Evergnar wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

So soon it will be welcome to the Thieves guilds Zerg train, welcome to lag on the capitals streets.

Honestly if they cannot cope with a few people in Cyrodill spamming spells, how are they going to cope in the cities!!

This is one of my biggest concerns based on the state of the game right now. Still not a peep from them about the current Cyrodill lag/latency issues either.

GreyBrow wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

=

Allowances have to be made in an MMO where other players need to access their bank or specific venders. Besides, TES has always had essential NPCs who where unkillable because they were story important or tied to a quest.

this is not true

it was only in Skyrim when they noob-proofed the game and made certain NPC's unkillable.

Guards have ALWAYS been killable in Elder Scrolls games, that was half the fun, and allowed you to have a viable alternative than skukling around like some kind of sneak thief. If you murdered someone, but were not a "sneaky" character, your only option was to run or fight the guards, kill them, and then run.

IMO, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and the rest are noob proofing this game as well. 1 week after you implement this, mark my words, you will have every character in the game who is not a nightblade in here crying to you that they can't escape the guards, because 95% of the builds and classes are built to kill things, not sneak away.

Please, please, please use some common sense and make guards very strong, yet still killable, so that the players who do not choose to be sneaky have an alternative.... just like we did in every other elder scrolls game. Balance it with infinitely respawning guards or something, but making the justice system the primary forte of nightblades is a huge mistake that you will regret.

driosketch wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

=

Allowances have to be made in an MMO where other players need to access their bank or specific venders. Besides, TES has always had essential NPCs who where unkillable because they were story important or tied to a quest.

this is not true

it was only in Skyrim when they noob-proofed the game and made certain NPC's unkillable.

Guards have ALWAYS been killable in Elder Scrolls games, that was half the fun, and allowed you to have a viable alternative than skukling around like some kind of sneak thief. If you murdered someone, but were not a "sneaky" character, your only option was to run or fight the guards, kill them, and then run.

IMO, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and the rest are noob proofing this game as well. 1 week after you implement this, mark my words, you will have every character in the game who is not a nightblade in here crying to you that they can't escape the guards, because 95% of the builds and classes are built to kill things, not sneak away.

Please, please, please use some common sense and make guards very strong, yet still killable, so that the players who do not choose to be sneaky have an alternative.... just like we did in every other elder scrolls game. Balance it with infinitely respawning guards or something, but making the justice system the primary forte of nightblades is a huge mistake that you will regret.

It is true. In Oblivion for example, and NPC with a crown was deemed essential, and while you could knock them down, you couldn't kill them. Look it up.

I wasn't even talking about killing guards, but as it keeps getting brought up, strong guards is not a blanket solution without serious modifications. (Oblivion's guards would level with you plus 10 levels or so.) I submit Blackwater Blade non-vet PvP Campaign as exhibit one. Here keep guards are strong to face Vet Ranked players, but no one in that campaign is a VR yet. They couldn't selectively nerf the guards so they opted to try and raise the battle leveling system instead. In PvE you only have your base stats. Very strong guards are functionally the same as unkillable to a new characters working their way up the new justice system.

Probably guards should simply spawn, using the scaling system to level to you, when you are witnessed committing a crime, just like in other Elder Scroll games.

GreyBrow wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

We also have enough trouble with moving bankers, we don't need other players being allowed to chase them away while you're trying to use them. This isn't one of the single player games, which by the way had NPCs that would cower and run away and who could kill you but you couldn't kill them.

You seem to have forgotten that this is an MMO. its SUPPOSED to be competitive. How many zones are there? how many towns in those zones? how many banks in those towns?

Deal with it. Go to another zone. that's why the world is so big.

Are you kidding, do you even play this game? There is one bank in all of Stonefalls. One. There is only the single bank in Glennumbra. I don't even need to invoke the new player without access to other zones, every player with a bank mule would be rightly upset if this was allowed.

What some people might do is kill the grocery shop keeper, maybe the horse breeder etc. but they are not that busy either and would respawn quickly anyways and offer a tough challenge as well.

@Audigy‌ That still sounds like it's open to griefing, but the above made me think of a compromise. Suppose you could knock certain vendors unconscious rather than kill them. You would still be able to loot them, and they would be a poor witness if they couldn't remember what hit them. Other players who needed to use said vendor could click the fallen NPC and get a short animation helping them up with a 'thanks, I don't know what hit me" dialogue. Much better than having to wait for an NPC to respawn only to have another griefer kill them right away. They would need a short leash so they didn't fall too far from their stand, and other players would need to be able to interrupt a fight to talk to the NPC.

So player A attacks grocer but takes a long time in the fight. Player B needs to talk to vender, faces and presses E. From player B's prospective, the NPC stops, turns to face player B, enter the dialouge interface where the NPC sheaths weapon and maybe comments on the "crime wave". From player A's prospective the NPC might stutter turn when B grabs their attention, but return attention to A with the next attack and B appears to be standing their staring into space.

you need to understand that PVE players do not want to be forced into PvP just so you can try and kill every NPC in the town . By the same token I do understand that PvPer's should not be forced into PVE just be competitive in PvP . I personally feel that PvP in this game(and every other MMO that I have played) is badly implemented since PvP players are forced into PVE before they can do PvP .