Unable to shield bash interrupt heavy weapon attacks.

Yeager45 · November 2014

First off, I am not sure if this is the correct forum location to put this but since it only happens in Cyrodiil I felt this would be the best place.

So since patch 1.5 has gone live I have noticed we haven't been able to hold block and click the LMB to interrupt a weapons heavy attack, preventing them from being interrupted and having as much magicka or stamina as they want since all they have to do is do heavy attacks and it cant be stopped. I have tested this with a few friends and guild members to make sure it wasn't just something on my side and we ended up with the same result of not being able to stop the other from preforming heavy attacks.

blabafat · November 2014

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

Maulkin · November 2014

Yep, I was going to make a video this evening.

It's not just bashing that doesn't work. I used crushing shock against somebody who was channelling a heavy resto attack against me and it did nothing. Basically, if you're channelling a heavy attack it's like heavy Immovable applied to you. You cannot be hard CCed at all.

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

Yeager45 · November 2014

Honestly I think it hurts us in Legend more than others since we can have 20 to 30 minute fights even before this bug but since we do have that long of fights we were able to find out about it a bit sooner than others.

Maulkin · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Yeager45 · November 2014

Mike, any idea when they video might be out?

crowfl56 · November 2014

LOL pvp is so broken its just laughable. Players exploit everything they can for any advantage they can get, spam impulse, swarm, lethal arrow, and so on. Using lag to gain advantage is still used constantly. I used to be able to block a NB attack, not any more.
I wish I could totally turn off spell effects, don't really need all the flash bang anyway

..

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Crystal Fragments.

Stonefist.

Ambush.

Petrify.

Aspect of Terror.

Silver Shards (if a vamp)

Invasion.

Power Bash.

Etcetera.

None of these work while someone is heavy attacking?

SoulScream · November 2014

This needs a fix!

Maulkin · November 2014

Well my plan was to make one this evening if one of my guildies volunteered to be my guinea pig.

Yeager45 · November 2014

The problem with your "fixes" invisus is yes, they can be CCd by those skills but they can CC break all of those skills and be able to do a heavy attack again and not have a single concern about being CCd again for a few seconds because theyre still CC immune. Yes, they can CC them but no it cant stop them every time like a bash interrupt can do.

Yeager45 · November 2014

Mike, which alliance are you on?

Sypher · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Crystal Fragments.

Stonefist.

Ambush.

Petrify.

Aspect of Terror.

Silver Shards (if a vamp)

Invasion.

Power Bash.

Etcetera.

None of these work while someone is heavy attacking?

CC works to counter pretty much everything, but that shouldn't be the only option because it's very easy to avoid.

I went up against a templar last night who through up immovable and all he did was heavy resto and put up blazing shield. I ended up killing him after a very slow and painful fight. You shouldn't be able to carelessly heavy attack a player with no chance of interruption (assuming the have CC immunity or Immovable up).

This becomes a bigger issue due to the fact that all heavy attacks either restore stamina or magicka.

Let's not remove layers of the PvP experience and make things simpler. Even a simple option to bash a heavy attack makes PvP that much more reactive and adds a layer of "skill?"

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Yeager45 wrote: »

The problem with your "fixes" invisus is yes, they can be CCd by those skills but they can CC break all of those skills and be able to do a heavy attack again and not have a single concern about being CCd again for a few seconds because theyre still CC immune. Yes, they can CC them but no it cant stop them every time like a bash interrupt can do.

You misunderstand. I never said they were a fix, but a different option to try.

I'm not saying that this isn't a bug or something that shouldn't be changed, I'm saying the hyperbole that's being slung is a bit on the strong side. 'Can't stop heavy attacks' is different than 'difficult to stop heavy attacks' and 'fewer options to stop heavy attacks'.

The issue is that 'there are fewer options in my toolbox to stop a player from regaining resources mid fights with heavy attacks' not 'you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped' (to quote another poster).

Maulkin · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Crystal Fragments.

Stonefist.

Ambush.

Petrify.

Aspect of Terror.

Silver Shards (if a vamp)

Invasion.

Power Bash.

Etcetera.

None of these work while someone is heavy attacking?

That's what I'm about to test tonight. I've only tested crushing shock which is supposed to interrupt but did nothing. I will test and make a video.

Yeager45 wrote: »

Mike, which alliance are you on?

I'm AD in EU.

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Crystal Fragments.

Stonefist.

Ambush.

Petrify.

Aspect of Terror.

Silver Shards (if a vamp)

Invasion.

Power Bash.

Etcetera.

None of these work while someone is heavy attacking?

That's what I'm about to test tonight. I've only tested crushing shock which is supposed to interrupt but did nothing. I will test and make a video.

Yeager45 wrote: »

Mike, which alliance are you on?

I'm AD in EU.

If shield bash no longer interrupts, it comes as no surprise that Crushing Shock would not as it's the same mechanic being applied.

Maulkin · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

The bolded part doesn't work. Also, heavy resto attack atm is unblockable, unreflectable, unstoppable and if I recall correctly undodgeable once started (don't quote me on the last part)

Crystal Fragments.

Stonefist.

Ambush.

Petrify.

Aspect of Terror.

Silver Shards (if a vamp)

Invasion.

Power Bash.

Etcetera.

None of these work while someone is heavy attacking?

That's what I'm about to test tonight. I've only tested crushing shock which is supposed to interrupt but did nothing. I will test and make a video.

Yeager45 wrote: »

Mike, which alliance are you on?

I'm AD in EU.

If shield bash no longer interrupts, it comes as no surprise that Crushing Shock would not as it's the same mechanic being applied.

That's a good point yes

Yeager45 · November 2014

Well the reason I made this post was because I had noticed it against a lot of other Legend duelers, where they do a very fine job at doing CC breaks, I was in a 30 minute fight yesterday with a sorc because right after I would CC him, he would break it and he was able to do resto heavy attacks on me again until I was able to CC him again just so he could break it (he ran arena set so CC break was not costing him much at all). We talked afterwards and he told me he never came close to running out of magicka. I even tried to use dark cloak to break his resto attack but it didn't work because he could just redo his heavy attack right when I came back out of stealth.

So while I understand that yes there are fewer ways, the only possible way to do so while they have the CC immunity is gone so it does go back into it is basically impossible to stop them from regening with heavy attacks.

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Yeager45 wrote: »

Well the reason I made this post was because I had noticed it against a lot of other Legend duelers, where they do a very fine job at doing CC breaks, I was in a 30 minute fight yesterday with a sorc because right after I would CC him, he would break it and he was able to do resto heavy attacks on me again until I was able to CC him again just so he could break it (he ran arena set so CC break was not costing him much at all). We talked afterwards and he told me he never came close to running out of magicka. I even tried to use dark cloak to break his resto attack but it didn't work because he could just redo his heavy attack right when I came back out of stealth.

So while I understand that yes there are fewer ways, the only possible way to do so while they have the CC immunity is gone so it does go back into it is basically impossible to stop them from regening with heavy attacks.

Again, incorrect.

You can still break LoS if they have a staff/bow. You can roll away from the melee weapons so that they miss. You can retreating maneuvers and move faster than they can. Drop a cinder storm or caltrops on the ground and retreat from the melee attackers.

I think this is being looked at from the bubble of 'fighting in an open field', which is not what happens the majority of the time in Cyrodiil.

Yeager45 · November 2014

Again, not incorrect, I told you I tried breaking line of sight with dark cloak only to have him redo his heavy attack when I was back in his sight. You can roll yes but they more than likely have a gap closer and will be right back on you and to the best of my knowledge you cannot roll dodge a resto heavy attack once it is hitting you. Yes retreating maneuvers to run away is an option if you are trying to get away but if you are trying to fight them then running away only allows them to regen all of their stats while you are not attacking them. Again, most if not everyone runs some kind of ranged weapon or attack so trying to slow them down will work until they can hit you from a distance.

This is being looked at fighting anywhere because even now in say thorn blade there are no FCs so you will more than likely get ganked.

Also I am not trying to argue, just trying to get you to see my point of view, though you have said it is a bug you are not getting what I am saying by it is next to impossible to stop people with a resto, lightning destroy staff, melee weapons because you have no way to stop them if they have CC immunity, except for LOS which you cannot stop from happening forever.

Sypher · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Yeager45 wrote: »

Well the reason I made this post was because I had noticed it against a lot of other Legend duelers, where they do a very fine job at doing CC breaks, I was in a 30 minute fight yesterday with a sorc because right after I would CC him, he would break it and he was able to do resto heavy attacks on me again until I was able to CC him again just so he could break it (he ran arena set so CC break was not costing him much at all). We talked afterwards and he told me he never came close to running out of magicka. I even tried to use dark cloak to break his resto attack but it didn't work because he could just redo his heavy attack right when I came back out of stealth.

So while I understand that yes there are fewer ways, the only possible way to do so while they have the CC immunity is gone so it does go back into it is basically impossible to stop them from regening with heavy attacks.

Again, incorrect.

You can still break LoS if they have a staff/bow. You can roll away from the melee weapons so that they miss. You can retreating maneuvers and move faster than they can. Drop a cinder storm or caltrops on the ground and retreat from the melee attackers.

I think this is being looked at from the bubble of 'fighting in an open field', which is not what happens the majority of the time in Cyrodiil.

This is true Agrippa but the trade of is imbalanced. (I'm sure you know this but are just giving people ideas as to what they can do for now)

A bash can cost anywhere from 150-300 stamina? (Just guessing here), so you pretty much spend 150-300 stamina or magicka (force shock) to prevent your opponent from gaining anywhere from 150-300 magicka/stamina due to their heavy attacks.

The trade off now isn't worth the result. I'd rather just let my opponent heavy attack then throw down a cinder or retreat to get out of range, dodge, break LOS. At this point, it isn't worth doing that.

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Yeager45 wrote: »

Well the reason I made this post was because I had noticed it against a lot of other Legend duelers, where they do a very fine job at doing CC breaks, I was in a 30 minute fight yesterday with a sorc because right after I would CC him, he would break it and he was able to do resto heavy attacks on me again until I was able to CC him again just so he could break it (he ran arena set so CC break was not costing him much at all). We talked afterwards and he told me he never came close to running out of magicka. I even tried to use dark cloak to break his resto attack but it didn't work because he could just redo his heavy attack right when I came back out of stealth.

So while I understand that yes there are fewer ways, the only possible way to do so while they have the CC immunity is gone so it does go back into it is basically impossible to stop them from regening with heavy attacks.

Again, incorrect.

You can still break LoS if they have a staff/bow. You can roll away from the melee weapons so that they miss. You can retreating maneuvers and move faster than they can. Drop a cinder storm or caltrops on the ground and retreat from the melee attackers.

I think this is being looked at from the bubble of 'fighting in an open field', which is not what happens the majority of the time in Cyrodiil.

This is true Agrippa but the trade of is imbalanced. (I'm sure you know this but are just giving people ideas as to what they can do for now)

A bash can cost anywhere from 150-300 stamina? (Just guessing here), so you pretty much spend 150-300 stamina or magicka (force shock) to prevent your opponent from gaining anywhere from 150-300 magicka/stamina due to their heavy attacks.

The trade off now isn't worth the result. I'd rather just let my opponent heavy attack then throw down a cinder or retreat to get out of range, dodge, break LOS. At this point, it isn't worth doing that.

Sypher's making the correct argument here.

It's more costly and more resource intensive to stop than it used to be, and the tradeoff is not commensurate.

With that, the argument to add it back in gains real weight.

Just saying 'I can't do anything' (as previous posters have) is hyperbole, and does nothing to help establish the issue that is trying to be put across.

With that said, it does sound like this is something that either needs a statement from ZOS (yes/no this is/isn't how we intend the game to be) or a bugfix.

Sypher · December 2014

Zeni... Max..?

Cody · December 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

This needs to be fixed. The fact that you are able to stand there and heavy attack to gain back resources and not be stopped is ridiculous.

There are plenty of ways to stop them.

CC them.

Kill them.

Dodge away from them.

Reflect them or Bolt Escape them if they're using projectiles.

Break LoS to them.

That you can't bash them anymore just removes one thing from your playbook.

c'mon agrippa, you play PvP enough to know how ridiculous it is people can get back resources by just standing there. Being vulnerable to interruption forced people to use it strategically, now players with restoration staves can heavy attack point blank with almost no consequence.

This is ridiculous, and needs to be fixed. Not one player should be able to get back resources by just standing there and holding down attack. Resource managment should be difficult, bot made easier. this applies to all heavy weapon attacks

Cody · December 2014

Venom arrow also no longer stops heavy restos, and bashes dont stop heavy melees.

this needs to be fixed. Y'all have no idea how ridiculous it is to see players with Resto staves hitting me point blank and being able to regan all that mana all because i can no longer interurpt them. Yes I can CC them, but that will only work once every 8 or so seconds(however long the timer is)