PvP Is now the most boring thing I have ever done in my life in a video game.

Lettigall · November 2014

I envy those who like these changes, for me Cyrodiil feels so boring. I spent more time traveling to fights then doing actual fighting. I rather try to find dwemer mofits and farm mats then do pvp.

serenenightmare · November 2014

Draxys wrote: »

also, since red and blue seem to be in a purple mood lately, it is now utterly impossible to defend against two factions at the same time... it was hard before, now it's quite literally impossible.

I don't know about that. Every night, close to end of prime time, red zergs glademist, yellow caps warden or rayles, blue turtles at Glade, and no other swords on the map except at Glade. Red drops 5-10 camps, everything goes BOOOOM, and yellow decided to join the lag fest, adding to more lag!

Not going to lie, it was nice to see red going after yellow last night after we defended Glade for an hour or two.

Subtomik · November 2014

I havent had enough time to make a real judgement on how the changes will end up affecting the overall pvp experience in this game, but if you guys think the lag is gone, you havent been playing attention.

I actually went and did an instance for the first time in over a month last night it got so boring. And the boring parts punctuated by action were so laggy I couldnt do anything. Im one of the ones who will give this more than an ample chance, but I am very, very frustrated.

Vizier · November 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

There is an old saying. Comes from the earliest years on play grounds, football fields and basketball courts..."loser walks."

What compromise are you speaking of? You mean one that lets you WTH blood port anywhere on the map? You never had to run between keeps before? Not even to Lemming into a resource to blood port?...come on.

OMG. You had to run for 5 minutes to get to PvP? The horror. I mean I thought ESO was a First Person Shooter. Isn't it?

5 minutes is nothing when you consider the game dynamic. I've waited much longer in FPS lobby waiting for players to show up. At least now you might have a battle just about anywhere. When your side is doing well you'll fast travel to the front. So sometimes the other alliance players will hoof it to the front.

Ever hear of a Soul Crystal? Your team mates don't carry them? I rezzed a ton of people last night on Thorn and was rezzed several times which kept me from having to rework or re-fight my way through hostile terrain, which I also had to do many times last night. For me, the situation is Way more fun and random. Not so much FPS/Tower Defense mode.

It's an OPEN WORLD pvp zone. It has terrain which should actually be relevant to the strategy and tactics used. AND..now they are. Death means something. The game is WAY better IMO without the instant gratification Blood Porting and Mega Impulse Spam Zerg Porting.

So your opinion is The Truth and the other player's is just trash to be ridiculed?

In a word..Yes. His rant is ridiculous on it's face. His faction at the moment wasn't doing so well so he had to run from the home gate to the first keep. HUH? Did he expect to port to a keep his faction didn't own or was under siege? That restriction has always been in place. He died a couple times and respawned the equivalent of 1 keep over and had to run back? Big Whaa. The consequence of dying might be that he needs to be rezzed or he runs back through possibly enemy filled territory where he could get a fight anywhere between point A and point B, but he acts like the only possible action is at THAT ONE SPOT on the map. lol.

Instant Rez was ruining PvP and trivialized almost every possible challenge and reward in Cyrodiil. So much so, suicide was typically as common a death as being PK'd. If you actually had to travel to a battle on horse folks would hope they got ganked so they could merely rez at FC. AP was horded by cheesers that didn't invest in camps but used the hell out of them. Now I can actually spend AP on me.

Porting Zergs RULED the day and strategy was limited to who could port their Zerg around the fastest and impulse spam the most. Terrain meant NOTHING in an open world PvP environment that is just plain dumb mechanics. May as well play Forge or COD. Keeps fell faster than dry grass in a hurricane and changed hands faster than the weather changed. Becoming emperor was a JOKE. This one change with a couple balance tweaks changed PvP for the better. Do you think I give a rats behind about needing to hoof it for a few minutes from time to time?

People always talking doom and gloom. Even with folks grinding for new skills both EU and NA Thornblade servers have been pop capped as much as ever. Fights ALL OVER the place and pushing back and forth between keeps for hours. It was awesome! Keeps still fell and changed hands but sustained Zerg siegeing was much harder and there were some fantastic defense efforts. I honestly don't know what game those complaining are playing cuz it's nothing like what they are proselytizing. Which brings me back to the opening statement. Yes, their complaints about not being able to get fights and needing to hoof it a bit is like a bleating lamb to my ears, because while it may be an opinion it flies in the face of the reality.

Juraigr · November 2014

k2blader wrote: »

stare for while at their maps waiting for signs of action and deciding if it's worth the run

the run never is cos you will be ganked by 6 nb spamming lethal arrow hitting u you with 3 each before you can say 'wtf'

Nala_ · November 2014

im a nb who has always loved to gank and this patch has still made pvp more boring for me. but maybe its just because half the population quit pvping and theres just not as many ppl to kill during the day

Sharee · November 2014

Redfer wrote: »

Let's have a look at the population since the update which speaks for itself, currently on thornblade the pop is 1 bar across the board, as opposed to the usual 3 bars or barely pop locked I used to see at this time of day. That pretty much speaks for itself.

Thornblade EU right now:

http://imgur.com/ejxZ43B

Redfer · November 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Redfer wrote: »

Let's have a look at the population since the update which speaks for itself, currently on thornblade the pop is 1 bar across the board, as opposed to the usual 3 bars or barely pop locked I used to see at this time of day. That pretty much speaks for itself.

Thornblade EU right now:

http://imgur.com/ejxZ43B

I'm on NA so it might be different because EU was basically allowed to stock up on camps because NA got hit with with the update first.
Also i was talking at about 1 pm, what time is it over in EU right now?

Sharee · November 2014

Redfer wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Redfer wrote: »

Let's have a look at the population since the update which speaks for itself, currently on thornblade the pop is 1 bar across the board, as opposed to the usual 3 bars or barely pop locked I used to see at this time of day. That pretty much speaks for itself.

Thornblade EU right now:

http://imgur.com/ejxZ43B

I'm on NA so it might be different because EU was basically allowed to stock up on camps because NA got hit with with the update first.
Also i was talking at about 1 pm, what time is it over in EU right now?

I only see camps very rarely after patch. I guess even when people are stocked up on them, they are no longer placing them all over the place, and saving them for important things like scroll assaults/defense.

The screenshot was taken at 9pm. But locked campaigns never happened here anytime except primetime anyway. I'd say the population indicators stayed more or less the same throughout the day as they were before last patch .

Joy_Division · November 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

There is an old saying. Comes from the earliest years on play grounds, football fields and basketball courts..."loser walks."

What compromise are you speaking of? You mean one that lets you WTH blood port anywhere on the map? You never had to run between keeps before? Not even to Lemming into a resource to blood port?...come on.

OMG. You had to run for 5 minutes to get to PvP? The horror. I mean I thought ESO was a First Person Shooter. Isn't it?

5 minutes is nothing when you consider the game dynamic. I've waited much longer in FPS lobby waiting for players to show up. At least now you might have a battle just about anywhere. When your side is doing well you'll fast travel to the front. So sometimes the other alliance players will hoof it to the front.

Ever hear of a Soul Crystal? Your team mates don't carry them? I rezzed a ton of people last night on Thorn and was rezzed several times which kept me from having to rework or re-fight my way through hostile terrain, which I also had to do many times last night. For me, the situation is Way more fun and random. Not so much FPS/Tower Defense mode.

It's an OPEN WORLD pvp zone. It has terrain which should actually be relevant to the strategy and tactics used. AND..now they are. Death means something. The game is WAY better IMO without the instant gratification Blood Porting and Mega Impulse Spam Zerg Porting.

So your opinion is The Truth and the other player's is just trash to be ridiculed?

In a word..Yes. His rant is ridiculous on it's face. His faction at the moment wasn't doing so well so he had to run from the home gate to the first keep. HUH? Did he expect to port to a keep his faction didn't own or was under siege? That restriction has always been in place. He died a couple times and respawned the equivalent of 1 keep over and had to run back? Big Whaa. The consequence of dying might be that he needs to be rezzed or he runs back through possibly enemy filled territory where he could get a fight anywhere between point A and point B, but he acts like the only possible action is at THAT ONE SPOT on the map. lol.

Instant Rez was ruining PvP and trivialized almost every possible challenge and reward in Cyrodiil. So much so, suicide was typically as common a death as being PK'd. If you actually had to travel to a battle on horse folks would hope they got ganked so they could merely rez at FC. AP was horded by cheesers that didn't invest in camps but used the hell out of them. Now I can actually spend AP on me.

Porting Zergs RULED the day and strategy was limited to who could port their Zerg around the fastest and impulse spam the most. Terrain meant NOTHING in an open world PvP environment that is just plain dumb mechanics. May as well play Forge or COD. Keeps fell faster than dry grass in a hurricane and changed hands faster than the weather changed. Becoming emperor was a JOKE. This one change with a couple balance tweaks changed PvP for the better. Do you think I give a rats behind about needing to hoof it for a few minutes from time to time?

People always talking doom and gloom. Even with folks grinding for new skills both EU and NA Thornblade servers have been pop capped as much as ever. Fights ALL OVER the place and pushing back and forth between keeps for hours. It was awesome! Keeps still fell and changed hands but sustained Zerg siegeing was much harder and there were some fantastic defense efforts. I honestly don't know what game those complaining are playing cuz it's nothing like what they are proselytizing. Which brings me back to the opening statement. Yes, their complaints about not being able to get fights and needing to hoof it a bit is like a bleating lamb to my ears, because while it may be an opinion it flies in the face of the reality.

You are entitled to your opinion but I'm sorry you do not speak The Truth and your response is more subjective and less conciliatory than the person you ridiculed. He spoke of compromise, you said "loser's walk." Alessia is way more than the one keep away from the starter's gate (which you claimed it to be), and, yes, for a single AD porting into Cyrodiil that is all blue and red except Alessia, there is only one realistic place to go PvP.

They are playing the same game you are. For every "fantastic defense effort" (I participated in one at Aleswell last night) there were keeps that "fell faster than dry grass in a hurricane" (me last night alone at Roe because nobody could get there without an FC). And I will point out there was an AD "zerg" of 50+ that took Roe so fights weren't going on "everywhere." When that blob of yellows showed up at Ash, DC out-lagged them on the back flag - everyone who was there will testify bats were being swarmed, impulsed spammed, and standards dropped yet nothing happened for about 6-7 minutes. This was precisely what people who hate FCs predicted would not happen.

WRX · November 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Actually, it's easier for small groups to wipe large numbers now, since you won't have half of them running back to you before you even wipe their group from their clutch camp 20 ft away from you. Coordinated bomb groups were usually able to do their thing without anyone dying anyways, with the heal stacking.

Now you face a greater penalty from deaths, bit that also means all the people you're wiping wont be coming back anytime soon.

Absolutely not. We have always been an AoE sustain group that does better against larger numbers. But you will lose people for whichever reason.

Before it was more than possible to wipe out entire large groups of 2-3 full raids with a group of 12-16, with a well placed camp. It may take more than one try, it may not. But now with such an insane penalty for death it is simply not worth the risk. You have to just defend the breach, then go back to the inner.

There should be a penalty for using FC. EX) 60-90 second delay from using a FC since the last time you used it. Still provides fast moving game play, and when you make a good push and wipe most of the other faction (on offense or defense) you will have plenty of time to get siege up and establish control of the courtyard. And that's all it took before anyways if you had any amount of skill.

Is your name Wrx ingame? I have a guy in my killcounter addon "top players killed" and someone named Wrx is number 1 on that list.

Id like to see where you are on my list, but Idk who you are.

Anyways, any experienced players knows those things lie, and Id be happy to take some AP from you at any moment.

martinhpb16_ESO · November 2014

aleksandar.miticeb17_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to the age of Legolases, I wonder what's next.

So people have been complaining that there were too many staff wielders and now you complain because bows are now competitive LOL

Gumpnstein · November 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Redfer wrote: »

Let's have a look at the population since the update which speaks for itself, currently on thornblade the pop is 1 bar across the board, as opposed to the usual 3 bars or barely pop locked I used to see at this time of day. That pretty much speaks for itself.

Thornblade EU right now:

http://imgur.com/ejxZ43B

I heard they had prior warning to FC's, so I would assume that they have camps...let's see what happens when they run out.

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

Thorn is now med high high. Never in the history of Thornblade as population been so low at peak time.

Maulkin · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Thorn is now med high high. Never in the history of Thornblade as population been so low at peak time.

Most still farming undaunted achievements 'braxy. It's month long campaign, don't get twitchy so early. That said I'm not enthusiastic about the total obliteration of tents and what it means.

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Thorn is now med high high. Never in the history of Thornblade as population been so low at peak time.

Most still farming undaunted achievements 'braxy. It's month long campaign, don't get twitchy so early. That said I'm not enthusiastic about the total obliteration of tents and what it means.

It was locked an hour ago, this tells me people are getting fed up faster.

rsciw · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Thorn is now med high high. Never in the history of Thornblade as population been so low at peak time.

Most still farming undaunted achievements 'braxy. It's month long campaign, don't get twitchy so early. That said I'm not enthusiastic about the total obliteration of tents and what it means.

yeah, but even when the vr14 level increase was brought in, the days after the patch TB was locked earlier and for longer than what it is now with many not being vr14. Arguably though the new undaunted passives may be a bit more powerful, so more may work on it. Shall see how it goes over the next few days/weeks.

Even so, the fun fights like last Sunday or Monday I think it was, Abraxus and his little group coming down from Alessia farm, we from Alessia, only to meet up on the path up to the farm for I don't know how long won't exist anymore.

LegendaryMage · November 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

aleksandar.miticeb17_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to the age of Legolases, I wonder what's next.

So people have been complaining that there were too many staff wielders and now you complain because bows are now competitive LOL

I don't use either of those two so I could care less. Who said I was complaining? Everyone can play what they want, staff, bow, it's all the same to me...

Mojomonkeyman · November 2014

I love the change. Why did all you people complaining even buy the game? It was never supposed to be instant gratification pvp with brainless suicide bombing.

Addiditonally I dont get what changed compared to the first two months of the game. Smallscale is finally happening again. And no, I`m not a ganker.

What I notice tho, is that everyone complaining used to run with bomb trains or a bomb setup. So maybe, just maybe, it is you who became lazy and spoiled?

PvP was empty before, when large PvE patches happened. Most do either farm undaunted (which is the most stupidly overpowered skillline by the way, unbelievable) or dwemer parts for cash or craft.

Ifthir_ESO · November 2014

not more boring than this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBr7EhL6Jpg

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I love the change. Why did all you people complaining even buy the game? It was never supposed to be instant gratification pvp with brainless suicide bombing.

Addiditonally I dont get what changed compared to the first two months of the game. Smallscale is finally happening again. And no, I`m not a ganker.

What I notice tho, is that everyone complaining used to run with bomb trains or a bomb setup. So maybe, just maybe, it is you who became lazy and spoiled?

PvP was empty before, when large PvE patches happened. Most do either farm undaunted (which is the most stupidly overpowered skillline by the way, unbelievable) or dwemer parts for cash or craft.

Some of us are melee with no escape skills, Your a sorc who just blinks away when you lose 10% health.

Yep you don't get it.

Mojomonkeyman · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I love the change. Why did all you people complaining even buy the game? It was never supposed to be instant gratification pvp with brainless suicide bombing.

Addiditonally I dont get what changed compared to the first two months of the game. Smallscale is finally happening again. And no, I`m not a ganker.

What I notice tho, is that everyone complaining used to run with bomb trains or a bomb setup. So maybe, just maybe, it is you who became lazy and spoiled?

PvP was empty before, when large PvE patches happened. Most do either farm undaunted (which is the most stupidly overpowered skillline by the way, unbelievable) or dwemer parts for cash or craft.

Some of us are melee with no escape skills, Your a sorc who just blinks away when you lose 10% health.

Yep you don't get it.

Oh, now the passive-aggressive class whine? Well, you can tank several people more than me and enjoyed that quite a bit. Please get comfortable with the downsides to facetanking as well, thank you.

You did great in ignoring the fact that we already played that way for two months with great battles & stuff. PvP went only worse since camps got "fixed" months ago.

You people just became spoiled by the "insta-respawn-battleground" mentality that happened to please some of you during the past excessive camp usage and catered to your playstyle (die & dont care).

Keep on whining instead of adapting, great sign of maturity!

Columba · November 2014

Hey. Who are you calling "you people??! "

Mojomonkeyman · November 2014

Columba wrote: »

Hey. Who are you calling "you people??! "

The "people" complaining like it would be the end of the world to not have endless respawn ap fests anymore.

rtc07 · November 2014

I'll preface this by saying that I am a decent player (Heder, Thornblade NA), definitely not the best, definitely not a scrub. I usually play solo or in a group of 2-3 cuz that is all that is left of my 80+ member guild that started this game. Some nights I go on 100+ kill streaks, others I have a crappy 10:1 KD ratio... stuff happens.

a) There are very few small scale fights unless you're out searching for them or luck into one. Lack of FC's and the ability to move easily around the map mean there are fewer fights aka more people at each fight. At any given time there is two, maybe three crossed swords on the map. There is no longer a fight at Brindle, one at Dragonclaw, one at Chalman, one at Roe, one at Alessia and a couple scroll keeps being hit. It's too much work for people to run all the way there with the risk of wiping. So everyone masses up into 2-3 massive fights and the lag is horrendous.

b) There is nothing you can do if you're being hit by both enemy factions. I never have and never will complain about the purple, orange, or whatever alliance. It's part of the game. Take advantage where you can. But tonight DC was in a situation where they got pushed by both AD and EP, and without the ability to churn numbers with FC there is nothing you can do to defend. It 2:1 at both fights.

c) Those of you that say it's like beta or the first few months when FC's were bugged, it's not. 6 months ago there weren't V5 NPC's that hit like trucks. (I personally don't often have a problem with them, but for a casual player with a non-optimized build/gear, they can be difficult)

d) Taking resources is counter-productive. All it does is let the enemy know you are there. They see a resource flip, port or run to the keep, have unlimited rez's while the keep is >50%, while the attacking faction has no way to get back into the figh when they die. A group of 20 could wipe 20 defenders who sally out 5 times and still lose because the defenders keep pouring out.

The solution to that is to ninja keeps, which is not PvP, it's PvDoor. Fun! Either that or have insane coordination where you cap all three resources at the same time then blitz siege. Don't know about you, but I rarely see that high of a level of coordination amongst a big enough group that can do that (from a DC point of view)

e) Everyone fights with ranged cuz no one wants to die. Makes for crazy boring fights. It's just a bunch of people sniping, healing and resto staff attacking. I've seen a 30v30 fight in an open field where no one dies for 2-3 minutes. How is that fun?

The previous version of Cyrodill with essentially unlimited FC's was definitely not optimal. Many good solutions have been proposed on the forums, but wether or not ZOS can code them is another story. However, this new, no FC whatsoever Cyrodill is absolute garbage. It promotes zergs, lag, and alienates casual players who only have a few hours a week to play and want action (I'm not one of them but I see the point of view).

I don't remember who but someone earlier in the thread said they did some PvE for the first time in a month. I did too on Wednesday night. Did a couple undaunted pledges with some pugs, and it was way more fun than this PvP. And this is coming from someone who farmed Fungal Grotto V1-V10, and the only PvE I've done since is quick Craglorn grinds to get from V10-V12 and V12-V14.

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I love the change. Why did all you people complaining even buy the game? It was never supposed to be instant gratification pvp with brainless suicide bombing.

Addiditonally I dont get what changed compared to the first two months of the game. Smallscale is finally happening again. And no, I`m not a ganker.

What I notice tho, is that everyone complaining used to run with bomb trains or a bomb setup. So maybe, just maybe, it is you who became lazy and spoiled?

PvP was empty before, when large PvE patches happened. Most do either farm undaunted (which is the most stupidly overpowered skillline by the way, unbelievable) or dwemer parts for cash or craft.

Some of us are melee with no escape skills, Your a sorc who just blinks away when you lose 10% health.

Yep you don't get it.

Oh, now the passive-aggressive class whine? Well, you can tank several people more than me and enjoyed that quite a bit. Please get comfortable with the downsides to facetanking as well, thank you.

You did great in ignoring the fact that we already played that way for two months with great battles & stuff. PvP went only worse since camps got "fixed" months ago.

You people just became spoiled by the "insta-respawn-battleground" mentality that happened to please some of you during the past excessive camp usage and catered to your playstyle (die & dont care).

Keep on whining instead of adapting, great sign of maturity!

There's no class whine, It's classic gaming classes. Your a sorc which you will most likely be at the back of the groups and pretty much last to die, hell you don't even need to die.

I play as a bomb templar(you can add dk's to this also) We run into groups and bomb them, we push the lines. This obviously results in deaths eventually and a ride back to the battle. So when people start attacking the keep i have 2 options;

1) sit on a siege weapon and be bored as hell
2) heal or range dps which goes against how i play

So when the enemy breach, i have 2 options i can fall back to the inner keep or hold the breach, holding the breach will end up in a death unless i have a lot of allies around me or be bored as hell.

Two types of players get away with this, and it's sorcs and nightblades by generalisation.

No camps destroy a gameplay style, this is what people do not get.

I was with 2 randoms defending a keep vs 15 ish players the other night. I couldn't engage at all, so i waited until i saw a good opportunity. I bombed them and killed 4 then i got taken down, so i'm out of the battle entirely and the others got ressed. So what was the point? Numbers prevail now.

And yesterday night i think it was, i watched 12-18 enemies turtle up next to 2 siege weapons, Usually i'd of just bombed them and i'd of took some down and bought some time for reinforcements to arrive with maybe the chance of defending.

So what we learn from these experiences is;

Superior numbers always win (in the end)
Trains can only be taken down by superior numbers or another train
Melee players will see a lot of scenery
Ranged players (sorcs and archers) who can also get away from a ganking will have a hell of a time.
Cyrodiil is now slower
Less PvP
More lag

I'm struggling to see the good side.

Baphomet · November 2014

The removal of FCs has completely and utterly sucked the intensity and fun out of PvP - unless you have the luxury to be able to play during the peak hours (which still only are a few hours a day).

Doesn't anyone in the executive hallway see any issues with that?

I think even the trainees in the marketing department are pulling their hair out right now.

Itoq · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I'm struggling to see the good side.

... players will see a lot of scenery

Lighting improvements patch 1.x. ZeniMax is way ahead of things to make the game enjoyable for you.

Xexpo · November 2014

rtc07 wrote: »

...
a) There are very few small scale fights unless you're out searching for them or luck into one. Lack of FC's and the ability to move easily around the map mean there are fewer fights aka more people at each fight. At any given time there is two, maybe three crossed swords on the map. There is no longer a fight at Brindle, one at Dragonclaw, one at Chalman, one at Roe, one at Alessia and a couple scroll keeps being hit. It's too much work for people to run all the way there with the risk of wiping. So everyone masses up into 2-3 massive fights and the lag is horrendous.

b) There is nothing you can do if you're being hit by both enemy factions. I never have and never will complain about the purple, orange, or whatever alliance. It's part of the game. Take advantage where you can. But tonight DC was in a situation where they got pushed by both AD and EP, and without the ability to churn numbers with FC there is nothing you can do to defend. It 2:1 at both fights.

c) Those of you that say it's like beta or the first few months when FC's were bugged, it's not. 6 months ago there weren't V5 NPC's that hit like trucks. (I personally don't often have a problem with them, but for a casual player with a non-optimized build/gear, they can be difficult) TO ADD: AoE caps "were not always working correctly" back then either

d) Taking resources is counter-productive. All it does is let the enemy know you are there. They see a resource flip, port or run to the keep, have unlimited rez's while the keep is >50%, while the attacking faction has no way to get back into the figh when they die. A group of 20 could wipe 20 defenders who sally out 5 times and still lose because the defenders keep pouring out.

The solution to that is to ninja keeps, which is not PvP, it's PvDoor. Fun! Either that or have insane coordination where you cap all three resources at the same time then blitz siege. Don't know about you, but I rarely see that high of a level of coordination amongst a big enough group that can do that (from a DC point of view)

e) Everyone fights with ranged cuz no one wants to die. Makes for crazy boring fights. It's just a bunch of people sniping, healing and resto staff attacking. I've seen a 30v30 fight in an open field where no one dies for 2-3 minutes. How is that fun?

The previous version of Cyrodill with essentially unlimited FC's was definitely not optimal. Many good solutions have been proposed on the forums, but wether or not ZOS can code them is another story. However, this new, no FC whatsoever Cyrodill is absolute garbage. It promotes zergs, lag, and alienates casual players who only have a few hours a week to play and want action (I'm not one of them but I see the point of view).

I don't remember who but someone earlier in the thread said they did some PvE for the first time in a month. I did too on Wednesday night. Did a couple undaunted pledges with some pugs, and it was way more fun than this PvP. And this is coming from someone who farmed Fungal Grotto V1-V10, and the only PvE I've done since is quick Craglorn grinds to get from V10-V12 and V12-V14.

Quoted for truth and what I believe to be accurate.
I am seeing all of this from the same perspective.

You can feel it when you are out there ... it's a snooze fest

I don't even worry about getting ganked anymore because apparently there is no one to gank me...
day one: I was killed during travel maybe 10 times in 4 hours
day two: 3-4 times
since then: none.. not a single time
I still ride the same routes with the same small group or no group at all

I am now doing more pve now than pvp as well...

Is there a way we can get back to a compromise?

Can any of the defenders of the change concede there is a better way to go about defeating the troll camps?

Spangla · November 2014

Agree OP - ZZZ this new change is almost enough to make me PVE thats how bad it is xd