DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »

If you die now it really means something not just respawn run into it etc...

Other than having to get on a horse and travel back the long way around to avoid gank squads what does it mean?

@purgation‌ Just some strategies from the top of my head: What about actually preventing enemy reinforcements to get to the battle. This will require communication with other organized groups/guilds. Or cutting off enemy transit lines so they cannot travel to any unflagged keeps under attack? Slowing down enemy movements on the field to interrupt their plans. There's plenty of stuff you can come up with now that travel is actually a required and important part of the Cyrodiil game. Also, people will be more planful on when to charge or when to retreat, because they don't want to ride back and risk losing their objective.

And the "If you are in location A and location B gets flagged, you cannot possibly get there in time to save it" statement is not really true. Only if the attacking force attacks an undefended keep with a huge force, and the defending force has no near transit routes, can this happen. If your alliance has the proper transit lines to port to a keep/outpost close to the flagged keep, there's more than enough you can do to halter their offense. If the proper transit lines are unavailable, and no one is defending the keep, then I don't think you deserve to keep it.

Koensol wrote: »

@purgation‌ Just some strategies from the top of my head: What about actually preventing enemy reinforcements to get to the battle. This will require communication with other organized groups/guilds. Or cutting off enemy transit lines so they cannot travel to any unflagged keeps under attack?
Slowing down enemy movements on the field to interrupt their plans."

Case 1: Transit available -- makes these strategies irrelevant
Case 2: Transit not available -- very difficult to sustain (except at the level of a small gank squad) in enemy territory.

Gank groups are not a strategy, and again -- favors defense, leading to a static game.

Koensol wrote: »

Also, people will be more planful on when to charge or when to retreat, because they don't want to ride back and risk losing their objective.

Your example proves my point -- it rewards hanging back safely as possible and not engaging unless you are sure you can win, creating a more static game overall.

Koensol wrote: »

And the "If you are in location A and location B gets flagged, you cannot possibly get there in time to save it" statement is not really true.. Only if the attacking force attacks an undefended keep with a huge force, and the defending force has no near transit routes, can this happen.

A medium size group with close to full sieges can easily take a keep long before even an organized group can disengage and get there. If there is any option at all, it requires INSTANTLY reacting, suicide at the current fight, rez at the closest keep (notice how transit is still irrelevant) and horse to the keep under attack.

In a few ideal situations, you might be able to pull off a defense, but most likely not.

At any rate, Theory-craft is what it is -- the proof is in the maps -- so far I haven't seen much of anything other than tug of war centered on Bleakers and Sej since the change. Come back when you can point to the dynamic, exciting strategies that are happening somewhere -- because right now they are not.

purgation wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

@purgation‌ Just some strategies from the top of my head: What about actually preventing enemy reinforcements to get to the battle. This will require communication with other organized groups/guilds. Or cutting off enemy transit lines so they cannot travel to any unflagged keeps under attack?
Slowing down enemy movements on the field to interrupt their plans."

Case 1: Transit available -- makes these strategies irrelevant
Case 2: Transit not available -- very difficult to sustain (except at the level of a small gank squad) in enemy territory.

Gank groups are not a strategy, and again -- favors defense, leading to a static game.

Koensol wrote: »

Also, people will be more planful on when to charge or when to retreat, because they don't want to ride back and risk losing their objective.

Your example proves my point -- it rewards hanging back safely as possible and not engaging unless you are sure you can win, creating a more static game overall.

Koensol wrote: »

And the "If you are in location A and location B gets flagged, you cannot possibly get there in time to save it" statement is not really true.. Only if the attacking force attacks an undefended keep with a huge force, and the defending force has no near transit routes, can this happen.

A medium size group with close to full sieges can easily take a keep long before even an organized group can disengage and get there. If there is any option at all, it requires INSTANTLY reacting, suicide at the current fight, rez at the closest keep (notice how transit is still irrelevant) and horse to the keep under attack.

In a few ideal situations, you might be able to pull off a defense, but most likely not.

At any rate, Theory-craft is what it is -- the proof is in the maps -- so far I haven't seen much of anything other than tug of war centered on Bleakers and Sej since the change. Come back when you can point to the dynamic, exciting strategies that are happening somewhere -- because right now they are not.

First of all I think ganking IS a strategy, wether you like the act of doing it or not. And what makes you think it only works for defence? You can also keep additional defenders from reaching the keep via a certain route (mostly chokepoints).

Also, I personally don't see anything wrong with the game being a little bit more slow paced and people thinking a bit more about taking risks. But I understand this is a matter of preference. Danger tends to make people less brainless. I hate brainless.

And the scenario you keep describing again only works when there's no o e whatsoever around in that area. Gotta pop out of the FC era. People are not just hotspotted at those 1/2 keeps anymore. People are actually moving around the map now. Bigger chance there's people who can defend/call inc on an unflagged keep. I've seen it happen way more often than losing a keep and not being able tl do anything.

Also I feel sad for you that the campaign you are in is only focussing on sejanus. Personally I've seen more battle across the map than ever. You also keep asking me to come up with dynamic and exciting strategies. Imo, anything involving travel routes and mapwide movement is dynamic, but you probably will not agree to anything I say. Why don't you tell me how awsome and 'exciting' the strategies were when FCs were in the game?

DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »

In the beginning i directly joined the forums raging around and more.
But now after i played with my guild (we are a decent guild not good not bad but starting to become better) DPM in the PvP area with teamspeak i LOVED IT.
If you die now it really means something not just respawn run into it etc...
Your group members stay closer as well because they dont want to die.

You have much more small skirmish fight etc.
And for the people who dont have a horse/a slow one we just stay together give them retreating manouvre +30% speed and problem is solved.

Perhaps you can change it like this: In Thornblade you cant place camp and in Azura you can place camp just give some campaigns the ability to let camps get place and some not.

I the REMOVING of FORWARDS CAMPS (a happy DC player)

Don't you run in a 24 man squad everytime your online? I rest my case.

Wow lots of discussions here glad so many people actually like the removing just as much as i do.

Yes i do run larger groups leader of a PVP only guild called DPM (daggerfall PvP Masters) with 320+ Members (around 250 active but not kicking inactive yet perhaps some come back you never know )

Its much easier to Ninja keeps now and that is really our speciality.
But i agree soul gems should become cheaper or perhaps be rewarded more with the mails?
I mean i get spammed with every day i play so less but better mails is Better IMO

So you like that you don't have to fight enemies now in order to take a keep? Yeah thats what a keep defense should be about... Fighting Doors and NPCs. PvE, here we come.

DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

So you like that you don't have to fight enemies now in order to take a keep? Yeah thats what a keep defense should be about... Fighting Doors and NPCs. PvE, here we come.

I didn't say that i like to fight at a keep but with these camps you where fighting and then both alliances were putting camps down non stop until some 1 forget it then the other side would win.

Perhaps make the camps more expensive or something but then you will probably get AP grinders...

At least you was getting PvP...

If you really wanted a keep, You would send a squad to take care of the camps and rest kill players and siege.

If you wanted to defend a keep, you would go around them and take the resource/camp then repair from the outside then kill them from the back to the front.

It's simples, It's a matter of how much you wanted the keep. So no one can tell me there was no strategy involved.

Fights could last hours of constant PvP, and gankers, small scale, zergs and trains could all participate and get some sort of PvP.

Armitas wrote: »

DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »

If you die now it really means something not just respawn run into it etc...

Other than having to get on a horse and travel back the long way around to avoid gank squads what does it mean?

I think this is the game you're looking for...?




Those that were too reliant on an instant close spawn (a.k.a. forward camps) will have to adapt and make sure they don't die as much.