Cadwell's Silver and Gold, Do You Like It?

Mordria · November 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

The poll options are slightly limited. Why is there no answer somewhere between "great" and "makes no sense"?

It's a simple yes or no question.

Elsonso · November 2014

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

It is like there are two factions inside ZOS development. One is the PVE/Molag Bal faction where exploring the world is the paramount task. They want things that mix the alliances like cross alliance membership in guilds and Cadwell was their idea.

The other faction is the PVP/Alliance War faction and they want separation between the Alliances because that is the basis for the whole PVP setup.

They both have power and influence in the game that builds and fades, leading to an overall concept that appears somewhat like a multiple personality disorder.

Enodoc · November 2014

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

They wanted you to be able to experience all the content with one character if you wanted to - that was the intention, and for people who only play one character, it's working entirely as intended. (That's the concept that I was referring to above, when I said "I like the concept, but not the current implementation".)

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

MornaBaine · November 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

They wanted you to be able to experience all the content with one character if you wanted to - that was the intention, and for people who only play one character, it's working entirely as intended. (That's the concept that I was referring to above, when I said "I like the concept, but not the current implementation".)

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

I get that. The problem is when, like many players, you like to play MORE than one character. Then this becomes an agony of "OH DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN!"

Mordria · November 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

It is like there are two factions inside ZOS development. One is the PVE/Molag Bal faction where exploring the world is the paramount task. They want things that mix the alliances like cross alliance membership in guilds and Cadwell was their idea.

The other faction is the PVP/Alliance War faction and they want separation between the Alliances because that is the basis for the whole PVP setup.

They both have power and influence in the game that builds and fades, leading to an overall concept that appears somewhat like a multiple personality disorder.

Haha..

Call the asylum!

Enodoc · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

They wanted you to be able to experience all the content with one character if you wanted to - that was the intention, and for people who only play one character, it's working entirely as intended. (That's the concept that I was referring to above, when I said "I like the concept, but not the current implementation".)

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

I get that. The problem is when, like many players, you like to play MORE than one character. Then this becomes an agony of "OH DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN!"

Indeed. And that's the "current implementation" which I don't like.

If Cadwell's Gold became available at VR 1, with the prerequisite that you had at least started Silver and visited the second alliance territory (and therefore Cadwell's line "Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances" is technically accurate at it's basest level), that would open up a lot more choice for Veteran levelling. Also add in the option to choose which one to go to first.

Then make levelling in Cyrodiil more consistent, and add in some new solo-zone (ie, Wrothgar) content at Vet 1+ [not Vet 11+ like Craglorn], and you have a reasonable end-game with viable levelling options across the board, all available straight away:

Cadwell's Silver and Gold, for those who want to experience the other stories
Wrothgar, for those who want the 1-50 experience with different content
Craglorn, for those who want group content
Cyrodiil, for those who want PvP content

MornaBaine · November 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

They wanted you to be able to experience all the content with one character if you wanted to - that was the intention, and for people who only play one character, it's working entirely as intended. (That's the concept that I was referring to above, when I said "I like the concept, but not the current implementation".)

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

I get that. The problem is when, like many players, you like to play MORE than one character. Then this becomes an agony of "OH DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN!"

Indeed. And that's the "current implementation" which I don't like.

If Cadwell's Gold became available at VR 1, with the prerequisite that you had at least started Silver and visited the second alliance territory (and therefore Cadwell's line "Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances" is technically accurate at it's basest level), that would open up a lot more choice for Veteran levelling.
Then make levelling in Cyrodiil more consistent, and add in some new solo-zone (ie, Wrothgar) content at Vet 1+ [not Vet 11+ like Craglorn], and you have a reasonable end-game with viable levelling options across the board, all available straight away:
Cadwell's Silver and Gold, for those who want to experience the other stories

Wrothgar, for those who want the 1-50 experience with different content

Craglorn, for those who want group content

Cyrodiil, for those who want PvP content

OMG I love you. Go work for ZoS RIGHT NAOW!

Merlight · November 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

If you don't want to play in the "alternate reality", then don't. Thank you.

It isn't really an option. Even if I grind through VR instead of questing, I still want skyshards and lorebooks at the very least - and to get to the third alliance I have to complete Cadwell's Silver.

Actually that is the option. It's not like you need all skyshards and lorebooks in the game. I didn't go there, as I don't feel the Mages' Guild ultimate is worth betraying the Covenant. It would be great if I could venture into enemy alliance areas on subversive missions, but I don't think we'll be given three new good storylines... until then, I stay away.

Knootewoot · November 2014

Main storyline and sidequests where great. When i defeated Molag Ball i felt content about the game. But i found silver and gold a drag. Also it just doesn't make sense. Yeah yeah, what IF i washed a shore... but why can i still travel to my main faction? Do i travel in and out of this dream world? What if i complete it, why can i stil come back?

No... NO... NO.. wrong decision. I hoped the "veteran" area's would be just area's to explore. No quests but just to get shards, do dungeons etc. KOS in enemy cities maybe. Or i rather have them leave it out and i had reason to make an alt to explore it.

Now i have one main who did it all. I tried an alt, but since i liked DC story the best i made him DC too. But i play him to molag ball and then quit and play only with main.

Mordria · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

its just boring redoing the factions over an over... that or craglorn grinding.. but the cadwell's stuff is mind numbing i might be less irritated if we can choose which zone we wanted to end up in as our starting vet zone like EP not always in daggerfall ( i cannot express how boring DC is same terrain no change for 3 -4 zones) i'd like vet content to be a lil more freedom like add some more neutral alliance zones or possibly other than craglorn deserts and ravines are a snore fest. i'd like to see maybe visits into daedric realms shivering isles dead lands etc. alternate paths to vet 10-12 other than crag grind and repetitive alternate reality rehash...

Yep, this is the problem for me. It gives me no incentive to roll an alt in another faction since I'm going to get to play though all those factions anyway.

I find this is the case with much of the game. The shared bank, playing through all the factions, shared achievements. It seems they are really going out of their way to make playing an alt as pointless as possible. Which, really makes no business sense because playing more alts = more time playing the game. The way it's set up people are more likely to get bored with their 1 character rather than roll an alt and essentially start a new game. The way it's set up now if I make a new character, I've already seen all the content, my bank is full, and achievements are achieved. What's the point?

Anex · November 2014

I'm torn. I LIKE doing the other quests.. what I HATE is that it is as if all that crap I did against Molag Bal never even happened (kinda how I hate how vampires talk to my vampire character as if she has never heard of a vampire -_-). Oh I have to get my soul back? I HAVE MY SOUL! Seriously? It also severely destroys replay value for other characters.

Vizier · November 2014

Would be better if they'd put a twist into Silver and Gold by inserting you as a spy and saboteur. For the most part the quests would be the same but some could be slightly different and maybe give an alternate option based on that. Add a handful of meetings with a home faction operative you report to and "Walla!" It makes sense and you don't break immersion or role-play.

sztartureb17_ESO · November 2014

The WORST decision made in any game I know and played.

Mordria · November 2014

sztartureb17_ESO wrote: »

The WORST decision made in any game I know and played.

Sadly, I have to agree.

jzak374ub17_ESO · November 2014

It should be optional. With incentive to complete it over time that ISN'T leveling. Who's great idea was this? What a cop-out way to recycle content.

MornaBaine · November 2014

jzak374ub17_ESO wrote: »

It should be optional. With incentive to complete it over time that ISN'T leveling. Who's great idea was this? What a cop-out way to recycle content.

I agree completely. I'm a little flabbergasted by the folks who actually LIKE this.

eventide03b14a_ESO · November 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Get rid of the themepark. Sandbox FTW.

Requires a total rewrite of the game, plus development time, aka not going to happen.

You might get sandbox elements, but you won't get it turning into a sandbox game.

I have no actual expectation that it will come to pass anytime soon. It never should have been this way to begin with. I'm very disappointed that's the direction they took it.

eventide03b14a_ESO · November 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I have a character in each Alliance already that is well on the way to meeting Molag Bal.

As a player, I am getting exposure to each of the Alliances. My characters do not need to experience all three like this.

I am holding out for some alternative to Cadwell that is intended to perform the same leveling function.

It's not just the leveling, you will be missing out on many skill points not just as quest rewards but also because you won't have access to the skyshards.

eventide03b14a_ESO · November 2014

Goresnort wrote: »

Looking at how evenly divided that poll is, and how varied opinions are in this thread, it looks like the path ZoS choose in this matter, was the one that proved most detractive to the game experience, of several different types of player groups.

Of those that wanted to play the same character in the zones of the other factions, many were unhappy that it gave the same quests and story content as actually beeing a member of that opposite faction. They would have preferred content tailored to the fact that you did indeed come from another faction, and thus beeing a continuation of your characters story, and not a restart under a different skin.

Of those players who enjoy playing alts, they lost the option to have three different levelling experiences on their alts, and ended up withe the same on all characters.

Many group content and pve end game oriented players, enjoyed levelling their first faction, but also felt that the first faction campaign on a character was more then long enough at the launch of the game. A continued protracted and slow levelling experience by beeing pushed into the other factions did not sit well with them.

Group oriented players actually recived the worst possible outcome in regards to this issue, since playing the other factions, was scaled into the vet rank progression of the total pve content.

Had the other factions current content not been 'enforced' upon characters of opposite factions, you would actually have landed in the middle ground between multiple sets of player prefrences.

I think the use of the word 'enforced' is somewhat merrited here, because originally the first tier of vet Dungeons for your average player, was vet rank 5 content. Furthermore the trials and group dungeons in lower Craglorn had vet 10-12 content. If you were not inclined to powergrind for xp, but preferred to advance through story content or group quests/dungeons, then that xp difference from Level 50 to vet 5 or vet 10-12 had to come from somewhere. Thus effectivly pushing you into opposite factions content, even though you really did not want to be there. Your only other pve option versus opposite faction questing, was kill mob Y an X number of times, prefrably in Crag.

Had playing the opposite factions content on the same character not been an option, and not been gapfillers in the vet Level scaling within the different tiers of end game pve content, then ZoS would actually landed on a better middle ground for a wider variety of player prefrences.

Players who wanted to see all zones and content, would still fully have the option to do so, simply by rolling an alt in that faction. They would have lost the ability to do it all on the same character, but they would still be able to play all the content that was available.

Players who like to have multiple alts would have had the option of three different levelling experiences, making playing alts much more enjoyable.

Group oriented players would have been able to step straight into Crag group quests/dungeons, vet dungeons and trials. Not, for what many players it felt like, beeing 'locked into' one of the most severe cases of lengthy solo gapfiller pre-endgame levelling prosesses ever launched for an mmo.

I would even argue that not much has changed drastically with the scaling of dungeons. I find it much easier getting dungeon groups on vet 12+ characters, then I do on vet 1 or vet 5 characters. The action is simply most availabe at vet 12+, not below. For levelling up my below vet 10 characters, I still find it more efficient to trudge into the opposite factions zones, when groups for other content are hard to come by. If we were all Level 50, and not spread among 14 different vet ranks, those groups would be somewhat easier to get.

Hopefully, with the future full implementation of the champion system and removal of the vet ranks, doing the other factions zones becomes fully optional sidebar content, instead of 'semi-required' stepping stone content in a pve progression curve.

Even if they removed the main story line from the silver and gold and just made the side quests the focus instead it would make more sense. At least then you are mostly just helping the townsfolk and not committing treason.

Rosveen · November 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

Except this doesn't work for me either. If I'm doing everything with the same character, then it feels as if it's really happening - but landing on a different beach doesn't change who my character is. She's a Bosmer, deeply devoted to her people. If she woke up on Bleakrock, she'd help the refugees like the good-hearted gal she is and then make her way to Valenwood as soon as possible. Maybe she'd help here and there, get caught up in something on the way, but she definitely wouldn't get involved with the defense against the Dominion in Shadowfen.

Am I supposed to consider it all an elaborate dream? Or imagine my character is wearing a different face, seeing through the eyes of some nameless Pact soldier? I'm sorry, but I can't.

Merlight wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

If you don't want to play in the "alternate reality", then don't. Thank you.

It isn't really an option. Even if I grind through VR instead of questing, I still want skyshards and lorebooks at the very least - and to get to the third alliance I have to complete Cadwell's Silver.

Actually that is the option. It's not like you need all skyshards and lorebooks in the game. I didn't go there, as I don't feel the Mages' Guild ultimate is worth betraying the Covenant. It would be great if I could venture into enemy alliance areas on subversive missions, but I don't think we'll be given three new good storylines... until then, I stay away.

I happen to need those skyshards. But they are all I take - I haven't actually started Cadwell's Silver and unless the Champion system unlocks all areas, my main will never see the Covenant. Still, dolmens, world bosses and the like were a pretty good XP source.

Enodoc · November 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

Except this doesn't work for me either. If I'm doing everything with the same character, then it feels as if it's really happening - but landing on a different beach doesn't change who my character is. She's a Bosmer, deeply devoted to her people. If she woke up on Bleakrock, she'd help the refugees like the good-hearted gal she is and then make her way to Valenwood as soon as possible. Maybe she'd help here and there, get caught up in something on the way, but she definitely wouldn't get involved with the defense against the Dominion in Shadowfen.

Am I supposed to consider it all an elaborate dream? Or imagine my character is wearing a different face, seeing through the eyes of some nameless Pact soldier? I'm sorry, but I can't.

Merlight wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

If you don't want to play in the "alternate reality", then don't. Thank you.

It isn't really an option. Even if I grind through VR instead of questing, I still want skyshards and lorebooks at the very least - and to get to the third alliance I have to complete Cadwell's Silver.

Actually that is the option. It's not like you need all skyshards and lorebooks in the game. I didn't go there, as I don't feel the Mages' Guild ultimate is worth betraying the Covenant. It would be great if I could venture into enemy alliance areas on subversive missions, but I don't think we'll be given three new good storylines... until then, I stay away.

I happen to need those skyshards. But they are all I take - I haven't actually started Cadwell's Silver and unless the Champion system unlocks all areas, my main will never see the Covenant. Still, dolmens, world bosses and the like were a pretty good XP source.

Does it bug you to have a quest you'll never complete in your journal? Just wondering

If not, and something along the lines of what I suggested above happens, then you'd end up with two quests you'll never complete in your journal.

So here's a suggestion: as soon as you enter the Silver alliance, Cadwell's Silver auto-completes and removes itself from the journal. Also at this time, you can visit the Harborage and start Cadwell's Gold (as suggested above). Again, as soon as you get to the Gold alliance, that quest completes and removes itself. Then you don't have those quests lounging around in the journal when you don't want to do them.

If/when you later decide to complete the Cadwell quests (which are still listed in the Almanac tab anyway), once they are all completed, the Silver/Gold quest reappears in the journal and directs you back to Cadwell for the reward.

Aoife32001 · November 2014

I love to see the other areas of Tamriel, but I do not care to be playing in the enemy factions. Overall, this feels like a shortcut to give everyone access to all of Tamriel without Zenimax having to put real effort into it.

Rosveen · November 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.

You can still be loyal to your faction. Cadwell is showing you a 'what if' scenario in an alternate timeline, detailing how the other factions reached the culmination point in Messages Across Tamriel and Weight of Three Crowns. The easiest way to learn more about your enemy is to experience events from their point of view.

Except this doesn't work for me either. If I'm doing everything with the same character, then it feels as if it's really happening - but landing on a different beach doesn't change who my character is. She's a Bosmer, deeply devoted to her people. If she woke up on Bleakrock, she'd help the refugees like the good-hearted gal she is and then make her way to Valenwood as soon as possible. Maybe she'd help here and there, get caught up in something on the way, but she definitely wouldn't get involved with the defense against the Dominion in Shadowfen.

Am I supposed to consider it all an elaborate dream? Or imagine my character is wearing a different face, seeing through the eyes of some nameless Pact soldier? I'm sorry, but I can't.

Merlight wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

If you don't want to play in the "alternate reality", then don't. Thank you.

It isn't really an option. Even if I grind through VR instead of questing, I still want skyshards and lorebooks at the very least - and to get to the third alliance I have to complete Cadwell's Silver.

Actually that is the option. It's not like you need all skyshards and lorebooks in the game. I didn't go there, as I don't feel the Mages' Guild ultimate is worth betraying the Covenant. It would be great if I could venture into enemy alliance areas on subversive missions, but I don't think we'll be given three new good storylines... until then, I stay away.

I happen to need those skyshards. But they are all I take - I haven't actually started Cadwell's Silver and unless the Champion system unlocks all areas, my main will never see the Covenant. Still, dolmens, world bosses and the like were a pretty good XP source.

Does it bug you to have a quest you'll never complete in your journal? Just wondering

Not at all.

Technically I started Silver - what I meant is that I never did any of its quests. Anyway, I don't mind having both Silver and Gold in my journal and I love your suggestion.

kijima · November 2014

I've changed my mind on Caldwells Silver and Gold.

I'm AD and loved 1-50 content, I found the fist bit of Caldwells Silver okay but got really old real quick. The rest of Silver felt like a grind that I had to finish and when I got to Gold after beating that Giant which (for me) was more of a fight than Molag, I ditched the rest of Gold and went to PvP and stayed.

However, I wanted a bit of a change and I've recently gone back to Gold, more for skill points at first to help with a build I'm playing with, but I have to say... I'm enjoying Gold now. I found the Rivenspire questlines fantastic, and now I'm in the Alik'r Desert actually enjoying the questlines.

I've been thinking about why I'm enjoying this so much at the moment, and I think it's because it's empty. Sure, killing some bosses solo can be difficult without backup, but it's rewarding when you solo a Boss, at least it is for me and my little Bosmer NB. But I think it's more when I'm doing questlines because it's just me there. I don't have 30 other players running around talking to the same people I'm talking to, it feels a little more personal, actually it fells less MMO than it ever has. When questing, it's nice to have a questing partner to rip through it quickly, but it's also nice to take the time and enjoy the quests for a change of scenery, at least that's why I'm doing atm.

It's agreeing with me.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

I'm still enjoying Cadwell's silver, but I am finding it a grind on my DK, mind you i@m trying to break in new skills, so my utility skills are missing at the minute, which is what's making the difference.

Master_Fluff · November 2014

I like it. Only started CS yesterday, and the hours I spent on Bleakrock Isle were very rewarding: I only saw two other players so I could harvest all the raw materials I wanted without the annoying "oh no, someone else got to it first" reaction so often felt in the 1-50 zones. Which are all awfully overcrowded sometimes, specially in the afternoon/early evening (CET). Not so the Silver/Gold zones, apparently.

MornaBaine · November 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I'm still enjoying Cadwell's silver, but I am finding it a grind on my DK, mind you i@m trying to break in new skills, so my utility skills are missing at the minute, which is what's making the difference.

I don't mind the questing in those zones, I just feel it's completely immersion breaking. My character has no real reason to be there.

wafcatb14_ESO · November 2014

Haven`t done any of the other factions quest grind after finishing my main story and my Factions fighters/mage guild quests.

Just bad game design, to make the game so heavy story driven quest to lvl and, then after finishing all the quests on your faction. they send you to grind all the quests in every zone for the other two factions.

Besides what they should have done was what SWTOR did , and make every class have a complety different main story, that adds replay value, not grinding the other two factions 1-50 zones after doing yours.

Clearly they had no plan for any kind of endgame, with them adding that . and now it was so negatively recieved they are in Awe and completly changing the endgame.

with so many anti-social aspects of the game built in for immersion is great in a single player game , but this is a MMO not single player rpg even it if feels like one 90 % of the time slowly they are fixing it.

MornaBaine · December 2014

So for those of us who DON'T like it...how do you cope with it? Here's what I do so far:
All world bosses, all dungeons (solo, group and public) and all dolmans. I do JUST the quests from Cadwell's almanac and frankly I pretty much click through so fast I have no idea what they are even about. LOL This is in marked contrast to the way I read every bit of quest dialogue whilst leveling up in my faction of choice. I also do Craglorn grind groups with my guildies for further XP and the PvE content available in Cyrodil.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · December 2014

I hated to betray my faction by doing gold /silver. I completed it on one alt. The only reason why my second VR does anything there is to help someone else. In fact, I have the last three zones of silver done on that alt but not the first two.