deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Not going to bother reading the whole thing. All I read was "to hard" lol.

Which is why no one cares about your opinion. Why even bother posting?

I agree that there is not enough difference now between regular and vet dungeons. When everything is scaling to VR12, they are all vet dungeons. That is all good when you WANT to run a vet dungeon but sometimes you just want something with less of a challenge. I run with a pretty dedicated group of VR12 and VR14- we aren't going to round up PUGs and leave one of our 4 regulars at the front door just to scale dungeons. Before scaling, we could choose any level of difficulty we want by simply going to different zones. Now, it is all VR12. It has killed a lot of the variety in the game.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Not going to bother reading the whole thing. All I read was "to hard" lol.

You're right, people want it changed "to hard" rather than the "near impossible" it is at the moment.

Valymer wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

I have no idea what all the complaining is about. A week ago we could take 4 dps into any of the vet dungeons (including CoH) and faceroll through it with no fear of death. Now we actually have to bring a dedicated healer and one person needs to be able to go tank mode for a couple fights.

The framerate drop in certain rooms is harder to deal with than most of the bosses.

This is one of the best changes they have made to the game, people are actually running the dungeons again.

I find it funny that actually having to do content the can push your character and make you pay attention is what people find boring. For me it's quite the opposite, being v14 and running through a lvl 12 dungeon one-shotting everything is boring.

Also, to the people complaining that its killing stam builds, that is entirely L2P. I run with people sporting stam builds all the time and the difficulty and time to complete doesn't change.

I'm sorry that you actually have to learn to play your class and role properly if you want to group, but it's for everyone's benefit.

Perhaps you should read the thread before you actually post. You might answer your own questions.

I did read the thread, and I didn't ask any questions. It's not impossible or even hard, learn mechanics of the fights and stop being "that guy."

Or, continue to whine until you get your way.

Circuitous wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Any complaints for vet wayrest sewers? I hope not... Sheet was easy as always haha

I'm in it now with a group scaled to V1. Garron the Returned is proving difficult. The ghosts, which supposedly have 2500 HP at VR10, currently have over 5k. Garron himself should have 88k, but has 115k instead.

I can keep up with the heals, but we're not doing enough damage to kill the adds at a reasonable pace with two V1 DPSs (which the dungeon is supposedly scaling to, even though the health seems more like V12).

They scale to a minimal level... I've always thought the vet dungeons started somewhere it the v4-7 range. If the mobs are v1 they're v1... Will say this, my group rand through and I demolished on the dps... Evil hunter+sap essence with a constant VoB running. We had a few deaths here and there... But never a wipe. It's a lot easier than imiril.

Circuitous wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Any complaints for vet wayrest sewers? I hope not... Sheet was easy as always haha

I'm in it now with a group scaled to V1. Garron the Returned is proving difficult. The ghosts, which supposedly have 2500 HP at VR10, currently have over 5k. Garron himself should have 88k, but has 115k instead.

I can keep up with the heals, but we're not doing enough damage to kill the adds at a reasonable pace with two V1 DPSs (which the dungeon is supposedly scaling to, even though the health seems more like V12).

They scale to a minimal level... I've always thought the vet dungeons started somewhere it the v4-7 range. If the mobs are v1 they're v1... Will say this, my group rand through and I demolished on the dps... Evil hunter+sap essence with a constant VoB running. We had a few deaths here and there... But never a wipe. It's a lot easier than imiril.

All the Vet dungeons are now V1-V12, they lost their minimum level (this is the intent, at least. It doesn't seem to be working).

That said, we just killed him off, so a change of strategy was enough to make it winnable even with the increased health.

Congrats... Oh, just so you know you have to pull zombies from the room before the bosses to get the achievement... Good luck :-)

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Scaled to VR9, Garron in Vet Wayrest has about 50% more health than he did at VR10. His adds have nearly tripled in health. Even if it was decided he and the adds needed to be buffed from their default stats, this just seems excessive.

The non-Vet dungeons scaled to VR9 are a little easier than this, but still more difficult than the Vet dungeons from last week (i.e., before the scaling). It is just the less complex boss mechanics that make them that way. Bosses and adds in non-Vet dungeons have extreme amounts of health and hit like trucks just like Vet Wayrest.

We are at the point where my above average, but certainly not top-of-the-line, guild really has no group content available to us. Vet Spindle, Fungal, Banished used to be fairly easy. Vet Darkshade, Elden, Wayrest were a challenge and we would definitely have wipes but still get through. Trials and later stages of Dragonstar Arena were beyond us.

That was fine. There was content below us, content at our level, content above us. We would have liked more of all three (easy, moderate, and difficult), but at least there was something for everybody.

This feels like the hardcore, most skilled players have been given 20+ new dungeons, and I am sure they are ecstatic, but us mere mortals feel like all our group content has been pulled out from under us.

Hahaha I understand man... There certainly is a gap in ability/devotion in which seems to be the issue. Where hardcore players have the time to aquire the skill-knowledge-gear-guild mates to beat these dungeons... And even then it's hard. We're talking SO and vet DSA level players being challenged by the dungeon scaling. That said, even though I fall in that category I agree that the difficulty should adjustable... Simply have normal, vet, and hardcore dungeons... Simply don't allow the gold keep to be achieved unless you do hardcore.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Any complaints for vet wayrest sewers? I hope not... Sheet was easy as always haha

I'm in it now with a group scaled to V1. Garron the Returned is proving difficult. The ghosts, which supposedly have 2500 HP at VR10, currently have over 5k. Garron himself should have 88k, but has 115k instead.

I can keep up with the heals, but we're not doing enough damage to kill the adds at a reasonable pace with two V1 DPSs (which the dungeon is supposedly scaling to, even though the health seems more like V12).

They scale to a minimal level... I've always thought the vet dungeons started somewhere it the v4-7 range. If the mobs are v1 they're v1... Will say this, my group rand through and I demolished on the dps... Evil hunter+sap essence with a constant VoB running. We had a few deaths here and there... But never a wipe. It's a lot easier than imiril.

All the Vet dungeons are now V1-V12, they lost their minimum level (this is the intent, at least. It doesn't seem to be working).

That said, we just killed him off, so a change of strategy was enough to make it winnable even with the increased health.

Congrats... Oh, just so you know you have to pull zombies from the room before the bosses to get the achievement... Good luck :-)

Yup, we knew going into it. Managed the achievement just fine.

Even with the higher health scaling, I'm reluctant to say any dungeon is impossible. Hard as heck, yes, but not impossible. But I do still think there's something awry here.

After three days of running the scaled dungeons - both vet and non vet - as a healer with 2 friends (tank and dps) and picking up another dps to complete the group, I agree with what many people seem to feel about the scaling: It seems a bit random/generic; some bosses are fine, some aren't.

So here's my (quite long and detailed) opinion about how the new scaling affects the game:

Most encounters are fine and have gotten a nice level of (doable) challenge with the scaling. But some boss fights just scale very poorly (Imril comes to mind here) because their mechanics don't work well when the bosses and their adds are scaled up.
Those encounters mostly seem to be the dps race type fights, like Imril, Dark Root or Garron. With the amount of additional health slapped on both bosses and adds, those become a hazard to groups. Damage dealers who previously had a way more than sufficient damage output are suddenly barely able to kill the adds/bosses in time. Those who were average dps before now have no chance at all.
Pretty much the same applies to tanks and healers: With the damage increase and the prolongued fights on those dps races, the pressure on them to survie or make the group survive increases considerably and in the end, a single mistake like a badly timed heal wipes the entire group.

I remember having trouble with dps races back when me and my friends were fresh VRs (the gargoyle boss in spindleclutch comes to mind), but back then, you could just gain a VR or two and get better gear and then come back when the challenge feels more adequate. Now, of course, you can still have a look at your build and see how you can optimize it, but there's only so much you can do.
Right now, pretty much every DK dps seems to be running the crushing shock build already and this considerable increase in difficulty for some bosses will force a lot of people into running such high performance builds instead of being encouraged to come up with something on their own. And I for my part would like to see several viable builds for endgame content, not just one for each class and role.

I realize that this is inherently an issue with the ability balancing and not with the scaling, but increased difficulty serves to make this issue more critical since you'll either be running one of those builds or prepare to get kicked from groups a lot because people want to be able to complete those challenges and get their gold keys - because with the current rewards, the chance of getting one of the new 2-item set shoulder pieces is the only reward that is worthy of the effort you have to put into completing a dungeon right now, imho.

I fear an increase in elitism among players as a consequence, it's a sad truth that there are few people patient enough to take newbies along and deal with extra wipes and the dungeons taking a longer time. Those new peole now lack an easier entry-level challenge and thus have a harder time learning the ropes and catch up with the more experienced players. This will create a huge gap between those doing the endgame content and those who get no access to it simply because they are now forced to play with the challenge level the game shoves down their throat instead of being able to overlevel content and thus picking a challenge level they can deal with while learning the tactics e.g.


TL;DR:
The scaling per se is fine, but some bosses scale poorly and it wouldn't hurt to review those to put them more in line with the overall challenge level.
Also, scaling should be an optional thing so people can pick the challenge level they want.
Some increased rewards for the scaled dungeon versions would be a neat thing, those taking up those challenges should be rewarded after all, but at least give people the chance to do dungeons the way they used to be in case they just want a relaxed, quick run or practice the tactics for the scaled versions and don't care too much about good rewards.

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

I did read the thread, and I didn't ask any questions. It's not impossible or even hard, learn mechanics of the fights and stop being "that guy."

Usually when people start out by saying, "I have no idea why..." they are expecting someone to explain to them why. But if you really did read this entire thread and you still have no idea why people are asking for some adjustments, then you are very dense or a troll, I'm not sure which.

The "L2P" responses best belong in the Alliance War folder, thanks.

I went into a normal dungeon with some VR players, and we couldn't kill the first boss. We were being swarmed by 6 lamias and 4 humanoids as well as the boss. Tempest Island I believe? The pull was simply unreal, and the 1-shot-kill boss mechanic was chewing up my companions.

I went into a Veteran dungeon with a different group, and we made it all the way through and even got the gold key for the special boss kill requirement. The Veteran dungeon actually felt easier in some instances. Fungal Grotto was the area.

Honestly... this seems to be a bug/problem with how the normal dungeons are scaling.

Reexamine where groups are dying in normal dungeons and how many bosses are getting skipped, and then make adjustments to the encounters to make them more "normal mode".

I admit the first group I was with isn't exactly top-calibur/raid-professional group, but that dungeon really shouldn't have been as hard as it was for a normal mode.

Especially when we had it dropped DOWN to VR3 with most of us being VR6-10.

I only read the OP so I am not getting into any thread debate here. I just wanted to add in that I agree. The balance is off. I don't even run veteran dungeons anymore. I used to be able to tank as a nightblade, now I think only a DK even stands a chance.

I think that ZOS needs to keep in mind what their subscriber base is. Not that many players attracted to this kind of MMO are going to be elite, min/max type of players. Yet the game mechanics are forcing us to be. Couple that with the insane grind to VR14 and this game becomes and exercise in futility and regretful decisions and time spent.

I have a couple of big issues with the game.

1) Why are there even classes if all of the best builds are weapon based? My class is for the passive, buff slots? Not very interesting IMO.

2) Why are all classes magicka based? My nightblade should be more of a dual wield and bow with medium armor archtype, but the game forces me to use cloth and a staff if I want to be the best I can be with nightblade skills?

Add in those two and I wonder why there even are classes in this game.

3) When there is a change, of any sort, to game balance why are we not offered 1g per skill and ability respecs? The point refunds are not enough...

4) Is this an MMO or Skyrim co-op? Fiercely guarding things like not allowing class or race changes just seems like someone who is so stubborn in their thinking that they do not realize how to keep a customer happy. It does not hurt the IP, it only provides customer satisfaction and retention. I remember another company that was like this and while their product still makes money, it is not the huge success it could have been. Please ZOS, Bethesda, be open minded about this being an MMO. There are some things that are a standard of the industry that need to be there. Paid class and race changes along with renames are not optional, they are a necessity.

I am just hoping that we get more development on game mechanics and such before new content is released again.

Anyways, back to the OP. I have run most veteran dungeon achievements, I only have the death challenges for Crypt left before this patch, and I cant even successfully clear a VR dungeon anymore... It is definitely broken. It feels like this is scaled to champion system without there being a champion system...

I used to be able to tank as a nightblade, now I think only a DK even stands a chance.

Pfff. NBs tanking is fine, even in vet COA which is significantly harder than the other vet dungeons.

In regards to scaled 4 man 'veteran mode' Dungeons:
(the scaled versions of dungeons that previously has a 'veteran' mode)

Mostly enjoying the new scaled group instanced dungeons.
The added difficulty is generally also nice.

However their scaling mechanic seems to have been too dependant on a generalized procedure, instead of individually tweaking each principal boss encounter, as some bosses and their abilities seems to have had 'spiked' scaling.

Certain attacks are doing dmg way over the top, some previously high Health bosses now have skewed Health pools, and adds on some bosses also have errounously much Health.

Not many bosses have these issues, but a few require some additional tweaking.

Loot/reward/risk is utterly skewed for all the vet mode Dungeons imo.

I get better and more useable loot from my hirelings and by farming Resource nodes in solo pve, then I get from doing challenging 4 man veteran Dungeon encounters.

Needing a vr14 Group with tweaked vr14 epic+ crafted set item gear, to kill certain bosses that at best drop trash vr12 epic gear with undesireable traits and bad set bonuses, is somewhat wierd ; )