woodsro wrote: »

...
2. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and other AOE the same nerf Bolt Escape got - after 1 cast, the next cast within 4 seconds costs 50% more and halves your mana regeneration for 4 seconds.
...

Wonder how different the game would be if all skills functioned like this.

woodsro wrote: »

3. Healing Springs should not restore ultimate unless healing a target thats health is below 100% and nerf Healing Springs/Ultimate generation by 5%-

Spell Symmetry.

Above was just examples, to be honest upping cost would probably be enough, but I personally would rather see siege get preference over AOE. Siege does AOE, does great damage, but it doesn't lag things to death like impulse, wall of elements, etc

Zeni needs to push the focus more towards siege like they removed FC to try and spread things out a bit.

woodsro wrote: »

Hi,

this is just a thought, but i think this im going outline below is how you stop the lag and AOE spamming on PVP.

1. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and and other AOE Diminishing Marginal Returns - This means for each player that is in range of the spell, reduce the damage by 9%, with a max reduction of 54% at 6 targets.

AOE attacks are meant to be supplemental, not the main focus of your attack...PVE/PVP be darned, they can scale dungeon mobs to compensate for the nerf, but AOE should have diminishing returns. if 6 targets are in range of Impulse, damage is reduced by 54%. AOE is meant to be used on 2-3 targets, not 5 or more, if you use it on 5 or more, your returns should be smaller and it should have horrid mana efficiency.

2. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and other AOE the same nerf Bolt Escape got - after 1 cast, the next cast within 4 seconds costs 50% more and halves your mana regeneration for 4 seconds.

3. Healing Springs should not restore ultimate unless healing a target thats health is below 100% and nerf Healing Springs/Ultimate generation by 5%- - This takes away some of the incentive for spamming this skill over and over, and over again, while still being a useful heal. Perhaps also slightly increase its cost.

This deters folks from spamming AOE over and over and lagging the server.

They need to do something to deter this AOE spamming in pVP, it causes too much lag...we have siege, ballista's, etc to use if we want AOE attacks....this will encourage folks to use siege instead of Impulse and the like.

just my 2 cents.

1)Will promote stacking
AoE attacks being supplemental to single-target attacks is a matter of opinion. If a person primarily seeks pvp against groups, why I'll be darned you've found someone who uses single target attacks as supplemental to aoe in regards to finishing off individual opponents!

2)You should not encourage this type of nerf aimed at aoe. Bolt Escape got it's nerf to limit how much a person can escape over a given period of time. It has a..4 second delay before the cost can remain the same, right? The idea is that people can still use the spell but not as a means of completely getting out of battle. To tell people they cannot win a battle with AoE's is like taking a dump on Aoe_BBQ's chest. It'd promote zergballs and clustering which is a major contributor to our Cyrodiil lag. The lag is a bigger problem than people use AoE's against groups (like they should lol).

3)Just take away Healing Springs generating Ult on targets that aren't injured. It already had it's magicka regeneration nerfed. You don't want to nerf it into extinction by punishing people who're using the spell properly. I mean FFS it only affects THREE targets now and it doesn't even heal for that much. People only really use it now for the Ult generation out of combat. What it needs is take that away and then make it usable for healing again with a buff to the number of affected targets to 6.

The AoE spamming isn't causing the lag its large numbers of people in a single area. The AoEs are the only thing discouraging people from clustering up. You have the right intentions but are going about it all wrong. I find asking Why? to every answer until you cannot anymore will get you to the root cause of a problem. You do not want to address symptoms of problems, you want to address the problem itself.

There is lag. Why? Because there are large groups of people together in a small area. Why? To take keeps quickly. Why? To reduce the chances of the enemy successfully gathering and defending a keep. Why? To win the game. There is lag to win the game, and ZoS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

There are AoEs. Why? To kill large clusters of people quickly. Why? To win the battles. Why? To win the game. There are AoEs because people are trying to win the game. To address, this, ZOS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

As you can see the problem isn't AoEs. The underlying problems will still be there, and may even be exacerbated, if you try to address symptoms instead of problems.

Insurrektion wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Hi,

this is just a thought, but i think this im going outline below is how you stop the lag and AOE spamming on PVP.

1. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and and other AOE Diminishing Marginal Returns - This means for each player that is in range of the spell, reduce the damage by 9%, with a max reduction of 54% at 6 targets.

AOE attacks are meant to be supplemental, not the main focus of your attack...PVE/PVP be darned, they can scale dungeon mobs to compensate for the nerf, but AOE should have diminishing returns. if 6 targets are in range of Impulse, damage is reduced by 54%. AOE is meant to be used on 2-3 targets, not 5 or more, if you use it on 5 or more, your returns should be smaller and it should have horrid mana efficiency.

2. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and other AOE the same nerf Bolt Escape got - after 1 cast, the next cast within 4 seconds costs 50% more and halves your mana regeneration for 4 seconds.

3. Healing Springs should not restore ultimate unless healing a target thats health is below 100% and nerf Healing Springs/Ultimate generation by 5%- - This takes away some of the incentive for spamming this skill over and over, and over again, while still being a useful heal. Perhaps also slightly increase its cost.

This deters folks from spamming AOE over and over and lagging the server.

They need to do something to deter this AOE spamming in pVP, it causes too much lag...we have siege, ballista's, etc to use if we want AOE attacks....this will encourage folks to use siege instead of Impulse and the like.

just my 2 cents.

1)Will promote stacking
AoE attacks being supplemental to single-target attacks is a matter of opinion. If a person primarily seeks pvp against groups, why I'll be darned you've found someone who uses single target attacks as supplemental to aoe in regards to finishing off individual opponents!

2)You should not encourage this type of nerf aimed at aoe. Bolt Escape got it's nerf to limit how much a person can escape over a given period of time. It has a..4 second delay before the cost can remain the same, right? The idea is that people can still use the spell but not as a means of completely getting out of battle. To tell people they cannot win a battle with AoE's is like taking a dump on Aoe_BBQ's chest. It'd promote zergballs and clustering which is a major contributor to our Cyrodiil lag. The lag is a bigger problem than people use AoE's against groups (like they should lol).

3)Just take away Healing Springs generating Ult on targets that aren't injured. It already had it's magicka regeneration nerfed. You don't want to nerf it into extinction by punishing people who're using the spell properly. I mean FFS it only affects THREE targets now and it doesn't even heal for that much. People only really use it now for the Ult generation out of combat. What it needs is take that away and then make it usable for healing again with a buff to the number of affected targets to 6.

The AoE spamming isn't causing the lag its large numbers of people in a single area. The AoEs are the only thing discouraging people from clustering up. You have the right intentions but are going about it all wrong. I find asking Why? to every answer until you cannot anymore will get you to the root cause of a problem. You do not want to address symptoms of problems, you want to address the problem itself.

There is lag. Why? Because there are large groups of people together in a small area. Why? To take keeps quickly. Why? To reduce the chances of the enemy successfully gathering and defending a keep. Why? To win the game. There is lag to win the game, and ZoS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

There are AoEs. Why? To kill large clusters of people quickly. Why? To win the battles. Why? To win the game. There are AoEs because people are trying to win the game. To address, this, ZOS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

As you can see the problem isn't AoEs. The underlying problems will still be there, and may even be exacerbated, if you try to address symptoms instead of problems.

AOE spamming IS CAUSING THE LAG even ZoS admits this... Balling up and AOE is a known problem however the solution could be a bigger problem... That is why ZOS is stuck between a rock and a hard place.......

Durham wrote: »

Insurrektion wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Hi,

this is just a thought, but i think this im going outline below is how you stop the lag and AOE spamming on PVP.

1. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and and other AOE Diminishing Marginal Returns - This means for each player that is in range of the spell, reduce the damage by 9%, with a max reduction of 54% at 6 targets.

AOE attacks are meant to be supplemental, not the main focus of your attack...PVE/PVP be darned, they can scale dungeon mobs to compensate for the nerf, but AOE should have diminishing returns. if 6 targets are in range of Impulse, damage is reduced by 54%. AOE is meant to be used on 2-3 targets, not 5 or more, if you use it on 5 or more, your returns should be smaller and it should have horrid mana efficiency.

2. Give Impulse, Wall of Elements, and other AOE the same nerf Bolt Escape got - after 1 cast, the next cast within 4 seconds costs 50% more and halves your mana regeneration for 4 seconds.

3. Healing Springs should not restore ultimate unless healing a target thats health is below 100% and nerf Healing Springs/Ultimate generation by 5%- - This takes away some of the incentive for spamming this skill over and over, and over again, while still being a useful heal. Perhaps also slightly increase its cost.

This deters folks from spamming AOE over and over and lagging the server.

They need to do something to deter this AOE spamming in pVP, it causes too much lag...we have siege, ballista's, etc to use if we want AOE attacks....this will encourage folks to use siege instead of Impulse and the like.

just my 2 cents.

1)Will promote stacking
AoE attacks being supplemental to single-target attacks is a matter of opinion. If a person primarily seeks pvp against groups, why I'll be darned you've found someone who uses single target attacks as supplemental to aoe in regards to finishing off individual opponents!

2)You should not encourage this type of nerf aimed at aoe. Bolt Escape got it's nerf to limit how much a person can escape over a given period of time. It has a..4 second delay before the cost can remain the same, right? The idea is that people can still use the spell but not as a means of completely getting out of battle. To tell people they cannot win a battle with AoE's is like taking a dump on Aoe_BBQ's chest. It'd promote zergballs and clustering which is a major contributor to our Cyrodiil lag. The lag is a bigger problem than people use AoE's against groups (like they should lol).

3)Just take away Healing Springs generating Ult on targets that aren't injured. It already had it's magicka regeneration nerfed. You don't want to nerf it into extinction by punishing people who're using the spell properly. I mean FFS it only affects THREE targets now and it doesn't even heal for that much. People only really use it now for the Ult generation out of combat. What it needs is take that away and then make it usable for healing again with a buff to the number of affected targets to 6.

The AoE spamming isn't causing the lag its large numbers of people in a single area. The AoEs are the only thing discouraging people from clustering up. You have the right intentions but are going about it all wrong. I find asking Why? to every answer until you cannot anymore will get you to the root cause of a problem. You do not want to address symptoms of problems, you want to address the problem itself.

There is lag. Why? Because there are large groups of people together in a small area. Why? To take keeps quickly. Why? To reduce the chances of the enemy successfully gathering and defending a keep. Why? To win the game. There is lag to win the game, and ZoS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

There are AoEs. Why? To kill large clusters of people quickly. Why? To win the battles. Why? To win the game. There are AoEs because people are trying to win the game. To address, this, ZOS should consider upgrading their capabilities.

As you can see the problem isn't AoEs. The underlying problems will still be there, and may even be exacerbated, if you try to address symptoms instead of problems.

AOE spamming IS CAUSING THE LAG even ZoS admits this... Balling up and AOE is a known problem however the solution could be a bigger problem... That is why ZOS is stuck between a rock and a hard place.......

ZOS implemented the FX slider to help people's graphics cards reduce the load so the gameplay is smoother. Your graphics card has nothing to do with the stability of your connection.

PBAOE are hard to balance, either they are OP like impulse or bad like Solar Barrage.

Maybe they just need to remove impulse and replace it with a directional type of AOE perhaps similar to lighting flood where you have to hit the button, aim it, hit the button again. This way you can't just walk around and press 1 button killing everything around you all clumped together.

I really have no prob with wall of elements, it has to be aim and is best used in choke points, it serves its purpose, you don't see folks group walking around spamming WOE that much because it don't work well, but its still a deadly aoe in the right situation such as a wall breech.

I have had to resort to laying daedric mines and using BE to get away from these folks doing this, as it slows them down enough considering most of the time you can't even see the effects to tell when your being hit till your half dead.

Right now this game facilitates and encourages stacking and spamming impulse, the lag this creates with high concentrations of people is ruining the experience.

If folks don't want to Nerf these aoe attacks, then a skill needs to be put into the game that functions like immovable does, but us a direct counter to aoe that makes you immune to aoe for 8 seconds like immovable makes you cc immune, introduce a hard counter to AOE attacks then, and perhaps things will level out. If CC can have a counter with immovable, the I see no reason aoe should not have a hard counter either, because annulment sure don't cut the mustard.

These skills are not broken.

The AoE cap and Zenimax's servers are.

Nice effort, but none of this is needed.
These are smart solutions to a simple problem.
Removing the aoe target cap will suffice to eliminate the problem you try to fix.

If groups can get wiped in one shot by stacking, they won't stack.
If they don't stack, they won't be easy to hit with aoes.
If aoes are harder to use, they won't be spammed.
If aoes aren't spammed, single target instant cast abilities will take over.

It really is as simple as that.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Nice effort, but none of this is needed.
These are smart solutions to a simple problem.
Removing the aoe target cap will suffice to eliminate the problem you try to fix.

If groups can get wiped in one shot by stacking, they won't stack.
If they don't stack, they won't be easy to hit with aoes.
If aoes are harder to use, they won't be spammed.
If aoes aren't spammed, single target instant cast abilities will take over.

It really is as simple as that.

While you and I disagree on AOE caps and their damage, etc etc, one thing I do know for sure is the lagbombs got awful once the cap was put in place.

For those that dont remember, the AOE cap was put in place in the same patch (or the one right before) as the graphics update they did around 1.2.

I have a feeling most of the lag is caused by the calculations for the cap.

I do not support removal of AOE caps for the purpose of "breaking up zergs with smaller numbers" because as ive said before, that logic is flawed and faulty, and mostly rooted in hopes and dreams of badassery...

but if its the calculations serverside that cause the bogdown, then I would support removal in that case. Id rather play a game of OP weapon damage stacked players trying to epeen vs more people than them than deal with constant game stutter/freeze/latency bombs.

I mean at the end of the day, I am one of those people that would serve to benefit the most of my epic damage being delivered wholesale to more people that blob on me anyway. My DK is specifically specced for "bombing" as it were.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

The target cap was actually always there.
There were just a couple "buged" abilities that got fixed in the patch that revealed its presence in the game.
That knowledge is what created the stacking tactics, because before it, no one was doing it, aside perhaps people that noticed it either during beta or early launch.

And indeed, the lag started then.
I think everyone remembers how smooth PvP was during beta and launch and how overnight the lag started as people started stacking.

I don't understand what more proof you need.
History pretty much tells you that, in the context of ESO, target cap = stacking, no target cap = spreading out.
It was the same in Shadowbane and GW2.

And while you don't see the logic, it is perfectly easy to explain.
No one would in their right mind refuse damage mitigation for just stacking on top of its buddy thanks to the cap. And no one in their right mind would stack on their buddy if it meant getting wiped in one easy focus fire.

Its not about math. Its about how the players in this game are. You take a raid of highly specialized DPS machines and take away their caps, and youve just created a deathball no one is going to stop.