Reflective Scales Will you ever fix it?

Gorthax · November 2014

so much love finally coming out of the wood works

Brasseurfb16_ESO · November 2014

sagitter wrote: »

The fact is that scales make ranged attacks useless, except for resto staff, bombard, and some other ranged cone maybe.
Force shock should not be reflected cause it's a beam/ray and not a projectile.
A projectile is something at solid state, what is not a beam/ray.

I disagree with your oppinion, it should be reflected. While it definitly doesn't look like a projectile, Force Shock is probably one of the most dangerous tool for a destro staff user. Getting one of the most damaging ranged single target abilities, with triple tap, three elemental effects and an interupt while instant is not something to take lightly and leave unchecked.

You can't interupt that power, blocking it devours trough your stamina and dodging it won't save you either if you want to win the fight. Not to mention, that power has a very low cost, so you can pretty much spam it.

Reflects are one of the few viable counters against that power and it should stay this way. On the other hand, the DK reflect could use more counters, because going melee against a DK isn't always a solution and the game could use more offensive dispelling abilities to offset some self buffs and shielding effects.

AelyinESO · November 2014

They could fix as well, spamming Scales.. that 99% of DK's does.

Could be like streak, a HUGE cost, They did a good job "fixing" it.

Gorthax · November 2014

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

The fact is that scales make ranged attacks useless, except for resto staff, bombard, and some other ranged cone maybe.
Force shock should not be reflected cause it's a beam/ray and not a projectile.
A projectile is something at solid state, what is not a beam/ray.

I disagree with your oppinion, it should be reflected. While it definitly doesn't look like a projectile, Force Shock is probably one of the most dangerous tool for a destro staff user. Getting one of the most damaging ranged single target abilities, with triple tap, three elemental effects and an interupt while instant is not something to take lightly and leave unchecked.

You can't interupt that power, blocking it devours trough your stamina and dodging it won't save you either if you want to win the fight. Not to mention, that power has a very low cost, so you can pretty much spam it.

Reflects are one of the few viable counters against that power and it should stay this way. On the other hand, the DK reflect could use more counters, because going melee against a DK isn't always a solution and the game could use more offensive dispelling abilities to offset some self buffs and shielding effects.

So what you are saying is that since 90% of ALL players in pvp are Flappy bird DK's, you feel crushing shock should not be able to bypass RS even though CS is NOT a projectile? So a sorc who literally has that one move to be able to do anything with when it comes to fighting a DK, should not be able to spam it on them EVEN THOUGH the DK is going to spammy mc flappy bird over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and if you DO somehow manage to get him down to low health, he will press 1 button and use GDB then go back to damn near full health only to start mc flappy bird mode again? Somehow THAT is ok? I seriously fail to see the logic in people defending crushing shock being reflected.

I do not want a nerf to RS, but CS SHOULD NOT be reflected based on the fact that it is a BEAM not a projectile. Just be thankful GDB and RS have not had done to them what BE had done to it when all the DK cried because Sorcs could get away. DK's have god mode activate with GDB and RS spammy mc spam spams yet NO ONE is asking for nerfs on those :P

Wreuntzylla · November 2014

I think the nerf calls will eventually win out because those who are casual about PvP list it pretty high on the no-fun scale. It is going to cause all sorts of other issues, though. Our sorcs don't deal near the burst they could if they did not have to worry about scales being cast after their burst is in the air but not at the target yet.

apostate9 · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
•Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.
•Also I believe only one of the tri attacks from crushing shock is reflected but I could be wrong, I know it used to be this way.
This is the DKs defense spell, every class has it and every class needs it.
DK= Reflect and Cinder
Templar= blazing shield, blinding flashes
NB= shadow image, sap essence
Sorc= Streak, negate
It's all about using the right spec and playing well. The people I see most whine about reflect are sorcs which only have one projectile ability and if they play smart they shouldn't have a problem with DK. Templar has 2 projectiles back can use theor single target reflect which will reflect it back at DK and NB has cripple and funnel health which they also have to use wisely. People whining about the skill on the thread need to l2P.

again, another person NOT getting it....crushing shock is NOT a freaking projectile.......yet it STILL reflects all three... how do I know?! Because it says reflectedx3 when it gets reflected. Yes sorcs have streak, but that got f-ed over because people were complaining.

People complaining about a skill that shuts down spells and skills it SHOULDNT automatically get ridiculed lol I hope HOPE they do to GDB and RS exactly like they did to BE. You spam it you pay more magicka. Would be awesome to see that the tears would be amazing. Maybe then not everyone would be playing a DK S&B in pvp lol

Rage moar.

Gorthax · November 2014

I will rage more yes, since people lack the understanding of what it is I am asking for. Not my fault people cant seem to grasp a simple concept :P I mean if they think I am calling for a nerf then F it

lets call for a nerf. Though that is NOT my intention here ^_~

Gorthax · November 2014

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I think the nerf calls will eventually win out because those who are casual about PvP list it pretty high on the no-fun scale. It is going to cause all sorts of other issues, though. Our sorcs don't deal near the burst they could if they did not have to worry about scales being cast after their burst is in the air but not at the target yet.

No one is actually calling for a nerf here though. Fixing something is not a nerf. The fix in this case being CS being reflected if it is NOT intended. If it is intended then leave it how it is.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

TequilaFire wrote: »

"A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity. By definition, a projectile has a single force that acts upon it - the force of gravity."

Quote source is www.physicsclassroom.com.

Now the only debate is magical energy an "object" and is it affected by gravity?

ooo ooo I know this one ... e=mc^2

Rune_Relic · November 2014

Muizer wrote: »

Does it reflect zombie vomit? It should, you know.

Think I will try /bucketsplash tonight lol

Gorthax · November 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Does it reflect zombie vomit? It should, you know.

Think I will try /bucketsplash tonight lol

I swear to ZoS if it says reflected I will never stop laughing!! I have a DK, and for this experiment I will literally put that skill on my bar and meet you in pvp just to test it ^_^

Brasseurfb16_ESO · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

The fact is that scales make ranged attacks useless, except for resto staff, bombard, and some other ranged cone maybe.
Force shock should not be reflected cause it's a beam/ray and not a projectile.
A projectile is something at solid state, what is not a beam/ray.

I disagree with your oppinion, it should be reflected. While it definitly doesn't look like a projectile, Force Shock is probably one of the most dangerous tool for a destro staff user. Getting one of the most damaging ranged single target abilities, with triple tap, three elemental effects and an interupt while instant is not something to take lightly and leave unchecked.

You can't interupt that power, blocking it devours trough your stamina and dodging it won't save you either if you want to win the fight. Not to mention, that power has a very low cost, so you can pretty much spam it.

Reflects are one of the few viable counters against that power and it should stay this way. On the other hand, the DK reflect could use more counters, because going melee against a DK isn't always a solution and the game could use more offensive dispelling abilities to offset some self buffs and shielding effects.

So what you are saying is that since 90% of ALL players in pvp are Flappy bird DK's, you feel crushing shock should not be able to bypass RS even though CS is NOT a projectile? So a sorc who literally has that one move to be able to do anything with when it comes to fighting a DK, should not be able to spam it on them EVEN THOUGH the DK is going to spammy mc flappy bird over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and if you DO somehow manage to get him down to low health, he will press 1 button and use GDB then go back to damn near full health only to start mc flappy bird mode again? Somehow THAT is ok? I seriously fail to see the logic in people defending crushing shock being reflected.

I do not want a nerf to RS, but CS SHOULD NOT be reflected based on the fact that it is a BEAM not a projectile. Just be thankful GDB and RS have not had done to them what BE had done to it when all the DK cried because Sorcs could get away. DK's have god mode activate with GDB and RS spammy mc spam spams yet NO ONE is asking for nerfs on those :P

No you don't understand me, I'm saying both Crushing Force and Dragon Scales are currently very powerfull tools.

But instead of asking to make Crushing Force even more powerfull than it is (which would be ridiculous), we should add new and fresh abilities that would help counter Dragon Scales and allow the use of Crushing Force right after you counter the Dragon Scales.

Think of it like a Rock / Papper / "Scissors" but with Scissors for real this time.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

yodased wrote: »

you negate RS with 1h+S or 2h. You refuse to do this, so you personally don't negate RS.

RS spam > charge > talons spam > dead.
or did you mean charge > dodge > charge > dodge....crap no stamina ?
lol

Yeah nerf DKs ...they either block all ranged or stun lock you in melee.
Couple that with best DPS and you are always on a hiding to nothing with a competent DK

yodased · November 2014

See this is the point, this isn't a semantics thing. Its not a clarification thing, its simply that people want Crushing Shock to not be reflected so they can kill DKs.

You can type/talk all you want, but its obvious, like completely obvious, that this is a call for the ability for the build you built to be able to kill the DK.

As far as your 90% of players are DK in PvP thats just laughable, so 9 out of every 10 player is a DK and 100% of those players spam RS continually? I mean come on.

Gorthax · November 2014

again, I am not saying I want to be able to kill DK's lol I am SIMPLY saying that IF crushing shock is not meant to be reflected to fix it. It is honestly NOT in my build. I used it once and noticed it was being reflected while I was on my quest to find a build for sorcs that is competative in pvp. That led me to find out it was being reflected and it was very confusing as it is NOT a projectile. Why is that so hard to grasp with you sir?

Yes 90% of people are DK's lol Or should I say IT SEEMS that way? When you go to take a keep and out comes 30+ DK's ALL flapping their wings, I think it is a safe assumption to say it is a MAJORITY of players playing that class and all doing the same thing.

Happened again last night when red went for a scroll. a HUGE chunk of the zerg running in were all flapping wings well running for the scroll. So from my situation yes it appears to be 90%

Again, NOT saying nerf anything NOT saying I want to kill DK's but when you cant even make a build that is competitive because majority of your skills are being reflected (one of which was not supposed to be and 4 months later they addressed it in patch notes without ever confirming it on the multiple complaint threads) and the others dont work or do not deal any where near good dps, yea something is def wrong.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

To be honest I look at this in the same way as stun lock.
I am 1h+s and willing spam stunlock at leisure in PVE.
But I recognise this is just a silly OP way of doing things.
Its supposed to reduce damage done rather than eliminate it completely.
So my suggestions was give the stuns a cool down.

I know ZOS considers cooldowns an anathema, but most armour sets include cooldown shields and such.

So my proposal, is like shields. Make relective scales 1s/4s or similar. This means such things can work as intended but cant be spammed and eliminate 100% damage.
Make buffs/nerfs that can enhance or degrade the timescales.
Same with talons and all cripple/stun/snare/block skills.

Would this solve the problem or not ? You decide.
That was the point of break -free supposedl ymaking you stun immune for 8 seconds was it ? Cant remember but it doesnt work.

Gorthax · November 2014

My suggestion is wait until 1.6 where they are revamping all the skills and doing a major over haul of them. See where it goes. Maybe that is why they are ever so quiet. Maybe they have something up their sleeves. Who knows

Rune_Relic · November 2014

Gorthax wrote: »

My suggestion is wait until 1.6 where they are revamping all the skills and doing a major over haul of them. See where it goes. Maybe that is why they are ever so quiet. Maybe they have something up their sleeves. Who knows

Maybe....so looking forward to see what they have done.

Gorthax · November 2014

I know me too, I hope the reason they are so quiet on the complete unbalance of the game is because they have something amazing in store for us

Jahosefat · November 2014

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

The fact is that scales make ranged attacks useless, except for resto staff, bombard, and some other ranged cone maybe.
Force shock should not be reflected cause it's a beam/ray and not a projectile.
A projectile is something at solid state, what is not a beam/ray.

I disagree with your oppinion, it should be reflected. While it definitly doesn't look like a projectile, Force Shock is probably one of the most dangerous tool for a destro staff user. Getting one of the most damaging ranged single target abilities, with triple tap, three elemental effects and an interupt while instant is not something to take lightly and leave unchecked.

You can't interupt that power, blocking it devours trough your stamina and dodging it won't save you either if you want to win the fight. Not to mention, that power has a very low cost, so you can pretty much spam it.

Reflects are one of the few viable counters against that power and it should stay this way. On the other hand, the DK reflect could use more counters, because going melee against a DK isn't always a solution and the game could use more offensive dispelling abilities to offset some self buffs and shielding effects.

lol I survive crushing shock spam all the time as a sorc no reflect needed

Maybe DKs will have a L2P day when reflective scales gets properly balanced (by changing projectile status of abilities/adding more powerfull channeled abilities that aren't ults).

I don't think crushing shock should be reflected because I think there should be at least one strong ranged counter against reflect. Resto/lightning heavy staff require you to wait for the DK to die of old age---- not fun.