How in the world is Craglorn remotely a good idea??

Johnny_NO_skillz · October 2014

I know MMOs are not for single players and even though this game has a lot of solo content, generally MMOs cater to the group before the individual - that's fine, it's why I play MMOs in the first place... But how is making a required zone to progress in level group exclusive a good idea?

What about after 2 or 3 years when there is only a niche audience playing, do you really think we can find a group of 3 other players who are willing to
Stop what they're doing in they're progression in craglorn just to help me?

I'm really confused on how this zone works.

It seems like down the line craglorn will be a dead end for many players who aren't lucky enough to be in active guilds or have irl who play eso with them.

And beyond that, does that mean every zone moving forward will be group required? And if it's not, how are solo players expected to get past craglorn?

Might be a dead horse but I've been out for a few months.

TRIP233 · October 2014

What you are asking about is what is happening currently. The only thing Craglorn is used for is: Grinding. No one quests there and if they do it's really hard to find a group to do the quests. It doesn't matter if you're in an active guild or not.

What about if I wanted to create a new character and quest it in Craglorn, or in future zones... how will I find a group if I'm already having trouble finding a group to quest.

Johnny_NO_skillz · October 2014

Exactly. I hope they make it solo across the board.

TRIP233 · October 2014

They wont, the devs already said they want us to group and to have fun grouping. But they need to find a way to deal with this.. Maybe give more xp or vp to those that quest.

Example: In Cyrodiil you get less AP for killing an enemy player that has already died from another player. So, maybe, they could apply that same tactic to bosses and fast re-spawn locations. In essence making Grinding a thing of the past. Reward questing and punish grinding... but don't punish farming. Like say, if someone is wanting to farm in a vet zone that would be a grind spot because of fast re-spawn times, let us at least loot but give us no xp for killing the mobs over and over.

At least in the Vet zones have it this way.. I mean, people still want to reach 50 to get to end game stuff as fast as they can. After grinding to 50 they can go back to questing and fly though the game if someone really wanted to.

With daily quests that are repeatable in Craglorn and in Cyrodiil, and vet dungeons and with the new Undaunted quests coming out, there should be enough quests in the game for us to do and not get board. And keep this same model going as more and more quests and zones are released.

Syntse · October 2014

Craglorn is a flop having quest lines requiring grouping. It will work for groups of people that do play together and quest together. However even that is fail because of the phasing of quests. Best would have been just to have it as area with tough bosses and delves/dungeons that require grouping without any quest line.

People that group to questing are quite rare nowdays. Group of 2 maybe... group of 4 just not working. Even now if you are not in big guild it is hard to find group of 4 to do group dungeon.

TRIP233 · October 2014

Even if you're in a big guild it's still hard to find a group of 4 to quest with. Mostly because everyone in the group has to be on the same part of the quest.. Unless it's a daily then they can just start it from the beginning and not have to worry about phasing.

They should really make the Main Quest of Craglorn solo-able that way no one has to deal with having to find a group that they may or may not be able to find. And leave the daily's as Group quests. And get ride of them boxes. Every time I open one of them I get nothing. I don't want to do a quest for no rewards. God. That just annoys me. I have a collection of them in my inventory that I just don't want to open, in fear of getting nothing.

Merlin13KAGL · October 2014

TRIP233 wrote: »

Example: In Cyrodiil you get less AP for killing an enemy player that has already died from another player.

@TRIP233 , less AP's for making the player more dead-er? Or more AP's from someone that has never yet suffered a player defeat?

Not really trying to be difficult, but also not quite following what you mean?

@Johnny_NO_skillz‌ , Craglorn content is about as far from new player content as you can get. Are you concerned that new players coming in will not be able to complete (group finding, etc) once they get there?

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Craglorn is used for grinding, good luck finding a group for quests. Took me months to finally finish all the main zone quests before Upper Crag launched, I haven't even bothered with the new ones.

TRIP233 · October 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

TRIP233 wrote: »

Example: In Cyrodiil you get less AP for killing an enemy player that has already died from another player.

@TRIP233 , less AP's for making the player more dead-er? Or more AP's from someone that has never yet suffered a player defeat?

Not really trying to be difficult, but also not quite following what you mean?

@Johnny_NO_skillz‌ , Craglorn content is about as far from new player content as you can get. Are you concerned that new players coming in will not be able to complete (group finding, etc) once they get there?

Yeah.. when people where farming emp they would get other people from one of the other alliances and meet them at a farm. They would throw themselves at the NPCs to give the guy that was going for emp AP. At a a certent point they would become worthless and the guy going for emp would get no AP. That is what I'm talking about. Make the bosses the same way: worthless.

Nestor · October 2014

TRIP233 wrote: »

They wont, the devs already said they want us to group and to have fun grouping. But they need to find a way to deal with this..

Well, I want a million dollars too, but the reality is no one is going to give it to me. The devs may have intended for us to group, but the reality is people want to do this solo. There are many reasons for this that have been discussed all over the boards as to why people have to play solo or prefer to play solo.

So, who is more important? The Devs or the Paying Customers?

Johnny_NO_skillz · October 2014

What people don't understand is no one want to "SOLO" craglorn!!!! But the alternative is wait a whole hour or so to look for a group of FOUR PEOPLE who might be on different quests to be able to play.

On top of that how many groups of 4 are all willing to play for the same time, meet up again, and are all skillful enough to do it anyway.

I love ESO but this craglorn stuff is horrendous.

End game dungeons and possibly raids (one day) should be group required. Not the f'in grind to max level. That's full ***

Nestor · October 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

What people don't understand is no one want to "SOLO" craglorn!!!! But the alternative is wait a whole hour or so to look for a group of FOUR PEOPLE who might be on different quests to be able to play.

That's one of the reasons why people have to play solo...

The other issue is, you can't group with anyone for some (most?) of the quests if they have already done the quest. So, that eliminates a lot of people who would probably have grouped with you.

Personally, I don't mind repeating a quest's content to help someone out with the combat or whatever. But, most times I can't help someone because of the quest phasing and being on the same instance as them just because I did the quest before.

Audigy · November 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

On top of that how many groups of 4 are all willing to play for the same time, meet up again, and are all skillful enough to do it anyway.

Now multiply this with 3 and you have trials.

MMO games always have group content, that's why they are MMOs. You might not like it and hey, I have better things to do myself than asking 11 others so that we can do a trial but this doesn't change the fact that MMOs have such content.

ZO keeps adding dungeons and trials and I am sure they will keep adding group zones as well.

What they could tweak is how grouping works, maybe make Trials more LFG friendly, ban addons that exclude weaker players ... but the content itself will never go away. Its a part of an MMO whether you like it or not, you know what you were getting into when you bought the game so its not fair to demand that group content doesn't exist anymore.

Gyudan · November 2014

Audigy wrote: »

What they could tweak is how grouping works, maybe make Trials more LFG friendly, ban addons that exclude weaker players ... but the content itself will never go away. Its a part of an MMO whether you like it or not, you know what you were getting into when you bought the game so its not fair to demand that group content doesn't exist anymore.

Trials aren't hard but they aren't a walk in the park either. If a group is entirely composed of those "weaker players" it won't succeed. If weaker players join a stronger group without any desire to get "better", they will drag the group down.
Before I started doing trials my skill rotations and dps were bad, now they're sowewhat good. If you're not willing to improve, I hope never to see you in my groups.

TRIP233 · November 2014

Guys.. this whole thread isn't about hating group content. It's about putting the Main Quest as solo while the rest of it is done in groups. For the Longevity of Craglorn. Think about it; In 6 months after new zones come out and a new player is finally ready to do Craglorn, how will he find a group when no one is in that zone just like how all the other vet zones are.

Solo the main quest, group us with the daily's and the trials. Not rocket science.

Audigy · November 2014

TRIP233 wrote: »

Guys.. this whole thread isn't about hating group content. It's about putting the Main Quest as solo while the rest of it is done in groups. For the Longevity of Craglorn. Think about it; In 6 months after new zones come out and a new player is finally ready to do Craglorn, how will he find a group when no one is in that zone just like how all the other vet zones are.

Solo the main quest, group us with the daily's and the trials. Not rocket science.

This wont help to be honest.

If you are done with Craglorn then the next outdated content will be the dungeon and trial content.

So that you wont be able to advance in the story there either.

Lets look at other MMOs, the content that is not current just isn't played. I know its annoying, especially if the content is group based (I still have quests that are years old in some MMOs)

They can make Craglorn solo but this isn't going to change the situation but will delay it.

What ZO has to do is changing the dynamics in the game so that content scales up or down to the amount of players in the zone. Even if someone is all alone he should be able to do a dungeon or trial just like a 30 men guild should be able to quest in Craglorn while still having a decent challenge.