Cadwell's Silver and Gold, Do You Like It?

AlexDougherty · November 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Get rid of the themepark. Sandbox FTW.

Requires a total rewrite of the game, plus development time, aka not going to happen.

You might get sandbox elements, but you won't get it turning into a sandbox game.

radiostar · November 2014

I wonder why we can't choose which zone to go to, or have both open at once?

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · November 2014

I found it tolerable enough after I got going on my main. Personally, I always found the writing to be one of the strongest points of ESO, which was why I was so surprised by the lame explanation for Cadwell's gold and silver.

After putting it off for a couple of months, I finally got started and realized it wasn't so bad. (I like questing) The problem was that it required me to divorce my toon, from the character I had created for her. I'm not even an RPer, so I realize how that can through a wrench into someone's enjoyment of the game.

Assisting innocents in other alliances, makes some sense. Still, when it comes to aiding opposing alliances to the point of single handedly stopping an invasion from your home alliance, well, it gets difficult to suspend disbelief.

Anvos · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Anvos wrote: »

I like it as its nice to see the other faction's story without going through all the mundane low level stuff again.

But that is pretty much exactly what you are doing...it's just someone else's low level stuff only...harder.

The mundane low stuff as in, having to buy bank and inventory spaces, your horse, leveling said horse, acquiring motifs, acquiring recipes, acquiring basic crafting items, having to replay the same guild and main quest storylines, researching traits for crafting, balancing crafting progression with skill progression, and leveling character and skills.

Without all that you can focus on the alliance stuff and get through much quicker.

Unrelated to the response there is also the fact that its interesting to see how the other alliances got to the meeting that organized the assault on Coldharbor.

Plus I get a distinct feeling you were originally planned to have to play all 3 alliances before invading Coldharbor from some things such as void crafting resources fitting in with Coldharbor and how the other two leaders accept your call for talks so readily.

PlagueMonk · November 2014

I enjoyed running through all of the quests once BUT now there is nothing unique for my next character in another faction. I will be repeating all the same quests.....again, just in a different order (but I don't have any interest in doing the silver and gold on more than one toon)

That's what I liked even about DAoC's PvE. If I decided to roll a Hib, every single quest, as would that factions world, would be new and different.

Always felt like a way to "extend" content for one toon w/o having to actually make more. Clever in some ways but with its obvious drawbacks.

Elsonso · November 2014

I have a character in each Alliance already that is well on the way to meeting Molag Bal.

As a player, I am getting exposure to each of the Alliances. My characters do not need to experience all three like this.

I am holding out for some alternative to Cadwell that is intended to perform the same leveling function.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I have a character in each Alliance already that is well on the way to meeting Molag Bal.

As a player, I am getting exposure to each of the Alliances. My characters do not need to experience all three like this.

I am holding out for some alternative to Cadwell that is intended to perform the same leveling function.

Yes, me too. But fortunately for me they are all different classes, so I can see how they do in each zone, and they all have different personalities.

Blud · November 2014

zaria wrote: »

The only real problem is then you fight your own alliance, however most of this can be skipped as its optional quests.

Maybe we could unlock a title after killing the first of our own alliance:

Traitor

Kikazaru · November 2014

Yes, exploration and adventuring comes first before my allegiance to our beloved queen. But, I am truly sorry for slaughtering many of my Dominion brethrens while questing in the opposing alliances! Some of them had it coming for attacking me, it's not my fault!

Goresnort · November 2014

Looking at how evenly divided that poll is, and how varied opinions are in this thread, it looks like the path ZoS choose in this matter, was the one that proved most detractive to the game experience, of several different types of player groups.

Of those that wanted to play the same character in the zones of the other factions, many were unhappy that it gave the same quests and story content as actually beeing a member of that opposite faction. They would have preferred content tailored to the fact that you did indeed come from another faction, and thus beeing a continuation of your characters story, and not a restart under a different skin.

Of those players who enjoy playing alts, they lost the option to have three different levelling experiences on their alts, and ended up withe the same on all characters.

Many group content and pve end game oriented players, enjoyed levelling their first faction, but also felt that the first faction campaign on a character was more then long enough at the launch of the game. A continued protracted and slow levelling experience by beeing pushed into the other factions did not sit well with them.

Group oriented players actually recived the worst possible outcome in regards to this issue, since playing the other factions, was scaled into the vet rank progression of the total pve content.

Had the other factions current content not been 'enforced' upon characters of opposite factions, you would actually have landed in the middle ground between multiple sets of player prefrences.

I think the use of the word 'enforced' is somewhat merrited here, because originally the first tier of vet Dungeons for your average player, was vet rank 5 content. Furthermore the trials and group dungeons in lower Craglorn had vet 10-12 content. If you were not inclined to powergrind for xp, but preferred to advance through story content or group quests/dungeons, then that xp difference from Level 50 to vet 5 or vet 10-12 had to come from somewhere. Thus effectivly pushing you into opposite factions content, even though you really did not want to be there. Your only other pve option versus opposite faction questing, was kill mob Y an X number of times, prefrably in Crag.

Had playing the opposite factions content on the same character not been an option, and not been gapfillers in the vet Level scaling within the different tiers of end game pve content, then ZoS would actually landed on a better middle ground for a wider variety of player prefrences.

Players who wanted to see all zones and content, would still fully have the option to do so, simply by rolling an alt in that faction. They would have lost the ability to do it all on the same character, but they would still be able to play all the content that was available.

Players who like to have multiple alts would have had the option of three different levelling experiences, making playing alts much more enjoyable.

Group oriented players would have been able to step straight into Crag group quests/dungeons, vet dungeons and trials. Not, for what many players it felt like, beeing 'locked into' one of the most severe cases of lengthy solo gapfiller pre-endgame levelling prosesses ever launched for an mmo.

I would even argue that not much has changed drastically with the scaling of dungeons. I find it much easier getting dungeon groups on vet 12+ characters, then I do on vet 1 or vet 5 characters. The action is simply most availabe at vet 12+, not below. For levelling up my below vet 10 characters, I still find it more efficient to trudge into the opposite factions zones, when groups for other content are hard to come by. If we were all Level 50, and not spread among 14 different vet ranks, those groups would be somewhat easier to get.

Hopefully, with the future full implementation of the champion system and removal of the vet ranks, doing the other factions zones becomes fully optional sidebar content, instead of 'semi-required' stepping stone content in a pve progression curve.

moesmaker · November 2014

couldn't agree more, this is exactly what I think about it

Bandras · November 2014

When the game was released I thought that I was going to start different toons for the different alliances.

Then when I realised what the dev's idea was for 50+ content I got a bit frustrated but I managed to level a toon to mx level and I enjoyed some of the quests as well, though I have to admit by the time I finished the quests Id gotten sick of all teh quests.

In my oppinion the whole concept is a failure. They should have kept the max lvl at lvl 50 and then open the adventure zones later. They should have forgotten about veteran levels at all.

This version would have given time for alts and experiencing the other factions. The adventure zones should have been shared areas and then everybody would have been happy.

I still think it is not too late for that (now that teh champion system is getting implemented...sooner or later).

The only thing they should now change regarding Craglorn and Upper Craglorn quests is that anyone could join the quest holder at any stage. Then ppl might do these more often. Nowadays it is quite hard to find groups for these quests.

Getting xp is also an issue now. I know that the next lvl xp requirement will be reduced to 1 mill in today's patch but that is still a lot. Completing the area main quest chain should grant you enough xp to lvl up and continue to the next area. If you want to spend some more time in the given area then that would be some extra xp.

This way you might want to lvl more toons becuase then you would still have the opportunity to do quests you did not do with your previous toon.

The main story should only be available for the main toon only or at least we should have the option to select if we want to do that again or not. I am already sick of doing the Harborage quests and I am only lvling my second toon now. I would liek to lvl one more but I really dont want to do all those stupid quests once again.

We can skip the tutorial Coldharbor quests, we should have the same option to skip the rest of those quests.

Uhh, this post is getting too long, anyways, Caldwell's silver and gold are only copper imo.

MornaBaine · November 2014

Goresnort wrote: »

Looking at how evenly divided that poll is, and how varied opinions are in this thread, it looks like the path ZoS choose in this matter, was the one that proved most detractive to the game experience, of several different types of player groups.

Of those that wanted to play the same character in the zones of the other factions, many were unhappy that it gave the same quests and story content as actually beeing a member of that opposite faction. They would have preferred content tailored to the fact that you did indeed come from another faction, and thus beeing a continuation of your characters story, and not a restart under a different skin.

Of those players who enjoy playing alts, they lost the option to have three different levelling experiences on their alts, and ended up withe the same on all characters.

Many group content and pve end game oriented players, enjoyed levelling their first faction, but also felt that the first faction campaign on a character was more then long enough at the launch of the game. A continued protracted and slow levelling experience by beeing pushed into the other factions did not sit well with them.

Group oriented players actually recived the worst possible outcome in regards to this issue, since playing the other factions, was scaled into the vet rank progression of the total pve content.

Had the other factions current content not been 'enforced' upon characters of opposite factions, you would actually have landed in the middle ground between multiple sets of player prefrences.

I think the use of the word 'enforced' is somewhat merrited here, because originally the first tier of vet Dungeons for your average player, was vet rank 5 content. Furthermore the trials and group dungeons in lower Craglorn had vet 10-12 content. If you were not inclined to powergrind for xp, but preferred to advance through story content or group quests/dungeons, then that xp difference from Level 50 to vet 5 or vet 10-12 had to come from somewhere. Thus effectivly pushing you into opposite factions content, even though you really did not want to be there. Your only other pve option versus opposite faction questing, was kill mob Y an X number of times, prefrably in Crag.

Had playing the opposite factions content on the same character not been an option, and not been gapfillers in the vet Level scaling within the different tiers of end game pve content, then ZoS would actually landed on a better middle ground for a wider variety of player prefrences.

Players who wanted to see all zones and content, would still fully have the option to do so, simply by rolling an alt in that faction. They would have lost the ability to do it all on the same character, but they would still be able to play all the content that was available.

Players who like to have multiple alts would have had the option of three different levelling experiences, making playing alts much more enjoyable.

Group oriented players would have been able to step straight into Crag group quests/dungeons, vet dungeons and trials. Not, for what many players it felt like, beeing 'locked into' one of the most severe cases of lengthy solo gapfiller pre-endgame levelling prosesses ever launched for an mmo.

I would even argue that not much has changed drastically with the scaling of dungeons. I find it much easier getting dungeon groups on vet 12+ characters, then I do on vet 1 or vet 5 characters. The action is simply most availabe at vet 12+, not below. For levelling up my below vet 10 characters, I still find it more efficient to trudge into the opposite factions zones, when groups for other content are hard to come by. If we were all Level 50, and not spread among 14 different vet ranks, those groups would be somewhat easier to get.

Hopefully, with the future full implementation of the champion system and removal of the vet ranks, doing the other factions zones becomes fully optional sidebar content, instead of 'semi-required' stepping stone content in a pve progression curve.

This may be the best summation of the problem with Silver and Gold yet. I just hope someone at ZoS reads it.

indigoblades · November 2014

Its ok considering it took them very little time to give us 3x the vet quest. The Caldwell explanation could have been better tho.

Again, I have mixed feelings. The questing at vet level seems somewhat artificial and i probably would enjoy it more with an Alt below level 50 than as vet. But the game probably would of released MUCH MUCH MUCH later if they made all new vet solo quest vs the Caldwell method. It is end game, so what can one expect.

One thing they could of done is give less exp for Caldwell and more exp for pvp, crafting or solo kills (or kills in small group). Me personally i never was fan of large grind groups in Crag tho.

Leeric · November 2014

Its stupid. Pretty much kills the point of leveling another faction.

Head.hunter · November 2014

It's fun the first time around but I can't see myself regrinding/leveling a second character to vr12-14.

nalimoleb14_ESO · November 2014

While Caldwell's Silver/Gold doesn't really make sense, and I don't like the whole "you're experiencing the other factions through the eyes of the enemy" explanation, I don't like to complain too much because I absolutely hate, hate leveling alts. I'd rather focus on one character in any MMO, so it's a relief for me that I get to explore all of the quests/zones in the game without having to create two other toons.

quadraxis666 · November 2014

No, I absolutely detest it, its put me off wanting to roll an alt in another faction simply because it means I'll be doing something I've already had to do. the quests aren't fun, there really needs to be a better way to level alts.

MornaBaine · November 2014

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

While Caldwell's Silver/Gold doesn't really make sense, and I don't like the whole "you're experiencing the other factions through the eyes of the enemy" explanation, I don't like to complain too much because I absolutely hate, hate leveling alts. I'd rather focus on one character in any MMO, so it's a relief for me that I get to explore all of the quests/zones in the game without having to create two other toons.

But would you be happier if you got to explore those enemy lands with quests that were actually tailored for the character of your faction rather than just "experiencing" the same old leveling quests a character OF that faction gets?

NadiusMaximus · November 2014

Simple story change would make the whole thing make sense.

1. Molag bal is bad. He is a God. And needs to be stopped.
2. None of the factions can do it alone.
3. Enter you, do your entire faction story line as normal, but it stops just before the three faction leaders meet.
4. You don't go after Molag Bal, instead, Cadwell tells you to go and try to get the other two factions to help, they won't until you've proven yourself... Blah blah.
5. Do the Cadwell silver and gold to prove to the other factions your serious and they agree to a cease fire, then meet.... Then you do the Final Epic battle...

If that storyline is used, it makes sense why you had to go into enemy territory, and help them.

Wolfenbelle · November 2014

I don't mind doing Cadwell's g/s once, but the idea of doing it again with an alt is just mind numbing. But you need to if you want the skill points and shards, or to level up more skills. I completed all of Cadwell's last weekend and there was a delightful surprise at the end. One of the last things I did was complete Razak's Wheel dungeon. After killing all the bosses and completing the last task in the quests, you get a Dwemer spider pet as a reward. Yay!!! That made me happy.

moesmaker · November 2014

Reading this thread and not having a VR char yet, I think what I can do best (I don't want to do all factions quests multiple times) is to level my current DC Templar till 50, also level my AD NB and my EP DK till 50 and then decide what char will be my main and quest grind further.

Choices, choices...

Mordria · November 2014

No, I don't like it at all. They should never have had our characters go through all 3 factions.

One - the idea is absurd. Who even thought of this?? And why would anyone even want to do this? That's what alts are supposed to be for. So really, they just killed a main reason for people to make alts. It just seems like a lazy way to produce content.

Also, It leaves the zones feeling empty. I would like to have seen another zone or zones, where all factions could go to do quests together beyond level 50. After you finish your faction, main, and guild quests.

Nacario · November 2014

I like cadwells quests but I dont really like the reason why we are there. Id prefer if it would be a different plot, like we would go there to spy on our enemies instead. Thatd make more sense. And then add some twist to some of the quests, like some NPCs figure out who we are and then we have to kill em

drschplatt · November 2014

I stopped reading the quests when I started VR content. My character is AD and I chose for it to be AD. I have no desire for my character to pretend to be anything else. I'll start an alt and enjoy the quests at level with a character that I can roll play for the correct alliance.

I just click through the mind numbingly bad quest text as fast as I can, go do the cookie cutter quests as fast as I can and then feel depressed as I watch my XP bar fill up fast enough knowing in the back of my mind that I should probably just go grind in Craglorn so I can actually participate in raids some day.

ThisOnePosts · November 2014

It's definitely worthwhile to do on at least one character. I am glad they have this feature in the game although it wouldn't hurt to have several options on "what to do" (besides XP grinding) once you hit VR.

Oolou · November 2014

Voted yes. I'm enjoying going through the other alliance's quests.

Enodoc · November 2014

I like the concept, but not the current implementation.
I would like to be able to rank up efficiently using Craglorn and Cyrodiil, but Craglorn is too difficult for a solo VR1 and Cyrodiil does not provide enough consistent XP. Cadwell's is currently the most viable way to level from Vet 1 to Vet 10 (-ish) as a primarily-solo player, whereas all endgame should be equally viable for people who do not wish to do this content.
I also hope that it is adjusted so you can visit the "third" alliance sooner, without having to complete the storyline of the second (although in a way that does not result in the removal of John Cleese's excellent dialogue as Cadwell).

MornaBaine · November 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

I like the concept, but not the current implementation.
I would like to be able to rank up efficiently using Craglorn and Cyrodiil, but Craglorn is too difficult for a solo VR1 and Cyrodiil does not provide enough consistent XP. Cadwell's is currently the most viable way to level from Vet 1 to Vet 10 (-ish) as a primarily-solo player, whereas all endgame should be equally viable for people who do not wish to do this content.
I also hope that it is adjusted so you can visit the "third" alliance sooner, without having to complete the storyline of the second (although in a way that does not result in the removal of John Cleese's excellent dialogue as Cadwell).

We must definitely NOT lose any face time with Cadwell! LOL But I think you really hit the nail on the head. There really needs to be a way to progress through the Vet levels (or Champion System levels) once you hit Vet 1 that does NOT involve this "experience all the stuff your enemies do as if you were one of them!" nonsense.

Mordria · November 2014

I seriously want to know why they thought this was a good idea.

I love ES games I really do, but how do I stay loyal when the concept of loyalty is thrown out the window.