Magnus's Gift VS The Seducer

LoreScholar · December 2014

Which one is more viable for a Breton Sorcerer DPS for PvP?

s7732425ub17_ESO · December 2014

Always Seducer. Don't waste your time with Warlock as well.

LoreScholar · December 2014

I'm going to wear the Warlock & Seducer combo.

Chesimac · December 2014

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I'm was going to wear the Warlock - Seducer Combo.

Warlock is good try to wear only 2 pieces of armor though with 3 jewelry so you can pack impenetrable on your armor

Chesimac · December 2014

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Always Seducer. Don't waste your time with Warlock as well.

LOL do you even pvp?
Warlock/Seducer= one of the op magicka build combos in pvp right now

LoreScholar · December 2014

Chesimac wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Always Seducer. Don't waste your time with Warlock as well.

LOL do you even pvp?
Warlock/Seducer= one of the op magicka build combos in pvp right now

I agree

s7732425ub17_ESO · December 2014

Chesimac wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Always Seducer. Don't waste your time with Warlock as well.

LOL do you even pvp?
Warlock/Seducer= one of the op magicka build combos in pvp right now

Yea I have PVPed 3+ hours a day for the last 2 months on a Sorc. I've tested many different build specs. 5 piece Seducer is much, much better than 5 piece Warlock. Also, with the new Undaunted sets, you should be dropping Warlock completely and getting a different armor/jewelry set.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Seducer > Magnus' Gift because Magnus can proc off of any ability, even one with very low cost but Seducer reduces all Magicka costs by 8% every time.

Seducer + Warlock is a fine combo but the proc from Warlock can't always be trusted and if you rely on it to keep you going that's when it'll fail you.

Teargrants · December 2014

Don't forget, seducer + warlock + the darkshade dwemer 2 piece. Even better.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

Don't forget, seducer + warlock + the darkshade dwemer 2 piece. Even better.

Absolutely, if you're one of the 0.0001% that has been lucky enough to get the Helm to drop

Teargrants · December 2014

Pfft, helm can be farmed. The light shoulders are what's hard to get considering you just have once chance per day.

Sleep · December 2014

I tried Magnus' Gift for quite some time. Not as good as I expected. Then I switched to Seducer. I think Seducer is much better than Magnus' Gift. At least for me it's better. And I'm a Breton Sorcerer AoE spammer and heal in PvP.

DeLindsay · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

Pfft, helm can be farmed. The light shoulders are what's hard to get considering you just have once chance per day.

Indeed, but try telling that to the players who have over 50 clears of DC (since he's the last boss) without even seeing the Helm drop at all.

LoreScholar · December 2014

Sleep wrote: »

I tried Magnus' Gift for quite some time. Not as good as I expected. Then I switched to Seducer. I think Seducer is much better than Magnus' Gift. At least for me it's better. And I'm a Breton Sorcerer AoE spammer and heal in PvP.

I agree

Teargrants · December 2014

Still better than farming for city of ash head. That was hell.

Gyudan · December 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Don't forget, seducer + warlock + the darkshade dwemer 2 piece. Even better.

Absolutely, if you're one of the 0.0001% that has been lucky enough to get the Helm to drop

I got the helm to drop. Unfortunately the dungeon was scaled to VR4 at that time!

Also, find a combination that doesn't include 5x Warlock if you want to do Sanctum Ophidia. Mana Burn would kill you.

MADshadowman · December 2014

Magnus is the better choice if you have a decent magicka pool. Sure, Seducer gives you a fix cost reduction, so you can calculate with that. But it's only 8%, so that's not that much.

Seducer

Let's say you have 2400 magicka and use all your magicka, then Seducer saves you 192 Magicka. Does this sound good? Not really.

Magnus

Magnus only has a 8% chance to proc, but with a magicka pool of 2400 it's more than likely that it procs at least once. Let's say you're using a skill that costs 240 magicka, then you can use it 10 times in a row (without mag regen) until you run out of magicka. If Magnus procs 1 time, it saves you 240 magicka. Thats already 50 more than Seducer can do.

In my tests i did with the Magnus set, i could see that it often procs more than 1 time over the use of the entire magicka pool. even if it only procs 2 times, it saves you almost 500 magicka and this will happen very often.

I tested the Magnus + Warlock Combo and i had Magnus once proc 8 times before i ran out of magicka. the more it procs, the more you can cast, the more chance you have that it procs again. In this test i was using a skill that cost me 288 magicka, with Magnus procing 8 times, that saved me 2300 magicka. Does this sound good? Yes it does!

So, Seducer is better for calculating, cause you can rely on the cost reduction.

But Magnus has more potential to save you magicka. A lot of magicka.

reften · December 2014

MADshadowman wrote: »

Magnus is the better choice if you have a decent magicka pool. Sure, Seducer gives you a fix cost reduction, so you can calculate with that. But it's only 8%, so that's not that much.

Seducer

Let's say you have 2400 magicka and use all your magicka, then Seducer saves you 192 Magicka. Does this sound good? Not really.

Magnus

Magnus only has a 8% chance to proc, but with a magicka pool of 2400 it's more than likely that it procs at least once. Let's say you're using a skill that costs 240 magicka, then you can use it 10 times in a row (without mag regen) until you run out of magicka. If Magnus procs 1 time, it saves you 240 magicka. Thats already 50 more than Seducer can do.

In my tests i did with the Magnus set, i could see that it often procs more than 1 time over the use of the entire magicka pool. even if it only procs 2 times, it saves you almost 500 magicka and this will happen very often.

I tested the Magnus + Warlock Combo and i had Magnus once proc 8 times before i ran out of magicka. the more it procs, the more you can cast, the more chance you have that it procs again. In this test i was using a skill that cost me 288 magicka, with Magnus procing 8 times, that saved me 2300 magicka. Does this sound good? Yes it does!

So, Seducer is better for calculating, cause you can rely on the cost reduction.

But Magnus has more potential to save you magicka. A lot of magicka.

yup, this guy gets it.

Plus, I want bonus spell damage. I can max out magicka easily...getting overcharged spell damage is hard though.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

Seducer all the way. If you routinely run out of Health then Magnus is nice but a well managed build, fought well, won't use it's only real advantage much. The 8% is always.

If you are using Hardened Ward well you can make a sorc that's hard to hurt. Even in serious AoE madness.

LO. I'm babbling about Warlock. Still 8% chance of a freebie is no contest at all.

Gyudan · December 2014

Seducer = reliable 8% cost reduction

Magnus = unreliable 8% chance to cast a free spell

Check the numbers, the averaged results are the same. If you want to have constant DPS, pick seducer. If you feel lucky, pick magnus.

MADshadowman · December 2014

yeah, reliable 200 magicka are so much better than the chance of getting a second magicka pool... You guys clearly have no experience. Magnus users know how powerful this set can be. Seducer doesn't even save you enough to get 1 additional cast out of your entire magicka pool.

i rather have an 8% chance of being awesome, than a 100% chance of being mediocre.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

MADshadowman wrote: »

yeah, reliable 200 magicka are so much better than the chance of getting a second magicka pool... You guys clearly have no experience. Magnus users know how powerful this set can be. Seducer doesn't even save you enough to get 1 additional cast out of your entire magicka pool.

i rather have an 8% chance of being awesome, than a 100% chance of being mediocre.

This escapes me. The difference is the all the time 8%, Seducer and an 8% chance of a free cast, Magnus. Apart from that Seducer is better because 10 Magic Recovery twice beats 7 Spell Damage.

By the time the 1 in, about, 12 chance comes around for the free cast, the 10% Magic Recovery has made up for the difference anyway and Seducer still has 8% off, all the time.

Ommamar · December 2014

MADshadowman wrote: »

yeah, reliable 200 magicka are so much better than the chance of getting a second magicka pool... You guys clearly have no experience. Magnus users know how powerful this set can be. Seducer doesn't even save you enough to get 1 additional cast out of your entire magicka pool.

i rather have an 8% chance of being awesome, than a 100% chance of being mediocre.

The sentence about how powerful it can be. So talking about something that might or might not occur.

"In my tests i did with the Magnus set, i could see that it often procs more than 1 time over the use of the entire magicka pool. even if it only procs 2 times, it saves you almost 500 magicka and this will happen very often."-MADshadowman

Ok I am sure you managed to get those results. How many times have you gone through your entire magicka pool in PvP? If the Magnus proc chance built up every time you cast it might be worth it but for every time it has an 8% chance. Procs are nice but the only ones I have ever placed as part of my strategy are the ones that say after your pool reaches a certain percentage it procs. But even those I wouldn't count on paticularly in PvP where the chance of a heavy shot is a lot higher then playing against PvE standard mobs.

MADshadowman · December 2014

Ommamar wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

yeah, reliable 200 magicka are so much better than the chance of getting a second magicka pool... You guys clearly have no experience. Magnus users know how powerful this set can be. Seducer doesn't even save you enough to get 1 additional cast out of your entire magicka pool.

i rather have an 8% chance of being awesome, than a 100% chance of being mediocre.

The sentence about how powerful it can be. So talking about something that might or might not occur.

"In my tests i did with the Magnus set, i could see that it often procs more than 1 time over the use of the entire magicka pool. even if it only procs 2 times, it saves you almost 500 magicka and this will happen very often."-MADshadowman

Ok I am sure you managed to get those results. How many times have you gone through your entire magicka pool in PvP? If the Magnus proc chance built up every time you cast it might be worth it but for every time it has an 8% chance. Procs are nice but the only ones I have ever placed as part of my strategy are the ones that say after your pool reaches a certain percentage it procs. But even those I wouldn't count on paticularly in PvP where the chance of a heavy shot is a lot higher then playing against PvE standard mobs.

i use it everyday for several hours and it often procs 3 or 4 times in a row. and if you look at my calculations, you will see that only 1 proc will already save you more than Seducer could ever do. You have to realize that you will be performing a lot better with Magnus, cause saving roughly 200 magicka will not help you at all. But it's almost guaranteed that Magnus will proc at least 1 time over the use of your magicka pool and that saves you more than Seducer + the chance of 3 or more procs is still pretty high.

8% chance sounds not much, but if you constantly use spells you will see why a Magnus user will always be able to perform longer than a Seducer user.

MADshadowman · December 2014

Maybe a little example to make it a little clearer:

Let's say you get $ 2400 a month from your job.

Now someone offers you 2 different things:

8% more salary every month ($ 192 more)

or

8% chance to win the lottery every month, while you still get $ 2400 every month.

I know what i would choose. And now comes the best part:

Magnus has a chance to let you win multiple lotteries every month. Hooray!

eliisra · December 2014

Also depends on class + build. Do you need spell power or more recovery, can also be considered.

I use Seducer on my templar healer, because I cant gamble with heals. I need to know exactly how much I can heal and manage. The recovery is also good.

But on NB/DK I pick Magnus's Gift, when using reduction gear. I prefer the extra spell power on those and the joy of free casts.

I think overall and over time, there's no major difference between the sets in terms of saving magicka.

guybrushtb16_ESO · December 2014

MADshadowman wrote: »

Maybe a little example to make it a little clearer:

Let's say you get $ 2400 a month from your job.

Now someone offers you 2 different things:

8% more salary every month ($ 192 more)

or

8% chance to win the lottery every month, while you still get $ 2400 every month.

I know what i would choose. And now comes the best part:

Magnus has a chance to let you win multiple lotteries every month. Hooray!

Apparently you don't understand your own analogy; both are perfectly equal on average, assuming the lottery is a constant $2400 of course - and there is no such thing as multiple draws, but even then the analogy doesn't really work for the example.

Also, you don't seem to understand how cost reduction in the game works.

Without taking anything else into account, the 8% boni from seducer and magnus are equal on average. The difference between them is that seducer stacks additively with other cost reductions, whereas magnus does not.

In practice, OP's breton sorc will get:
21% from light armor,
5% from Unholy Knowledge,
3% from Breton racial.

so 29% in both cases, so a 420 base cost Crystal Fragments will cost 298.2.

Wearing Magnus would bring down the average cost to 274.3, but seducer would bring it down to 264.6, because it stacks with other cost reductions.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

IMHO,

Seducer is Guaranteed, Magnus Gift is not.

I always go with the sure thing, more reliable.

PBpsy · December 2014

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Magnus is the better choice if you have a decent magicka pool. Sure, Seducer gives you a fix cost reduction, so you can calculate with that. But it's only 8%, so that's not that much.

Seducer

Let's say you have 2400 magicka and use all your magicka, then Seducer saves you 192 Magicka. Does this sound good? Not really.

Magnus

Magnus only has a 8% chance to proc, but with a magicka pool of 2400 it's more than likely that it procs at least once. Let's say you're using a skill that costs 240 magicka, then you can use it 10 times in a row (without mag regen) until you run out of magicka. If Magnus procs 1 time, it saves you 240 magicka. Thats already 50 more than Seducer can do.

In my tests i did with the Magnus set, i could see that it often procs more than 1 time over the use of the entire magicka pool. even if it only procs 2 times, it saves you almost 500 magicka and this will happen very often.

I tested the Magnus + Warlock Combo and i had Magnus once proc 8 times before i ran out of magicka. the more it procs, the more you can cast, the more chance you have that it procs again. In this test i was using a skill that cost me 288 magicka, with Magnus procing 8 times, that saved me 2300 magicka. Does this sound good? Yes it does!

So, Seducer is better for calculating, cause you can rely on the cost reduction.

But Magnus has more potential to save you magicka. A lot of magicka.

yup, this guy gets it.

Plus, I want bonus spell damage. I can max out magicka easily...getting overcharged spell damage is hard though.

Magnum set works on a binomial distribution so if you have magicka pool that lets you cast 10 times you have.
-43% chance of not getting a proc. )Almost one in two chances of not getting anything in 10 casts.)
-37% of one procs
-14% of two procs
-3% of three procs
Depending on what skills you are using you may on average get slightly better returns from Magnus but you will lose the reliability of Seducer due to the high probability that Magnus will not porc many times in a row. The difference in returns will be slight but nowhere near 2x better on Magnus. Many people ,depending on role builds will prefer Seducer on the long run as a high Magicka regen set due to the stability and the extra regen. The spell damage is nice but imo if a players cares about that a lot he probably should go for something other than these two sets.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Maybe a little example to make it a little clearer:

Let's say you get $ 2400 a month from your job.

Now someone offers you 2 different things:

8% more salary every month ($ 192 more)

or

8% chance to win the lottery every month, while you still get $ 2400 every month.

I know what i would choose. And now comes the best part:

Magnus has a chance to let you win multiple lotteries every month. Hooray!

No it's more like the choice getting a guaranteed pay of an extra $192 every month vs a chance off 43% chance of not gating anything extra for the next 10 months. Or $1920 for a 57% chance of getting ~3-6k. If I plan to work there for a long I will decide based on how much I need that $1920 to pay bills on time.

briandivisionb16_ESO · December 2014

+1 Seducer.
It kicks in BEFORE light armour reductions etc. hence its a lot more than 8% total. It's 8% base.
Wear it and see before commenting.

MADshadowman · December 2014

Well, then go with your Seducer set and watch me cast a lot more spells than you. I've used both sets for a long time, and all i can tell you is: if you have a decent amount of magicka, and know how to play, you will see why Magnus is the better choice.

One last thing:

If you "have to" rely on a set bonus for your build to work properly, you're doing something wrong.