DPS on Trials - Information

eserras7b16_ESO · October 2014

Hi PvE's!

I write this post down because I need information about DPS for Trials. The reason I need this is because our guild has started raiding and we miss DPS for Valariel. I don't only want best builds I accept tips for increasing groups DPS overall too! Our group is formed by 5 Nightblades, 3 Templars, 3 Sorcerers, 1 DragonKnight.

I would really appreciate some experienced players wich raid weekly to help a little bit by sharing experience!

PD: It is important for me that only experienced players respond to the post because i'll get Dizzy if there's a lot of diferent opinions, if you don't really know what you're talking about don't answer please..!! T.T

Thank you so much!

oWOTANo · October 2014

you need more dk´s XD

eserras7b16_ESO · October 2014

oWOTANo wrote: »

you need more dk´s XD

We're a group of people that gets along together so this won't work

! Also, as far as I know Stamina builds are buffed up in a week or two, looking forward to it, I hope nightblades can output same DPS as a DK!

itsBishop · October 2014

Make sure you're running all appropriate raidwide buffs: elemental drain, siphon spirit, combat prayer, power of the light, igneous weapons, etc.

rashkosh127ub17_ESO · October 2014

First and foremost, even if every dps in the raid is a stamina build, you should be able to reach the dps required to kill Varlariel. That being said, if you really need to increase dps, you should make sure that most if not all switch to caster builds. Nightblades should be running veil of blades for the extra dps, and someone should try to keep aggressive warhorn going on the group. If you're still having problems, you might want to look into helping individuals increase their dps by refining their rotation etc.

tengri · October 2014

A properly geared and skilled nightblade with a stick can be almost on equal footing with sorcerers dps wise.

But unfortunately that's the problem, too... nightblades need to go stick+mana or stay home because stamina builds in trials are mostly dead weight.
And (without top of the line gear) you probably can not reach the required dps with a stamina build. End of story.
Yeah, yeah, we all agree it should not be that way. But as of today it is.
A good group can carry one or two "average" stamina builds but not five which are to be the backbone of your dps output...

The skills on my casting NB usually are like this:
Bar1, d-staff, aoe: sap essence, funnel health (crushing shock if mobs need to be interrupted at range), fire ring, incapacitate, inner light, soul harvest (for ultimate generation) or flawless dawnbreaker (against chief).
Bar2: r-staff, execute: crippling grasp, harness magic, impale, spell symmetry, inner light, veil of blades.

Softcap for mana, spell damage and mana regen is a must, as is having at least 2.3-2.4kHP (with food) which stamina builds often lack.
Use spell symmetry and your veil of blades as often as possible and weave heavy attacks; btw, evil hunter works on Valariel, too, for just a little extra.

If you manage to get everyone up to about 700 dps you should be sitting pretty and she wont be a problem much longer...

Aeratus · October 2014

Valariel is simply a matter of (1) not dying, and (2) having enough dps.

The first requirement (not dying) takes some practice. People new to AA trials may have trouble with this part, but after some experience, there should be no problems.

As to the second requirement, I think only 500 dps average is needed. However, if you factor in people dying during the fight, it's better to have 700 dps average.

Not sure about stamina builds, but currently, a relatively high end magicka NB should pull over 1k dps on Valariel. Sorc might be a little lower than magicka NB in terms of maximum damage potential on this boss, but is pretty much the same. This is more than enough to burn down the boss.

CreamDelight · October 2014

You need only 1 Healer for Valariel, so make sure that everybodyelse is dpsing.
No one should die because of the red tears, make sure that everybody is moving correctly.
Its also important that your raid uses the good pots that increase crit/spellpower/weaponpower on cooldown if you lack dps.

Tigeracer · October 2014

Hi. I am a regular in the trials and if you are part of the DC on the NA server, you will recognise my name.

First of all, I have to say that all the things said about nightblades and steam builds is wrong (mostly everything anyway).

A magicka nightblade can hit 1.3-1.6k on average, but some of my guildies can hit over 2k DPS on the storm atro (first boss in AA).

I am a stam DPS build (or magicka tank depending on wether I'm needed to tank or DPS). I hit between 900-1.2k on each boss (regularly hit higher than 1.1k for the first two bosses). I have two guildies, one dual wield (like myself) and one bow, who are able to hit between 1.2-1.6k one every boss).

http://tamrielfoundry.com/forum/classes/nightblade-class/
This site can give you a tonne of advise on how to best build your nightblade, but if you (like me) want to do something different to what everyone else does, I can help you achieve high numbers too.

Now for the breakdown.
At least two of your Templars need Nova (although I have 1 guildie who can do all the novas needed for each boss). They should rotate their nova roles according to each situation. These two Templars should also be healers for best results. It doesn't hurt to also have a sorc healer for backup.
Two of your sorcs should be rocking negate, although again it can be done with one. If you have two or more, they should be on a similar rotation as the temps.
The DK is best used for chaining in mobs for easier AOE spam. That is unless he/she is your tank, which is fine too.
It helps if two of the nightblades are running veil, but it's not necessary with good nova rotations.
You don't want any more than 4 melee DPS as this will make the mage's (final boss of AA) chain lightning hit very hard.

Also, to make things easier, you want (but don't absolutely need) one person running warhorn, elemental drain, rapid manuivers (or the other morph, not sure) and blessed shards (if the tank finds it hard to keep stamina up).

I hope all of this helps you out. If you would like any more info, just let me know.

Shinra · October 2014

As somebody who already played Hel Ra and Aetherian Archive with 12 templars (where at least 8 normally play as healers, so 7 had to swap for damage against Valariel), I can say that your lack of DPS is an illusion.

Team coordination is the keyword here.
(of course you would need max. DPS for each individual player if you want to do speed runs)

With us 12 templars, we just chose 2 DDs for each appearing add (before the fight even started) And after 3 addwaves the boss was down.

Of course, everybody knew beforehand what he had to do during the fight. who had to attack which add as soon as they appeared, who had to use siphon spirit, war horn, or elemental drain, who used barrier in emergencies in case we couldn't kill enough adds (well, we managed to take every add down). And, of course, the tank had to use defensive stance the whole time to get the damage up.
Only one player healed for that boss (or course that healer had to be pretty good), because, well, any more would be unnecessary. So any leftover templars need to do their part in dealing damage.

And it helps to put the graphics down a bit so that all of those red circles on the ground can be avoided easily.

That said, more damage does never hurt and the way to go is for each individual player to look through the internet or just ask somebody how to increase his DPS. And I don't mean that you need to change your build completely, there are good ones for casters as well as stamina builds, for bows, destro staffs, dual wield and even restro staffs.
Well, the basics are high crit and high weapon damage (or spell damage, depends on the build) through set items, amulet and rings, and to practice playing with multiple Dots or that strange light attack weaving. + at least 2400 life (with buff food) and either stamina or magicka softcapped.
Not to forget the best bufffood and the best craftable alchemy potions.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · October 2014

tengri wrote: »

A properly geared and skilled nightblade with a stick can be almost on equal footing with sorcerers dps wise.

But unfortunately that's the problem, too... nightblades need to go stick+mana or stay home because stamina builds in trials are mostly dead weight.
And (without top of the line gear) you probably can not reach the required dps with a stamina build. End of story.
Yeah, yeah, we all agree it should not be that way. But as of today it is.
A good group can carry one or two "average" stamina builds but not five which are to be the backbone of your dps output...

The skills on my casting NB usually are like this:
Bar1, d-staff, aoe: sap essence, funnel health (crushing shock if mobs need to be interrupted at range), fire ring, incapacitate, inner light, soul harvest (for ultimate generation) or flawless dawnbreaker (against chief).
Bar2: r-staff, execute: crippling grasp, harness magic, impale, spell symmetry, inner light, veil of blades.

Softcap for mana, spell damage and mana regen is a must, as is having at least 2.3-2.4kHP (with food) which stamina builds often lack.
Use spell symmetry and your veil of blades as often as possible and weave heavy attacks; btw, evil hunter works on Valariel, too, for just a little extra.

If you manage to get everyone up to about 700 dps you should be sitting pretty and she wont be a problem much longer...

Regading stamina Nb's u are wrong - totaly wrong. I play Redguard stamina dw NB . Regarding bosses i can do : 1,3 k , 1,2 k , 1 k ,950 ( just runed AA two times on my NB and as melee and for sure all numbers can go higher ) . On mobs i do around 2 k . As far as i understand thats more than enough specailly if u know that dps floor limit is around 650.
Mark target, incapacitate, twin blades , rapid strikes , impale. Mark target, incapacitate and twin blades always on. On first two bosses all above plus caltrops and evil hunter. On dps bar u use flawless but just for buffing your heavy attacks. For ultimate veil of blades. Heavy attacks clipping is mandatory if u want to have sustained dps ( just keep pressed your left mouse button). Regarding resources i dont have any issues and i can indefinetely produce that kind of dps as i stated for bosses.
Key stats are : weapon damage, weapon crit, stamina,health above 2400 (spell damage and if u can push magic as high as possible for impale).
All stats should be capped but and magic pool and crit and there u have to have around 60%. If u have without mundus stone buff weap crit above 51% u go after crit damage mundus stone.
Regarding stats after food buffs i have : stam 2498 , mag 1613, Health 2470, weap damage 230 , weap crit 68%, spell damage 137, stam regen 98 . I dont have even one yellow piece of gear on me (except yellow daggers with crit ench on them).
For pots use stamina , weap crit , weap damage ones.
I know that magic builds can beat my numbers but your statement that stamina build is not viable is totaly wrong. After next patch i expect boost in dps output 5-10% and that will bring stam and magic builds at par - at least my NB will than match my pyro DK build.

Hypertionb14_ESO · October 2014

tengri wrote: »

A properly geared and skilled nightblade with a stick can be almost on equal footing with sorcerers dps wise.

But unfortunately that's the problem, too... nightblades need to go stick+mana or stay home because stamina builds in trials are mostly dead weight.
And (without top of the line gear) you probably can not reach the required dps with a stamina build. End of story.
Yeah, yeah, we all agree it should not be that way. But as of today it is.
A good group can carry one or two "average" stamina builds but not five which are to be the backbone of your dps output...

The skills on my casting NB usually are like this:
Bar1, d-staff, aoe: sap essence, funnel health (crushing shock if mobs need to be interrupted at range), fire ring, incapacitate, inner light, soul harvest (for ultimate generation) or flawless dawnbreaker (against chief).
Bar2: r-staff, execute: crippling grasp, harness magic, impale, spell symmetry, inner light, veil of blades.

Softcap for mana, spell damage and mana regen is a must, as is having at least 2.3-2.4kHP (with food) which stamina builds often lack.
Use spell symmetry and your veil of blades as often as possible and weave heavy attacks; btw, evil hunter works on Valariel, too, for just a little extra.

If you manage to get everyone up to about 700 dps you should be sitting pretty and she wont be a problem much longer...

very much wrong... stam builds are capable of well over 700+ dps, with better ones holding 900-1k on live... with the 1.5 changes those builds will be pulling 1k+ easily.

anyways, as long as you have at least 700-800dps from all sources and have no deaths you should be able to handle her.

f your tank is a DK, have them use Reflective Scales the entire fight and they will put out quite a bit of DPS with just the reflected shots..

also due to the nature of the fight, you should only have one of your templars healing, the rest can focus on DPS.. as long as you avoid the ground circles and the tank reflects or at least blocks the shots the others should not be taking any damage except if they use Equilibrium.

TehMagnus · October 2014

You only need 2 templars, 2 sorcs with offheal on their second bar to get negate back up (a good sorc can negate everything alone).

Replace those two new spots with DPS staf wearers DKs.

You can also switch one NB for a DK since DK does more DPS and 2NB is enough for execute phase. Make templars use combat prayer and Nova. You can also have someone using war horn. Have someone putoing Elemental Drain on Boss....

Ban stamina builds.

Shinra · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

You only need 2 templars, 2 sorcs with offheal on their second bar to get negate back up (a good sorc can negate everything alone).

Replace those two new spots with DPS staf wearers DKs.

You can also switch one NB for a DK since DK does more DPS and 2NB is enough for execute phase. Make templars use combat prayer and Nova. You can also have someone using war horn. Have someone putoing Elemental Drain on Boss....

Ban stamina builds.

If it's a group of friends I don't think he wants to switch somebody. And he doesn't need to, anyway.

As I already said, it even works with a group full of templars.

Aeratus · October 2014

Shinra wrote: »

As somebody who already played Hel Ra and Aetherian Archive with 12 templars (where at least 8 normally play as healers, so 7 had to swap for damage against Valariel), I can say that your lack of DPS is an illusion.

^ This. As I mentioned, you probably only need 500 dps average to get through this boss. This is not a high number. Even a v1 can do 500 dps if he knows what he is doing (by contrast, I have seen some fresh craglorn-grind v12 dks not even reach 500 dps).

The usual cause of failure on this boss is people dying. If a 500-grade dps dies in the fight, you would basically need a 1k-grade dps to make up for the loss. Moreover, resurrecting during the battle is not ideal either because the time it takes to res impairs the dps of the remaining members. So completion of this boss is more about avoiding puddles than dps.

Hektlk · October 2014

We've done AA with 12 templars and on a second occasion a full stam DPS team and have been able to clear both times.

GreyBrow · November 2014

tengri wrote: »

A properly geared and skilled nightblade with a stick can be almost on equal footing with sorcerers dps wise.

But unfortunately that's the problem, too... nightblades need to go stick+mana or stay home because stamina builds in trials are mostly dead weight.
And (without top of the line gear) you probably can not reach the required dps with a stamina build. End of story.
Yeah, yeah, we all agree it should not be that way. But as of today it is.
A good group can carry one or two "average" stamina builds but not five which are to be the backbone of your dps output...

The skills on my casting NB usually are like this:
Bar1, d-staff, aoe: sap essence, funnel health (crushing shock if mobs need to be interrupted at range), fire ring, incapacitate, inner light, soul harvest (for ultimate generation) or flawless dawnbreaker (against chief).
Bar2: r-staff, execute: crippling grasp, harness magic, impale, spell symmetry, inner light, veil of blades.

Softcap for mana, spell damage and mana regen is a must, as is having at least 2.3-2.4kHP (with food) which stamina builds often lack.
Use spell symmetry and your veil of blades as often as possible and weave heavy attacks; btw, evil hunter works on Valariel, too, for just a little extra.

If you manage to get everyone up to about 700 dps you should be sitting pretty and she wont be a problem much longer...

NB DPS >>>>> Sorc dps buddy. 1.4 stealth nerf.

Gyudan · November 2014

Make sure your group uses group buffs. Combat prayer and War Horn should help a lot.

lathbury · November 2014

Good use of ultimates make sure they are all hitting the boss as soon as they are up. Except for 1 veil if your group stacks in this and blocks it enables you to leave 1 add up.

TehMagnus · November 2014

Shinra wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

You only need 2 templars, 2 sorcs with offheal on their second bar to get negate back up (a good sorc can negate everything alone).

Replace those two new spots with DPS staf wearers DKs.

You can also switch one NB for a DK since DK does more DPS and 2NB is enough for execute phase. Make templars use combat prayer and Nova. You can also have someone using war horn. Have someone putoing Elemental Drain on Boss....

Ban stamina builds.

If it's a group of friends I don't think he wants to switch somebody. And he doesn't need to, anyway.

As I already said, it even works with a group full of templars.

It also works with 12 people naked without any armor what so ever. What's your point besides proving that the instance is extremely easy for experienced players? And you where bored enough to do a run with 12 templars (since there is no way you'll break any record with that group).

He asked for tips from people who raid weekly successfully and I provided hints to having the most optimized team since his DPS problem comes from the fact he has too many NBs templars, sorcs and only one DK who is prolly tanking in heavy armor all the way.

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Hi,

Thank you all a lot I'll be using a lot of the tips you wrote! Specialy keeping up the debuffs/RaidBuffs always. I'll also encourage my mates to improve in the Stamina builds, and I've got to say... that we were not using Evil Hunter on Valariel T.T I think this will make the difference tomorrow

!

We managed tactics and rotations pretty well

any tips for the last boss in AA?

Aeratus · November 2014

Evil Hunter only worked on Valariel prior to patch 1.4. After patch 1.4, Evil Hunter does not work on her.

lathbury · November 2014

The tank has to ignore the boss and keep aggro on the axes that spawn dps should tab target the boss to help with that. A healer should by near the tank. When the reflections spawn they need to be taken down fast. Try to keep everyone spread to avoid lightning damage. At 30% dodge roll to centre negate needs to be up 100% of the time also have 1 nb save their veil till 15% warhorn can help here.

Cuyler · November 2014

Hi all, sorry to jack this thread but I see a lot of good trials experience here so I'm just going to throw this out there...

Would anyone be willing to take my fresh v14 sorc crushing shock build on AA runs to show me the ropes?

I've had no luck getting groups and my guild ufortunately is focused on trade atm. I would really like to begin learning the ropes/boss mechanics and maybe even join a raid guild if at all possible.

Thanks in advance!

SirEwan · November 2014

Here's my Sorcerer Trials DPS Build. Hope it helps.

Robert_Pendragon · November 2014

I have quite a specific tip that will help your group out.

What you need to do is know exactly when the adds spawn, and drop aoe / ready to aoe the moment they do. You will be able to take a huge chunk of the adds' hp off, and have an easier time killing them.

With your group setup, what you can have is: veils, banner, nova synergy (hit it when they spawn) and impulse.

Dalglish · November 2014

Our setup changes a lot dependant on what guys we have online, I think our current AA time is 8mins 17seconds.

We try to minimise the healing as much as possible (I assume our healer probably puts in around 500 dps aswell as healing our raid). There are only 2 points during the raid that more than 1 person needs to heal.

Group defensive ultimates like nova's,veils and negates have to be put in exact positions and each of our dps hit most bosses for over 1.3k. You need to have all utility running e.g. Siphon Spirit, Elemental Drain, Combat Prayer, War Horn.

My personal record for each of the AA bosses is 1) 2.5k (as NB), 2) 2.1k (as NB) 3) 1.5k (as DK), 4) 1.6k (as DK). Just if you are looking for some guidelines.

When we raid new content we tend to over heal and then start reducing the amount of heals on the group bit by bit. For speed runs you need to be at the limit of survivability vs dps.

Not sure if this helps as I kinda probably said most things that have already been mentioned

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Hi!

Wanted to thank you all again, found your comentaries. Really usefull and I've got some Results to share

!

Last Tuesday we cleared AA and started Hel-Ra! Now I accept Tips for Hel-Ra! We already got the 1st boss down althou it was kinda messy with those AoE's, we didn't have time to continue but next Tuesday we're going for it!

Thank you a lot!