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XP/VP problems--don't shoot the messenger
Hciliata
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Hello,
like most other players, I was kind of frustrated by how much effort it took to complete Cadwell's silver and gold prepatches, kind of bummed by the lame necklace, and excited about the (then upcoming) promised reduction in time to level vrs. Obviously I am disappointed that the situation got worse post patch and post failed patch. It is understandable that many players are upset about this stuff. Nevertheless, I'm disappointed to see some commenters being super rude to Jessica, Gina, or other Zeni employess who try to address their comments in the forums. It is pointless and uncool to be super rude to those people, for a variety of reasons:
1. They didn't break it, they don't program it, they can't personally fix it, etc. Things that dissatisfy us about the game aren't actually their responsibility. They are just the messenger. There's no reason to be mean to the people who bear no responsibility for breaking or fixing, but are stuck in the position of just delivering corporate messages.
2. Typically by design, customer facing people are organizationally distanced from the people who actually could fix problems. Forum users will never get to talk to the persons who actually screwed up or who could actually fix things. So yelling at the person who is stuck doing customer service is pointless, they have no ability to change things, they didn't screw anything up in the first place. They just have the misfortune of being the public face and receiving a bunch of hate from customers who, though justifiably angry, are hating/being rude to the wrong person.
3. Some commenters have been especially inflamed by the specifics of the comments made by ZOS employees. Like I said, I fully get the frustration and anger, and some of their comments do seem suboptimally diplomatic or tone deaf. But in all likelihood, the specific comments actually posted by Gina or Jessica or whoever probably have to be written or approved by someone higher up, essentially to protect the company. The bottom line is yes, Zeni made promises, they failed to deliver, and customers are justifiably upset as a consequence. But still, there's no reason to hate on Jessica or Gina, because it isn't actually their fault. I doubt that they even get to personally choose when they post or what exactly they say. Even if they do, it's still not fair to vent all your anger at them, because they didn't break it and can't fix it. The very real problems simply aren't their fault.
If you want to hurt the company, quit the game. It's really simple, and it will be effective instead of pointless. Being mean to the customer service person a) never fixes anything, b) is uncool, and c) doesn't hurt the company that is actually responsible for these problems. It just depresses the customer service person, which is lame, because I'm confident they are already as depressed as we are.If you are sticking it out, I recommend Dwemer grinding. I pulled two kutas from a dwemer heavy sack one night, and it made me pretty happy. "But dwemer grinding is bugged" you say? Ok, so quit the game, it's a guaranteed fix. Borderlands is always fun. Yelling at e.g. Gina is the worst/dumbest option you have, please pick a better one.
like most other players, I was kind of frustrated by how much effort it took to complete Cadwell's silver and gold prepatches, kind of bummed by the lame necklace, and excited about the (then upcoming) promised reduction in time to level vrs. Obviously I am disappointed that the situation got worse post patch and post failed patch. It is understandable that many players are upset about this stuff. Nevertheless, I'm disappointed to see some commenters being super rude to Jessica, Gina, or other Zeni employess who try to address their comments in the forums. It is pointless and uncool to be super rude to those people, for a variety of reasons:
1. They didn't break it, they don't program it, they can't personally fix it, etc. Things that dissatisfy us about the game aren't actually their responsibility. They are just the messenger. There's no reason to be mean to the people who bear no responsibility for breaking or fixing, but are stuck in the position of just delivering corporate messages.
2. Typically by design, customer facing people are organizationally distanced from the people who actually could fix problems. Forum users will never get to talk to the persons who actually screwed up or who could actually fix things. So yelling at the person who is stuck doing customer service is pointless, they have no ability to change things, they didn't screw anything up in the first place. They just have the misfortune of being the public face and receiving a bunch of hate from customers who, though justifiably angry, are hating/being rude to the wrong person.
3. Some commenters have been especially inflamed by the specifics of the comments made by ZOS employees. Like I said, I fully get the frustration and anger, and some of their comments do seem suboptimally diplomatic or tone deaf. But in all likelihood, the specific comments actually posted by Gina or Jessica or whoever probably have to be written or approved by someone higher up, essentially to protect the company. The bottom line is yes, Zeni made promises, they failed to deliver, and customers are justifiably upset as a consequence. But still, there's no reason to hate on Jessica or Gina, because it isn't actually their fault. I doubt that they even get to personally choose when they post or what exactly they say. Even if they do, it's still not fair to vent all your anger at them, because they didn't break it and can't fix it. The very real problems simply aren't their fault.
If you want to hurt the company, quit the game. It's really simple, and it will be effective instead of pointless. Being mean to the customer service person a) never fixes anything, b) is uncool, and c) doesn't hurt the company that is actually responsible for these problems. It just depresses the customer service person, which is lame, because I'm confident they are already as depressed as we are.If you are sticking it out, I recommend Dwemer grinding. I pulled two kutas from a dwemer heavy sack one night, and it made me pretty happy. "But dwemer grinding is bugged" you say? Ok, so quit the game, it's a guaranteed fix. Borderlands is always fun. Yelling at e.g. Gina is the worst/dumbest option you have, please pick a better one.
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Nivzruo_ESO✭✭✭✭I feel I'd agree with you, but I just couldn't bring myself to read that.Nelgyntc- V14 NB7 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭@hciliata .... You sir has made my day, i was at the point to ask my self if the eso fanbase has become like the COD rage fanboy comunity and striky to the tread not only with the forums admins those people neet to know how to respect even other players of the comunitySignature3 -
Emeliana✭✭✭I have worked on customer support for a company once and it wasn't because of my 'misfortune' - I applied and took the job when offered to me.
Some customers will be angry and rude, it comes with the job. If the CS personel here are professional in their trade, they will not take players complains personally. Instead realizing the customers are complaining about dysfunctions in a computer game and relay this to management.
Their ability to change things lies in that they are the only link between us customers and the management. In some games forums the players can have straight feedback from developers/game managers - not so in ESO. Any game management needs feedback from the players. If everyone would quit when something doesn't work as intended, we wouldn't have a game and these people wouldn't have their jobs...3 -
Hciliata✭✭Hello Emeliana,
you are correct that "they are the only link between us customers and the management." But I don't think that justifies being rude or mean to them. I was once a tech support/customer service person for a very large and in many ways intentionally dysfunctional ISP. Maybe I wasn't sufficiently "professional", but I did not enjoy being yelled at when a) I didn't cause the customers problem, and b) by corporate design, it was impossible for me to fix the problem or even communicate directly with the person who actually could fix the problem. I did the best I could to solve any problems that I actually had the ability to solve. It was nevertheless depressing for me to receive a lot of hate from customers who were justifiably angry at the company.
I think it is easy to communicate unhappiness/disappointment to the company without being mean or rude to the customer service person. I also insist that you have a much more effective way to communicate with the company--by stopping your subscription--than being mean to Jessica or whoever. I'm not suggesting that no one should complain on the forums. People should definitely complain. I'm simply claiming that it is ineffective, unjustified, and uncool to be mean or rude to the customer service person. Surely there is a difference between complaining or communicating dissatisfaction and being mean or rude. People get justifiably frustrated when waiting in a long line at a store. Sometimes I see customers yelling at the cashier, who is as you say "the only link." But the problem is we can be certain that the cashier didn't cause the line, doesn't decide staffing levels, bears no personal responsibility for the problem and cannot change it. Yelling at the cashier is pointless and unjustified, that's all I'm saying. Why not just yell at someone else in line, or at the magazine rack? It would be equally ineffective and unreasonable. I can't agree with you that the cashier should just expect to receive some hate and not worry about it. I'm confident if you told the cashier "man, management needs to have more cashiers, this line is terrible", they would readily agree with you. Yelling "what the *** you stupid **** *** piece of ****this line is ***...." to the cashier is just mean. Right?
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Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please hit the edit button and then the enter key a few times. At random would be fine
edit: okay, I went ahead and read it anyway.
While I do agree with you, remember that this is their job, and the frustrations of ZoS' customers are their business.
Much like I shouldn't have to take abuse from my students (I'm a teacher) when asking them to read a book, but I accept it because that's part of my job.
A job I knowingly signed up for.Edited by Jitterbug on November 12, 2014 5:56PM3 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't think any ZOS customer service mods are just learning that people on the internet can be rude. They know exactly what to expect when they signed up. People are truly awful deep down when there are no repercussions.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭tl;dr
To summarize: Don't be rude.
I will counter with this, though. How do you express your displeasure with CS personnel (well... forum personnel) who have repeatedly given us demonstrably false and misleading information? How do you express your displeasure with CS personnel (well... forum personnel) who pretend, after EVERY update that they didn't see the bugs posted on the PTS forums?
I agree, it doesn't have to be some of the direct personal attacks I've seen, but your "just quit" is an asinine assertion. While many (myself included) may indeed do that, making sure they know what pisses off their playerbase should be useful to them, no?
And, really, paragraphs are your friend.5 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It has a bot name, it types like a bot, was about to report it as a bot till I noticed it actually wasn't advertising movies or custom built kitchen furniture.0 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭It has a bot name, it types like a bot, was about to report it as a bot till I noticed it actually wasn't advertising movies or custom built kitchen furniture.
How is "Hciliata" a bot name?? and how do they type like a bot?? They very much have a sound of humanism and are simply ranting and don't care about paragraphs... most definitely a human...1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's never cool to attack individuals. Treat others how you would want to be treated yourself. You can easily rage about a problem without aiming it at the mods.
The last thing we want here is another "Bus shock"!Edited by Guppet on November 12, 2014 7:49PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »
Well now you mention it, it could also be the name of some kind of disease.2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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I investigated further and was delighted to discover that Ciliata are a type of protozoans and also a genus of coastal fish. The things I learn on this forum.diabeticDemon18 wrote: »
Well now you mention it, it could also be the name of some kind of disease.
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diabeticDemon18✭✭✭
I investigated further and was delighted to discover that Ciliata are a type of protozoans and also a genus of coastal fish. The things I learn on this forum.diabeticDemon18 wrote: »
Well now you mention it, it could also be the name of some kind of disease.
Lol nice!! I'm always happy to learn something new
thanks for the fun fact!! 0 -
Hciliata✭✭Robocles, we seem to agree that the game was suboptimal before and is significantly worse now. If you think it's asinine to quit paying for a broken game, what is continuing to pay for a broken game? Whimsical?
There has been no shortage of complaints on the forums about various aspects of the game. Obviously zeni registered the discontent about vr leveling, because they tried to make it easier to level, but did not succeed. I don't think infrequency of complaints has prevented fixes to these aspects. I certainly don't think the problem is that people weren't rude enough.
We all want the game to be better. Zeni promised us a better game, and then botched it, I guess at least twice. This is justifiably angrymaking.
But the fact is, since none of the players can go fix the game today, and since Gina and Jessica can't fix the game, we only have a few options. None of them immediately leads to the desired awesome game, so you just have to pick the one(s) you judge to be least bad:
1. Complain on the forums. (I'm all for it. I started this thread with several complaints.)
2. Be mean to the few zeni people we can interact with. (I'm obviously against it, I maintain this is indeed the dumbest and worst option. Plus uncool.)
3. Keep paying, and try to make the best of it. Try to be happy with dwemer grinding or whatever.(I'm all for it, but it's definitely a subjective decision.)
4. Quit the game, so that you are not financially rewarding the company for double breaking stuff.(I'm all for it, I definitely think it's much more rational than abusing the innocent.)
To me, if you are so dissatisfied with the game that you feel the need to abuse the human shield customer service person, I really think it's better for you to stop paying. I think it is much more likely to bring about the change you actually desire--quick successful improvements. I don't think it will be mysterious to zeni why a bunch of people stopped renewing their subscriptions this month.
Jitterbug, I can't agree with the suggestion that since someone knowingly took a job where they might be abused, abuse of them should be accepted or not discouraged. One problem with this position is that it cuts both ways. You knowingly made an agreement that guarantees your money would be taken, but doesn't guarantee any minimum standard of game quality, performance, or playability.
Does it follow from that that it's simply hunky dory and acceptable when the game gets broken? I don't think so, and I doubt you think so either. If we use the "knowingly" standard, we really shouldn't complain at all, because we all "knowingly" agreed to no promise of performance in exchange for a definite payment. On this logic, we should all be delighted, since we're getting some aspects of a game, which is way better than the nothing they guarantee us. In this light, Zeni has radically exceeded any rational expectations we could have had, since we 'knew' that maybe we'd just be paying for no game at all. So we should not only "accept" the problems, we should be delighted we don't have more of them. Right?
My programmer registered your complaints about paragraph usage, and my paragraph frequency parameter has been adjusted upward. Have a nice day.
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Robocles✭✭✭✭✭Robocles, we seem to agree that the game was suboptimal before and is significantly worse now. If you think it's asinine to quit paying for a broken game, what is continuing to pay for a broken game? Whimsical?
That's not what I said... I said your assertion that we should just quit if we don't like it is asinine. Complaining about the broken features, and obviously false and misleading information we get from the staff here is fully valid.
We do agree that direct personal attacks are bad, though.My programmer registered your complaints about paragraph usage, and my paragraph frequency parameter has been adjusted upward. Have a nice day.
LOL!
Please... I'm drinking, and I don't want to have to buy a new keyboard.
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Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The 'just quit' portion was poorly worded. It's difficult to tell if you are directing the whole paragraph at people that want to hurt ZOS, or whether the paragraph is also directed towards anyone who is unhappy about a bug. Otherwise I agree.
To be clear, you are saying don't direct a vitriolic response to Jessica, respond to Jessica by directing your vitriol towards 'unamed employee X' responsible for a particular bit of incompetence or a vision you don't agree with.
Might be easier if we had an spreadsheet mapping each aspect of the game to a particular named employee. Or maybe just a graphic with a big arrow pointing to Matt Firor. I'm still mad at him over Trials of Atlantis.1