Give me a good reason to stick to my Sorc
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭"The Sorc is required to rely on Destro Staff Skills if they want Instant Direct Damage because the Class skills are not viable to be used this way"
same as templars.
and no, biting jabs is not good in PvP.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭"The Sorc is required to rely on Destro Staff Skills if they want Instant Direct Damage because the Class skills are not viable to be used this way"
same as templars.
and no, biting jabs is not good in PvP.
Yeah, but sorc shield spamming doesn't kill people.
Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one2 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭If you're thinking of ditching your sorc, how are you playing it @woodsro?
Sorcs aren't just good casters, Crit Surge can give sorcs the highest physical weapon damage in the game, if I'm not mistaken. Try the new FOTW: Sorc 2handers. Hasty Retreat from Bow + Medium Armor + Streak gives sorcs the best battlefield mobility in the game. But sorcs are obviously still good in the classic stick and skirt builds, too.
Negates are perhaps the most valuable ultimate in the game in PvP. Run with a good group that is able to best utilize the health and magicka regen to bust open zergs.
Shards has a cast time, unless you're smart enough to get the right morph and only insta-cast it. If you're even smarter, you'll learn to light-attack weave with shards and the abilities that proc it, like Curse, Fury, Streak, Surge. I suggest getting an Add-On that tells you when your shards proc.
With the new patch, and my weapon damage as high as 272 with a 2hander, I have been able to solo large groups of people with Negate, Surge, Momentum, Immovable Brute, weapon tri-pots, and Brawler. If you're inside the negate dispelling large groups, the HoT from momentum, the heals from crit surge, and getting the full 6x damage shield from brawler, it's pretty hard to bring you down.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I think they perform better in PvP though because bolt escape is a very strong skill vs. human opponents, the dps loss from crystal shards doesn't matter , and players don't have many hit points which means many opportunities for Mage's fury.
What in the..I don't...what?
Are you saying somehow that the 20%-25% damage loss on frags over the last month does not matter? The only damage skill in the arsenal with some instant burst?
The way sorc operates is by creating bursts of damage with frags and curse, by timing gaps in the opponents reflects and utilising the delay of the curse and coupling it with the high damage of the frags. If you can't do burst, you can't do anything as a spell-dmg sorc. Which is precisely why the meta now is to stack weapon power and use destro instead.
Also heals have become better in this game through time. Healing Ward now crits and can deliver insta-heal of up to 2k on situations if double-cast. So while healing has increased burst, the damage burst (for magicka sorc) has taken a huge dip. Not to mention that the nerfs to Harness Magicka have hit both sustainability and survivability.
At the moment the best sorc builds in order are:
1) Weapon damage based bow sorc
2) Weapon damage based destro sorc
3) spell damage & class skill based sorc
That's how it is, and it's sad to anyone except ganky NBs as evidenced in this thread.
You misunderstand. I am saying that if a sorceror's DPS "rotation" is crystal shard-crystal shard-crystal shard it will be less than crushing shock-crushing shock-crushing shock. Thus casting Crystal shard is a DPS loss.
So we agree with the rest of your analysis.Edited by Joy_Division on November 10, 2014 5:05PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »If you're thinking of ditching your sorc, how are you playing it @woodsro?
Sorcs aren't just good casters, Crit Surge can give sorcs the highest physical weapon damage in the game, if I'm not mistaken. Try the new FOTW: Sorc 2handers. Hasty Retreat from Bow + Medium Armor + Streak gives sorcs the best battlefield mobility in the game. But sorcs are obviously still good in the classic stick and skirt builds, too.
Negates are perhaps the most valuable ultimate in the game in PvP. Run with a good group that is able to best utilize the health and magicka regen to bust open zergs.
Shards has a cast time, unless you're smart enough to get the right morph and only insta-cast it. If you're even smarter, you'll learn to light-attack weave with shards and the abilities that proc it, like Curse, Fury, Streak, Surge. I suggest getting an Add-On that tells you when your shards proc.
With the new patch, and my weapon damage as high as 272 with a 2hander, I have been able to solo large groups of people with Negate, Surge, Momentum, Immovable Brute, weapon tri-pots, and Brawler. If you're inside the negate dispelling large groups, the HoT from momentum, the heals from crit surge, and getting the full 6x damage shield from brawler, it's pretty hard to bring you down.
Any stam sorc is super squishy. Sorcs get not class stam buffs, so you choose to either have no health or no magicka. Both results in super squishy sorc. You know how you beat a 2hander sorc? Block. No crits, no heals, dead sorc. You may kill large groups of inexperienced players, but it is definitely NOT a 1vX build.Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »If you're thinking of ditching your sorc, how are you playing it @woodsro?
Sorcs aren't just good casters, Crit Surge can give sorcs the highest physical weapon damage in the game, if I'm not mistaken. Try the new FOTW: Sorc 2handers. Hasty Retreat from Bow + Medium Armor + Streak gives sorcs the best battlefield mobility in the game. But sorcs are obviously still good in the classic stick and skirt builds, too.
Negates are perhaps the most valuable ultimate in the game in PvP. Run with a good group that is able to best utilize the health and magicka regen to bust open zergs.
Shards has a cast time, unless you're smart enough to get the right morph and only insta-cast it. If you're even smarter, you'll learn to light-attack weave with shards and the abilities that proc it, like Curse, Fury, Streak, Surge. I suggest getting an Add-On that tells you when your shards proc.
With the new patch, and my weapon damage as high as 272 with a 2hander, I have been able to solo large groups of people with Negate, Surge, Momentum, Immovable Brute, weapon tri-pots, and Brawler. If you're inside the negate dispelling large groups, the HoT from momentum, the heals from crit surge, and getting the full 6x damage shield from brawler, it's pretty hard to bring you down.
Any stam sorc is super squishy. Sorcs get not class stam buffs, so you choose to either have no health or no magicka. Both results in super squishy sorc. You know how you beat a 2hander sorc? Block. No crits, no heals, dead sorc. You may kill large groups of inexperienced players, but it is definitely NOT a 1vX build.
Rally got fixed today and so did healing ward. So a 2h Sorc actually has better heals than a magicka sorc relying on crit surge. The irony.
You can't really make a 1vX build with a magicka Sorc either, like you can with the other classes, because you don't have a) any good PBAoEs b) you don't have any good stamina sustain. Best you can do is try to stretch your opponents with streak and kill them 1 by 1.
1vX as done in ESO revolves around mitigating damage with block while casting PBAoEs, whether that is Talons+Inhale, or Blazing Shield, or Sap Essence. DKs can use earthen heart abilities or battle roar to get stamina to block longer. NBs can use siphoning attacks. Templars can use repentance. There's nothing in the Sorcs arsenal that will return stamina or provide consistent enough heals while blocking with shield, for 1vX to be possible.Edited by Maulkin on November 10, 2014 5:15PMEU | PC | AD2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Rally got fixed today and so did healing ward. So a 2h Sorc actually has better heals than a magicka sorc relying on crit surge. The irony.
I think you're giving Rally a little bit too much credit. You have to let it tick for quite a while to get any significant instant heal while healing ward is the true 'OH SHIT' button that Sorc's lack.... even with the 6 second delay.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
..... than a magicka sorc relying on crit surge. The irony.RadioheadSh0t wrote: »If you're thinking of ditching your sorc, how are you playing it @woodsro?
Sorcs aren't just good casters, Crit Surge can give sorcs the highest physical weapon damage in the game, if I'm not mistaken. Try the new FOTW: Sorc 2handers. Hasty Retreat from Bow + Medium Armor + Streak gives sorcs the best battlefield mobility in the game. But sorcs are obviously still good in the classic stick and skirt builds, too.
Negates are perhaps the most valuable ultimate in the game in PvP. Run with a good group that is able to best utilize the health and magicka regen to bust open zergs.
Shards has a cast time, unless you're smart enough to get the right morph and only insta-cast it. If you're even smarter, you'll learn to light-attack weave with shards and the abilities that proc it, like Curse, Fury, Streak, Surge. I suggest getting an Add-On that tells you when your shards proc.
With the new patch, and my weapon damage as high as 272 with a 2hander, I have been able to solo large groups of people with Negate, Surge, Momentum, Immovable Brute, weapon tri-pots, and Brawler. If you're inside the negate dispelling large groups, the HoT from momentum, the heals from crit surge, and getting the full 6x damage shield from brawler, it's pretty hard to bring you down.
Any stam sorc is super squishy. Sorcs get not class stam buffs, so you choose to either have no health or no magicka. Both results in super squishy sorc. You know how you beat a 2hander sorc? Block. No crits, no heals, dead sorc. You may kill large groups of inexperienced players, but it is definitely NOT a 1vX build.
Lol relying on crit surge in pvp for heals...
I think rapid regen is still a better heal than rally. High mag (with high health pool) + High weapon power (for resto staff heals) seems to be the tankiest option. Poor stamina regen makes 1h&s meh, crit surge is too easily countered/unreliable; streaking away and healing with some shield stacking thrown in seems to still be our least squishy mode of play.
I agree, the closest thing to 1vX for a sorc is dragging a group apart with streak then killing them 1v1 or small groups at a time. However, this only works when the group is dumb enough to split while chasing you (which does happen a lot, people love trying to chase down a streaker).Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one1 -
Pyatra✭✭✭ZOS: "Hey Pyatra, we are going to take all but 5 of the active skills away from Sorc and give you 1 more skill that is usefull."
Me: "Do I get to keep the 5 class skills that don't suck?"
ZOS: "Sure"
Me: "Weeeeeeeeee! Lets gut this sucker!"
I dream of this day. But seriously it may get better later, hang in there!Edited by Pyatra on November 10, 2014 7:22PM1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though.
You're saying that one cast of Streak/BoL gives you more survivability overall than being able to cast one to two Cloaks?
The bottom line is a stamina focused Sorc will use something like 950 magicka on back to back casts of Streak/BoL. That is just way too much to allow yourself to ever cast it back to back. I think one or even two casts of Cloak is a much better escape than one Streak/BoL.
You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though.
You're saying that one cast of Streak/BoL gives you more survivability overall than being able to cast one to two Cloaks?
The bottom line is a stamina focused Sorc will use something like 950 magicka on back to back casts of Streak/BoL. That is just way too much to allow yourself to ever cast it back to back. I think one or even two casts of Cloak is a much better escape than one Streak/BoL.
Saying they are both mediocre on single use, but that Streak/Ball Of Lightning is experientially better even then.
As a Stamina focused Nightblade my character uses 840 Magicka on back to back casts of Cloak; travels the same distance (as long as there is no interference, which is rarely ever...) as two bolt escapes, but far more slowly; is highly likely to have Cloak break, or to receive damage and CC effects while invisible; and has to deal with Magelight and Detection potions as counters that completely void the effect of the buff.
Speaking from first-hand experience using both, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
If my Nightblade could give up Cloak for a skill that does what Bolt Escape does, would trade in an instant.
Would not trade my Sorcerer's Bolt Escape for a skill that does what Cloak does though."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though.
You're saying that one cast of Streak/BoL gives you more survivability overall than being able to cast one to two Cloaks?
The bottom line is a stamina focused Sorc will use something like 950 magicka on back to back casts of Streak/BoL. That is just way too much to allow yourself to ever cast it back to back. I think one or even two casts of Cloak is a much better escape than one Streak/BoL.
Saying they are both mediocre on single use, but that Streak/Ball Of Lightning is experientially better even then.
As a Stamina focused Nightblade my character uses 840 Magicka on back to back casts of Cloak; travels the same distance (as long as there is no interference, which is rarely ever...) as two bolt escapes, but far more slowly; is highly likely to have Cloak break, or to receive damage and CC effects while invisible; and has to deal with Magelight and Detection potions as counters that completely void the effect of the buff.
Speaking from first-hand experience using both, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
If my Nightblade could give up Cloak for a skill that does what Bolt Escape does, would trade in an instant.
Would not trade my Sorcerer's Bolt Escape for a skill that does what Cloak does though.
Streak is better at getting out of an aoe death trap, but after one or two streaks you are out of mag.... and then you've got to keep crit surge up to keep healing. NB has a number of healing options not available to sorcs AND get a huge buff to stam regen. I've played both and if you think 1 cast of streak is better than one cast of cloak you are cloaking wrong. Dodgeroll---> cloak will beat streak in survivability almost every time.Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though.
You're saying that one cast of Streak/BoL gives you more survivability overall than being able to cast one to two Cloaks?
The bottom line is a stamina focused Sorc will use something like 950 magicka on back to back casts of Streak/BoL. That is just way too much to allow yourself to ever cast it back to back. I think one or even two casts of Cloak is a much better escape than one Streak/BoL.
Saying they are both mediocre on single use, but that Streak/Ball Of Lightning is experientially better even then.
As a Stamina focused Nightblade my character uses 840 Magicka on back to back casts of Cloak; travels the same distance (as long as there is no interference, which is rarely ever...) as two bolt escapes, but far more slowly; is highly likely to have Cloak break, or to receive damage and CC effects while invisible; and has to deal with Magelight and Detection potions as counters that completely void the effect of the buff.
Speaking from first-hand experience using both, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
If my Nightblade could give up Cloak for a skill that does what Bolt Escape does, would trade in an instant.
Would not trade my Sorcerer's Bolt Escape for a skill that does what Cloak does though.
Streak is better at getting out of an aoe death trap, but after one or two streaks you are out of mag.... and then you've got to keep crit surge up to keep healing. NB has a number of healing options not available to sorcs AND get a huge buff to stam regen. I've played both and if you think 1 cast of streak is better than one cast of cloak you are cloaking wrong. Dodgeroll---> cloak will beat streak in survivability almost every time.
Invisibility + Speed Potion --> Cloak will also beat Streak on its own most of the time too.
However, dodge roll and potions remain available options to me on my Sorcerer as well.
My Nightblade gets additional Stamina Regen, my Sorcerer gets passive reduction to Stamina skill costs. My Nightblade gets Class healing options, my Sorcerer gets a Class shield and better synergy with Weapon heals.
Am aware of the additional strengths and weaknesses my builds face on each character, and Bolt Escape remains more appealing and reliable to me than Cloak."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Jahosefat✭✭✭✭...I'd gladly take one use of Cloak over one use of Streak any day as I believe the use of one Cloak has a greater chance of saving yourself than one use of streak/ball of lightning. ...
Having gone from using a Stamina Two Handed Nightblade to giving a Stamina Two Handed Sorcerer a try, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
Streak (when my build sometimes uses it offensively) and Ball of Lightning (when my build only uses it for distance/to escape) are far more effective and far more reliable than either morph of Nightblade's Cloak.
Neither Class really benefits from these as escape skills unless on a full Magicka build with the ability to use multiple casts in quick succession though.
You're saying that one cast of Streak/BoL gives you more survivability overall than being able to cast one to two Cloaks?
The bottom line is a stamina focused Sorc will use something like 950 magicka on back to back casts of Streak/BoL. That is just way too much to allow yourself to ever cast it back to back. I think one or even two casts of Cloak is a much better escape than one Streak/BoL.
Saying they are both mediocre on single use, but that Streak/Ball Of Lightning is experientially better even then.
As a Stamina focused Nightblade my character uses 840 Magicka on back to back casts of Cloak; travels the same distance (as long as there is no interference, which is rarely ever...) as two bolt escapes, but far more slowly; is highly likely to have Cloak break, or to receive damage and CC effects while invisible; and has to deal with Magelight and Detection potions as counters that completely void the effect of the buff.
Speaking from first-hand experience using both, definitely prefer Bolt Escape.
If my Nightblade could give up Cloak for a skill that does what Bolt Escape does, would trade in an instant.
Would not trade my Sorcerer's Bolt Escape for a skill that does what Cloak does though.
Streak is better at getting out of an aoe death trap, but after one or two streaks you are out of mag.... and then you've got to keep crit surge up to keep healing. NB has a number of healing options not available to sorcs AND get a huge buff to stam regen. I've played both and if you think 1 cast of streak is better than one cast of cloak you are cloaking wrong. Dodgeroll---> cloak will beat streak in survivability almost every time.
Invisibility + Speed Potion --> Cloak will also beat Streak on its own most of the time too.
However, dodge roll and potions remain available options to me on my Sorcerer as well.
My Nightblade gets additional Stamina Regen, my Sorcerer gets passive reduction to Stamina skill costs. My Nightblade gets Class healing options, my Sorcerer gets a Class shield and better synergy with Weapon heals.
Am aware of the additional strengths and weaknesses my builds face on each character, and Bolt Escape remains more appealing and reliable to me than Cloak.
30% stam regen on NB vs 5% stam cost reduction on abilities. No benefit to blocking, so no help to the mag sorc other than immovable. Even with my 2hand spec I think I would prefer the 30% stam regen over 5% cost that gets washed out with other stam cost reducers.
Also, I go through a ton of potions on the sorc and get no class bonus to potion effectiveness. I can go through 100+ stam potions in a long day of pvp (and others). Sorcs are lagging behind, I'm not saying they can't be effective, its just a lot easier to be effective on other classes.
Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one0 -
Nala_✭✭✭✭sorcs wont get a buff until like 1.8 when theres none left bcuz they all rerolled dk/nb lmao8
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Cuddler✭✭✭The Sharpened trait had to be fixed, but it's equally true that the fix inadvertently nerfed damage mitigated by Spell Resistance too much, by around 20 to 30% against players. It's as though magic abilities were balanced around the broken trait before.
I got Emperor on Haderus soon after 1.5, and my damage as emperor is slightly lower than before 1.5 as non-emperor, it's as bad as that. I know some people stopped playing because of that, e.g. Ezareth. I am trying to adjust, but I still have not figured out how. I see two options, and none of them is a spell-based DPS build:
1. Go full heals/support. Sorcs still do great as PVP healers with Power Surge.
2. Go full stamina. I've tried Bow and 2H, and they both play really well on Sorc, especially 2H with Brawler + new Rally + Crit Surge healing off Critical Rush.
I am even trying the FOTM Impulse and WoE, both of which I avoided before. We can at least up destro damage a bit with Surge. It does feel though that you now pretty much have to build any DPS spec around weapon abilities or weapon-like class abilities.Edited by Cuddler on November 12, 2014 2:25AM3
