1.5 - Impressions from a critical returning player
Daverios
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Recently ran out of games to play and waiting for a couple to release so renewed a sub in order to check out 1.5 a week ago. Got back up speed and checked out 1.5 in last two days.
Crafting writs - Someone had a good idea then somehow it got crapped all over before being implemented. The rewards are complete trash unless you get Nirncrux, congratulations you just wasted your time. The resource maps a a complete joke, takes you longer to find one than than just farming up several regular nodes. May be better after an add on is released and I can find it easily.
Daily Dungeon rewards - and I use the term reward loosly asbthey are an insult. Have you even played a recent game. Give me something to work towards instead of random garbage. The rewards I got from these was honestly insulting. Key rewards and random bronze silver and gold chests to open is a mechanic that should be left to free to play games ... oh wait maybe I am speaking too soon.
For both of these you missed the mark on basic gaming concepts. You either gate your rewards or do random rewards. You DO NOT double them up. Basically you are teaching younger players that gambling is cool, it is not. It is a gimic or a crutch and what you do when you have no original thought process.
Two handed is finally decent. It only took 7 months to get moving on what every player was telling you post launch.
Werewolf - Never tried but apparently working better. Again only 7 months to do what everyone said. Still think it is lame personally to lose all your passive in either form.
Scaling dungeons. Sounds good Ibut can see why other people hate it. However that rule about vet lvl dugeons not giving exp if there is a lvl gap really screws over the healer. I had a v3 v3 v14 v4. Since I was the healer and not doing significant dmg I got no exp and did not see exp bar the whole instance. I was nice and helped em not only finish it but had to explain the mechanics of a couple boss fights. I was the only person to get nothing on exp becaise to Zeni that makes sense
Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Those were my impressions on the things I read and wanted to see. Is it enough to keep me subbed? Not even close. You all still have a long long way to go before you have a product that can compete I will play around some more on this month but probably not much. You are welcome to keep my $15 as you obviously need it a heck of a lot more than I do. I suggest using it to sub yourselves to a real game and see how some of these concepts are actually done correcty.
Edited by Daverios on November 5, 2014 12:21AM Crafting writs - Someone had a good idea then somehow it got crapped all over before being implemented. The rewards are complete trash unless you get Nirncrux, congratulations you just wasted your time. The resource maps a a complete joke, takes you longer to find one than than just farming up several regular nodes. May be better after an add on is released and I can find it easily.
Daily Dungeon rewards - and I use the term reward loosly asbthey are an insult. Have you even played a recent game. Give me something to work towards instead of random garbage. The rewards I got from these was honestly insulting. Key rewards and random bronze silver and gold chests to open is a mechanic that should be left to free to play games ... oh wait maybe I am speaking too soon.
For both of these you missed the mark on basic gaming concepts. You either gate your rewards or do random rewards. You DO NOT double them up. Basically you are teaching younger players that gambling is cool, it is not. It is a gimic or a crutch and what you do when you have no original thought process.
Two handed is finally decent. It only took 7 months to get moving on what every player was telling you post launch.
Werewolf - Never tried but apparently working better. Again only 7 months to do what everyone said. Still think it is lame personally to lose all your passive in either form.
Scaling dungeons. Sounds good Ibut can see why other people hate it. However that rule about vet lvl dugeons not giving exp if there is a lvl gap really screws over the healer. I had a v3 v3 v14 v4. Since I was the healer and not doing significant dmg I got no exp and did not see exp bar the whole instance. I was nice and helped em not only finish it but had to explain the mechanics of a couple boss fights. I was the only person to get nothing on exp becaise to Zeni that makes sense
Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Those were my impressions on the things I read and wanted to see. Is it enough to keep me subbed? Not even close. You all still have a long long way to go before you have a product that can compete I will play around some more on this month but probably not much. You are welcome to keep my $15 as you obviously need it a heck of a lot more than I do. I suggest using it to sub yourselves to a real game and see how some of these concepts are actually done correcty.
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briandivisionb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Never happy.If your group is bigger than 6 members gain 75% damage reduction.
Write this on the back of your box and see how many sales you get!
You won't get any new PvP players until this archaic AoE crap is fixed.
I for one won't resub until:
1.) You fix lag.
2.) You remove AOE caps we voted against.
3.) 12 months have passed (this is how long we've waited for you to 'get with it')[/b]12 -
Kaynehusky✭✭✭briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »Never happy.
While normally I hate whining gamers, I actually agree with Daverios. He's posing some really good points here. A lot of these features, while a great concept, seem kind of hack-jobbed. They could have done a LOT better, especially with rewards. And to not receive a single lick of experience because he was a support role? That's pretty *** lame. I really hope Zenimax reads this, because while harsh, it's kinda true...Edited by Kaynehusky on November 5, 2014 12:29AM13 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The one good thing he said about two-handers was still said in a negative light lol.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
spartanofdarknessSoul ShrivenYou are definitely onto something regarding healers... Zeni and Bethesda hates them. You get crap for exp not only in group dungeons/quests but also in PvP. I hear all the time how much "AP I just got killing this dude or destroying that dude" and yet when I keep five or six of those sorcs and DK's alive I get crap for AP. I've actually stopped using my Templar to heal unless my guild is pretty much begging for it... Off to pulse another vamp...
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TheBucket✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »The one good thing he said about two-handers was still said in a negative light lol.
Exactly. Just someone who is sour and should of never came back if his expectations are never satisfiedWilliam Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)8 -
Uber_Lord✭✭I still enjoy the game but I have to agree with you. It's a complete buggy mess. Seems like ZOS is taking lessons from Bethesda LOL. Skyrim is also a complete buggy mess (doesn't work properly without console commands), same for Fallout and Oblivion.
I believe we will see a decrease in healers. Seems like ZOS prefers DPS and Tanks
But really if thats the case I don't see the point of being a dedicated healer or buffer...2 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭What do you consider to be a real game ? and what games do them correctly in your opinion ?Edited by kevlarto_ESO on November 5, 2014 1:51AM4 -
Leeric✭✭✭✭I think people complain to much about this game as well, but ill have to agree with a part of his post. Just when ZOS gets some game breaking bugs fixed there seems to be a whole new round and another major update.Edited by Leeric on November 5, 2014 1:52AM1 -
Crescent✭✭✭✭And this is why I always favored the best gear coming from crafting. Because at least you can control it.
Then idiots asked for good rewards from dungeons and this is what you get. RNG deciding whether you get something really good, or salvage trash. I don't play videogames to simulate playing the lotto.
Stamina builds are still inferior at AoE than magicka builds. All that got better was bow now doing competitive single target DPS via Snipe. DW/2H are still inferior, not only because they do less damage, but because the encounter designs in this game hate melee.
And BTW Werewolf is still bad. Just get it for the 15% stamina regen if you're a stamina build. It's not worth the ultimate cost, a storm atronach will do better and the stupid werewolf ultimate destroys your toggles so when you transform you lose all your summons, including daedric armor for extra heavy attack damage, so when you come out of werewolf you gotta waste a ton of mana to recast it.
They alctually made the Packleader morph for the werewolf useless by making it a werewolf ally benefit. What a seriously stupid design choice, while also leaving the packleader passive intact as it was useless and niche/situational.Edited by Crescent on November 5, 2014 1:55AM1 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭kevlarto_ESO wrote: »What do you consider to be a real game ? and what games do them correctly in your opinion ?
For Dungeon dalies and dungeon finder WOW.
For crafting dailies EQ2 had a good setup / reward system.
For scaling / instancing. Hmm maybe DDO.
None of these are new concepts and are in fact decades old. There is a golden rule when it comes to development be it a video game or government system. Do not reinvent the wheel. Zenimax just tried and they ended up with square blocks that will not move thier product down the road.
Edited by Daverios on November 5, 2014 2:03AM7 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭If you spend time and money doing something and your expectations are never met then people are going to whine.
Perhaps you lap up whatever games give you, your call. Just don't expect everyone to bend over and provide whatever lubricant is handy.
Edited by jelliedsoup on November 5, 2014 2:49AMwww.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO43 -
diverje✭✭Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
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Daverios✭✭✭✭Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
Not surpising to me. Not even tested I bet, its the Zenimax way.
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lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
Not surpising to me. Not even tested I bet, its the Zenimax way.
It was on the PTS for 3 weeks, but not enough player there to fully test it0 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
Not surpising to me. Not even tested I bet, its the Zenimax way.
It was on the PTS for 3 weeks, but not enough player there to fully test it
You get what you pay for. Paying players should never be expected to test for free. Besides this one should only take 4ppl in house to test at varioud levels. No excuse can be made IMO. Sometimes you just have to admit you effed up.7 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
Not surpising to me. Not even tested I bet, its the Zenimax way.
It was on the PTS for 3 weeks, but not enough player there to fully test it
You get what you pay for. Paying players should never be expected to test for free. Besides this one should only take 4ppl in house to test at varioud levels. No excuse can be made IMO. Sometimes you just have to admit you effed up.
Every major MMO has a PTS so paying players can test for free, it's the industry standard...4 -
diverje✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Every major MMO has a PTS so paying players can test for free, it's the industry standard...
You'd think code quality/assurance would be an industry standard by now too... >_<Edited by diverje on November 5, 2014 2:52AM7 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »Dungeon/Group Finder - Does this even work? Was it tested? Anyone got it to pop? I sat in queue for hours as a DPS/Heals v3 while questing and finally gave up and formed my own in chat. This is the worst bar none the worst dungeon finder ever. In fact all it good for seems to be as an example of how not to make a group finder.
Appears broken to me as well. You'd think that in 4 hours I would have found at least /one/ other person.
Not surpising to me. Not even tested I bet, its the Zenimax way.
It was on the PTS for 3 weeks, but not enough player there to fully test it
You get what you pay for. Paying players should never be expected to test for free. Besides this one should only take 4ppl in house to test at varioud levels. No excuse can be made IMO. Sometimes you just have to admit you effed up.
Every major MMO has a PTS so paying players can test for free, it's the industry standard...
It is also standard to test in house first. Besides after zeni ignored everything every beta tester said who would log onto thier PTS. Not this player.
Agaim you get what you pay for.
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lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Every major MMO has a PTS so paying players can test for free, it's the industry standard...
You'd think code quality/assurance would be an industry standard by now too... >_<
But you can't test things like group finders properly with out a large player base trying it out. And people in other threads ran some tests. The conclusion was it works just fine, but it seems no one is queuing as tank.1 -
bedlom✭✭✭✭✭
✭This game is for fans of elder scrolls and games that try harder to create something special.
Not someone who is bored and looking for something to fill in the month, you're opinion isn't worth much here.3 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »Every major MMO has a PTS so paying players can test for free, it's the industry standard...
You'd think code quality/assurance would be an industry standard by now too... >_<
But you can't test things like group finders properly with out a large player base trying it out. And people in other threads ran some tests. The conclusion was it works just fine, but it seems no one is queuing as tank.
Let me dispell that midinformation for you. Yes you sure as heck can, as a developer with 20 yrs experience I assure you such a thing as writing an automated test for such things is entirely possible. The only thing that would be hard to simulate in a test would be connectivity issues.
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Daverios✭✭✭✭This game is for fans of elder scrolls and games that try harder to create something special.
Not someone who is bored and looking for something to fill in the month, you're opinion isn't worth much here.
Surprise you are right it is not. And as far as Zenimax is concered neither is yours. Trust me. Besides I bet I already had a bigger impact on ytis game than you in the early days just FYI. Check my history.
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Sablemane✭✭✭My 15.00 a month is well spent, so far. I may feel differently next month, but so far the setbacks are not enough to override the fun. I understand people are not satisfied, and when they take the time to provide constructive feedback it is worth a read. Unfortunately, most of the posts on these forums, the complaints at least, are just noise. If you no longer feel the game is worth your time, then by all means move along. Please don't hang around stirring the pot for the rest of us who are looking for useful information or a new perspective.5 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kevlarto_ESO wrote: »What do you consider to be a real game ? and what games do them correctly in your opinion ?
For Dungeon dalies and dungeon finder WOW.
Ähm what?
Do you realize that you need to do dungeon dailys for about a month to get 2 epic items from the vendor?
Heroic dungeons don't even have epic items but rares as drops these days.
Not saying the dungeon finder is bad at WOW but its not like you describe it at all. You farm many weeks there for a single item, the drops are all useless even at LFR.
Instant gratification as you say does not happen at WOW, the game is very popular for long grinds
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Maotti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Scaling dungeons. Sounds good Ibut can see why other people hate it. However that rule about vet lvl dugeons not giving exp if there is a lvl gap really screws over the healer. I had a v3 v3 v14 v4. Since I was the healer and not doing significant dmg I got no exp and did not see exp bar the whole instance. I was nice and helped em not only finish it but had to explain the mechanics of a couple boss fights. I was the only person to get nothing on exp becaise to Zeni that makes sense
.
Not just dungeons, no more going to Stonefalls or any area lower then VR9 as Vet14 to help a friend with anything for me. As this is something i always and gladly did.
Now i'll just be viewed as a griefer.
This rule is ok in normal levelling zones, but it has no place in veteran content!Edited by Maotti on November 5, 2014 5:01AMPC EU2 -
zbtiqua✭✭✭Amazing post by OP, practically read my mindOfficer of Da Funk (EP NA)
DSA Vet Fastest Time NA (83 mins)
World 1st AA HM
World 3rd Hel Ra HM0 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭Agree with most of your post OP. Zos has some really great ideas to improve the game but the implementation is just really poorly thought out and the game becomes even harder to enjoy. Not to mention the buggy state of each patch. I took a couple of months of after my first three month sub. I doubt I'll try again until the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood is released. Although I don't trust Zos not to botch those releases either.3 -
Leeric✭✭✭✭I like what ZOS is trying to do, I just don't like how they are going about making those changes.1
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EsORising✭✭✭update 5 worries me.. they couldnt even deliver what they promised for this update what makes us think the bug fixes and championship is coming out anytime in 2015? There is a long way to go but im afraid ZoS will lose a lot of subscribers in the process because they come out with this grand scheme they can not deliver anytime sooni instead of fixing what people hated. The community is going to thin out in the next couple of months when they realize the carrot on front of them is held up by a string that we can never reach.
Championship is not coming out anytime soon. For all of you that thinks this will come out in update 6 your crazy. They added chat bubbles for god sakes..thats the only thing they did that wasn't buggy and they couldn't deliver the main updates for update 5. The reputation is dying quick and it might not be repairable.
For all of you that say you don't care about the drama and your having fun right now; the more hate videos that keep coming out on youtube about this game will damage the reputation of eso and people will just move on to the next mmo or never give it a chance. ALthough you will have a fixed game about 1 yr from now there will be no one on the server and the reputation will be so badly damaged people will disregard it as they did with many great mmo's that could of been great.
So you may see this post as complaning from a bitter player but it's a person that paid money for much higher expectation then a beta form of a lesser Elder Scroll experience. The frustrating part is most of the haters love the game but hate the fact ZoS can't deliver what they say they will. This game still has a beta feel with npcs walking in the floor, sets not working right, skills not working right etc..Having said that ZoS wants to redo the whole combat system and add more VR levels instead of making the small changes everyone wanted like balance, more pvp and getting rid of veteran system. This translates to me as "hey we can't fix the bugs and figure out how to balance out pvp but were going to do a complete overhaul of the game", which doesn't make any sense.Edited by EsORising on November 5, 2014 7:19AM7 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭update 5 worries me.. they couldnt even deliver what they promised for this update what makes us think the bug fixes and championship is coming out anytime in 2015? There is a long way to go but im afraid ZoS will lose a lot of subscribers in the process because they come out with this grand scheme they can not deliver anytime sooni instead of fixing what people hated. The community is going to thin out in the next couple of months when they realize the carrot on front of them is held up by a string that we can never reach.
Championship is not coming out anytime soon. For all of you that thinks this will come out in update 6 your crazy. They added chat bubbles for god sakes..thats the only thing they did that wasn't buggy and they couldn't deliver the main updates for update 5. The reputation is dying quick and it might not be repairable.
For all of you that say you don't care about the drama and your having fun right now; the more hate videos that keep coming out on youtube about this game will damage the reputation of eso and people will just move on to the next mmo or never give it a chance. ALthough you will have a fixed game about 1 yr from now there will be no one on the server and the reputation will be so badly damaged people will disregard it as they did with many great mmo's that could of been great.
So you may see this post as complaning from a bitter player but it's a person that paid money for much higher expectation then a beta form of a lesser Elder Scroll experience. The frustrating part is most of the haters love the game but hate the fact ZoS can't deliver what they say they will. This game still has a beta feel with npcs walking in the floor, sets not working right, skills not working right etc..Having said that ZoS wants to redo the whole combat system and add more VR levels instead of making the small changes everyone wanted like balance, more pvp and getting rid of veteran system. This translates to me as "hey we can't fix the bugs and figure out how to balance out pvp but were going to do a complete overhaul of the game", which doesn't make any sense.
There was this thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133894/close-the-game-give-refund-relaunch-later/p1 from a while ago and whilst I agreed with what the OP was trying to say I was still on the fence about the game at the time. There are still some good opinions on both sides in the thread. Anyways as it stands now with the work there is to polish the game to a level that actually warrants a $15 per month sub, I'm tending to think they should have closed the game back before they could damage it's reputation further.
Only time will tell if the gaming community accepts what Zos is doing with ESO and I have no crystal ball. But for me and the friends I joined with( I'm the last of them still subbed) the quality and design is bordering absurd.9