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Animation canceling future f up?
astro74
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I don't get Zenimax view on animation canceling. Its not intended but they don't consider it an exploit. Now they are balancing the game without fixing the animation canceling first so that makes me think:
1. They are too incompetent to fix animation canceling so they stick their heads in the sand.
Or
2. They plan to break their game in the future by fixing it later, thus having to rebalance the game later.
I think its sad they didn't fix it but rather let it be like a feature... Lazy.
1. They are too incompetent to fix animation canceling so they stick their heads in the sand.
Or
2. They plan to break their game in the future by fixing it later, thus having to rebalance the game later.
I think its sad they didn't fix it but rather let it be like a feature... Lazy.
10
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astro74✭✭✭I see some people read but did not comment...
Am I wrong? Do you guys think animation-cancelling is how it should be?
Shall we really see this as a feature (something that separate us 1337 players who learnd how to abuse it to rack up DPS from the noobs)?1 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭I think it is not what they envisioned their combat to be, but they have already identified the problem and they are not willing to fix it for now. Hence a typical PR statements that promise nothing but also don't help in any way or solve anything.
So, basically, it's an exploit they will fix in future, but I wouldn't hope it will happen soon.0 -
Vatter✭✭✭✭✭its very simple guys...... zos simply doesn't have a single clue how to fix it. Meanwhile enjoy the macro exploits err I mean animation cancels. I sure do. I used to not use em but....when in rome. I have 28 days left here, in the mean time I'm gonna exploit err i mean enjoy the (snip) out of this game.6
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jeevin✭✭✭✭✭Yeah what Vatter said. They don't know how to fix it. I've given up hope on a fix for this.1 -
indigoblades✭✭✭You state "Its not intended " but lots of games have it. So i am not 100% sure its not intended. Surely in beta people where using animation canceling and it was reported. Also i have never heard Zos say its not "working as intended" Now is someone whom knows anything about developing/programming video games comes online and gives a convincing this is easly fixable problem, ignore my comments, but i tend to thing its not easy and any fixes will introduce new problems. Also if a fix was perfect & had no ill effect, it still would require the game to be completely rebalanced again.
I think most games have this and there is not a good way "FIX" and "FIXES" can introduce new problems. Most fps i play have some spell/attack that are faster if u animation animation canceling. Borderlands II had it i know, it was reload weapon. It is because there is a time the animation occurs which (was client side in Borderlands i think) and a server dependant cooldown timer for the actual damage of the spell/attacks. For ESO i dont know if the animation is client side.
Me i would just as soon they got rid of it, because my mouse has lots side buttons for my thumb and a 2 right click buttons so end up holding between my pinky and thumb buttons. Anyway, this makes its hard to to animation cancel well with my mouse. But i doubt they will change it, my guess is if they tried to get rid of the benefit of animation canceling, they would create more problems.
Anyway i wouldnt get all worked up about it. I never played WOW or any other MMO, but does anyone know if certain attacks where faster with animation canceling in other MMO's (Maybe thats not a fair comparison because i know WOW is 100% tab targeted, where ESO is a hybrid type targeting). For that matter does anyone know if any other games have hybrid targeting like ESO and would that effect the benefits of animation canceling.3 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is an intended mechanic and it will never be changed.There is nothing to fix since nothing is broken here. There are plenty of broken things here but animation canceling is not one of them.
~Yeah I do enjoy flogging Mesohippus.Edited by PBpsy on November 12, 2014 10:10AMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)3 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If its intented or not, i simply dont want em to fix it. Combat without it would be boring as hell. Also would it remove any type of skill. I would literally fall asleep without it.
The Combat is dull as it is. There are only 3 Skills to do DPS with. the other 2 slots are reserved for toggles and/or Spell Symmetry.
No thanks, It has to stay like this. How more boring do you ppl not able to do it want it to be?
Just learn how it works. Its easy. I do natively. Same as many others. Leave it like it is!5 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭I think you guys are mistaken. I think they do know howxMovingTarget wrote: »If its intented or not, i simply dont want em to fix it. Combat without it would be boring as hell. Also would it remove any type of skill. I would literally fall asleep without it.
The Combat is dull as it is. There are only 3 Skills to do DPS with. the other 2 slots are reserved for toggles and/or Spell Symmetry.
No thanks, It has to stay like this. How more boring do you ppl not able to do it want it to be?
Just learn how it works. Its easy. I do natively. Same as many others. Leave it like it is!
In what way is it boring?0 -
astro74✭✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »If its intented or not, i simply dont want em to fix it. Combat without it would be boring as hell. Also would it remove any type of skill. I would literally fall asleep without it.
The Combat is dull as it is. There are only 3 Skills to do DPS with. the other 2 slots are reserved for toggles and/or Spell Symmetry.
No thanks, It has to stay like this. How more boring do you ppl not able to do it want it to be?
Just learn how it works. Its easy. I do natively. Same as many others. Leave it like it is!
I take it you medan pve.. For pvp i only use 1 dps spell ATM. (Sorc)0 -
kimboh✭✭✭✭I consider animation cancelling similar to block casting.
Removing them would be bad for the fast pace combat in this game.
If you have to wait for every animation to play out and have no way of changing your actions to react to combat moment by moment, the game play would feel much slower and very unresponsive.
I agree that block casting could use some 'adjustment' but animation cancelling is important in maintaining a responsive and dynamic combat system.Status: offline<l Cygnus X|VR14|Sorc l><| Romulus Prime|VR12|Temp |><| Qwoptus |lvl30|DK|><| DC|EU |>1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It adds a way to put personal finesse into your attacks. I don't care if it goes so long as they replace it with another way to add some personal finesse into your dps.Edited by Armitas on November 12, 2014 2:01PMRetired.
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get Zenimax view on animation canceling. Its not intended but they don't consider it an exploit. Now they are balancing the game without fixing the animation canceling first so that makes me think:
1. They are too incompetent to fix animation canceling so they stick their heads in the sand.
Or
2. They plan to break their game in the future by fixing it later, thus having to rebalance the game later.
I think its sad they didn't fix it but rather let it be like a feature... Lazy.
They don't consider it an exploit because it does not really change your dps by a large amount, due to the way internal cooldowns work in this game.
So while the general public in ESO feels that it needs to be fixed because of some perceived advantage that people are gaining, the developers understand that is not actually happening.
So for 1) It's not hurting anything, so why waste the resources to "fix" something that's not even broken?
2) They plan to leave it in, because it's not really doing anything harmful to the game.
And 3) Changing it would break other parts of the game that are working correctly, as well make combat feel a lot more clunky than it does currently. All to "fix" something that wasn't hurting anything in the first place.
People really just need to understand how the game's mechanics work before getting all riled up about things like this, but the vast majority of the arguments against animation cancelling that I've seen have been based on either mis-information or complete fabrications.Edited by Varicite on November 12, 2014 2:10PM5 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »If its intented or not, i simply dont want em to fix it. Combat without it would be boring as hell. Also would it remove any type of skill. I would literally fall asleep without it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpZa4c-WZoE
[SARCASM]
1) Watch the video.
2) Set up your macro.
3) Fall asleep while pressing 1 single button for the entire fight.
4) Enjoy your newfound skill.
[/SARCASM]Edited by Gyudan on November 12, 2014 2:22PMWololo.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭xMovingTarget wrote: »If its intented or not, i simply dont want em to fix it. Combat without it would be boring as hell. Also would it remove any type of skill. I would literally fall asleep without it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpZa4c-WZoE
1) Watch the video.
2) Set up your macro.
3) Fall asleep while pressing 1 single button for the entire fight.
4) Enjoy your new found skill.
It actually is considered cheating to macro it through a 3rd party program.
You can use the mechanic, but the second you have automated macros doing it instead of you, then you are exploiting.
So, I'd be wary of encouraging people to cheat on their official forums.
/shrug1 -
astro74✭✭✭Is all macroing cheating?
If the question to the above is no then why would exploiting this flawed mechanic be cheating just because you add it to a macro?
Would a gamecompany that bans players for macroing win a trial against a company that produce hardware with macro functionallity for games?0 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
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Animation-canceling actually adds a substantial amount of DPS if done properly.They don't consider it an exploit because it does not really change your dps by a large amount, due to the way internal cooldowns work in this game.
I just added [SARCASM] [/SARCASM] tags on the 4 step method to fully embrace the wonders of animation canceling. Maybe it will be more obvious this way.Edited by Gyudan on November 12, 2014 2:21PMWololo.0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭The combat system is operating as intended. Because someone in the animations department decided to make some of the animations long and drawn out doesn't mean it will change the way combat is executed.
The speed and execution of the combat system is what matters here, not the length of the animation. If anything they should just shorten the animationsGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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Animation-canceling actually adds a substantial amount of DPS if done properly.They don't consider it an exploit because it does not really change your dps by a large amount, due to the way internal cooldowns work in this game.
I just added [SARCASM] [/SARCASM] tags on the 4 step method to fully embrace the wonders of animation canceling. Maybe it will be more obvious this way.
It actually does not, and I'd love to see you prove what is mathematically false. Here's why:
1) Animation cancelling consists of cancelling a light attack w/ a skill (and cancelling that w/ a block if you wish, though usually unnecessary).
2) Every light attack has an internal cooldown of ~1.3 seconds before you can start another light attack. Haste lowers this cooldown between attacks.
3) You can fire a light attack + skill combo once every 1.3 seconds. No matter how fast you animation cancel, you can NOT bypass this internal cooldown. You will never attack faster than is intended by the game, ever.
4) This cooldown exists because this is how fast you are intended to be attacking at max speed. It's the only reason the internal cooldown is in the game, to limit the rate at which players can attack. Thus, animation cancelling is kept 100% in check by the internal cooldown.
So yes, you can do lower DPS by not animation cancelling (and depending on how long you'd like to draw out your attacks, it could be MUCH lower), but you can never raise your DPS by attacking faster than is intended by the game.
And yes, there is a huge difference between something that actually does add dps and players who do lower dps because they are stalling between their attacks.
Does that make more sense?Is all macroing cheating?
If the question to the above is no then why would exploiting this flawed mechanic be cheating just because you add it to a macro?
Would a gamecompany that bans players for macroing win a trial against a company that produce hardware with macro functionallity for games?
I would assume that any 3rd party program that allows you to queue multiple actions w/ the press of a button is considered cheating, as that is the policy that is largely adopted by most modern MMOs.
Obviously, there are some games that allow even complex macros, but most that I've played do not.
You'd probably have to go through the ToS to find out whether all macroing is considered cheating, but as I understand it simple macros (those like Outfitter) are fine, whereas complex ones (macros that will do a skill rotation w/ the press of a button) are not.
Edited by Varicite on November 12, 2014 2:39PM3 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[SARCASM]
1) Watch the video.
2) Set up your macro.
3) Fall asleep while pressing 1 single button for the entire fight.
4) Enjoy your newfound skill.
[/SARCASM]
I consider Macro usage as kinda exploit. players using macros for this should be punished. I dont use any type of macro.
If you do, theres no respect at all from me
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Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
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Animation-canceling actually adds a substantial amount of DPS if done properly.They don't consider it an exploit because it does not really change your dps by a large amount, due to the way internal cooldowns work in this game.
I just added [SARCASM] [/SARCASM] tags on the 4 step method to fully embrace the wonders of animation canceling. Maybe it will be more obvious this way.
It actually does not, and I'd love to see you prove what is mathematically false.
If you consider the following playstyles:
- Player A spams crushing shock, bashing the ability key, effectively using it as soon as possible
- Player B uses animation-canceling: his routine is a light attack immediately followed by crushing shock, then 1.2 seconds delay (staff light attack cooldown) and repeat.
In my case, player B will does more DPS than player A by ~20%.
Try both and compare your DPS, you'll see for yourself.Edited by Gyudan on November 12, 2014 3:07PMWololo.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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Animation-canceling actually adds a substantial amount of DPS if done properly.They don't consider it an exploit because it does not really change your dps by a large amount, due to the way internal cooldowns work in this game.
I just added [SARCASM] [/SARCASM] tags on the 4 step method to fully embrace the wonders of animation canceling. Maybe it will be more obvious this way.
It actually does not, and I'd love to see you prove what is mathematically false.
If you consider the following playstyles:
- Player A spams crushing shock, bashing the ability key, effectively using it as soon as possible
- Player B uses animation-canceling: his routine is a light attack immediately followed by crushing shock, then 1.2 seconds delay (staff light attack cooldown) and repeat.
In my case, player B will does more DPS than player A by ~20%.
Try both and compare your DPS, you'll see for yourself.
Wait, so are you saying that Player B is going to do more dps than Player A who never uses any light attacks at all?
I'm.. not really seeing an issue here. The basic attacks are in the game for a reason, you should probably use them.
/shrug2 -
Potenza✭✭✭✭✭Its not going away. They have way to many other problems to deal with. So use it or don't use it, its up to you. Its the same for everybody - anyone can use it or not use it. Its balanced.
- why do you even care about it? How exactly does hinder your gameplay? What is it that you have to see? Im not getting it. I think its just nitpicky BS.Edited by Potenza on November 12, 2014 4:15PM0 -
NotSo✭✭✭✭Animation canceling only exists because ZOS wanted responsive combat; blockcasting happens to be a side effect and I would appreciate if animation canceling also function as cast canceling, i.e. if you cast then block (blockcasting) you shouldn't be able to fire off your spell because you're now blocking.Gar'Sol the Wanderer VR14 Khajiit Sorcerer Spellblade0 -
s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling is very easy to do- most players discover it by the time they hit level 30 or so. It works with any weapon, any class, and any ability, so everyone should be doing it. It adds skill to the game instead of just mashing buttons.
Blockcasting is extremely important in PVE. It's somewhat an issue in PVP, but I wouldn't want it removed just because of how useful it is in PVE.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Blockcasting is extremely important in PVE. It's somewhat an issue in PVP, but I wouldn't want it removed just because of how useful it is in PVE.
Should be noted that the new Ransack now provides additional armor when used while blocking.
Block casting seems to be becoming more of a feature now.1
