PVPers Shafted Again - No Imperial City or PVP Justice in Update 6

eventide03b14a_ESO · December 2014

My only gripe is the console update. It really feels like they are doing everything they can to release a polished version for XBox and PS4. My problem is that while they are busy doing that we have spend the last 8 months paying to beta test the rushed buggy updates for the consoles. The consoles are getting integrated voice and UI made from scratch. Our menu is *** and they haven't done anything to improve it. We can only see the most basic stats on our character sheet and left to wonder what the others are, our mail system is woefully lacking, and the inventory management is laughable. Those are just some of the worst aspects to the menu. After the console release I would really like to see them make some serious improvements to the PC menu. And WTF? Why don't we get an integrated voice?

Leovolao · December 2014

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

Even if they somehow manage to not screw up and provide balance across all 4 classes, the single most terrible issue with Cyrodiil (Lag) right now is not even mentioned, what good does a skill revamp do if I can't use freaking skills during big battles? So yeah, way too positive.

Atropos · December 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

You are right in that it MIGHT indirectly improve gameplay (you assume their ability re-balancing will actually be beneficial), but the fact of the matter is, someone who left in the game in April and resubbed would instantly recognize every single square inch of Cyrodiil (except wonder what happened to the camps), whereas that same person would be completely lost with all the new options, places to go, and things to do in PvE.

That's true, but PvP and PvE are really different beasts. By nature PvP is more unpredictable since it's dynamic player driven content. A PvE dungeon always plays the same way, so PvE players need new content to keep life interesting.

PvP is more of a sandbox, interactions between players create interesting moments. Also, you mention the removal of camps. I feel like that change has helped PvP to happen in places in Cyrodiil where fights never previously used to occur.

I don't think it's necessarily the landscape that makes PvP entertaining, but the experiences you can have that are driven by other players. If players start behaving differently, those PvP experiences also change.

The removal of camps and re-balancing of abilities are both changes that will force players to behave differently in PvP, and those changes in player behavior will make PvP feel more fresh to me than changing the environment of the PvP area itself necessarily would.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hugely looking forward to IC / IC Sewers, but my vote is that ZOS has their priorities in the right place on this one.

Rosveen · December 2014

Of course they pushed it to 2015. Did you really think they'd release such a big update before Christmas? Things are bound to break and these people have lives too, they aren't going to spend their holidays fixing bugs. I'm totally okay with that.

Darklord_Tiberius · December 2014

Leovolao wrote: »

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

Even if they somehow manage to not screw up and provide balance across all 4 classes, the single most terrible issue with Cyrodiil (Lag) right now is not even mentioned, what good does a skill revamp do if I can't use freaking skills during big battles? So yeah, way too positive.

Light attacks only....Light attacks

Rune_Relic · December 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It does shaft PvPers because they are prioritizing the Champion System and even the Justice System before any new PvP content. They are making a choice here, and the choice is in favor of PvE rather than PvP. That is disappointing, because virtually all previous updates have already focused on PvE rather than PvP.

However, if they finally fix Heavy Armor, remove the GCD on Templar skills, fix Templar magicka management, throw some luv to Sorcerors, and introduce an immunity timer to roots, then that will be enough to hold me over till March. But I am doubting that all of this will get done.

Sorry.. but thats total crap.
Champion system will rebalance all classes and all abilities and the way all combat is calculated.
Thats a massive impact on PVE and PVP that means every single monster and dungeon also has to be rebalanced.
IMHO this is the most massive impact update that has been released to date.

AlnilamE · December 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

This really feels like a colossal snub by Zenimax. Everything we need being pushed back another month just to reach PTS.

Champion system.
More balance fixes (stam vs magicka, LA vs MA/HA, Bow, Debuff stacks, etc)

Imperial City likely not out until Q2 of 2015. Not one mention of the MASSIVE lag/latency issues.
Why should I pay for any of this?

I would think that these would be addressed in patch notes, not in a "The Road Ahead" post.

"The Road Ahead: January 2015 - We are going to fix bugs" would be a bit odd.

I may not be as up to date on all the ESO live and other update posts out there, but I always thought that Q2 was when the Imperial City was supposed to come out.

I appreciate that they are taking their time with the Justice System. It's going to be really tricky and making sure the base layer works before they add the most complicated part is sensible.

Maulkin · December 2014

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

I don't mean to sound weird but really? "Comprehensive ability rebalancing" sets your pulses racing? Would you go back to WoW or SWToR or any other other MMO because their next patch has "ability rebalancing"?

As a PvPer what I want to see in order of importance is:
a) Performance fixes
b) Some new content. New objectives, new ways of fighting people (Arena), new terrain etc.

I understand a) is tricky and can take time so I'm hoping for some of b) to keep me sweet and interested.

What I'm getting is PvE updates every 6-8 weeks that without exception have technical issues that have huge knock-on effect in fragile Cyrodiil. I get new content that forces PvPers to spend even more time in PvE to grind skills, passives, gear etc. ZOS have set a trend for that so PvPers are naturally now extremely wary of new PvE updates and that's an understatement.

In the trend that ZOS have set I have become negative enough that I now expect more of the same. More new stuff to grind in PvE while PvP becomes uplayable for days if not weeks.

We didn't come into the game with negativity mate, it's the result of 6 updates that have added nothing new and made things progressively worse and seen the PvP population decline to breaking point. And these last two paragraphs are not opinions, they are easily observed facts.

Kromus · December 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

You are right in that it MIGHT indirectly improve gameplay (you assume their ability re-balancing will actually be beneficial), but the fact of the matter is, someone who left in the game in April and resubbed would instantly recognize every single square inch of Cyrodiil (except wonder what happened to the camps), whereas that same person would be completely lost with all the new options, places to go, and things to do in PvE.

Well said, and with mention of overall game performance in Cyrodiil downgraded in past months with increased lag, number of bugs, with tactics boiled down to zerg vs. zerg it pretty much summarize state of pvp in ESO, 8 months after launch. By this Road "ahead" it seems such state of pvp will be unchanged for at least three to four more months. Sad thing is that I'm sure majority of pvp players wouldn't even care about further delay of more content in pvp if ZOS would only fix current issues that plagues Cyrodiil and add at least one arena (with DSA + LFG already in game shouldn't take much time to go live).

RadioheadSh0t · December 2014

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

I'd rather them fix the lag and remove the Purge bug and the lethal arrow stacking before rebalancing. That is far more important, because no matter what changes you make, they won't matter with continued bug and latency issues. And, with rebalancing, the question is always "so what'll be the next broken ability?"

ZOS has had trouble 'rebalancing' the game before. Oh, Bow sucks? Well make it so two shots makes it impossible to heal. I'm fine with the damage output you get from bows, but the two bugs I mentioned are the two biggest balance issues in PvP. Lethal arrow stacks, but you can't purge it during battle because you'll get WoE'ed to death.

Prove to me you can fix what you already have before I get too excited about 'rebalancing.'

AlnilamE · December 2014

From Patch notes 1.5.6:

Alliance War
General •You can now dispel snare effects from oil catapults.
•You will now slide off of postern gatehouses.
•Fixed an issue where you could mistakenly be teleported back to your starting area as if you had wandered out of bounds in some areas. We are continuing to work on areas where you run into this issue.
•Made some performance changes which may improve client-to-server communication responsiveness during high volume combat situations. We will continue to investigate this issue.

Here's hoping that 1.6 fixes the lag/crashes and ZOS moves on to new content from there.

Edit: Adding quotes where they're supposed to go.

Rylana · December 2014

Maulkin · December 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Turelus · December 2014

If they fix even a third of the bugs in Cyrodiil right now, I can wait another three months for Imperial City.

Agrippa_Invisus · December 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Huh. Table tennis.

Garetth · December 2014

I appreciate that they are taking their time with the Justice System. It's going to be really tricky and making sure the base layer works before they add the most complicated part is sensible.

You mean sensible like when they put stuff on the PTS and have hundreds of people tell them what the bugs are as well as the unbalanced changes and they ignore it all, patch it live and then when these same issues come up on the live server they pretend it's the first time they have heard about it.

Sensible like that?

kijima · December 2014

I'm pretty excited about the console version.

Maulkin · December 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Huh. Table tennis.

This guy gets it

Xsorus · December 2014

Champion System will have more effect on PvP then Imperial City will..

As for the lag in PvP, again..that fix is most likely coming in 1.6..since that's the most logical time for them to remove AoE caps... Once the caps are gone, you'll see a drastic drop in PvP lag.

Junipus · December 2014

I wouldn't be too concerned.

With ZOS' record once they implement PvP in the justice system they'll quickly discover how bad the lag is in Cyrodiil PvP when we go into PvE land, blob up and lag the alliance provinces and crash the PvE side.

THEN they'll put PvP fixes we want as a priority.

Kevinmon · December 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

The one thing that ticks me off the most about this disrespectful decision by ZOS is the excuse that was given as to why the IC was not included: a lack of testing resources.

First off, the ZOS QA team is the Keystone Kops of software QA teams. I am amazed at every single update by the number of major bugs and problems they release which should have been found fixed before going to the PTS, let lobe the live server. I honestly do not think there would be any difference in the content's quality if it was pushed to the PTS without first being reviewed by the ZOS QA team.

Secondly, there is an army of players like myself who would gladly jump onto the PTS and spend days testing this content and log bugs on it if ZOS would turn it over. The content would receive more voluminous and intense real world testing by the player base. We would push the content to its limits and uncover almost every bug to be found before it was released. Hey ZOS, why don't you start utilizing the PTS and the massive numbers of eager, competent and dedicated players who want to make this game the best it can be.

Of course, ZOS would need to start fixing player reported bugs on the PTS - something they have so far refused to do.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why do you guys hate your loyal PVP customers and treat them with such disregard? Are you intentionally trying to drive us away?

AMEN TO THIS!

krim · December 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Champion System will have more effect on PvP then Imperial City will..

As for the lag in PvP, again..that fix is most likely coming in 1.6..since that's the most logical time for them to remove AoE caps... Once the caps are gone, you'll see a drastic drop in PvP lag.

For your sake i hope your right. You have been preaching this for a LONG LONG time.

Scamandros · December 2014

"we firmly believe that ESO is a much better, more stable, and more fun game than it was six months ago." #BestJoke2014

Poxheart · December 2014

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Atropos wrote: »

I understand the frustration at not getting Imperial City, but won't comprehensive ability re-balancing do a lot to make PvP more interesting?

Even if it's not directly "PvP Content", isn't this an update that will indirectly improve gameplay in Cyrodiil? (at least in theory) Or am I just being too positive?

Even if they somehow manage to not screw up and provide balance across all 4 classes, the single most terrible issue with Cyrodiil (Lag) right now is not even mentioned, what good does a skill revamp do if I can't use freaking skills during big battles? So yeah, way too positive.

Light attacks only....Light attacks

Lag on Thornblade NA is so bad at times that even light attacks don't work.

squshy7 · December 2014

...you guys are unbelievable. seriously

Tintinabula · December 2014

My bank account can deal with a what is it?..two month break?..nothing this month.. nothing in Janruary? That's thirty bucks ill put towards Dragon Age...or sims 4.

I55UE5 · December 2014

Rebalancing is more of an issue for myself at this point. While 1.6 will be PvE orientated no doubt, there can easily be small adjustments to PvP as well. After all they said they are bringing FCs back a while ago.

Very excited for Imperial City to make its debut however. By the time it drops in ~3 months there will be more balance in skills and classes, hopefully better latency!

DlSTORTlON · December 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

As a PvPer what I want to see in order of importance is:
a) Performance fixes
b) Some new content. New objectives, new ways of fighting people (Arena), new terrain etc.

I understand a) is tricky and can take time so I'm hoping for some of b) to keep me sweet and interested.

246 days and counting without any of the above.

I wonder what the 'PvP department' are being paid for?! Their implemented work so far:

Postern Doors fixed ✓
Mercenary Mages & Warriors removed (instead of fixed) ✓
Forward Camps removed (instead of fixed) ✓
Campaigns removed ✓
Campaigns renamed ✓
Campaign length reduced ✓
Flaming Oils broken ✓
Siege Weapons despawn quicker ✓
Low Population Bonus & Low Score Bonus 'tweaked' ✓
Extended Chains broken ✓
Dragon Leap reduced ✓
Terrain fixes (still many issues remaining) ✗

Neglected is an understatement for the PvP community. If someone that left the game just after launch logged in now, would they notice any difference?

Cody · December 2014

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

As a PvPer what I want to see in order of importance is:
a) Performance fixes
b) Some new content. New objectives, new ways of fighting people (Arena), new terrain etc.

I understand a) is tricky and can take time so I'm hoping for some of b) to keep me sweet and interested.

246 days and counting without any of the above.

I wonder what the 'PvP department' are being paid for?! Their implemented work so far:

Postern Doors fixed ✓
Mercenary Mages & Warriors removed (instead of fixed) ✓
Forward Camps removed (instead of fixed) ✓
Campaigns removed ✓
Campaigns renamed ✓
Campaign length reduced ✓
Flaming Oils broken ✓
Siege Weapons despawn quicker ✓
Low Population Bonus & Low Score Bonus 'tweaked' ✓
Extended Chains broken ✓
Dragon Leap reduced ✓
Terrain fixes (still many issues remaining) ✗

Neglected is an understatement for the PvP community. If someone that left the game just after launch logged in now, would they notice any difference?

nope

LonePirate · December 2014

The silence from ZOS regarding the lack of fixes and new PVP in the first 8+ months of this game should tell you everything about how they feel about us and our content. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats its PVP community.