the scene as a tank in higher end game content. I hope this is being addressed for the next patch in a serious way!

Completely ridiculous that a tank wears LA. I agree completely. This game is not making much sense.

Dreddnawt · December 2014

Interesting build, Im pretty defensively inclined but this goes a bit farther than even Im likely to go. At the very least I would get rid of magelight in favor of Blazing Shield on the first bar and maybe Solar Barrage or Puncturing Strikes on the second bar. Having at least 1-2 DPS abilities is essential.

I like the idea overall but feel that holding agro would be a problem even with high heal hate in this game, especially if running with 3 straight DPS.