Pictoral evidence of XP problem with 1.5

onlinegamer1 · November 2014

@ZoS_GinaBruno

I wrote an addon which simply takes each EXP reward and shows it as a % of 1 million. This easily lets you know how many of those rewards you'd need to gain a VR level.

I logged into my VR1 Sorc. The results are depicted as follows:

As you can see, to gain a VR level, I'd need the following:
- 2000 monster kills (0.05% each), or
- 1000 quest boss kills (0.09% each), or
- 1000 chests (oddly the same as a quest boss), or
- 10000 exploration points (hahahaha), or
- 133 minor quests, or
- 62 major quests (for some reason, it shows as 2 rewards back to back, just add them together)

Or some combination there of.

This is not possible in one, single Cadwell's Silver/Gold VR zone.

Please increase XP earned ASAP. Its far too low.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Names in thread titles]

Valymer · November 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE

tordr86b16_ESO · November 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFOVSWn0mI

SAY OH MY DAYUM! IF YOU AGREE WITH THE OP.

hammer_fella · November 2014

Valymer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE

^ I seriously get that song in my head at some point just about every day in ESO.

To address the OP, it doesn't seem like your math supports your argument.

For example, there are more than 60 available quests in Stormhaven (the zone I last completed - this also doesn't include any XP from dailies like Writs, Pledges, etc. and I'm not even mentioning PvP). Not all are major quests, but a majority are, and in combination with the other sources of XP you list I expect you'll meet the requirements to level up relatively easily in the course of running through a zone naturally, unless of course it is your intent to grind as fast as humanly possible, in which case I'm afraid I don't sympathize. It's called grinding for a reason.

P.S. Also, you don't get two rewards for Major quests, as you call them. You get the quest XP, and then a large XP bonus from doing all the quests in a particular area and marking the area as complete.

Ohioastro · November 2014

I just ran for ~3.5 hours in a Vr8 zone. Got 200,000 experience, including 7 quests (about 1/6 of the zone). At least at VR8 this is on track for 1 VR level / zone (Rivenspire, Cadwells Gold) and about 17 hours or so, or pretty much what I was doing pre-1.5.

So, bottom line, no change. I think that people aren't doing apples to apples comparisons with what happened before - do you know how many mobs you actually take out on average? Because I got about 58K from quests, 30K from running through the public dungeon with a group. Given that "not much" is the usual for world boss / exp / dolmen , that probably means around 100K from monsters in 3 hours or so. Which is...not unreasonable, especially since they're worth a bit more in a VR8 zone.

Elsonso · November 2014

Don't forget that there is a pending XP bug fix related to quests that has them capped at a lower level than what they intend.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE

^ I seriously get that song in my head at some point just about every day in ESO.

To address the OP, it doesn't seem like your math supports your argument.

For example, there are more than 60 available quests in Stormhaven

Those 60+ quests include major, and varying levels of minor quests. Nowhere near enough to get a level.

onlinegamer1 · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE

^ I seriously get that song in my head at some point just about every day in ESO.

To address the OP, it doesn't seem like your math supports your argument.

For example, there are more than 60 available quests in Stormhaven (the zone I last completed - this also doesn't include any XP from dailies like Writs, Pledges, etc. and I'm not even mentioning PvP). Not all are major quests, but a majority are, and in combination with the other sources of XP you list I expect you'll meet the requirements to level up relatively easily in the course of running through a zone naturally, unless of course it is your intent to grind as fast as humanly possible, in which case I'm afraid I don't sympathize. It's called grinding for a reason.

P.S. Also, you don't get two rewards for Major quests, as you call them. You get the quest XP, and then a large XP bonus from doing all the quests in a particular area and marking the area as complete.

I'm going to go ahead and call your bluff.

Post all the quests in Stormhaven and their XP.

Note: The ESO Wiki has the complete list of quests and POIs and delves and world bosses and dolmens - go ahead - post specifics.

Robocles · November 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

I just ran for ~3.5 hours in a Vr8 zone. Got 200,000 experience, including 7 quests (about 1/6 of the zone). At least at VR8 this is on track for 1 VR level / zone (Rivenspire, Cadwells Gold) and about 17 hours or so, or pretty much what I was doing pre-1.5.

So, bottom line, no change. I think that people aren't doing apples to apples comparisons with what happened before - do you know how many mobs you actually take out on average? Because I got about 58K from quests, 30K from running through the public dungeon with a group. Given that "not much" is the usual for world boss / exp / dolmen , that probably means around 100K from monsters in 3 hours or so. Which is...not unreasonable, especially since they're worth a bit more in a VR8 zone.

You got 58k from what quests?

You keep spewing this... back it up.

hammer_fella · November 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and call your bluff.

Post all the quests in Stormhaven and their XP.

Note: The ESO Wiki has the complete list of quests and POIs and delves and world bosses and dolmens - go ahead - post specifics.

There's no bluff to call. Nothing I said is in dispute. Your own numbers prove my point. You want to go tally all the XP from each individual quest, be my guest.

For the sake of argument:

Let's imagine 30 quests are major quests. That is 50% of the XP required.

Let's imagine 35 quests are minor quests. That is 25% of the XP required.

Kill 500 monsters and/or some chest looting/world bosses/exploration/whatever other granularity I'm too lazy to compute and you very easily get your other 25% of the XP required.

Not rocket science.

Robocles · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE

^ I seriously get that song in my head at some point just about every day in ESO.

To address the OP, it doesn't seem like your math supports your argument.

For example, there are more than 60 available quests in Stormhaven (the zone I last completed - this also doesn't include any XP from dailies like Writs, Pledges, etc. and I'm not even mentioning PvP). Not all are major quests, but a majority are, and in combination with the other sources of XP you list I expect you'll meet the requirements to level up relatively easily in the course of running through a zone naturally, unless of course it is your intent to grind as fast as humanly possible, in which case I'm afraid I don't sympathize. It's called grinding for a reason.

P.S. Also, you don't get two rewards for Major quests, as you call them. You get the quest XP, and then a large XP bonus from doing all the quests in a particular area and marking the area as complete.

Post your XP rewards, in the current game.

And... PS... can you even tell us what the XP bonus is for doing the quests now? I'll wait.

Robocles · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and call your bluff.

Post all the quests in Stormhaven and their XP.

Note: The ESO Wiki has the complete list of quests and POIs and delves and world bosses and dolmens - go ahead - post specifics.

There's no bluff to call. Nothing I said is in dispute. Your own numbers prove my point. You want to go tally all the XP from each individual quest, be my guest.

For the sake of argument:

Let's imagine 30 quests are major quests. That is 50% of the XP required.

Let's imagine 35 quests are minor quests. That is 25% of the XP required.

Kill 500 monsters and/or some chest looting/world bosses/exploration/whatever other granularity I'm too lazy to compute and you very easily get your other 25% of the XP required.

Not rocket science.

Know what... not gonna even say that... just post your results.

hammer_fella · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

Post your XP rewards, in the current game.

And... PS... can you even tell us what the XP bonus is for doing the quests now? I'll wait.

I'm using the numbers the OP provided which are the basis for the thread... combined with a liberal dose of common sense and basic logic.

hammer_fella · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

ROFL! How many quests do you think there are per zone?

I already said I just finished completing Stormhaven which has an achievement for completing 60 quests. There are actually several more in the zone. What game are you playing?

Sneak_Thief · November 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

I just ran for ~3.5 hours in a Vr8 zone. Got 200,000 experience, including 7 quests (about 1/6 of the zone). At least at VR8 this is on track for 1 VR level / zone (Rivenspire, Cadwells Gold) and about 17 hours or so, or pretty much what I was doing pre-1.5.

So, bottom line, no change. I think that people aren't doing apples to apples comparisons with what happened before - do you know how many mobs you actually take out on average? Because I got about 58K from quests, 30K from running through the public dungeon with a group. Given that "not much" is the usual for world boss / exp / dolmen , that probably means around 100K from monsters in 3 hours or so. Which is...not unreasonable, especially since they're worth a bit more in a VR8 zone.

Yeah the whole idea they made it easier to level is ludicrous. I have a similar thread but more Grind vs Quest xp. But I did discover with my own testing you can grind craglorn mobs (no bosses) for 1 hour and get around 250k (1/4lv).. pre patch it was 1/2 a level for 1 hour. So while WBs dont put out, grinding is still viable, just slower than before.

Robocles · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Post your XP rewards, in the current game.

And... PS... can you even tell us what the XP bonus is for doing the quests now? I'll wait.

I'm using the numbers the OP provided which are the basis for the thread... combined with a liberal dose of common sense and basic logic.

So you extrapolated with your own numbers... what was YOUR xp bonus?

Robocles · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

ROFL! How many quests do you think there are per zone?

I already said I just finished completing Stormhaven which has an achievement for completing 60 quests. There are actually several more in the zone. What game are you playing?

OH... so now you did all of Stormhaven tonight?

Edit: As I reread your post... you post that a majority of quests are "major", then that 30 of 65 are "major". You provide no information, no xp rewards for the cadwell lines or of the other minor lines that might qualify. You just say he's wrong based on your loose numbers. I'm open to a reasoned argument. Provide one.

hammer_fella · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

So you extrapolated with your own numbers... what was YOUR xp bonus?

For the 27th time... I'm extrapolating the OP's numbers.

Robocles wrote: »

OH... so now you did all of Stormhaven tonight?

At no point did I say I completed the entirety of zone in one night, only that I finished the last of the quests in Stormhaven recently and so that was fresh in my mind...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Robocles · November 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

So you extrapolated with your own numbers... what was YOUR xp bonus?

For the 27th time... I'm extrapolating the OP's numbers.

Robocles wrote: »

OH... so now you did all of Stormhaven tonight?

At no point did I say I completed the entirety of zone in one night, only that I finished the last of the quests in Stormhaven recently and so that was fresh in my mind... are you learning impaired or do you just get a hard-on whenever facts fly in the face of your gut feelings?

27th time... hyperbole much?

Ok... so you extrapolated someones else's numbers... I'll buy that.

So you have no direct argument.

Thanks.

onlinegamer1 · November 2014

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/30/eso-stormhaven-quest-guide/

There are no Main Quests, Fighters Guild quests, or Mage Guild quests in VR content.

Therefore, there are 71 total quests in the zone, which includes even "delve" quests (the quests you can get while in delves).

Minor quests are 0.75% of the total, each.
Major quests are 1.6% of the total, each.

Cadwell's Silver contains 5 quest chains (5 major quests).

Therefore, there are 66 minor quests and 5 major quests in the zone.

66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all quests.

Are you saying that kills, dolmens, exploration (ROFLMAO!) and chest XP will get you the other 42.5% XP and that THAT isn't an XP nerf and a requirement for massive grinding?

o.O

hammer_fella · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

Edit: As I reread your post... you post that a majority of quests are "major", then that 30 of 65 are "major". You provide no information, no xp rewards for the cadwell lines or of the other minor lines that might qualify. You just say he's wrong based on your loose numbers. I'm open to a reasoned argument. Provide one.

Try reading it again, because I also said "for the sake of argument," again, to provide some simple application giving context to the OP's numbers.

I didn't think it was an unreasonable guess to suggest a roughly half and half split between major/minor quests (based on my experience playing the game over the last 6 months+) but even if we decrease the number of majors and increase the number of minors (say, to 20 and 45 respectively) it doesn't radically affect my numbers. The majors would account for 33% as would the minors, accounting for a total 66% from questing as opposed to the 75% I said before. Again, not radical, just 9% difference - 180 monsters by OPs count. Another guess, but I think it is within a very reasonable range.

Robocles wrote: »

27th time... hyperbole much?

Ok... so you extrapolated someones else's numbers... I'll buy that.

So you have no direct argument.

Thanks.

I didn't realize I was required to form a 'direct argument.' I was responding to the premise of the OP. That is how threads work.

But it's been my pleasure. Feel free to give me a shout if you ever need any tutoring in basic English or Mathematics.

Hazadus76 · November 2014

Fella, u have no argument or point. Your numbers are baseless. No disrespect intended.

hammer_fella · November 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/30/eso-stormhaven-quest-guide/

There are no Main Quests, Fighters Guild quests, or Mage Guild quests in VR content.

Therefore, there are 71 total quests in the zone, which includes even "delve" quests (the quests you can get while in delves).

Minor quests are 0.75% of the total, each.
Major quests are 1.6% of the total, each.

Cadwell's Silver contains 5 quest chains (5 major quests).

Therefore, there are 66 minor quests and 5 major quests in the zone.

66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all quests.

Are you saying that kills, dolmens, exploration (ROFLMAO!) and chest XP will get you the other 42.5% XP and that THAT isn't an XP nerf and a requirement for massive grinding?

o.O

You are certain ONLY Cadwell's quest chains count as 'major quests'?

This is not my impression - there are typically main quests for most areas in the game along with a supporting quest which requires less effort to complete and gives less XP. This was what I envisioned when you said minor/major. If only the Cadwell chains count as majors that would definitely make my estimates optimistic.

Ohioastro · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

I just ran for ~3.5 hours in a Vr8 zone. Got 200,000 experience, including 7 quests (about 1/6 of the zone). At least at VR8 this is on track for 1 VR level / zone (Rivenspire, Cadwells Gold) and about 17 hours or so, or pretty much what I was doing pre-1.5.

So, bottom line, no change. I think that people aren't doing apples to apples comparisons with what happened before - do you know how many mobs you actually take out on average? Because I got about 58K from quests, 30K from running through the public dungeon with a group. Given that "not much" is the usual for world boss / exp / dolmen , that probably means around 100K from monsters in 3 hours or so. Which is...not unreasonable, especially since they're worth a bit more in a VR8 zone.

You got 58k from what quests?

You keep spewing this... back it up.

You're being abusive towards anyone who says anything you dislike, while providing absolutely no evidence yourself. I *did* tell you what I did. To be specific - I had already done Shornhelm, headed west, knocked out the ones on that side. If you don't believe me, there's nothing I can say to convince you. Also a dolmen, 2 world bosses, and (as mentioned) about 30K from public dungeons (not counted in the 58K). FYI - after that post, another 100K polishing off a couple of delves, turning the quests in, and another couple of quests (around hoarfrost, if you must know.)

AssaultLemming · November 2014

2000 mobs doesn't sound so bad really, how many do you think you would kill while doing all the quests and dolmens and delves in a zone?

Audigy · November 2014

The combination of things matters now, so that you have to do everything in a zone and not just killing mobs.

Exploring could be higher but I think it would be wrong to buff one of the other as this would lead once again to grinding specific spots and not playing the actual game.

If you quest, then you also kill mobs, level your professions, explore and do a dungeon, join a world event or pvp from time to time. All this grants you XP and if you do that then leveling up is not an issue.

Epona222 · November 2014

Well tonight I was doing stuff with my guild, and actually it seemed as though my xp gains were OK - we finished off the Upper Craglorn questline (so so pleased about that!), then some of us went to do city quests in Cyrodil, we were playing for a good few hours, but I went from halfway through VR9 and I think I am only a small number of points away from VR10. Obviously the UI display of how far you are along the bar to the next level is wrong at the moment, but I think I am near to hitting VR10.
Also I'd have to play some solo quest stuff to see how that worked out in terms of XP, I'll give that a go later.

zaria · November 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

Don't forget that there is a pending XP bug fix related to quests that has them capped at a lower level than what they intend.

yes, earlier the faction main quest was an huge part of the xp you got in the VR zone, some says the majority.

Syntse · November 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all quests.

Are you saying that kills, dolmens, exploration (ROFLMAO!) and chest XP will get you the other 42.5% XP and that THAT isn't an XP nerf and a requirement for massive grinding?

This investigation might need bit more in depth than just minor and major quest
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/139486/experience-versus-veteran-point-gain

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:
We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
Very Easy = .1

Easy = .75

Standard = 1

Hard = 1.5

Very Hard = 2.25

Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”

Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”

We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

onlinegamer1 · November 2014

Syntse wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

66 minor quests = 49.5% of your level.
5 major quests = 8% of your level.
Total: 57.5% of your level from all quests.

Are you saying that kills, dolmens, exploration (ROFLMAO!) and chest XP will get you the other 42.5% XP and that THAT isn't an XP nerf and a requirement for massive grinding?

This investigation might need bit more in depth than just minor and major quest
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/139486/experience-versus-veteran-point-gain

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:
We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
Very Easy = .1

Easy = .75

Standard = 1

Hard = 1.5

Very Hard = 2.25

Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”

Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”

We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

No, it doesn't. Only the Very Hard (aka major quests I refer to) give meaningfully more XP. .75, 1 and 1.5 are not much in the way of variation. 4000 becomes 3000 or 6000. Insignificant. 4000 becoming 9000 is much more significant. Therefore, all quests other than "Very Hard" are essentially the same.

Do I really need to post the value of Dolmens, delve completions, and world bosses to prove there is not enough XP in a VR Zone without grinding your face off now?

Syntse · November 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Do I really need to post the value of Dolmens, delve completions, and world bosses to prove there is not enough XP in a VR Zone without grinding your face off now?

I would say that would be good in order to have complete picture and leverage on devs. I always support thorough investigations on these matters since wondering myself too if questing in vets is worth it currently.